Metaknight Officially Banned In Italy.

[Aldwyn McCloud]

To whoever that guy was earlier, mk is a ton easier than snake XD. Snake to metaknight is melee fox to melee sheik. Snake is easier than melee fox, and if its humanely possible, metaknight is as easy or easier than melee sheik.

Melee Sheik isn't easy.. maybe less technical, but not less hard.

 

[Ephyon]

People, think for a second. Once you cross the line and ban MK, unbanning him 'at a later date' won't undo the damage.

Banning a whole character will have drastic effects on brawl today. And if it ruins brawl today, there won't be a tomorrow. I can almost guarentee it, banning Meta Knight will piss off a lot of people and make them quit. You will lose a large portion of your competitive scene (all those Meta Knights) and they WON'T come back. What does this mean? You're lowering the number of people who enter every tournament. This directly effects you. Prizes for winning a tournement will be lower. There will be fewer people to play friendlies with. But most importantly, tournament hosts will stop hosting if they continually get low turn-out rates.

Banning a character prematurely is probably the fastest way to ruin Brawl. Think about things beyond "he's too hard! waaaahh!" This isn't a minor issue. You can't ban Meta Knight for a year and "see how things turn out." Because if this breaks brawl, magically turning Meta Knight back on again won't fix anything. Once he's gone, people who main him are gone. They won't hear the: "Please come back now! Banning him was a mistake!" announcement when everything goes to hell. Issues like this need to be handled carefully, or else the competitive Brawl scene will disappear. Certainly, banning a character a couple months after a game's release is always a bad idea.

No top player will continue to play brawl if the character they've spent months practicing with is banned. Period. Expecially if they realize when you're willing to ban Meta Knight, you might also be willing to ban Snake or DDD or whoever dominates the metagame at the time. Nobody wants to waste hours of their life for NOTHING. Banning Meta Knight effectively throws people's time away. Bad idea. It will make players angry.

well, you may have a point...

Just imagine: if every tournament has millions of Meta Knights and you're sick of seeing them day in and day out, imagine how empty your next "Meta Knight-Banned" tournement will be when only you and some guy who mains pikachu shows up. It's not as easy as "just switch characters so I can beat you." Because...people won't switch characters. People are stubborn. They'll loose interest and quit brawl.

...but not here.

I mean: If in Italy banned Lucario I'd be all like "Crap! those Idiots banned Lucario! Why is that? He' s my fav! Oh well. If I have to go on a tournament, I'll train with Marth."
Because, ya know, Brawl is not all Meta-Knight. All right, maybe competitive players prefer metaknight because <insert random reason here>, but there are other 36 characters.WE KNOW training takes away time, but you have to remember that Brawl's A GAME, not a WORK. Especially here in Italy. Some of this chars are more competitive, some don't. If one of these "competitive chars" is banned, probably A LOT of people will quit Brawl because "OMG <CHARACTER> IS BANNED!". A LOT of other people, who likes Brawl just because is Brawl, will stick to another character. So? You like metaknight? It's not been eradicated from your game disk,you know.
You can continue playing it online.


...And anyway, I' m not positive with any bans. Even if it's MetaKnight.

 

[Loyal2NES]

@zamz

It's only Italy doing the ban, not the entire Smash community worldwide. You're seriously overestimating the impact this will have on Brawl.

...Plus, anyone who would leave Brawl forever because they main Metaknight and ONLY Metaknight (as opposed to having some secondary and tertiary characters as well, god forbid) clearly isn't doing the Smash community any favors by staying.

That said, I say let 'em keep the ban. While I don't agree with their decision, I believe it will be an interesting experiment worth pursuing. Just as we shouldn't be too hasty to ban stages and characters, so too should we not be too hasty in debunking a ban when the results of it are worth looking at.

I for one am highly interested in how Italy's metagame will progress from here.

 

[Doggalina]

That's what I asked for.. IC's wobbling was banned in Melee, not ICs themselves (and wobbling was even allowed in some tournaments..)

Wobbling wasn't banned by the SBR, which is what really matters when talking about bans. Individual tourneys may ban it (they did), but if the SBR doesn't see reason for it to be banned, then the ban probably won't become universal. In my opinion, Wobbling shouldn't be banned. It's far from an autowin. Hell, I've won matches in which I've been wobbled to death 3 times.

And people who say "If MK is banned, you gotta ban DDD, Snake, GaW, etc" are wrong. You act like people are talking of banning MK because he's the best. That's not it. It's because he's FAR and AWAY the best. Snake and DDD would NOT dominate the MK-free metagame like MK is dominating the current Brawl metagame.

/rant, off the play Melee.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Snake and DDD would NOT dominate the MK-free metagame like MK is dominating the current Brawl metagame.

This is already proven to be wrong, my good sir. Snake already dominated the tourney scene before MK players figured out how to beat him and ppl actually were talking about banning Snake, just before MK bagen to dominate...

 

[AntiC]

Honestly i can see what they're talking about of how he has no disadvantage. But at the same time i guess they aren't looking all to highly into the game as they should. Falco's chaingrab to spike combo is beastly against every character except for deedeedee/pit/kirby. Even then headstool could leave them to cheap KO's. Kirby/Deedeedee Cheap KO attacks. When you really think about it, MK has not a single projectile in his exposal, just spamming lasers and running away would be a smart idea with him, even if he can fly, pit's arrows can follow. So i can see how with MK's cheapness they wouldn't enjoy him being in the game, but at teh same time they don't see that small things infact could mess up an MK's gameplay.

 

[Lionman]

Cry me a riveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

Italy > Cheapknight

 

[~ Gheb ~]

AntiC, play a good MK and change your opinion, please

 

[AntiC]

AntiC, play a good MK and change your opinion, please

Ready? Go! "B" "B" "B" "B" "B" "Up+B" "B" "B" "B" "Up+B"

I play a pretty good MK, and i stick with my opinion, you're saying that playing Metaknight well = invincibility, fact is it doesn't, if a character knows how to use their character extremely well, knowing how much time an attack gives and reads their Opponent's MK well. They can still win, of course it would take a bit more time because like i said in the previous thread, he has no overall disadvantages. But fact is he still has disadvantages. He's very light for example, get him to 50-60% and given the opp. to smash him with Ike stock is done. I've seen Lucarios, Diddys (oddly), and Warios beat MK (granted the users were Reflex, JWong, and Azen, but even then the MK users were Forte and M2K, two of the best MK users around). So i stick whole-heartedly to my opinion because i've seen it done and done it myself.

EDIT : And Gheb_01, although i may be a Smash n00b on this forum, i don't appreciate you telling me to change my opinion for pretty much no reason, if everyone was to change their opinion to be linear and the same, there would be no discussion, just many people agreeing amongst each other.

 

[Affinity]

So i can see how with MK's cheapness they wouldn't enjoy him being in the game, but at teh same time they don't see that small things infact could mess up an MK's gameplay.

Italy > Cheapknight

I've said this many times...

Saying something is "Cheap" is just saying "I'm not good enough to beat him."


STFU Scrubs

 

[brinboy789]

-sigh-...after 7 pages of post people still arent explaining how MK is easy to use. hes not! u have to have really good spacing and knowledge of which moves to use. and no i dont use the tornado so dont say that
how is metaknight easier to use then snake? snake: ftilt x5 + utilt = win.
..............................

 

[Ulevo]

I can't help but find it funny that Italy has only been playing Brawl since what, July? And they've already banned a character. It certainly tells you that you have some brilliant smashers down there. What the hell makes Italy believe they are inclined enough on the game in order to make such a big decision with the limited experience they have?

North America is home to the best Smashers in the entire world, as well as Japan. We've been playing this game for significantly longer than Italy, and Japan has played for even longer than us. No one but Italy, who has only played this maybe two months now, has ever banned Meta Knight or soft banned him even remotely. You would think that this would be an indicator that he isn't ready to be eliminated from tournaments yet.

Let this be an example of how people react (and overreact) when they experience something they do not know how to deal with, and think they can go ban happy.

 

[Chis]

Metaknight: I'm too cheap!
↑
The truth :D

 

[ShadowLink84]

Amz Brawl won't die just because MK got banned.
People move on to the next best character thats how it was in SF2, that is how it will be now.

Yeah it does mess with the metagame but the loss of the strongest character won't kill the game.

 

[DarkRenji]

This argument of Snake: 5x Ftilt + Utilt is bull****. -.-
Its not like his ftilt hits like everything in the field and never misses orsomething. Its way easier to counter Snake's ftilt than for example... MK's downsmash.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Truth

Spoiler

10chars

 

[Ulevo]

-sigh-...after 7 pages of post people still arent explaining how MK is easy to use. hes not! u have to have really good spacing and knowledge of which moves to use. and no i dont use the tornado so dont say that
how is metaknight easier to use then snake? snake: ftilt x5 + utilt = win.
..............................

Meta Knight is easier to win with because he has less draw backs and weak points to exploit due to his statistics. Snake, despite being exceptionally powerful, has glaring exploits, such as his recovery, his lag, and his slow mobility. In order to eliminate those disadvantages in a battle requires more effort than if you were to use a character with less faults or without those specific faults. Meta Knight fits this description.

Just because Snake can kill effectively, which is what you're describing, doesn't mean he can win easily. But anyway. Meta Knight isn't as easy to use as people like to claim. Most Meta Knights are in fact terrible, as you need to know the essentials with him like with every character in order to do well, such as spacing; something most players lack.

 

[Thee Incubus]

-sigh-...after 7 pages of post people still arent explaining how MK is easy to use.

There are plenty of threads here discussing that.
A quick use of the search function would help you out there.

EDIT: Or read the post above me

 

[ShadowLink84]

The post above ends the topic.
The one below performs necromancy.

 

[Affinity]

Metaknight: I'm too cheap!
↑
The truth :D

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5361630#post5361630

 

[Thee Incubus]

This argument of Snake: 5x Ftilt + Utilt is bull****. -.-
Its not like his ftilt hits like everything in the field and never misses orsomething. Its way easier to counter Snake's ftilt than for example... MK's downsmash.

No, but still...

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yeah its kinda sad that his Utilt rivals that of Marth's Fsmash.

His tilts are easily punished due to the cooldown time and predictability while MK'sa re...not so much.

 

[Morrigan]

The Italian smash community just decided to ban Metaknight

on a side note.. there hasn't been a single brawl tournament in Italy yet.

Am I the only one that noticed this? How is it possible to ban a character if tournaments aren't even being held?

 

[SSD]

This is just disgraceful. Meta Knight is by no means a "skill switch".

Let me say one thing before I start to say more: I'm not very good at this game.

I have a friend who I play this game against on a fairly frequent basis. He uses Meta Knight as one of his characters. Not his main, but definitely on of his focus characters. I put a lot more thought into my actions than he does(he has more fitness with the controller). He sometimes beats me with his better characters, but I rarely lose to his meta knight, even when I'm not using some of my better characters.

Meta Knight does not magically nullify the thought and planning I put into my playstyle. We may not be competitive level, but if MK can't bridge a gap that small, I don't really see how he could bridge a larger gap in the way people seem to claim he can.

I've also played people far more skilled than myself. Picking Meta Knight doesn't yield better results - it usually ends up with me getting steamrolled even faster as I am using a character that I rarely play as.

He's nowhere near Akuma. He shouldn't be banned just for being better.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Akuma did not add skill to you either. You would get murdered if you didn't know how to use him./

MK is more like Old Sagat. He is really good.

 

[brinboy789]

There are plenty of threads here discussing that.
A quick use of the search function would help you out there.

EDIT: Or read the post above me

well obviously im not gonna search "why metaknight is too good" but nothings there anyways
no thread. and the moves that snake users spam alot have no startup lag. for example: ALL of his tilts. so he hes top tier so what why didnt we ban fox 8 years ago. stop complaining people. yea and how did italy ban MK if they didnt even have a tourney yet? >.< how does that work. and the post above somewehre said that MK wins majority of tourneys. however, even in that post it said he wins alot, but HE ISNT EASY TO USE! it takes along time to actually get good with him...

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

Am I the only one that noticed this? How is it possible to ban a character if tournaments aren't even being held?

Because Italy's got a good equipe of nerds who keep playing online friendlies since the game's relase. Their points in the argument are also based on those matches. Although when they need tournament proofs they look up to the American scene.

 

[DMG]

I am interested in seeing who would be dominating the Italy scene with MK gone... The results aren't gonna really prove anything IMO, but still would be interesting to see where characters stand once he is removed.

 

[ShengNu]

lmao too funny

 

[DanGR]

Banning Meta Knight effectively throws people's time away. Bad idea. It will make players angry.

This is what I feel like right now. I'm POed because I think I'm wasting my time using Olimar. I picked up Snake to combat MK, but it's not helping. I'm about to pick up MK to combat MK.

IMO, MK will never drop in popularity. His metagame will develop faster than any other character, and by the time it begins to slow down he'll be 3x better (or more) than any other character. This will take years imo. During those years, more and more people will quit their characters. Those characters' metagames will have so much potential to be better, but people won't bother trying. Why should people take the time to develop characters it when you could do 3x better with MK? There isn't a reason.

 

[Iron Thorn]

This is interesting. OP, how are the Italian tourneys shaping up without MK running around ****** stuff?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Snake will go ****** stuff, maybe?

 

[AntiC]

I've said this many times...

Saying something is "Cheap" is just saying "I'm not good enough to beat him."


STFU Scrubs

lmao, Main point: things that are cheap are things that are not ethically right but effective. Example, using ROB's downsmash after every dodge (just like ~CPU~ did in evo basically) is cheap, because although it's effect, there really isn't much else to it., no real strategy, just whoring out ROB's lagless downsmash.

you're so nice affinity+many numbers

 

[Ninja_Star]

Wow... They cant handle a character so they ban him. Real mature, Italy.

He does have weaknesses and he does have some neutral matches. Melee Fox/Falco were both extremely broken and cheap but no where did they ban him.

This is quite possibly the stupidest thing Italy has done next to teaming up with Hitler.

 

[wangston]

Banning meta hahahha. Next they're going to have to ban Snake. I find it very hard to ban a character after two months of game play. TWO MONTHS!!!!!! I'm guessing Italy saw that meta was doing the best so everyone went meta an hardly anyone bothered to learn another character. So now the meta players are playing at a higher level than the other characters. It's Italy's own fault for all running to meta. There are 34 other characters out there, and I know if you know your character better than the other guy knows his meta you will win.

 

[Black_Heretic]

Snake will go ****** stuff, maybe?

you mean go BACK to ****** tournies?

at least he has some unfavorable matchups

 

[Pyr0]

Italian Smashers this is for you:

QQ

 

[Affinity]

lmao, Main point: things that are cheap are things that are not ethically right but effective. Example, using ROB's downsmash after every dodge (just like ~CPU~ did in evo basically) is cheap, because although it's effect, there really isn't much else to it., no real strategy, just whoring out ROB's lagless downsmash.

lol

That doesn't mean ROB's D-smash is cheap; his D-smash can be shielded and punished afterwards. Only scrubs complain about things like that because spamming can easily be beaten by better players.

you're so nice affinity+many numbers

Please, just call me Affinity

 

[AntiC]

you mean go BACK to ****** tournies?

at least he has some unfavorable matchups

I think it would be G&W, he's the only one without disadv other the MK right?

 

[Justaway]

4 is many numbers?

anyway, just out of curiosity how big is the smash community in italy?