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MetaKnight Infinite Dimensional Cape - hope you enjoy

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Tenza

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I don't think MIDcape should be banned >_> It's extremely hard to perform let alone maintain for more than a second---not to mention a good player would be on your *** attacking you before you got the chance to start it up

This shouldn't be banned---It's not cheaply easy enough to do
 

metaXzero

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I don't think MIDcape should be banned >_> It's extremely hard to perform let alone maintain for more than a second---not to mention a good player would be on your *** attacking you before you got the chance to start it up

This shouldn't be banned---It's not cheaply easy enough to do
Its not banned for being an overpowered technique. Its banned due to the risk of MKs stalling out matches.

Though I still think the banning was too soon.

To the thread. How does this sound? In tournies, if a match goes over the round timer and the MK was using the Infinite Cape for an accumulated time of more then a set time frame ( a minute for example), they get penalized?

feedback plz.
 

ignore the fire

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this requires no advanced skill past a certain degree.
i don't mind chaingrabbing or even projectile spamming (even tho it's annoying), but this is giving MK (an already broken character) a completely unfair advantage.
(it does look pretty cool tho)
 

Tenza

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Its not banned for being an overpowered technique. Its banned due to the risk of MKs stalling out matches.

Though I still think the banning was too soon.

To the thread. How does this sound? In tournies, if a match goes over the round timer and the MK was using the Infinite Cape for an accumulated time of more then a set time frame ( a minute for example), they get penalized?

feedback plz.
I see what you're saying but still---that brings me back to what I said about it being difficult to maintain. I reeaaally wanna see someone wiggle their thumb at the speed of light for more than a minute... I personally dont find this technique to be a very good stalling technique; if anything his shuttle loop or dimension cape on the edge spam are really good for stalling. If i ever do manage to learn to use MIDcape for more than like 2 seconds I'd just use it for mindgames; disappear for a few seconds then pop out somewhere else and rush.
 

metaXzero

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I see what you're saying but still---that brings me back to what I said about it being difficult to maintain. I reeaaally wanna see someone wiggle their thumb at the speed of light for more than a minute... I personally dont find this technique to be a very good stalling technique; if anything his shuttle loop or dimension cape on the edge spam are really good for stalling. If i ever do manage to learn to use MIDcape for more than like 2 seconds I'd just use it for mindgames; disappear for a few seconds then pop out somewhere else and rush.
Some1 here said they held it over a minute (though no videos were ever produced).

Not a minute straight. An accumulation of 60 seconds throughout the match (remember it's just an example time).
 

Disfunkshunal

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If i ever do manage to learn to use MIDcape for more than like 2 seconds I'd just use it for mindgames; disappear for a few seconds then pop out somewhere else and rush.
the camera still gets closer and further depemding on how close you are to your oppnent so it might not be that useful for rushing but idk
 

Tenza

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It still would; because they wouldn't know the exact spot im coming out at---and if they try to guess and attack, it would leave them open for me to counterattack
 

gantrain05

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It still would; because they wouldn't know the exact spot im coming out at---and if they try to guess and attack, it would leave them open for me to counterattack
or they could just put up a shield whenever the camera closes in, and then your forced to either come out of the cape and not hit them, or to run away and be back in the same position, and probably have all your friends hate you for abusing such a gay tactic.
 

adumbrodeus

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Chaingrabbing and projectile spamming can be stopped/outsmarted/beaten, but to stop someone from performing their downB? Its impossible to do anything against the infi-cape since all you need do is simply perform the downB... you dont need to hit with it, and what your opponent does is of no relevence to the outcome of the situation. Its stupider than anything you can compare it with.

Also, for the record the "Im gonna be a douchebag until everyone else stops being douchebags" logic has gotta be the worst ever. If everyone had that logic then earth would just be one giant douche, full of billions of little douchebags, all of whom are unwilling to change their attitude simply because the person next to them does the same.
Which is why the technique was banned under smash back room's official ruleset.

However, for locals where it isn't banned, I don't see the logic of considering a the use of a perfectly legal move as a reason to consider somebody a douchebag. In a competitive situation, everybody should be playing to win, which means using any legal methodology to win.

So where's the connection between using a legal move and being a douchebag.

I don't think MIDcape should be banned >_> It's extremely hard to perform let alone maintain for more than a second---not to mention a good player would be on your *** attacking you before you got the chance to start it up

This shouldn't be banned---It's not cheaply easy enough to do
Ease of use is not a ban criteria.

Some1 here said they held it over a minute (though no videos were ever produced).

Not a minute straight. An accumulation of 60 seconds throughout the match (remember it's just an example time).
I've held it for two (straight), which I mentioned before. Unfortunately, I lack a video recorder, I'm sure I can show it off at any locals where it's legal though.

Regardless, ease of use is not part of the "banned for stalling" criteria.


or they could just put up a shield whenever the camera closes in, and then your forced to either come out of the cape and not hit them, or to run away and be back in the same position, and probably have all your friends hate you for abusing such a gay tactic.
uhhhh.... read the backlog, it doesn't work because MK can maintain it infinitely, and the lag for any defensive manuever can be punished. You better hope to God that you decide to do whatever defensive maneuver you're doing at the same time as MK decides to attack, because if you plan on doing it too late it doesn't matter, and if you plan on doing it too early he punishes the lag.

Regardless, infinite stalling, ease of use is not in the criteria.
 

metaXzero

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Its not banned for being an overpowered technique. Its banned due to the risk of MKs stalling out matches.

Though I still think the banning was too soon.

To the thread. How does this sound? In tournies, if a match goes over the round timer and the MK was using the Infinite Cape for an accumulated time of more then a set time frame ( a minute for example), they get penalized?

feedback plz.
..........any1?
 

finalstain

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Any tourmanent organizer that isnt a ******* will ban this tech. If he doesnt and I happen to be there, you can bet your *** Im gonna get % advantage with one attack, then immediately start infiniting and win by the "higher % wins" rule during sudden death.
 

Affinity

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As soon as people stop chaingrabbing and projectile spamming, I'll stop being a douchebag. When there are so many people who resort to using ANY tactic to win, it's best to at least be familiar with those tactics. Am I wrong?
Please don't compare chaingrabbing and projectile spamming to the IDC. The IDC is on a completely different level for reasons explained in earlier posts.

In other words if you don't do it because you don't want to be known as a douche, you are what Sirlin refers to as a "scrub". So are the people who think you're a douche for using it of course, since they're also not playing to win.
lol

Whatever you say bud.
 

metaXzero

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Not a good reason? He's completely invincible and invisible for as long as he wants to be. Are you stupid? That makes NO sense and doesn't belong in a fighting game.
I wanted a video match or something to be put in before it became banned. This was banned on the stalling alone, but I wanted to see if it was still broken even without the stalling.
 

adumbrodeus

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I wanted a video match or something to be put in before it became banned. This was banned on the stalling alone, but I wanted to see if it was still broken even without the stalling.
I already explained the only way that this ruling will get reexamined.

Then create a hard rule that removes the ability to infinitely stall with the tech, but allows it to be used as an approach. If you can get something that's workable, we'll see what we can do.

If the infinite stall was the only reason it was banned, then a rule meeds to be created with these attributes.

1. Allows for other uses to be differentiated from stalling
2. Doesn't require 24/7 presence from a judge with a stopwatch
3. Isn't a fuzzy rule (in other words, explicitly defines what is and is not acceptable).
4. Is actually effective at preventing stalling

If and ONLY if a rule is created in which those 4 criteria are met (I believe I didn't forget anything) then the ruling gets reexamined.

If not, then the tech stays banned.
So create the ruleset, please. And then it can get tournament exposure as an approach. If you can't create one that fulfills this criteria... there's no way an infinite stall can be left unbanned. Period.
 

Rh1thmz

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Um, posts 1459 and 1464 already elaborate why its epic facepalm that you're still arguing this, thank you very much.

Also, maybe you should read just some of the other hundreds of posts and see what other's opinions on this matter are, too.

Oh, and I love how you ignored the text in post 1464.
 

metaXzero

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Um, posts 1459 and 1464 already elaborate why its epic facepalm that you're still arguing this, thank you very much.

Also, maybe you should read just some of the other hundreds of posts and see what other's opinions on this matter are, too.

Oh, and I love how you ignored the text in post 1464.
I want this to be PROVEN broken as an approach. All stalling is proven broken, but as an approach, this hasn't been proven. *sigh*

Now point out whats wrong with my proposal! I'm tired right now. (wish ambrodeus would respond to it).
 

guild525

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I want this to be PROVEN broken as an approach. All stalling is proven broken, but as an approach, this hasn't been proven. *sigh*

Now point out whats wrong with my proposal! I'm tired right now. (wish ambrodeus would respond to it).
How is an invincible AND invisible approach NOT broken.
 

metaXzero

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How is an invincible AND invisible approach NOT broken.
If all MK users are going to do is IDC, come out with the attack, and repeat, they are going to run out the clock. Stalling matches is why this was banned by the SBR.

I want to see if its truly broken applied in other feasible ways.
 

guild525

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If all MK users are going to do is IDC, come out with the attack, and repeat, they are going to run out the clock. Stalling matches is why this was banned by the SBR.

I want to see if its truly broken applied in other feasible ways.
They don't have to attack out of it, they can land near the edge of the stage to prevent the lag after they appear, or they could just land plain next to you. You can't hit what you can't see, or if its invincible.
 

metaXzero

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They don't have to attack out of it, they can land near the edge of the stage to prevent the lag after they appear, or they could just land plain next to you. You can't hit what you can't see, or if its invincible.
Those aren't neccessarilly broken uses. Or specificly, they haven't been proven broken.

My previous post was about how people think using IDC, waiting for an opening and attacking, and repeating was proof that it was universally broken. That just leads to lots of matches going over the timer. The stalling problem, which is the only reason why its banned.
 

Rh1thmz

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If you're saying that you want to use it to just slightly improve the distance on the cape move, that's still and insanely broken spacing tool. Being able to, essentially, teleport to anywhere on the stage in a relatively short period of time is broken and could still be used to stall. The cape has its set distance, and it shouldn't change.
 

PaThKu

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It takes a while to get the hang of it, but should be fun to mess with people online :)
 

metaXzero

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If you're saying that you want to use it to just slightly improve the distance on the cape move, that's still and insanely broken spacing tool. Being able to, essentially, teleport to anywhere on the stage in a relatively short period of time is broken and could still be used to stall. The cape has its set distance, and it shouldn't change.
Like I said, that's not proven as a broken mechanic in competitive play. Really, this tech kinda gave a practical use for MKs Down-B. Without it, their's not much reason to use it other then maybe getting back onto the stage against a REALLY good edgeguarder.

Bottom line is stalling aside, this wasn't proven as a broken AT. Which is why I dislike its banishment.
 

adumbrodeus

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Every1 ignored it.
Breaks criteria 2.

Also has the side issue that without stopwatches the players themselves have, it's impossible to know if they're about to break the rule.


But the main issue is it's impractical, you need a number of judges about equal to the number of contestants/2 in order to make that work, which is totally impractical for tournaments, especially considering it's economically draining. Judges are intended to be spread between many matches, and deal with issues as they come up, not be present at every match for exactly this reason. No, it can't work.
 

metaXzero

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Hmm.

I'm not saying when they use IDC over a specific time, they are immediately disqualified. I'm saying if the match goes over the time limit and IDC was in use for a specific amount of time, THEN they may be disqualified.

...........How about I cut the the "specific amount of time" part and just say: If IDC was in use for matches that go over the timer, the MK may be DQed.

Feedback?
 

adumbrodeus

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Hmm.

I'm not saying when they use IDC over a specific time, they are immediately disqualified. I'm saying if the match goes over the time limit and IDC was in use for a specific amount of time, THEN they may be disqualified.

...........How about I cut the the "specific amount of time" part and just say: If IDC was in use for matches that go over the timer, the MK may be DQed.

Feedback?
May? Will or it's fuzzy.

In that case... that puts an incentive for stalling (not not infinite stalls, but you get what I mean) on the other end, a very heavy one. Worthy of discussion, I'll put some more thought into it.
 
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