MetaKnight Infinite Dimensional Cape - hope you enjoy

[Fire!]

It's hard to do and you can't really stall for several minutes with it o_0

Good for Sudden Death maybe...



This is for all you left handed people. I'm left handed and I can do the glitch(Can fully cross Bridge of Eldin) but I always seem to move to the left. My thumb can not just move the C-stick straight up fast enough to do the glitch so I can only do the glitch while moving left. Does this happen to you guys too?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Good for Sudden Death maybe...



This is for all you left handed people. I'm left handed and I can do the glitch(Can fully cross Bridge of Eldin) but I always seem to move to the left. My thumb can not just move the C-stick straight up fast enough to do the glitch so I can only do the glitch while moving left. Does this happen to you guys too?

Just requires practice. I used to have that issue, but if you're moving in a direction, you're DIing in that direction.

-_-

What has the world come 2 when ATs are banned before they are proven broken?

This is just as bad as when.........that other name for this tech was banned...

The smashbackroomers were doing testing of it among themselves. Obviously their testing results were precisely what I concluded it would be, that the tech basically forced you to take a ledge or a platform far above MK, therefore it was enough to push MK into Akuma tier.

 

[metaXzero]

Even Akuma saw some tournament action before being banned. >_>

What I'm saying is that they should have waited for tournament results confirming the brokeness of this tech in play. Right now, few (if any) MKs were even taking this into tournies (not even Mew2King). So I figured that it be better to just let it run its course through a few tournies before the banhammer.

 

[shadowlink3]

Good for Sudden Death maybe...



This is for all you left handed people. I'm left handed and I can do the glitch(Can fully cross Bridge of Eldin) but I always seem to move to the left. My thumb can not just move the C-stick straight up fast enough to do the glitch so I can only do the glitch while moving left. Does this happen to you guys too?

Sudden death will never be played out in tourney.

 

[The Slayer]

Even Akuma saw some tournament action before being banned. >_>

What I'm saying is that they should have waited for tournament results confirming the brokeness of this tech in play. Right now, few (if any) MKs were even taking this into tournies (not even Mew2King). So I figured that it be better to just let it run its course through a few tournies before the banhammer.

It could have been, but I guess they made it seem like it's perfectly possible to stall for a LONG time no matter what circumstances. I guess you can't beat the dead horse since it's now official.

 

[metaXzero]

I still think its a load of crap without tournament results supporting it, but what can ya do?

*sigh*

 

[worldjem7]

I agree. I think it should be given more tournament testing as well.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Even Akuma saw some tournament action before being banned. >_>

What I'm saying is that they should have waited for tournament results confirming the brokeness of this tech in play. Right now, few (if any) MKs were even taking this into tournies (not even Mew2King). So I figured that it be better to just let it run its course through a few tournies before the banhammer.

The environment that they would've been testing it in would be equivalent to the tournament environment, namely "play to win".

Tournaments are specific examples of techniques paired with this mentality, but anywhere that this mentality can be achieved, and for whatever reason it is understood, the results will stand for the same type of environment.

 

[metaXzero]

Tournament results>Personal study

Like I said, it would have been better to have actual tournament results (and videos) showing this technique as broken. SBR banning it with nothing but their personal testing doesn't sit well with me.

Seriously! We don't even have videos!

 

[shadowlink3]

I have to agree with meta, i dont care what happens with this banning wise, but i dont even see people using it at all, its cause they cant do it for long periods of time

 

[ShaolinAce]

wait it was banned because of personal testing? wtf was it abused and owned with at all? Now that I do not agree with.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Tournament results>Personal study

Tournament testing is a way to get the best players in the game to fight and test what makes a difference.


In this case, personal testing is was the best players in the game fighting and testing what makes a difference, because it was the smash backroom.

Tournament testing is just a roundabout way of achieving precisely the same goal as personal expirience.

Tournament results have this this great appeal for deciding things, but there's a specific reason why they work, the bring together the best players of the game and test the rulesets. Anything that does precisely the same thing is just as valid a form of testing, and it has the added advantages of you being able to set the test conditions instead of depending on chance to make sure that what you need to test is tested.

wait it was banned because of personal testing? wtf was it abused and owned with at all? Now that I do not agree with.

Obviously it WAS abused and owned with, just not in tournaments.

 

[metaXzero]

You take a while 2 reply don't ya adumbrodeus?

Anyway, what I'd like to see are actual results proving it (I hate repeating). We don't have videos anywhere proving it as broken and SBR hasn't released anything other then their decision. This is why I would have prefered actual tournament examples.

From what I've read in the SBR ruleset discussion thread, they didn't ban it because it makes MK "broken" or "Akuma tier". It looks more like they banned it just because (this again?) it COULD be used to stall. -_-

 

[IrArby]

If you leave it in, competitive play deteriorates whenever someone uses it. Say a MK uses it and his D3 opponent just chains 50 consecutive spotdodges together to avoid it and you've got some Hella-Boring gameplay. No, MK being able to dissapperate is a bad thing overall.

 

[metaXzero]

^We truly don't know if that would've been the case. I want actual videos or tournament results proving this, not just presumptions.

I know know its banned and some1 like me wouldn't be able to change the SBR's decision, but that doesn't stop me from dissaproving how they handled it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

You take a while 2 reply don't ya adumbrodeus?

I do have a life outside of smashboards...

From what I've read in the SBR ruleset discussion thread, they didn't ban it because it makes MK "broken" or "Akuma tier". It looks more like they banned it just because (this again?) it COULD be used to stall. -_-

If so, it's just as legit, it's impossible to tell if the tech is being used to approach, then lacking an opening, retreat or being used to stall.


As Yuna, and lots of other people, mentioned, fuzzy rules don't work.

 

[metaXzero]

What I really don't get is why they said they will leave infinites alone (unless they actually start to have a big impact on the game) but they won't do the same for this -_-

 

[IrArby]

None of the infinites are broken though. Not saying this tech is broken but ICs infinite sure isn't winning many big tournaments for them. Plus, even if your character can be standing infinited by say D3, a huge part of Brawl is the matchup and countermatchups. Trying to stick with one character only in Brawl is simply stupid. Just counterpick with someone who doesn't get CG across the stage.
Lastly, theres only one D3 that consitently wins using him and that M2K. No one else has used him to such great success thus his (semi or full) infinites aren't so broken either.

For the record I think Falco's Laser lock infinite is really gay.

 

[Arekku]

I can not get this to work, what am i doing wrong?
i can get it for a few seconds, but not for longer then like 3 seconds
am i just not tapping the cstick fast enough, or is my timing off?

Thanks

 

[metaXzero]

None of the infinites are broken though. Not saying this tech is broken but ICs infinite sure isn't winning many big tournaments for them. Plus, even if your character can be standing infinited by say D3, a huge part of Brawl is the matchup and countermatchups. Trying to stick with one character only in Brawl is simply stupid. Just counterpick with someone who doesn't get CG across the stage.
Lastly, theres only one D3 that consitently wins using him and that M2K. No one else has used him to such great success thus his (semi or full) infinites aren't so broken either.

For the record I think Falco's Laser lock infinite is really gay.

In the time between its discovery and its banning, no1 was dominating with the Infinite Cape. People were barely using it! If their not going to ban infinites unless they start dominating the game, why are they banning this now?

And yes, I also despise infinites.

 

[IrArby]

Yea like I said this tech isn't proven to be broken but it would creates a lot of problems. I'm all for chaingrabs if they stop at a reasonable percent.

 

[gantrain05]

In the time between its discovery and its banning, no1 was dominating with the Infinite Cape. People were barely using it! If their not going to ban infinites unless they start dominating the game, why are they banning this now?

And yes, I also despise infinites.

they are banning it because its on an already broken character, infinites with characters like the IC or D3 nobody really cares about because they can be easily beaten with the right counterpicks or just play better than your opponent, i think its just that nobody likes metaknight and i don't blame them.

 

[metaXzero]

Actually it seems they just don't want to deal with a potential stalling situation. They haven't stated anything about this tech being broken or it being on MK.

I still don't approve. -_-

 

[IceDX]

So is banned Already???

 

[Hoboparty]

Can you change directions while invisible or do you choose a direction on the ground and then just go until you want to stop? (left or right movement only)

 

[IrArby]

You can change direction. Just tilt the Control stick left or right.

 

[acv]

So is banned Already???

yes

10bannedinfinitedimmensionalcapes

 

[metaXzero]

And with no tournament results too! :bigthumbu

 

[adumbrodeus]

What I really don't get is why they said they will leave infinites alone (unless they actually start to have a big impact on the game) but they won't do the same for this -_-

Infinites you need to maintain, it's easy to tell when it's being used for stall. With this, you can just continuously approach and retreat, which you could easily be doing just to try to get an opening. You can't tell the difference between stalling and doing this.

None of the infinites are broken though. Not saying this tech is broken but ICs infinite sure isn't winning many big tournaments for them. Plus, even if your character can be standing infinited by say D3, a huge part of Brawl is the matchup and countermatchups. Trying to stick with one character only in Brawl is simply stupid. Just counterpick with someone who doesn't get CG across the stage.
Lastly, theres only one D3 that consitently wins using him and that M2K. No one else has used him to such great success thus his (semi or full) infinites aren't so broken either.

For the record I think Falco's Laser lock infinite is really gay.

Infinite stalls are in general broken. This just happens to be an approach too. The thing is, with the infinite attacks, you can tell if they're a stall, this you can't. It's possible to sort of say, but you can't really make a clear-cut rule, which isn't fair to the players.

"Gay" is not a synonym for "stupid" (no, I'm not gay, it just annoys me).

Anyway, it's only an infinite with walls, and doesn't allow for a kill off it, just really high percents even if it is an infinite in a given match (aka, in corneria).

In the time between its discovery and its banning, no1 was dominating with the Infinite Cape. People were barely using it! If their not going to ban infinites unless they start dominating the game, why are they banning this now?

And yes, I also despise infinites.

Because infinite stalls are auto-banned? And if you can't make a clear defining rule that differentiate a legitimate technique from an infinite stall it's auto-banned?




I dunno why nobody was using with it, but I was planning on pulling it out on my next tournie, and having some fun.

But this really tells a great deal more about the MK community then anything else, in other words, a lack of "play to win" mentality.

 

[metaXzero]

As I'll continue to say, I disliked how SBR handled this because all they did was say "banned because some1 might stall" without even waiting for an example to materialize.

MKs have the most reported tournament wins now. Don't see how that coincides with your "lack of play to win mentality" statement. And most MKs users I've seen (and Mew2King) say that this tech's difficulty to maintain for long periods of time and difficulty to apply to their game-style properly led them to not try and abuse it...

 

[adumbrodeus]

As I'll continue to say, I disliked how SBR handled this because all they did was say "banned because some1 might stall" without even waiting for an example to materialize.

Standard practice for infinite stalls. Infinite stalling is universally banned in smash because there are plenty of examples of it's brokenness.

It's essentially no different then the rising pound stall, aside from technical difficulty, and the status that causes the infinite stall.

MKs have the most reported tournament wins now. Don't see how that coincides with your "lack of play to win mentality" statement. And most MKs users I've seen (and Mew2King) say that this tech's difficulty to maintain for long periods of time and difficulty to apply to their game-style properly led them to not try and abuse it...

If a Marth main picking up MK in reaction to this tech's discovery can do it for extended periods (aka, myself), so can MK mains. Really, ANY tech is doable consistently, some just require more practice then others. Saying "that tech is too hard to use" is not a good arguement, because then it's just waiting for people to practice that tech enough to get it down and abuse it.

As you might have noticed, the smash back room outvoted M2K on that. He's good, he's not omniscient, and in this case, he's just wrong.

 

[metaXzero]

Please produce a video of this tech being used for an such an extended amount of time. SBR hasn't released anything besides their word and no1 has posted such a video in ANY thread.

Also, Melee Fox had the ability to completely eat up shields with JC-shines. Yet, not even Mew2King or Silent Wolf got that good to do it (or do it consistently).

 

[adumbrodeus]

Please produce a video of this tech being used for an such an extended amount of time. SBR hasn't released anything besides their word and no1 has posted such a video in ANY thread.

Don't have a capture card, and right now, I see now reason to get it down past my two-minute record anyway since it's banned.

Regardless, it's not even the fact that somebody is able to do it that matters. It's the fact that it's possible.

Also, Melee Fox had the ability to completely eat up shields with JC-shines. Yet, not even Mew2King or Silent Wolf got that good to do it (or do it consistently).

So? They need to practice more to get the tech down.

If people got praying down consistently, they can get this down and that tech down. They just need to spend the extensive time to get it down.

Part of it is also a risk/reward thing. Was eating up shields consistently worth it? Ultimately they decided no probably, and went to higher reward techs.

 

[metaXzero]

Don't have a capture card, and right now, I see now reason to get it down past my two-minute record anyway since it's banned.

Regardless, it's not even the fact that somebody is able to do it that matters. It's the fact that it's possible.



So? They need to practice more to get the tech down.

If people got praying down consistently, they can get this down and that tech down. They just need to spend the extensive time to get it down.

Part of it is also a risk/reward thing. Was eating up shields consistently worth it? Ultimately they decided no probably, and went to higher reward techs.

Its possible yes, but I've yet to see a video. It be nice to see this applied in battle and securing a victory, but that's not happening. So the least I can get is some1 doing it for such a long time.

And what you said about eating shields with JC-shines not being worth it can be applied here as well with the lack of use...

 

[shadowlink3]

i love you guys, my friend told me this is possible the fastest growing thread on the smashboards. o.o lol. I think really both sides bring up good valid points

 

[adumbrodeus]

Its possible yes, but I've yet to see a video. It be nice to see this applied in battle and securing a victory, but that's not happening. So the least I can get is some1 doing it for such a long time.

Nice but not necessary.

And what you said about eating shields with JC-shines not being worth it can be applied here as well with the lack of use...

Auto-win when your opponent is at a higher percent then you, versus a highly situational tech...


If a tech is broken, it's broken regardless of difficulty in performance. If a tech is powerful enough, they'll be a group that will master it, if not then it will be forgotten. It might just take a while.


In this case we don't need to wait for it to be master because... infinite stalls have already been proven broken by extensive tournament testing, ergo the tech is broken. Therefore, difficulty is irrelevant.

 

[metaXzero]

"Broken" with no tournament exposure.

This tech is just deemed broken because it COULD be used to stall. Its banishment assumes every1 who uses this tech will ONLY TRY AND STALL. It doesn't look at other uses. It just assumes "once a person does the tech, they will only stall with it and nothing else".

Anyway, my stance on SBR's decision is final until their is actual evidence to support it (and not just their word). I just can't approve of banning something before it even gets SOME tourny input...

 

[adumbrodeus]

"Broken" with no tournament exposure.

Infinite stalls have plenty of tournament exposure...

This tech is just deemed broken because it COULD be used to stall. Its banishment assumes every1 who uses this tech will ONLY TRY AND STALL. It doesn't look at other uses. It just assumes "once a person does the tech, they will only stall with it and nothing else".

Then create a hard rule that removes the ability to infinitely stall with the tech, but allows it to be used as an approach. If you can get something that's workable, we'll see what we can do.

If the infinite stall was the only reason it was banned, then a rule meeds to be created with these attributes.

1. Allows for other uses to be differentiated from stalling
2. Doesn't require 24/7 presence from a judge with a stopwatch
3. Isn't a fuzzy rule (in other words, explicitly defines what is and is not acceptable).
4. Is actually effective at preventing stalling

If and ONLY if a rule is created in which those 4 criteria are met (I believe I didn't forget anything) then the ruling gets reexamined.

If not, then the tech stays banned.

Anyway, my stance on SBR's decision is final until their is actual evidence to support it (and not just their word). I just can't approve of banning something before it even gets SOME tourny input...

Again, infinite stalls have already gotten tournament exposure. An infinite stall doesn't factor in the opponent, ergo it doesn't require actual testing, just knowledge that the char has obtained an invincible position a period of time dependent on how long the tech is maintained assuming it is repeatable, as tested by previous data.

Invincibility itself obviously qualifies.



So yes, it's gotten defacto exposure, just not the specific technique.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Wow, Meta knight's Infinite Dimensional Cape glitch is officially banned in tournaments...

 

[gantrain05]

Wow, Meta knight's Infinite Dimensional Cape glitch is officially banned in tournaments...

oh well, maybe people will stop using him and make tournies a little more fun.