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Metaknight should be banned

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thumbswayup

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I believe the first healthy step towards making Brawl a more competitive (and less annoying) game is to completely ban Metaknight from tournaments.

The character is just broken beyond belief. His attacks all have virtually no lag and he cannot be punished for spamming moves such as tornado, up b, d smash, d tilt. All his other moves are impossible to punish if the Metaknight knows what he's doing and spaces/camps correctly.

I'm not saying it's not possible to actually beat a Metknight using another character, it's just very hard, especially if you aren't using Snake. Some argue that he counters MK, but what about the other characters in the game? What if you don't want to use Snake?

Broken characters have been banned in other competitive fighters because they have an unfair, and almost unreal, advantage over the rest of the cast. So why don't we all step up and remove this abomination to smash? High level Brawl players (who will not be named) have already shown MK's potential for ledge camping/stalling. Luigi's Mansion is banned in MD/VA because a certain MK player ran the timer on three different people on that stage at Critical Hit 3.

There is nothing you can do against a MK who stalls the match. You can't approach him without being severly punished (because Brawl's mechanics give an advantage to the defender) and you can't just sit there as time runs out and you lose the match. You also can't spam projectiles against a ledge camper, MK is ridiculous on the ledge with his up b.

Mk's up b is also the most broken recovery in the game. You cannot successfully gimp a good MK. Ever try to gimp M2k when he's off the stage? He'll up b the moment you get near him and you'll fly in the opposite direction and die. The up kills at ridiculously low percents. If he catches you with one of those off the stage you're pretty much dead.

People argue that Snake is even more broken and should be banned as well. Snakes don't really give me problems, maybe it's because I main Diddy. Against Snake you just need to gimp him at every chance you get and shield A LOT. He's also very slow, I'd like to see a Snake run away for 7 minutes and win. It won't happen.

I'm certain there are others who feel this way, we need to voice our opinions to make this game a more fair and balanced competitive fighter. Brawl will never be balanced, but this will begin to level the playing field.
 

Plairnkk

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Theres already a thread about this in the backroom, nub.

But yea basically MK cant be banned because where do you see MK's across the country swiping tournaments? Only m2k wins tournies with MK, and thats because its m2k. Hell, Wario has been winning more tournaments than MK.

Edge stalling is annoying but TONS of chars can do it, not just MK. Remember my Pika thumbs? I can do the same thing with multiple characters, pika, rob, dk, etc. It's not just MK. Brawl is stupid as a whole.

However, you just have to be smart to get around it. Azen had no issues at all getting around edgecamp, so no johns.

Is Metaknight the best character? Yes, he is. Is he bannable? Hell no. Just like in melee fox/marth ***** everyone else and the best players ALWAYS used those 2 characters, MK ***** in brawl. Except for the fact that MK players havent been winning every single tournament.

MK is at the most as broken as fox/marth were in melee, but probably even less so. Why is it nobody ever tried to ban fox or marth in me;ee, then?
 

thumbswayup

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But in Melee, Falco beat Fox slightly and Sheik beat Marth. Fox beat Sheik slightly and so did Falco (i think, or they went even with her). Falcon beat Marth also.

It just seems that Melee is more balanced because there was always two or characters to balance out the best ones. I mean, who counters Metaknight?! Most say Snake, but I don't believe that at all. MK can gimp him far too easily.
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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I hate MK.

but i don't even remotely want to see him banned. and the idea of it is ridiculous.

infinite stalling itself should be banned, to that i'll agree.

as to how that'd be banned, idk. I'm not the entire smash community, nor will I pretend to be.

But MK isn't that hard to get around.
 

ADHD

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Thumbswayup, if you main diddy, snake should be harder if you know what you're doing. I do hate metaknight, but I don't know if hes broken enough.

God get real people he really is naturally too much of a beast, but I don't think we should ban him.
 

JCaesar

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Thumbs, you should know better than to post this here, nothing in General Brawl Discussion gets taken seriously. Nonetheless I will add my 2 cents. Hopefully non-tournament players won't spam up this thread too much. Ha, yeah right.

I completely agree, MK should be banned forever and ever amen. It would make a large # of stages and characters tourney viable, which right now have no chance. This isn't a good argument in itself, as other fighting games commonly only have 4 or 5 tourney viable characters, but Brawl has the potential to have a dozen or more because, apart from MK, it's fairly well balanced. It would add an immense amount of depth to a game that is almost to the point of having every championship match at a major tournament be a MK ditto.

Also, Snake is nowhere near as broken as MK. He's **** good, sure, but he has something that MK doesn't have: bad matchups/stages. It is also impossible for Snake to stall out a match, because he sucks on the ledge. And ideally, if we can prevent stalling from being the dominant tactic in high-level matches, we should do whatever it takes, short of a mushy, unenforceable ban of the tactic. I think this ledge-stalling is probably the biggest problem facing the tournament community right now.

In conclusion, ledge-stalling = bad, and MK = Akuma.
 

Kirbichu

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Oh..My...God

You've got to be kidding me! You can't just ban a character because they're good! How about actually playing as Meta Knight, and learn to do all of these techniques that you say make him "broken." Then try making this thread again. But, try Character Discussion next time.
 

JCav

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Why is it nobody ever tried to ban fox or marth in me;ee, then?[/QUOTE]

this is exactly why it cant happen. i mean i hate fighting a good mk but characters arent like stages, they cant be banned
 

JCaesar

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this is exactly why it cant happen. i mean i hate fighting a good mk but characters arent like stages, they cant be banned
Why not? Other fighting games have done it. Akuma is the common example of a character that was so broken that it had to be banned from tournaments.
 

thumbswayup

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Thumbswayup, if you main diddy, snake should be harder if you know what you're doing. I do hate metaknight, but I don't know if hes broken enough.

God get real people he really is naturally too much of a beast, but I don't think we should ban him.
I just banana combo Snake off the edge and then gimp him. Diddy ***** Snake off the stage, and since he's so heavy the banana combos are more effective on him and getting him to the edge is not a problem. I've beaten very good Snakes in my area, but I can't ever beat great MKs. I've come close, but I just can't win. Diddy can't gimp MK (unless the MK is ******** and jumps into my d air), not to mention that MK ***** Diddy of the stage. All he has to do is d air Diddy while he's charging his barrels and he's dead.
 

ADHD

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Are the only true counters against Meta Knight Snake and Donkey Kong?

No............................................. Thats a fib metaknight players came up to suggest they have a normal character. lulz an ACTUALLY GOOD DK will tell you that MK is one of their hardest matchups. Snake is well, he doesn't have much on him besides KO power, same with DK.
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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Why not? Other fighting games have done it. Akuma is the common example of a character that was so broken that it had to be banned from tournaments.
Because brawl isn't the average fighting game.

The people who complain about any characters being broken are players that are so terrible that they have to come up with some reasoning outside of their control to compensate with how bad they truly are.

EDIT: and will some mod please come in, give a simple, yet informative answer, and lock this thing...
 

ADHD

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Because brawl isn't the average fighting game.

The people who complain about any characters being broken are players that are so terrible that they have to come up with some reasoning outside of their control to compensate with how bad they truly are.
Good job, you really sum it up. Metaknight is totally a normal character who you can beat with captain falcon if you have enough skill. I am so horribly bad, that this is a very tough matchup for me.

He is the best in the game, because of the stuff he has. The stuff he has can cover over the skill he needs. Of course someone will argue with this, but it's absolutely true with the characters in brawl. Tiers are EVERYTHING now.
 

EC_Joey

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Because brawl isn't the average fighting game.

The people who complain about any characters being broken are players that are so terrible that they have to come up with some reasoning outside of their control to compensate with how bad they truly are.

EDIT: and will some mod please come in, give a simple, yet informative answer, and lock this thing...
Is this another way of saying tires don exits?
 

CO18

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Theyre not even really counters basically just even matchups.
He has 2 even matchups and every other mathcup is heavily in favor of MK.
 

JCaesar

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Haha, yes, because Nintendo couldn't possibly make one character much better than the others, since they've obviously put so much effort into making this a competitive, balanced tournament game, even more balanced than games like Street Fighter which are designed to be competitive :laugh:

Please

Edit: Also, MK has no bad or even matchups. At high levels MK ***** Snake.
 

demonpanther

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Pikachu can counter MK pretty well. His upsmash can go through the tornado or stop it. His thunder jolt spam can keep him at bay and thunder can kill metaknight easily cause he is light. Pikachu also has some great aerials for racking damage and a great approach with QAC.
 

da K.I.D.

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Why is it nobody ever tried to ban fox or marth in me;ee, then?
this is exactly why it cant happen. i mean i hate fighting a good mk but characters arent like stages, they cant be banned[/QUOTE]

as good as fox, marth, shiek, and falco were... saying that nobody ever tried to ban them is completely redonkculous. there were many many attempt from many different place to ban all of these, just because it never came to fruitition doesnt mean it never happened.

now i was planning to come in here and flame the hell out of you but you brought up some interesting points so now i will actually put in the effort to comment seriously

the OP made alot of smart points, but he kinda shott himself in the footby saying 2 things

1. snake>MK but MK=bann because not everyone wants to play snake.
so your saying that MK should be banned because not everyone should have to play the one character that can beat him. therefore you are contradicting yourself by saying that MK is unbeatble, but he can be beat by snake. so if you can admit that MK can be beat, he doesnt need ot be banned.

2. MK> the OP> snake.
you just said that MK is broken b/c he ***** you, but snake shouldnt be banned because you dont have a problem beating him. tht just sounds like youre mad at getting beat by MK and you kinda made this thread out of butthurt feelings...
as broken as snake is, if you can beat him, you can beat MK as well. youre just not trying hard enough. im sorry but thats what i see. practice more and pick up a secondary
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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This is getting ridiculous.

Honestly, where are the mods?

Meta Knight should not be banned. He can be beaten. Maybe not by 80% of the people in this thread, but he can be.

No one can just get better, everyone has to cry and whine about something to make themselves feel better.
 

Baky

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This is getting ridiculous.

Honestly, where are the mods?

Meta Knight should not be banned. He can be beaten. Maybe not by 80% of the people in this thread, but he can be.

No one can just get better, everyone has to cry and whine about something to make themselves feel better.
MK can be beaten.

Yet with most characters, its beyond difficult.

With the few characters that almost fight him evenly, its still a hard matchup.

And...if you don't like this thread **** or gtfo. Quit complaining.
 

MarKO X

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Vid please....

MK is good, but I have never seen a complete **** from MK. I even saw Azen's Lucario beat M2K's Metaknight...

If someone can show me videos (notice: plural) of MK rapage, MK 3-stocks and 4-stocks, MK comebacks, and other stuff that could show me that MK is really that broken, then maybe he should be banned.
 

JustKindaBoredUKno

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Quit complaining? In a thread titled "MetaKnight should be banned?"

you're kidding, right?

The smash community really needs to quit screaming "BROKEN! BAN! BAN!" and just play the game.
 

QNZ_RAFA

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Why is it nobody ever tried to ban fox or marth in me;ee, then?
this is exactly why it cant happen. i mean i hate fighting a good mk but characters arent like stages, they cant be banned[/QUOTE]

UMMM...that's easy. that's becuz in melee they had, what my friends like to call THE FANTASTIC FOUR. FOX, MARTH, SHEIK AND FALCO. ALL of them had the potential to win a tournament and had the potential to take ne1 of those characters out. now it would seem OBSURD to ban 4 CHARACTERS in a game... so they left them all in. but evry time u went to tournament what did you see? you so those same 4 characters ONLY. (w/ the exception of a few samus' , peaches and captains)

This thread has my support. The character should be banned and I have many reasons to support it. who's that kid that posted 2nd? Plairnkk... see Im pretty sure that kid went to CH3 and he picked MK. in fact he's the one that camped on Luigi's mansion so bad that they banned it. Your going to get alot of those on this thread. Those that have been winning a whole lot w/ that character and refuse to believe that they're broken so they can keep winning. PPL that main MK like PLAIRNKK are all going to post on this thread to protect their PRIDE...they DON'T WANT to believe that it takes no skill to play as MK. cuz it doesnt.

The game has only been out for 5 months and just recently, maybe a month ago, ppl have realized that MK is the most broken character. for those ppl that keep arguing that SNAKE is the most broken, they must have no idea how to gimp this man. ITS SO INCREDIBLY EASY PLUS you have alot of options. off the top of my head I can already name 6 characters that have a really good advantage over SNAKE. PPL keep saying this character will never be banned. You WILL start to see MK's potential when they start sweeping all tournaments. o and say there is one tournament that MK doesnt win in...i promise you 8 out of the top 10 will have mained him.

did ne1 see the H2YL tier list? Chillen dude, Mew2King and sum kid name TRAVIS help put it together. they have their own TIER for metaknight called GOD TIER. They hit the nail right on the head w/ that one. MEW2KING!! a METAKNIGHT PLAYER says MK is GOD TIER. this game is entirely based on counter picks. IS IT FAIR THAT THE 2ND BEST CHARACTER, SNAKE, HAS LIKE 6 TO 7 COUTNERS, BUT METAKNIGHT HAS ONLY 2 (DK, SNAKE) o and DK and Snake are LABELED MK counters, but i promise you, they are no counter for MK. NO way... that match is still extremely hard for those ppl. they call them counters cuz they have the best chance out of all the characters to beating MK.

So all you MK players can continue to debate that you dont want your character to get banned cuz you dont wanna go back to losing cuz you were probably never good in the game or in melee. I just hope this community is man enuff to ban a character and possibly save the competitive scene.
 

QNZ_RAFA

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Quit complaining? In a thread titled "MetaKnight should be banned?"

you're kidding, right?

The smash community really needs to quit screaming "BROKEN! BAN! BAN!" and just play the game.
OMG!! YO KID STFU!!! your so annoying. just allow ppl to debate this topic and leave it alone if you dont like it. what are you like 5?? I BET YOU ANYTHING YOU MAIN MK which is why your so upset about having this thread up. i met this kid in tournament...who is known as a very good player. always places top 5 in every weekly here in ny. I PLAYED ALL HIS OTHER CHARACTERS. ALL OF THEM. they all lost to all my other characters. including my ganon. THIS CHARACTER IS TRASH! NE1 WHO PICKS HIM AND LOSES W/ HIM SHOULD QUIT GAMES ALTOGETHER CUZ YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO SKILL.

I keep hearing MK shouldnt be banned cuz HE CAN BE BEATEN. NO **** HE CAN BE BEATEN! IF I GIVE THE CONTROL TO MY LITTLE BROTHER I CAN STILL BEAT HIS MK. IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHO'S PLAYING W/ HIM. the problem w/ this character is that you have to be EXPONENTIALLY BETTER than the other player(MK USER) to beat his MK and that is not fair. its CHEAP. keep crying kid.
 

Lord Viper

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Donkey Kong counters Metaknight?
I saw a few match's with DK & Meta Knight, that DK was killing Meta Knight at 80% or around there with his smash, or his Basic-B. DK has good reach with his attacks to beat off Meta Knight, and has good knock back to. Unless the Meta Knight main also mains King Dedede. XD
 

Sonic527

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I understand Metaknights are hard to fight but he also has his problems.

He is very light so smash attacks can kill him easily and he dosn't really have many good finishing attacks, its just don't get lazy when your fighting him and be defensive.
 

Nowaytoeatatater

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I understand Metaknights are hard to fight but he also has his problems.

He is very light so smash attacks can kill him easily and he dosn't really have many good finishing attacks (besides up B and down smash but I can usually see them comming right away.)
He doesn't need to finish you. All he has to do is get you off the stage.
 

The Halloween Captain

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Why do you people trust the Brawl character matchup chart even slightly for determining what is an advantage and what isn't?

MK is a good, very irritating character (although Pit is far more annoying). Fine. I could care less if he was banned, because I don't main him, nor do I have serious enough problems with him to consider banning him myself. However, saying he has only 2 counters while people are telling you that the matchup chart is wrong about one of them, it does not make sence to put any trust in a chart while being already told that the chart is WRONG.

In short, stop relying on a chart which is clearly wrong.
 

Leprechaun_Drunk

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I think it's entirely rediculous to even consider banning MK before other things that should be banned.

Ban MK, but allow D3's standing infinite on Luigi, Mario, DK, Samus, and Bowser? That seems absurd to me. Not to mention the Ice climbers...
 

QNZ_RAFA

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I understand Metaknights are hard to fight but he also has his problems.

He is very light so smash attacks can kill him easily and he dosn't really have many good finishing attacks (besides up B and down smash but I can usually see them comming right away.)
HAHAH. you must be the only person on earth to see MK's launch and down smash coming. LOL. they happen at the speed of light. ur so full of it.

o and to respond to the post b4 this one.

I LITERALLY SAW in tournament match...I PROMISE YOU, a really good DK player lose to a MK player. and all that MK player did...W/O EXAGGERATION , TORNADO AND DOWN SMASH ONLY!!!!! and he won.
 

The Halloween Captain

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MK seems to have a very small weakness concerning diagnol attacks - attacks that come from an angle, not directly from the left, right, top, or bottom. This is essentail for a Diddy Kong user, who is still small enough to fit into these semi-safe zones.

EDIT: Also, those kill moves are predictable because MK is very limited in his approach when he wishes to use one of those attacks.
 

Baky

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I saw a few match's with DK & Meta Knight, that DK was killing Meta Knight at 80% or around there with his smash, or his Basic-B. DK has good reach with his attacks to beat off Meta Knight, and has good knock back to. Unless the Meta Knight main also mains King Dedede. XD
Now explain how the DK gets the MK to 80%. Oh wait he doesnt because all of his moves are out prioritized by almost everything MK has.

Up-tilt locking doesnt work. MK can neutral air or Dair.
In the air DK doesnt stand a chance.
Offstage a good MK will keep DK away without exerting too much effort.

And yes, on ground DK has a few moves that reach further than moves MK has. The problem is, DK can be punished for using any of those moves.

EDIT: G&W and Falco are the two characters who are closest to 50/50 with MK. I think.
 

R10T!!11!

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lol..u cant ban a character just because they're broken...it can get extremely annoying and u may want to get ur controller and just start pounding the MK player with it.:chuckle:.but MK will never get fully banned everywhere..so long as mk is a char. in brawl(or in any game in the series) he cant get totally banned..(same goes for snake):ohwell:
 
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I can honestly say that I play a fairly good Meta Knight. Even though I have to admit he's very gay. I'm not even talking about his B moves either, just his general stance as a character. But banning him isn't reasonable in the least.

Besides, who's gonna stop Snake?
 
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