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Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO
- Thread starter OverLade
- Start date
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KassandraNova
Smash Master
x_x ...okay...
I guess that kinda helped my view on the match up.
I guess that kinda helped my view on the match up.
Jem.
Smash Master
Lol doom youre awesome 
my wario advice post-columbus (saw someone was asking):
"At MLG I played Malcolm, Hunger, and Judge's Wario. The best thing to do is just space fairs and dtilts. There is pretty much nothing he can do if you're perfectly spacing them. He'll be scared and just shield, which will leads to grabs. (dthrow-nado, whatever you prefer) Anytime they're above you trying to get back just from directly above, bait the air dodge and nado. Or if you see it coming, nair if its kill percents. I think the Waft is the most dynamic part of the matchup. You can have a 40-60% lead, but if you get hit by the waft, you either got killed or took a lot of percent. So if you dodge all the wafts (particularly 2 in a standard 4-5 minute match, maybe 3) then you'll have a chance. Can't force the kill move on wario, gotta hit with a good downsmash at the right time. Or a good airdodge read with Nair. not just looking for it, have to feel it. Don't nado from the ledge into Wario, just jump over him or poke his shield with fairs/uairs from the ledge to get some room."
my wario advice post-columbus (saw someone was asking):
"At MLG I played Malcolm, Hunger, and Judge's Wario. The best thing to do is just space fairs and dtilts. There is pretty much nothing he can do if you're perfectly spacing them. He'll be scared and just shield, which will leads to grabs. (dthrow-nado, whatever you prefer) Anytime they're above you trying to get back just from directly above, bait the air dodge and nado. Or if you see it coming, nair if its kill percents. I think the Waft is the most dynamic part of the matchup. You can have a 40-60% lead, but if you get hit by the waft, you either got killed or took a lot of percent. So if you dodge all the wafts (particularly 2 in a standard 4-5 minute match, maybe 3) then you'll have a chance. Can't force the kill move on wario, gotta hit with a good downsmash at the right time. Or a good airdodge read with Nair. not just looking for it, have to feel it. Don't nado from the ledge into Wario, just jump over him or poke his shield with fairs/uairs from the ledge to get some room."
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
*ctrl + f nair*Lol doom youre awesome
my wario advice post-columbus (saw someone was asking):
"At MLG I played Malcolm, Hunger, and Judge's Wario. The best thing to do is just space fairs and dtilts. There is pretty much nothing he can do if you're perfectly spacing them. He'll be scared and just shield, which will leads to grabs. (dthrow-nado, whatever you prefer) Anytime they're above you trying to get back just from directly above, bait the air dodge and nado. Or if you see it coming, nair if its kill percents. I think the Waft is the most dynamic part of the matchup. You can have a 40-60% lead, but if you get hit by the waft, you either got killed or took a lot of percent. So if you dodge all the wafts (particularly 2 in a standard 4-5 minute match, maybe 3) then you'll have a chance. Can't force the kill move on wario, gotta hit with a good downsmash at the right time. Or a good airdodge read with Nair. not just looking for it, have to feel it. Don't nado from the ledge into Wario, just jump over him or poke his shield with fairs/uairs from the ledge to get some room."
*stamps seal of approval*
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Like I said, Wario gets wrecked ;[
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
It's probably 6:4, wouldn't say wrecked. 65:35 is a little drastic.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
5:5 means difficult for MK!
His username is M2K's first name. I think Im gonna have to go with that guy.
joakin_johnny
Smash Rookie
- Joined
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im not good at brawl yet so i read this information so very helpful really thanks for post it!
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
theunabletable
Smash Lord
^Maybe without an LGL, but with an LGL? No way it's that bad for Falco.
I'd say with MLG rules it's 60-40, and with a conservative stagelist 55-45.
I'd say with MLG rules it's 60-40, and with a conservative stagelist 55-45.
They're talking about the Wario MU =/
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaario!
Virtual Kruncher
Smash Journeyman
I'd say it's about 62.5:37.5.
>.>
<.<
>.>
<.<
Basically, I think that G&W loses to MK extremely bad, and that Wario does just a tad better. Whether that mean G&W is 7:3ish and Wario is 65:35, or G&W is 65:35 and Wario is 6:4. Either Ratio would mean some of MK's matchups probably need to be reevaluated for how bad they really are. I think 6:4 is given out too much for matchups that are probably worse.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
nah u warios are just playing flattery. its like 6-4 but more into the 5.8-4.2 range u know
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
You just made you were losing to my day old Wario ;]
It's definitely closer to 65-35 than 55-45.
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
Smash Master
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- RicardoAvocado
Sorry to interrupt your current match up discussion but I was wondering if some of you MK's could throw at the very least some number ratios info on the MK/Peach match up cause its not been done for ages. I think my write up is ok (maybe put a bit more stress on MK's Up + B, Z Drop Turnips and their Fairs having the same length) but putting a number ratio on the match up is proving tricky
Thanks in advance if anyone can chuck a couple of numbers at me
Thanks in advance if anyone can chuck a couple of numbers at me
theunabletable
Smash Lord
Oh, sorry, the last matchup that people were talking about was the Falco matchup...
Well in that case I agree with DMG
Player-4
See you in 25 years
I think MK wins 6-4 against both Wario and GW. No less.
KassandraNova
Smash Master
Um. I don't know about the Wario match up being 6-4 in mk's favor. I'd go as far as to say it's even.
But then again I have amazing Wario's in my region that I have to deal with, like krystedez, blue rogue, and hunger. xD
The midwest is full of Warios! Ahh! >_<
I started to pick up Wario, and that seemed to help me with the match-up.
I think I have the G&W match up figured out.
But then again I have amazing Wario's in my region that I have to deal with, like krystedez, blue rogue, and hunger. xD
The midwest is full of Warios! Ahh! >_<
I started to pick up Wario, and that seemed to help me with the match-up.
I think I have the G&W match up figured out.
No
Just no.
Wario definitely loses to MK. This isn't even up for debate. This discussion is now about "Ok, so how bad does Wario lose?".
G&W is in the same boat. They both clearly lose to MK, and the question now becomes quantifying the amount that they lose to him.
You don't wanna even take a peek at the Wario vs MK frame data. It's nasty.
Just no.
Wario definitely loses to MK. This isn't even up for debate. This discussion is now about "Ok, so how bad does Wario lose?".
G&W is in the same boat. They both clearly lose to MK, and the question now becomes quantifying the amount that they lose to him.
You don't wanna even take a peek at the Wario vs MK frame data. It's nasty.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
Do you know how many moves of MK COMPLETELY STUFF Wario? Do you wanna know how long it takes Wario to get airborne and attempt something? A long *** time.
Dtilt Ftilt Dsmash Usmash Utilt Upb Uair Fair Dair (I think it's barely 1 frame too slow assuming Wario is trying to airdodge as soon as possible) Jab Grab Dash Grab Pivot Grab
All of those moves from MK beat out Wario attempting to jump at the same time. Meaning if Wario tried to jump the instant MK inputted Jump and Fair, that MK would actually be able to hit Wario before Wario could airdodge or retaliate with anything.
The only moves that cannot do that are Bair (2-3 frames too slow, can't remember exactly), Down B, Side B, Fsmash, and Tornado (same boat as Dair actually IIRC). Side B and Down B thrown away, that leaves 3... only 3 moves that MK has that do not stuff Wario out when he merely tries to JUMP. I'm not even factoring in how badly MK outranges Wario.
You can look at hitboxes, frame data, and even reasonable human realm crap, mesh two characters together, and be able to determine who should win or lose. You do this with Wario and MK, and Wario loses. I could go even further, and illustrate just how bad this matchup is from a frame perspective concerning other aspects, but I shall spare that for another time.
Mark my words, Wario loses and all this hubabaloo about air mobility and baiting isn't enough to change the fact that MK has a sword, fast long reaching moves, who doesn't take crap from fat Italian Men and will f*** you up for even mentally saying his name. He's like the Thought Police if they could read your mind and could sweep in with a compact whirling destructive force of a Hurricane, Volcanic Explosion, Earthquake, Solar Flare, and Nuclear Bomb all compacted together x 1000. He's like Ron Jeremy, Lexington Steele, and Peter North together as a Swashbuckling monster that will f*** anything that moves with the sheer velocity of a Million Rhinoceros. He's like Captain Hook if he caught Peter Pan and destroyed Neverland and turned it into an Indian Casino.
I can't conjure up anymore analogies to explicitly illustrate for you just how Raw and Savagely MK takes care of business against Wario.
Dtilt Ftilt Dsmash Usmash Utilt Upb Uair Fair Dair (I think it's barely 1 frame too slow assuming Wario is trying to airdodge as soon as possible) Jab Grab Dash Grab Pivot Grab
All of those moves from MK beat out Wario attempting to jump at the same time. Meaning if Wario tried to jump the instant MK inputted Jump and Fair, that MK would actually be able to hit Wario before Wario could airdodge or retaliate with anything.
The only moves that cannot do that are Bair (2-3 frames too slow, can't remember exactly), Down B, Side B, Fsmash, and Tornado (same boat as Dair actually IIRC). Side B and Down B thrown away, that leaves 3... only 3 moves that MK has that do not stuff Wario out when he merely tries to JUMP. I'm not even factoring in how badly MK outranges Wario.
You can look at hitboxes, frame data, and even reasonable human realm crap, mesh two characters together, and be able to determine who should win or lose. You do this with Wario and MK, and Wario loses. I could go even further, and illustrate just how bad this matchup is from a frame perspective concerning other aspects, but I shall spare that for another time.
Mark my words, Wario loses and all this hubabaloo about air mobility and baiting isn't enough to change the fact that MK has a sword, fast long reaching moves, who doesn't take crap from fat Italian Men and will f*** you up for even mentally saying his name. He's like the Thought Police if they could read your mind and could sweep in with a compact whirling destructive force of a Hurricane, Volcanic Explosion, Earthquake, Solar Flare, and Nuclear Bomb all compacted together x 1000. He's like Ron Jeremy, Lexington Steele, and Peter North together as a Swashbuckling monster that will f*** anything that moves with the sheer velocity of a Million Rhinoceros. He's like Captain Hook if he caught Peter Pan and destroyed Neverland and turned it into an Indian Casino.
I can't conjure up anymore analogies to explicitly illustrate for you just how Raw and Savagely MK takes care of business against Wario.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
lmao i never said wario wins. youre just talking about frame data and i could care less to a certain extent. chill with the salt, and thank you for the huge writeup lolololololol
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
I'd be more scared of Dragonite
KassandraNova
Smash Master
O___O
Okay...DMG....maybe I'll just try harder then. x_x
Okay...DMG....maybe I'll just try harder then. x_x
Dragonite is that abomination's Creator
ぱみゅ
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Calm down man...
I really don't see MK destroying THAT bad Wario (specially if you compare it with other MUs... say, DDD). Also, you're pretty overrating the frame data...
I really don't see MK destroying THAT bad Wario (specially if you compare it with other MUs... say, DDD). Also, you're pretty overrating the frame data...
z00ted
The Assault of Laughter ﷼
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Wow, this is soooooo stupid.
Its like 70:30 MK.
Sorry, it is, Wario can barely do ANYTHING against him, and this whole thread? Garbage.
All the matchups (besides Snake, Diddy, and Marth) should be five or maybe even ten more in Metaknight's favor.
How can you sit here and argue that Metaknight vs. Wario is even.
Have you even seen a high ranked match under these circumstances?
Here watch how quickly the Wario gets punished for even trying to JUMP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mArI86gpeuI
Its like 70:30 MK.
Sorry, it is, Wario can barely do ANYTHING against him, and this whole thread? Garbage.
All the matchups (besides Snake, Diddy, and Marth) should be five or maybe even ten more in Metaknight's favor.
How can you sit here and argue that Metaknight vs. Wario is even.
Have you even seen a high ranked match under these circumstances?
Here watch how quickly the Wario gets punished for even trying to JUMP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mArI86gpeuI
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