Meta Knight Q&A Thread

[Waymas]

mk works better with tap jump or without it?

 

[lilseph]

mk works better with tap jump or without it?

Its all a matter of what your more used to. Some players play with Tap jump. Other play without.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Some people find harder performing Up-B OoS with Tap Jump Off.
I have it Off and L set for Jumps, but then again, is all matter of your self-comfort.

 

[Jem.]

i play default controls. yes, even my rumble is on lol.

I use up on the control stick to jump though. I do it in melee too and I main spacies. Pretty weird, eh?

 

[Kaffei]

Is their a topic listing MK's chain grabs? Because I can't seem to find one. And if not, could someone tell me who all is chain-grab-able by MK?

Meta Knight doesn't have any true chain grabs.

 

[Exdeath]

Meta Knight doesn't have any true chain grabs.

Air release on MK, ground release on Ness/Lucas, etc.

 

[Player-4]

Air release on MK, ground release on Ness/Lucas, etc.

The MK that's grabbed has to mash out to air break (idk why I have to keep telling the MK boards this), and those aren't CGs lol.

 

[Psycho Meta Knight]

Meta Knight doesn't have any true chain grabs.

What? I wcg a CF the other day, dthrow regrab. 4 times, all the way across Final D. Did it to an MK in MK ditto too. ...Does that mean I'm just crazy?

 

[Iota]

yes it does. MK's chain grabs really only happen when your opponent di's downward
or if you mind game your opponent

 

[Exdeath]

The MK that's grabbed has to mash out to air break (idk why I have to keep telling the MK boards this), and those aren't CGs lol.

Although mashing out can air break, an air break is guaranteed when the grabbed character's feet are off of the ground. Exceptions to this are breaking out during a pummel -- which is a guaranteed ground break, changing terrain -- which isn't really an exception of the rule as much as an exceptional circumstance, etc. Meta Knight can force an air break by pivot grabbing Meta Knight/Wario/etc. or by grabbing them over the ledge. It can't be a chain throw, but it can be a chain grab.

 

[etecoon]

MK's dthrow is more like a tech chase than a chain grab, you CAN regrab a lot of times but it's not guaranteed

 

[Exdeath]

MK's dthrow is more like a tech chase than a chain grab, you CAN regrab a lot of times but it's not guaranteed

It's called a DI Chase.

 

[Player-4]

Although mashing out can air break, an air break is guaranteed when the grabbed character's feet are off of the ground. Exceptions to this are breaking out during a pummel -- which is a guaranteed ground break, changing terrain -- which isn't really an exception of the rule as much as an exceptional circumstance, etc. Meta Knight can force an air break by pivot grabbing Meta Knight/Wario/etc. or by grabbing them over the ledge. It can't be a chain throw, but it can be a chain grab.

MK's standard grab does not pick MK's feet up off the ground though, trust me I've tested this stuff

 

[Exdeath]

MK's standard grab does not pick MK's feet up off the ground though, trust me I've tested this stuff

I specifically said "pivot grab," but it's still a grab either way.

 

[milesg2g]

MK has a Chain Grab on Ness and Lucas.


GG.

 

[earla]

what is the purpose of full hop dair/ sh dair approaches?

why would you full hop dair to punish a mk dash grab/ dash atk for eg. as opposed to like a sh fair spaced?

is it just mixups?

thanks so much!

 

[Zatchiel]

What is(/are) MK's best approach option(s)?

 

[Jem.]

Metaknight vs Metaknight, they only air release (aka, they jump backwards and you can regrab) if when they're struggling, they hit a jump command. As long as they dont hit any form of jump, they'll just be dropped where they were grabbed.

 

[RMelee]

@earla:
1) The purpose of Dair approaching is to safely approach certain opponents. When MK is Dair camping most opponents can't do anything to beat it besides wait. His Dair both outprioritizes and outranges most opponents attacks, which makes him almost undefeatable while Dair camping. However it should only be used in certain MUs like vs falco or diddy iirc.

2) From what I know its because he can sometimes grab through Fair, and since he's running at you its harder to space your Fair properly. Dair is simply more reliable than Fair against dash grabs.

@Lucas: It depends on the MU. It could be SHFair>Dtilts, Dair camping, or Ftilts.

 

[Exdeath]

Metaknight vs Metaknight, they only air release (aka, they jump backwards and you can regrab) if when they're struggling, they hit a jump command. As long as they dont hit any form of jump, they'll just be dropped where they were grabbed.

If a character's feet are off of the ground, they can only ground release during a pummel.

 

[earla]

ok, watched a set between m2k and dojo, whobo2.

questions:

1. m2k dash-rolls to edge then grabs it. is that just a faster method to grab the edge?

2. even at 10% m2k dthrows and buffer f-tilt follow ups. which DI options does buffer ftilt cover + i was told that buffer ftilt mainly works at 0%?

3. when opponent mk is below the stage, grabbing the edge then nadoing seems consistently hit .. invincibility nado? what advice do you have if you're below the stage and the opponent is using that tactic against you?

4. is retreating fair safe against another mk? if not, how do you punish them best?

5. i read nado used to be an effective way of recovering. m2k grabs edge then u-airs dojo alot of times. what other options could dojo have used to recover safely?

6. it seems as though dsmash is used as a punisher frequently. in the old guides it stated that SAVING dsmash ko moves was a key factor in the mk ditto. how have things changed?

7. how do you utilize NADO in this matchup effectively as mk has alot of options to counter it. tips on keeping the opponent stuck in nado?

8. i notice uair > dair seems like a good way to punish air dodges. if you're above another mk, what are some tips on getting down. is u-air > dair generally the best options to punish air dodges?

9. how do you punish mks ftilt best? if they're just spacing it or mixing up 1 hit then cancelling to other moves?

m2k punished dojo OVER AND OVER for recovering with nado/ airdodgeing. good set to watch.

if anyone could answer my questions, that would be fantastic. cheers

 

[JOE!]

How many hits can the nado deal within it's min/max duration, and how much damage total would that do?

And...

Same Q only for Drill rush...(and is there any frame data floating around for that move?)

 

[Kaffei]

ok, watched a set between m2k and dojo, whobo2.

questions:

1. m2k dash-rolls to edge then grabs it. is that just a faster method to grab the edge?
I'm not too sure on this one. A lot of people just run at the ledge and speed hug it, but since MK's roll is fast, it's safe to use as a "guaranteer" for the speed hug since sometimes people accidentally end up running off the ledge instead or something like that.

2. even at 10% m2k dthrows and buffer f-tilt follow ups. which DI options does buffer ftilt cover + i was told that buffer ftilt mainly works at 0%?
If they DI down and away, it should work from like 0~10%, sometimes you need to walk a tiny bit before you buffer ftilt.

3. when opponent mk is below the stage, grabbing the edge then nadoing seems consistently hit .. invincibility nado? what advice do you have if you're below the stage and the opponent is using that tactic against you?
Mew2King did this because DoJo would use a Shuttle Loop to try to loop back onto the stage. Tornado beats Shuttle Loop at Shuttle Loop's apex, and it sucks in MK easy when you do that. If you are at the bottom and they are about to Tornado, wait for their Tornado to rise a little bit, and use Dimensional Cape or an Auto snapped SL onto the ledge. It's not so much that it's an "invinci-nado", he does that so he can't get stage spiked by SL or something (I assume, Idk I can't read Mew2King's mind).

4. is retreating fair safe against another mk? if not, how do you punish them best?
All I can say is that fair is unsafe on shield.

5. i read nado used to be an effective way of recovering. m2k grabs edge then u-airs dojo alot of times. what other options could dojo have used to recover safely?
DoJo could have recovered with a glide and ended at a 45 degree angle below the ledge and uaired. Sometimes the MK will go off the ledge, and that is when you can DC onto it. If they don't get off a SL can stage spike them. Tornado is actually overrated in my opinion, since many of MK's moves can beat it.

6. it seems as though dsmash is used as a punisher frequently. in the old guides it stated that SAVING dsmash ko moves was a key factor in the mk ditto. how have things changed?
I think the most damage you get from the ditto is by juggling and edge guarding. If you watch Mew2King vs Tearbear at SuperCon 2010 (It's on my YouTube), you should notice that Mew2King gets a lot of damage off stage. Dsmash can knock them off stage and you can use this position to your advantage to try to rack up some damage. MK has a lot of kill options so staling Dsmash a little bit is not so bad.

7. how do you utilize NADO in this matchup effectively as mk has alot of options to counter it. tips on keeping the opponent stuck in nado?
If the MK is gliding at you, Nado sucks them in easily. They can't glide attack this because Glide attack doesn't have transcendent priority, so this is pretty safe. Sometimes they will pop out, but I haven't had this happen very often.

8. i notice uair > dair seems like a good way to punish air dodges. if you're above another mk, what are some tips on getting down. is u-air > dair generally the best options to punish air dodges?
If you're above another MK, you can try to hit them with a perfect frame dair (I haven't seen anyone do this except Mew2King) or jump like 1~3 times up (just enough so you're out of the other MK's Shuttle Loop range) and glide to the ledge. Then you can start planking for a little bit to reset your options. To punish their air dodges you can uair>dair or uair>falling nair or just wait for it and Shuttle Loop or something.

9. how do you punish mks ftilt best? if they're just spacing it or mixing up 1 hit then cancelling to other moves?
A lot of MK's use all 3 hits of ftilt. If they do that punish them with a grab/kill move/ftilt depending on their stage position and%. Ftilt 1 has practically no lag, i guess you could shield it and GSL OoS or something.

m2k punished dojo OVER AND OVER for recovering with nado/ airdodgeing. good set to watch.

if anyone could answer my questions, that would be fantastic. cheers

I tried to answer your questions hopefully some other people can help too

 

[lilseph]

How many hits can the nado deal within it's min/max duration, and how much damage total would that do?

And...

Same Q only for Drill rush...(and is there any frame data floating around for that move?)

I ahve had tornado do 21% a few times. As for drill rush i really only use it for stupid **** on battlefield or if i'm recovering. So i don't hit with it.

 

[Kaffei]

Nado can do 22% MAX when fresh.

 

[milesg2g]

22%'s not bad. lol

 

[Kaffei]

You will rarely ever get that though.

 

[milesg2g]

Multiple Nados can reach that though lol.

 

[Dojo]

Hard nado spam.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Nado>nado true combo imo

 

[Enzo]

Nado>nado true combo imo

The keyword here is imo... because it really isnt

 

[Luxor]

yeah it is, i checked
troll moar plz

 

[earla]

ftilt has -19 advan

how is that safe?

fairs optimal shield advan = -9. isn't that very safe?

trying to understand frame data:
DTILT
frame breakdown:
1-2 startup
3-4 hitbox out
5-15 cooldown

frame summary:
Hits on frame: 3
IASA frame: 16
Cooldown: 11
Shield hitlag differential: 0
Shield stun: 1
Shield advantage: -11
Shield drop advantage: -4

can you do a move after cooldown(11) or IASA (16) ? i was under the impression IASA would generally be less than the 'cooldown'?

im confused, reading melee frame data they have 'total' frames the move takes. is 'cooldown' the total?

 

[Luxor]

Cooldown in this case is the number of frames from when the hitbox is active to when you can act. IASA=Interruptible As Soon As=FAF= First Actionable Frame= The first frame you can do something not Dtilt.
Ftilt is not really totally safe on block, but often goes unpunished because of its range and mixups with timing hits 2 and 3 different.
Fair is pretty safe if you space it and Dtilt right after.
Why do you ask so many questions? Just go learn stuff until you know everything.

 

[JOE!]

allrighty, 22% max...what would be an average, 14ish?

(Im making a Damage per Hit anaylisis of every move...just missing data on Drill Rush now before MK is done )

 

[lilseph]

generally i get about 11 or 12% from my nados.

 

[Zatchiel]

I'm still trying to learn how to DI out of nado :/

I always mash up and away from where MK is traveling, and i don't know if that just makes matters worse.

 

[iRJi]

I'm still trying to learn how to DI out of nado :/

I always mash up and away from where MK is traveling, and i don't know if that just makes matters worse.

You DI out of it by holding up + the opposite direction the person is traveling (if they are moving). It also helps to press jump when you are trying to get out to try and footstool. People air dodge, but if you are not a real fast faller, Air dodging is one of less desirable options to use. MK's nado carries no hit stun (The hit stun is actually 1 for each hit) So SDI'ing the move is actually not possible, you can only normally DI out of it. If you get caught out of a jump, it makes it a lot harder to get out of it, and some characters actually have a very hard time of getting around nado once caught in it.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Thanks for covering that RJ! I just saw a video on it and didn't want to be the one that had to...lol

You know what always annoys me? When people think Uair combos into nado. It REALLY doesn't. Like, even without SDI. Or DI. Just airdodge and move down.

 

[-LzR-]

And punish the airdodge. You know that is how juggling works too.