Metaknight Officially Banned In Italy.

[Aldwyn McCloud]

but no, youre right! Banning MK because you can't beat him makes complete sense!

this kinda sounds like an AVGN line :D

I appreciate the interest everyone showed in the "MK ban" topic. 6 pages in one day are far beyond my expectations. Anyway, it's not a perm-ban but not a temp-ban either. And anyway I didn't start this to have MK unbanned, I believe every community should be free to develop on its own. What I want to figure out is if the Italian players became so noobish they now need to ban a character after 2 months of relase or not. I personally have this feeling and I've never been so much disappointed in my own community. However I also have to admit I haven't played brawl competitively so I can't judge this seriously either. Therefore I'm asking the boards..

It'd be nice if someone could convince top players / brawl back roomers to give out their personal opinion about this.
*misses M2K's 6 paragraphs of pure beauty..*

Also, smash was always played in Italy, even though our community isn't that big (about 20-30 players).

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think, we all know what the broomers think of this...

 

[ADHD]

MK=/= Akuma.

Akuma could shut down the whole cast, to the point where if you got hit by the air hadoken there was nothing you could do. the problem is that the air hadoken was really easy to hit with.
MK doesnt COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN THE ENTIRE CAST. Yes, we know he's the best character in the game. you aren't the first scrub to complain instead of bothering to learn the matchup.
Learn to play. Thats what we do.

Edit: and how does the learning curve of a character make a difference anyway?
All i hear is BAWW MK is EZ 2 PLAI! LETS BAN HIM!
Seriously, someone explain it to me.

You main MK, why would you ever want your tourney winning character to become banned?

 

[Snail]

Yay... Lets hope the Netherlands are next.

God how I hate MK. And the people who main him too. "He can be beaten! He can be beaten!" When the only way to beat a character is to be tons better than your opponent, something is wrong. Kthx.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Is there a plausible reason to ban him?

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

I believe people were making a similar arguement when Melee first came out as well. Complains were about Sheik and Fox expecially (Sheik being too easy to play, Fox being too fast and having too many cool things in his moveset). The result was that those characters were so overplayed that in the end everybody figured out how to fight them. The opposite happened with Falco, who ruled the metagame during a certain period because he was unexpectedly brought out of darkness by players such as Forward and PC Chris. When M2K brought edgeguarding to a new level I've seen space animals constantly have problems dealing with Marth..

Oh also.. on a side note.. there hasn't been a single brawl tournament in Italy yet. An online tournament had been started but was never finished (not even WB finals). Efforts to organize other tournaments are being made but constantly fail because of general disorder. Same goes for Melee tournaments, the last one was in January 2008. When I said Tournament results were taken into consideration for the Metaknight ban I meant American tournaments. Online friendlies were played every day though.. I suppose... Maybe.....

And as for Snake, a ban for him is in the yard as well. Somehow, the community tought that at the moment he isn't that much of a menace for the metagame as metaknight is (and he has counters, unlike metaknight)

 

[PyroSpark]

If you ever ban MK....YOU BETTER EFFING BAN SNAKE TOO.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

^ And if Snake gets banned, you're gonna ban DDD, GaW, Falco and ROB too?

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

^ And if Snake gets banned, you're gonna ban DDD, GaW, Falco and ROB too?

I actually started wondering that too.. it wouldn't surprise me if such a decision was eventually taken..

 

[Ginger_Warrior]

You can't just ban the easiest character. The only MK move I have a problem with is Tornado, since it's unavoidable for the most part and cannot be countered. All they needed to do was ban excessive use of that move...

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

You can't just ban the easiest character. The only MK move I have a problem with is Tornado, since it's unavoidable for the most part and cannot be countered. All they needed to do was ban excessive use of that move...

That's what I asked for.. IC's wobbling was banned in Melee, not ICs themselves (and wobbling was even allowed in some tournaments..). But no, metaknight was to be simply banned. I even asked for other ways to still let him in, such as having the MK player play with half the stocks of his opponent but no, no way. I agree that MK is a bit overpowered, but banning him simply keeps players like me from playing with their favourite character/the character they're mostly skilled with. And I personally don't find it fair nor helpful to vary the metagame.

 

[SSD]

You can't just ban the easiest character. The only MK move I have a problem with is Tornado, since it's unavoidable for the most part and cannot be countered. All they needed to do was ban excessive use of that move...

But that leads into more twisted crap. You place a basic rule, and someone will find a way around it. If there appears to be a loophole, it will be exploited to the fullest. We should just draw a line and stick with it. As far as I know, smash has never had any banned characters. Ever. We ban items. We ban stages. But not characters. If this ban stays or spreads anywhere else, I will feel very sad. It's just pitiful.

 

[Ginger_Warrior]

That's what I asked for.. IC's wobbling was banned in Melee, not ICs themselves (and wobbling was even allowed in some tournaments..). But no, metaknight was to be simply banned. I even asked for other ways to still let him in, such as having the MK player play with half the stocks of his opponent but no, no way. I agree that MK is a bit overpowered, but banning him simply keeps players like me from playing with their favourite character/the character they're mostly skilled with. And I personally don't find it fair nor helpful to vary the metagame.

This is what annoys me about the Tier List. The SBR makes the tier list for people to do whatever they like with, but people don't even use it for anything other than bragging rights or arguments for their respective characters (like I honestly care whether TL is top of middle or bottom of high - he's still TL).

The Pokémon community is different. They place the overly powerful Pokémon (read: legendary) in a tier of their own, and then it is up to to individual tournaments whether they want to ban that tier altogether, or allow it.

If the Italians wanted to create a fairer game, they should have banned the top tier altogether, or put in measurements to restrict how much characters it can be used. Selecting one character seems totally unfair though - Snake and G&W are hard to counter as well.

 

[Exia 00]

wow.......... Thats sad >.>

 

[pastaboy]

woaw, italy has a smash scene, whoever said that there possibly low metagame is probly resulting in metaknights ban is right. i wuld like to see some vids of their top players, just to see where they/we stand. they shuldnt be too good, italians have one weakness, pasta(not me). as of yet mk shuldnt be banned,dont you like a challenge?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wiat, so there aren't any tourneys in Italy yet? But they already banned him? That's even more ridicoulus...

 

[Retroend]

meta knights manageable. don't see why they had to ban him. if anyone deserves a ban, its king dedede. i hate him.

 

[Dynomite]

Reflex is top tier thats why.. m2k taunt kills >_< but yes, johns johns and more johns about banning mk, if u dont like him play snake, its that easy... my mk got 3 stocked by a rob the last tourny i want to, dont gimi bs about "unbeatable" yet i came back and won 2-1.. <3 marf

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

If the Italians wanted to create a fairer game, they should have banned the top tier altogether, or put in measurements to restrict how much characters it can be used. Selecting one character seems totally unfair though - Snake and G&W are hard to counter as well.

a tier list is under project in Italy and God Tier characters are to be banned. Atm only MK belongs to that category, though Snake might possibly be added.

woaw, italy has a smash scene, whoever said that there possibly low metagame is probly resulting in metaknights ban is right. i wuld like to see some vids of their top players, just to see where they/we stand. they shuldnt be too good, italians have one weakness, pasta(not me). as of yet mk shuldnt be banned,dont you like a challenge?

Don't get me wrong man, but if there's one thing Italians are good at, is cooking. I personally strongly dislike my own country but have never eaten better food than ours. Back on the topic, there are very few and old videos from the started and never finished Brawl tournament. If you speak about Melee there were pretty good players. Not as good as American Top Pros but still good.

 

[Ephyon]

Wow, I'm italian and I DIDN'T KNEW there was an italian Brawl community? Lol.
Well, banning a character...now that's stupid.

A character' s strength depends on who has the controller in his hands too...If you suck at using MK, you suck. That's it. Train harder.

That depends, though...If in a tournament there are ONLY meta-knights, the game' s not funny anymore...altough now I read there haven't been tournaments in Italy yet...They ban a character before seeing how much/well is used in competitive matches?

OK, maybe (and I say MAYBE) his attack speed is problematic. I main Lucario, but if I sense a Shuttle Loop coming at me while I'm in air, I simply DT it! that already happened, and my opponent was star ko'd multiple times.

He' s not perfect: if any of his special moves fail while he's in the air, he's helpless!

-Mach tornado? fail at dragging me with you in the air and you're helpless!
-shuttle loop? fail it plus your gliding attk and you're helpless!
-Drill-something? Miss me and you're gonna get PWNeD. Oh, sorry, you can change direction? I simply sidestep/evade or shield it!
-His teleport? c'mon, if he uses it you know it's coming at you! It's not like that? Ok, just teleport yourself away. See if I care. Wait, you teleported yourself in the air? you FOOL. You're helpless again

NO JOHNS.

Maybe the ones that complain are simply weak or newbs.
When I see a MK player, I don't think "NOOO! He's gonna kick my butt!". I think "a MK, huh? let's see what you got!". Same thing if I see any other character, top tier or not. That's the spirit of this game.

 

[DarkRenji]

When I first saw this thread, my reaction was: "... Italy has Brawl? lol wtf h4x"

Wow, that was a really gay post.

 

[Ephyon]

Don't get me wrong man, but if there's one thing Italians are good at, is cooking. I personally strongly dislike my own country but have never eaten better food than ours.

that's so right, man.

Remember: if you can eat pizza today, you owe it to us. REMEMBER THAT.
Why should I go to a mc donald's (yup, lower cases, any problem? ) eatin' freaking hamburgers tall 1 meter when there's an italian pizza hut near? I don't want to become a whale, you know.

 

[Laeryn]

When I first saw this thread, my reaction was: "... Italy has Brawl? lol wtf h4x"

Lol, this was exactly my reaction... and I'm Italian.
Never heard of an Italian community though, and now I'm really interested. PM'd you, Aldwyn.

About the ban of Meta Knight... who knows? It seems... wrong to ban a character, but it's also true that people choosing always the same (stronger) characters make things boring.
Maybe this ban will encourage more variety.

Oh, and this is my first post here. I've been a lurker for a long time, but I just have to post something in a thread about Italy.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

that's so right, man.

Remember: if you can eat pizza today, you owe it to us. REMEMBER THAT.
Why should I go to a mc donald's (yup, lower cases, any problem? ) eatin' freaking hamburgers tall 1 meter when there's an italian pizza hut near? I don't want to become a whale, you know.

Since our community has always been little it doesn't surprise me that so many Italians are actually lurking on smashboards without knowing about it. I guess it's time for you to check it out then =P it's pretty old, as it was founded in the Melee times and new members might actually be what will bring a breath of fresh air to it. Still, it was the only community to represent Italy abroad in the Melee times.

 

[Callumm]

Let's ban Wario and Lucario too. Just because I don't like them.

 

[Fuzzyness]

rofl aldwyn, this is stupid ^_^

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

rofl aldwyn, this is stupid ^_^

stupid?

this.. IS.. ITALY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Metaknight gets smashed into bottomless pit*







...

yeah, it's stupid.

 

[Zaker_ZM]

Maybe the ones that complain are simply weak or newbs.
When I see a MK player, I don't think "NOOO! He's gonna kick my butt!". I think "a MK, huh? let's see what you got!". Same thing if I see any other character, top tier or not. That's the spirit of this game.

I agree with Ephyon_SylphShroud, just cause your faced with a high tier character doesn't necessarily mean your opponent is a pro.
My second main is MK but i've no problem with learning how to play a new character, they each only have like 15 different moves, and unless your a complete newbie to the game you'll know what moves to use in different situations.

So it's about time all you MK player's stop crying, most of you aren't even from Italy.
So what if the player gets banned, unless MK is all you live for...

 

[Yuna]

So what if the player gets banned, unless MK is all you live for...

Because there's no (good) reason to ban him. This is a slippery slope. It's stupid. It's Scrubby behavior. We're removing a part of the meta-game for no good reason.

Take your pick. I mean, why bother when someone bans soda in your home country, right? Or if they ban videogames. Or, say, the Internet. It's just one thing and you can live without it!

 

[Yuna]

I actually started wondering that too.. it wouldn't surprise me if such a decision was eventually taken..

Ban everyone down to Mid Tier. Then it'll just be all about counter-picking characters.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

Ban everyone down to Mid Tier. Then it'll just be all about counter-picking characters.

exactly.

10 chars.

 

[Tristan_win]

haha, and so it begins.

 

[ph00tbag]

Stupid ban.

(Despite this, a warm place has been reserved in my heart for the great nation of Italy.)

Incidentally, I do hope you keep us updated on the progress of the tourney metagame there.

 

[pastaboy]

stupid?

this.. IS.. ITALY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Metaknight gets smashed into bottomless pit*







...

yeah, it's stupid.

hows the pasta over there

 

[Ginger_Warrior]

So what if the player gets banned, unless MK is all you live for...

I suggest the government of whatever country you live in ban video games for no apparent reason. Then we'll see if you would still like to stick by that logic.

 

[MarKO X]

lol @ the thread.

Maybe I'll go to school in Italy for a year and play Smash there... rock out with Sonic, especially since he natural enemy, the MK, is banned. jk

Wow... if they think MK is broken, they need to play Americans in general. They just might ban the entire game.

But seriously, Italy had the game for what now? Two, maybe three months? (I dunno the exact Euro-release date because, well, I'm in America) WTF?

 

[M@v]

I'm mainly Italian decent, so I still love them xD.

Ban everyone down to Mid Tier. Then it'll just be all about counter-picking characters.

Then fox would be the 3rd best character if you go by the tier list =D.



yeah, but seriously, this whole ban is stupid....its all ******* who dont know the matchup...

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

hows the pasta over there

pasta's good as usual. I'm not expecting foreign pasta to be bad though, it's usually more a matter of cooking rather than the pasta itself.

But seriously, Italy had the game for what now? Two, maybe three months? (I dunno the exact Euro-release date because, well, I'm in America) WTF?

27th of June..

 

[zamz]

People, think for a second. Once you cross the line and ban MK, unbanning him 'at a later date' won't undo the damage.

Banning a whole character will have drastic effects on brawl today. And if it ruins brawl today, there won't be a tomorrow. I can almost guarentee it, banning Meta Knight will piss off a lot of people and make them quit. You will lose a large portion of your competitive scene (all those Meta Knights) and they WON'T come back. What does this mean? You're lowering the number of people who enter every tournament. This directly effects you. Prizes for winning a tournement will be lower. There will be fewer people to play friendlies with. But most importantly, tournament hosts will stop hosting if they continually get low turn-out rates.

Banning a character prematurely is probably the fastest way to ruin Brawl. Think about things beyond "he's too hard! waaaahh!" This isn't a minor issue. You can't ban Meta Knight for a year and "see how things turn out." Because if this breaks brawl, magically turning Meta Knight back on again won't fix anything. Once he's gone, people who main him are gone. They won't hear the: "Please come back now! Banning him was a mistake!" announcement when everything goes to hell. Issues like this need to be handled carefully, or else the competitive Brawl scene will disappear. Certainly, banning a character a couple months after a game's release is always a bad idea.

No top player will continue to play brawl if the character they've spent months practicing with is banned. Period. Expecially if they realize when you're willing to ban Meta Knight, you might also be willing to ban Snake or DDD or whoever dominates the metagame at the time. Nobody wants to waste hours of their life for NOTHING. Banning Meta Knight effectively throws people's time away. Bad idea. It will make players angry.

Just imagine: if every tournament has millions of Meta Knights and you're sick of seeing them day in and day out, imagine how empty your next "Meta Knight-Banned" tournement will be when only you and some guy who mains pikachu shows up. It's not as easy as "just switch characters so I can beat you." Because...people won't switch characters. People are stubborn. They'll loose interest and quit brawl.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

To whoever that guy was earlier, mk is a ton easier than snake XD. Snake to metaknight is melee fox to melee sheik. Snake is easier than melee fox, and if its humanely possible, metaknight is as easy or easier than melee sheik.