Meta Knight Q&A Thread

[Gonzalo Barrios]

1. Vs. Diddy, MK's worst stages are definitely FD, SV, and Picto. Get rid of those immediately. BF is not great either. vs. Wario... Eh, I have no idea.
2. KO: good ****ing luck. Wall the ******* out and then Dsmash around 200? Doing bull**** with tires can be nice (tire->dsmash, for example) As for edgeguarding, keep him the hell away from his bike and he's easy to edgeguard; with the bike, you can get him with nair if he recovers low (which wario shouldn't), and shuttle loop is at least "safe" if he recovers high (he can't really punish it if you try to SL his bike). Just... stay between him and his bike. Seriously.

Thanks.

Question: Wario has Invincible frames when he's riding his bike? Or when he jumps out of it?

 

[Jem.]

FD is bad vs Diddy, you'd be ridiculous to go there as MK. I'd much rather take my chances with the luck of Picto to lead to pirahna/spike/mine cart combos then let Diddy control the game. Platforms help MK a lot vs Diddy.

You can drill rush edgeguard diddy from above, and it's a reliable edgeguard that can lead to gimps. Unfortunately TP Portland videos STILL aren't uploaded, so you guys probably think I'm weird.

I like BF vs Diddy and Wario. Smashville, not so much.

 

[Orion*]

FD is bad vs Diddy, you'd be ridiculous to go there as MK. I'd much rather take my chances with the luck of Picto to lead to pirahna/spike/mine cart combos then let Diddy control the game. Platforms help MK a lot vs Diddy.

You can drill rush edgeguard diddy from above, and it's a reliable edgeguard that can lead to gimps. Unfortunately TP Portland videos STILL aren't uploaded, so you guys probably think I'm weird.

I like BF vs Diddy and Wario. Smashville, not so much.

diems been doing the DRush **** on diddys since like 08 so i know its legit

i feel like FD is super momentum based but, diddy not having anything to camp under makes approaching him easier. the problem is imo when you **** up its worse

platforms dont do that much in the MU to help mk until he actually lands the hit imo, the only thing i can really think of is giving you another landing option for nado.

 

[KassandraNova]

Yeah. I always ban fd against diddy... I don't enjoy making life difficult for myself. xD
Plus I'm taking away one of diddys fav stages. :D

 

[Gonzalo Barrios]

Thanks for the advice guys, LOL for some reason my best stage against diddy is FD lol.

Smashville it's my favorite stage in every MU. (I just like it)

But RC and Brinstar/Norfair for tournaments.

QUESTION1: Best approach or Camp strategy against Olimar?

QUESTION2: Best approach or Camp strategy against Sonic? As well as Cp's and Bans.

 

[Grump]

Just curious, how many of you prefer U-smash to racking up damage and saving utilt for possible kill moves? I've heard a lot of talk about how how Usmash sucks but I don't see how unless you are trying to finish with it, which is dumb altogether o.o

 

[Gonzalo Barrios]

Just curious, how many of you prefer U-smash to racking up damage and saving utilt for possible kill moves? I've heard a lot of talk about how how Usmash sucks but I don't see how unless you are trying to finish with it, which is dumb altogether o.o

It's actually a good idea, After I test it in some friendlys I will post about how it works. Thanks for the idea.

 

[Grump]

And to answer your questions:

Best approach or Camp strategy against Olimar?
I wouldn't suggest camping this guy. Giving him time to think is the LAST thing you want to do. He's my fallback character on most occasions, more so against fellow MK's. If you're high in damage and he has a blue pikmin next, watch out for being grabbed and then his Bthrow. That thing can kill you at 120% from the center of FD. If he only has a few pikmin, try to bait an UpB (so that it won't actually reach) by flying at a 45 degree angle, then punish the whiff. Be careful about nadoing. If he just barely flies out the top his dair WILL connect and WILL hurt. Most of his pikmin projectiles are fairable, just not the purple. If you see a purple next in line, the only move you really have to fear is his dsmash (it reaches just as far as the rest of the pikmin, but still does a lot of damage).

Edit: And be careful against the yellows. You can be standing the length of his head away from you, and still connect with the Usmash. Yellows in general have killed priority, hitbox range, and damage potential. Usmash at %100 by these can kill.

 

[Gonzalo Barrios]

And to answer your questions:

Best approach or Camp strategy against Olimar?
I wouldn't suggest camping this guy. Giving him time to think is the LAST thing you want to do. He's my fallback character on most occasions, more so against fellow MK's. If you're high in damage and he has a blue pikmin next, watch out for being grabbed and then his Bthrow. That thing can kill you at 120% from the center of FD. If he only has a few pikmin, try to bait an UpB (so that it won't actually reach) by flying at a 45 degree angle, then punish the whiff. Be careful about nadoing. If he just barely flies out the top his dair WILL connect and WILL hurt. Most of his pikmin projectiles are fairable, just not the purple. If you see a purple next in line, the only move you really have to fear is his dsmash (it reaches just as far as the rest of the pikmin, but still does a lot of damage).

Edit: And be careful against the yellows. You can be standing the length of his head away from you, and still connect with the Usmash. Yellows in general have killed priority, hitbox range, and damage potential. Usmash at %100 by these can kill.

Thanks for the advice bro

By the way. Can you tell me your general strategy against Olimar? To see if I'm doing it right or thinking the right strategy.

My normal Strat:

I usually attack in a 45 degree and I bait his UP/B, aerial, and then I nado or D-Air or Air-Dodge-Land and then a D-Smash/F-Tilt or Grab.

I spam Tornado every time I got the chance and I get him off the stage every time I get the chance to. I bait alot Air dodges with Shuttle Loops/D-Airs.

I also watch out alot if he uses his UP-B with a purple Pikmin in the lead. I don't want to get dumb edge spiked at a tournament lol.

I Also try to stay in movement all the time and I'm really quickly with MK too. I stay most of the time in Air, but not right above him, so I don't get U-smashed/U-Aired.

45 Degree angle here.

All this mixed up with my "technical" MK playstyle.

You?

 

[Grump]

It depends. On the ground, I'll usually switch it up between ftilt and dtilt.

Ftilt if they like to throw, dtilt if they like to fsmash, dsmash, and grab.
I aggressively poke the entire match.
I never Uair at them because a red/purple dair can spike quite easily (the number of spikes this guy has that MK general playstyle walks into is silly). I try not to shuttle loop too much on the ground because Oli's can whistle-> usmash as a punish if the predict it.
If I want to pressure them to the edge, I SH fair (the three hits will kill all but blues and purples iirc, and the blues get stopped anyways).

And of course, use the invincibility frames of ledge grab to edgehog.

 

[earla]

what effects the success of the omnigay technique with snake in doubles.

timing? character? platforms? ports?

we've had trouble trying to omnigay gaw in particular.

 

[Staco]

what effects the success of the omnigay technique with snake in doubles.

timing? character? platforms? ports?

we've had trouble trying to omnigay gaw in particular.

the lower port gets killed

the timing is also important, because if you uthrow, but your are not outside of the blastzone while the grenade explodes (inside the blast zone while rising/falling) both characters get hit by the grenade and die

 

[Staco]

We still have methods of camping and playing gay, lol. Retreating FF fairs, dair camping, you just have to be a bit smarter about it.

The difference is that other characters also got this methods of playing gay and camping effectivly.
In germany we got some Wario player, who beat the 2nd best german player (falco) and one of the top european falcos by timing them out.

If Wario got out a tire I just try to get it and throw it away. (except for killing)
Holding a tire just limits MK and Wario instead gets a lot of good options by using it.

Edgeguarding wario:
Gimping him is hard, he can dodge through most of your stuff and end up behind you, because of his superior air speed.
If he recoverys high with his bike its almost unreachable, except you make a good read and most Warios will just instantly jump down from the bike.
If you then do an up b and you miss, he is able to punish you superhard.

USmash kills super late, leaves no room for direct follow ups, can be DIed.
Dunno, the move isn´t that good in general, I use it sometimes by misclick or as a mixup, but rarely.

Vs. Olimar:
Egdehog, then DI upwards (and stay holding up), Olimar wont kill you with his up b, even if it hits, but he will still die.
You don´t need the invincibility frames.

 

[earla]

not grenade omnigay. teams C4 omnigay mk snake.

so c4 explodes = outside of the blastzone rising or falling = successful omnigay

any tips on getting this down.

 

[Pitzer]

Well I usually tell my partner Im gonna pummel once then Upthrow so c4 right after I pummel

 

[Lokinario]

Ok, hi. I've been playing Brawl for about 2 weeks now and maining MK and ZSS. Anyway, I have two quick questions:
1- How do I glide with MK using the Wiimote alone (I know I should use a GCC, but I don't have one yet)?

2- Any tips for helping me learn how to SH consistenly?



Obrigado desde já, Lokinario.

 

[milesg2g]

Can anyone give me a quick run down on the oli MU? I looked @ the MU thread on it and they didn't really seem to know wtf to do either it seems lol

 

[skaterbaj]

^along with that question mine is kinda simple i guess..

Whats the best way to approach marth? is it best on the ground or air? especially against the ones who like to space fairs and dolphin slash alot.

 

[Orion*]

2- Any tips for helping me learn how to SH consistenly?

consistency = practice

if you have one even a classic controller (pref pro) is better than a wiimote,

convenience/ease help a lot in that department

 

[Jem.]

^along with that question mine is kinda simple i guess..

Whats the best way to approach marth? is it best on the ground or air? especially against the ones who like to space fairs and dolphin slash alot.

Walk. I play Bladewise, a high ranked Marth in the Pacific Northwest pretty much every tournament. We've been playing since 2008, and it's just keeping marth in the air and not getting grabbed. Also being very aggressive vs Marth off stage for the chance for a gimp. Dthrow nado wont always work at low percent, Bladewise does something like tech forward roll into shield and my nado doesnt even hit him when I just circled it over him during the roll.

Walk and see what happens first. Then you have to decide on your own, because sometimes theres success in the air and success in the ground. I would assume the general assumption is it'd be better on the ground, Marth only has ground options when you do something first basically. (His tilts suck, except dtilt I guess) most marths only over b if you spot dodge or roll or do something evasive.

 

[earla]

1. what setups does diddy have for his banana lock infinite?
how can a mk avoid this. do mks now have to play a different style?

2. best approaches vs a defensive snake grenade camping?

 

[Lokinario]

Another quick question:
What are good MK stage choices?

Oh, and btw, if someone can answer my first question in my other post, I'd be glad.


Obrigado desde já, Lokinario.

 

[Player-4]

Ok, hi. I've been playing Brawl for about 2 weeks now and maining MK and ZSS. Anyway, I have two quick questions:
1- How do I glide with MK using the Wiimote alone (I know I should use a GCC, but I don't have one yet)?

2- Any tips for helping me learn how to SH consistenly?



Obrigado desde já, Lokinario.

Just hold the jump button after you jump

And just tap jump lighter than normal that's pretty much it

Another quick question:
What are good MK stage choices?

Oh, and btw, if someone can answer my first question in my other post, I'd be glad.


Obrigado desde já, Lokinario.

Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar, Delfino, and Frigate are his best counter pick stages

Smashville, Battlefield, and Pokemon Stadium are his best neutrals

 

[Lokinario]

I wish it was that simple, P-4 (may I call you P-4?)
If I hold the jump button on the Wiimote, MK just keeps jumping until he runs out of jumps.

I'm starting to consider using the Nunchuck too, lol. Any chance this is actually a good idea?

Thanks for trying to answer, though.

Obrigado desde já, Lokinario.

 

[Player-4]

I wish it was that simple, P-4 (may I call you P-4?)
If I hold the jump button on the Wiimote, MK just keeps jumping until he runs out of jumps.

I'm starting to consider using the Nunchuck too, lol. Any chance this is actually a good idea?

Thanks for trying to answer, though.

Obrigado desde já, Lokinario.

Yeah use the chuck if you're gonna use the wiimote, and P4 without the dash is fine lol

Also it sounds like your jump is tapjump only, that's why he keeps jumping instead of gliding

 

[Lokinario]

Thanks for answering me... P4. :D

I have some other questions:

1- What's planking?

2- OoS?

3- Scrooging?

4- What's the definition of MUs? Is it the way you should behave when fighting X character?

5- What are counter picks?

6- I really don't see why Brinstar and Frigate Orpheon are good stage choices for MK. I mean, I can totally understand why someone would pick Rainbow Cruise or Delfino Plaza. But really, why would I pick Brinstar or FO? Oh and btw, I thought Norfair was an awesome stage for MK. Was I wrong?


@EDIT: Just for the record, anybody can answer my questions, not only P4, lol.


Obrigado desde já, Lokinario.

 

[Jem.]

Thanks for answering me... P4. :D

I have some other questions:

1- What's planking?

2- OoS?

3- Scrooging?

4- What's the definition of MUs? Is it the way you should behave when fighting X character?

5- What are counter picks?

6- I really don't see why Brinstar and Frigate Orpheon are good stage choices for MK. I mean, I can totally understand why someone would pick Rainbow Cruise or Delfino Plaza. But really, why would I pick Brinstar or FO? Oh and btw, I thought Norfair was an awesome stage for MK. Was I wrong?


@EDIT: Just for the record, anybody can answer my questions, not only P4, lol.


Obrigado desde já, Lokinario.

1. Planking is when you go below a stage and just uair and regrab the ledge, and basically stall hoping you anger the opponent into doing something dumb. it defends your lead, and pretty much no one can punish an MK planking correctly.

2. Out of State or Out of Shield.

3. Scrooging is a form of planking. I think scrooging though is defined as when you go below a stage and go to the other side of the ledge and regrab. And on a level like Delfino where you can hit and go through the moving platform, you just go under and uair and then if it hits, you keep going, if not, regrab ledge and wait for your opening.

4. Yes. Matchups determine GENERALLY how you should play it. Most Matchups have a ratio on what character should win if theoretically both players were of equal skill.

5. Counterpicks are what you said below. Going to an advantageous stage to either you personally or for your character. Like a Metaknight taking Falco to Rainbow Cruise if you lost. Counterpicking though happens for everyone that loses a match. Loser chooses stage, Winner chooses character, loser chooses character. Even if you went to Battlefield, it was still a Counterpick.

6. MK can uair through the bottom of brinstar, can get easy aerial up b kills, and the lava forces characters to approach MK when they would rather not. Frigate is good because a lot of characters have poor recoveries that Frigate takes advantage of. There is also a large duration where the right side of the stage has no ledge, making it pretty easy to kill and gimp characters that are not MK. It also has a generally consistently low ceiling, which makes grounded shuttle loop kills pretty easy. Frigate is my most used Counterpick Stage. Norfair is banned from competitive play in every region I believe.

 

[Player-4]

Yeah Frigate is really really good. I recently took a DK there and did nothing but camp under the platform and gimp him on the right side then once the stage transformed I camped the middle and he literally could not approach.

 

[Dojo]

Just be careful who you take to Frigate. Diddy/Falco/Snake can all camp the hell out of the bottom of that platform on 2nd transformation.

 

[Lokinario]

Thanks for the replys.

I'm guessing that taking to Frigate Orpheon would be bad againstcharacters with good projectiles, right?

Anyhow, I think I like Rainbow Cruise better. I'm not good enough to go Brinstar and be agressive yet, haha.

Oh, and if someone could post the banned stages list, I'd be glad.


Obrigado desde já, Lokinario.

 

[Kaffei]

I actually hate fighting Snake on Frigate
I can't see shiet

 

[Player-4]

Snake is pretty damn good on Frigate, I wouldn't take him there lol

 

[etecoon]

I also play snake and I love frigate in this MU, from both sides lol

 

[Pitzer]

I got a question. Since Mk's Nado and Side B don't stale as fast as other moves does that mean they can refresh moves better?

 

[Grump]

I didn't know those moves staled slower, where did you get this info from?

 

[Jem.]

Just be careful who you take to Frigate. Diddy/Falco/Snake can all camp the hell out of the bottom of that platform on 2nd transformation.

hahah i like all three of those matchups on frigate.. the slope also helps MK vs diddy, but if you're off stage, the angle is PERFECT to hit you with peanuts while planking. It's so ridiculous.

 

[etecoon]

tornado actually stales pretty rapidly, fresh it does an extremely large amount of damage for how much utility it has but it gets a lot weaker from there

 

[-LzR-]

All moves stale at the same rate, but yeah, nado is used often. I guess for me the most stage moves are dair and fair.

 

[Staco]

Just be careful who you take to Frigate. Diddy/Falco/Snake can all camp the hell out of the bottom of that platform on 2nd transformation.

this
espeacally because the 2nd transformation is the one, where you play most of the time on (except rarely, when the first transformation stays at the beginning for a longer time)

 

[skaterbaj]

Walk. I play Bladewise, a high ranked Marth in the Pacific Northwest pretty much every tournament. We've been playing since 2008, and it's just keeping marth in the air and not getting grabbed. Also being very aggressive vs Marth off stage for the chance for a gimp. Dthrow nado wont always work at low percent, Bladewise does something like tech forward roll into shield and my nado doesnt even hit him when I just circled it over him during the roll.

Walk and see what happens first. Then you have to decide on your own, because sometimes theres success in the air and success in the ground. I would assume the general assumption is it'd be better on the ground, Marth only has ground options when you do something first basically. (His tilts suck, except dtilt I guess) most marths only over b if you spot dodge or roll or do something evasive.

Yeah man thanks.Ha i was hoping you would respond cause ive seen some of ur vids with him. he is pretty ****.