Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Grim Tuesday]

Peach has a better match-up spread than Pit. Noticeably better.

Peach goes even with Diddy, Ice Climbers and Olimar and beats Wario along with having very few disadvantageous match-ups.

Pit loses slightly to like... everyone above him.

 

[Conviction]

Well Damn.

 

[Kink-Link5]

This is not to be confused however.

Pit's still legit.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Peach has a better match-up spread than Pit. Noticeably better.

Peach goes even with Diddy, Ice Climbers and Olimar and beats Wario along with having very few disadvantageous match-ups.

Pit loses slightly to like... everyone above him.

I think the general thought among Pit mains is that he is even with Diddy, and is pretty even with everyone above him minus 4-5 characters depending who you ask, plus wario being an actual counter. That and he might have a slight advantage on DDD (who is looking more relevant now too eh?) though that is pure theory. It's probably just even.

In any case, it puts him in a similiar spot to Peach. I'd agree Peach looks like she is better off atm but not as much as I think your arguing for.

Point being, he has a shot a being viable (more then a shot if they consider backing off on LGL limits since MK is gone)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I can see him maybe being viable, but going even with Diddy seems like a bit of a stretch. What tools does he have in the match-up that makes it so?

 

[Ripple]

I can see him maybe being viable, but going even with Diddy seems like a bit of a stretch. What tools does he have in the match-up that makes it so?

:ledge:

that's what

 

[JTsm]

Okay misguided ones.

The only game that Sakurai specifically stated he made for the competitive scene fighting games were going (at that time), was melee.

It was one person.

Also, Peach seems pretty legit except for DDD and Falco. Everybody else seems to be relatively close to even mu's (noob opinion).

 

[Kink-Link5]

Swing in the dark here, but maybe jumping Mirror Shield? 'Seems like it'd handle a lot of Diddy's main spacing options.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

:ledge:

that's what

I didn't know there was an icon for the ledge, that is cool.

Anyway, I don't see how Pit's ledge tricks protect him from Nanas. At all.

It was one person.

Also, Peach seems pretty legit except for DDD and Falco. Everybody else seems to be close to even mu's (noob opinion).

Peach goes even with DDD and only just loses to Falco. Snake and MK were her only real problems.

 

[link2702]

also of note is pit has an amazing glide toss, so if the diddy derps up and loses a banana pit can close in on him fast with the toss, and surprise him quite quickly with any move he fancys(grabs a good one.)



but most definitely his projectile and camping from the ledge, diddy will have a hard time dealing with pit while he's planking and firing arrows non-stop.

 

[Mic_128]

Okay misguided ones.

The only game that Sakurai specifically stated he made for the competitive scene fighting games were going (at that time), was melee.

Can you link this? If anything I remember him saying Melee was "a happy accident."

 

[Lenus Altair]

Anyway, I don't see how Pit's ledge tricks protect him from Nanas. At all.

Invincibility frames like with anything else? I mean, Diddy can chuck/drop bananas over the edge all he likes, but he still has to get a read for it to work. I mean, no one hear is going to argue Pits ledge game is unbeatable, and Diddy certianly is a good character it deal with it, but he far from makes it irrelevant.

Also, camping in general, glide toss/WoI pickups to make using Diddys bananas against him a factor, the potential to gimp/persue offstage, and having some solid dijoints depending on what angle Diddy comes from. Those are some immediate things anyway.

Diddy has plenty of ways to fight back too, but that's why its even. Finally Stages play a big factor and can slide it slighlty to favor one or the other.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I remember the quote people often used for Brawl was actually something he said about Melee (aka not designing it for competitive play or whatever).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Invincibility frames like with anything else? I mean, Diddy can chuck/drop bananas over the edge all he likes, but he still has to get a read for it to work. I mean, no one hear is going to argue Pits ledge game is unbeatable, and Diddy certianly is a good character it deal with it, but he far from makes it irrelevant.

Also, camping in general, glide toss/WoI pickups to make using Diddys bananas against him a factor, the potential to gimp/persue offstage, and having some solid dijoints depending on what angle Diddy comes from. Those are some immediate things anyway.

Diddy has plenty of ways to fight back too, but that's why its even. Finally Stages play a big factor and can slide it slighlty to favor one or the other.

I'm curious now, *looks up videos of the match-up*

 

[Conviction]

Can you link this? If anything I remember him saying Melee was "a happy accident."

Sure, might take a little to find the article.

 

[JTsm]

@Grim Tuesday: Yeah the only reason I say DDD is because I picked Peach and went to PS1 against Tech Chase's DDD and chain-grab ***** on the fire stage... lol. MK I can understand, but Snake can be evenish.

 

[Conviction]

"I had created Smash Bros. to be my response to how hardcore-exclusive the fighting game genre had become over the years. But why did I target it so squarely toward people well-versed in videogames, then?...doubt we’ll ever see one that’s as geared toward hardcore gamers as Melee was. Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult.”

Sadly he said brawl was the "happy medium"

Source

 

[Mikhas]

"I had created Smash Bros. to be my response to how hardcore-exclusive the fighting game genre had become over the years. But why did I target it so squarely toward people well-versed in videogames, then?...doubt we’ll ever see one that’s as geared toward hardcore gamers as Melee was. Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult.”

Sadly he said brawl was the "happy medium"

Source

Every other fighting game is more difficult than Melee and nobody seems to have much of a problem with them. I really don't think Sakurai had any intention of making any of the Smash games balanced and competitive.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

@Grim Tuesday: Yeah the only reason I say DDD is because I picked Peach and went to PS1 against Tech Chase's DDD and chain-grab ***** on the fire stage... lol. MK I can understand, but Snake can be evenish.

Everyone always gets caught in the wall infinites....its hilarious lmao.

 

[stingers]

Every other fighting game is more difficult than Melee and nobody seems to have much of a problem with them. I really don't think Sakurai had any intention of making any of the Smash games balanced and competitive.

thats definitely not true lol. melees very difficult

 

[DMG]

Depends on what you mean by that. Melee is pretty complex and technical. Look at Fox: he's like Magneto on Crack. The only game I can think of that's outright ridiculously harder than Melee is MVC2, and that's notoriously hard/technical.

 

[Conviction]

Every other fighting game is more difficult than Melee and nobody seems to have much of a problem with them. I really don't think Sakurai had any intention of making any of the Smash games balanced and competitive.

...I can't really see how you are disagreeing with me or him when Sakurai said he tried balancing it, and Melee was most hardcore of the series and he made it that way. Brawl was the "happy medium", idk where he would place 64 because he didn't mention it.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Hell yeah. I'm gonna be a ton more tournament-active now.

 

[Mikhas]

Depends on what you mean by that. Melee is pretty complex and technical. Look at Fox: he's like Magneto on Crack. The only game I can think of that's outright ridiculously harder than Melee is MVC2, and that's notoriously hard/technical.

I'm not saying they're all "ridiculously harder." In general, other fighting games are more difficult and have higher skill ceilings. Don't get me wrong, I love Melee, but it's not particularly difficult, technically. Doing combos with 1 frame links that are fairly common in other fighters are a lot harder than wavedashing or shffling.

...I can't really see how you are disagreeing with me or him when Sakurai said he tried balancing it, and Melee was most hardcore of the series and he made it that way. Brawl was the "happy medium", idk where he would place 64 because he didn't mention it.

He says that Melee was his "response to how hardcore-exclusive the fighting game genre had become," which suggests to me that he intended it to be a less hardcore fighting game. Also, when he says he tried to balance it, I am fairly certain he attempted to balance it with items on, which may or may not translate to the way the game is played under tournament rules

 

[Conviction]

I thought there were 1 frame links in Melee, I think a read that from lurking a previous Melee vs. Other fighting games discussion.

 

[Kink-Link5]

C.Viper is pretty technically demanding too. One mistake in her HJC's and her ground shake pressure turns on her head and leaves her wide open to anti-air combos

 

[Vinylic.]

I thought there were 1 frame links in Melee, I think a read that from lurking a previous Melee vs. Other fighting games discussion.

It was until this year I guess.

 

[LKratos]

Diddy has arguably a slight disadvantage to snake, wario, and peach (who will be rising in popularity now). He also have plenty of even matchups. And he doesn't have any stage counterpicks where he just undeniably dominates the rest of the cast.

Depends on what you mean by that. Melee is pretty complex and technical. Look at Fox: he's like Magneto on Crack. The only game I can think of that's outright ridiculously harder than Melee is MVC2, and that's notoriously hard/technical.

Blazblue has the highest learning curve of any fighting game I've ever played, there is BARELY a casual level blazblue. Even BnB combos have pretty strict frame execution windows.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Blazblue has the highest learning curve of any fighting game I've ever played, there is BARELY a casual level blazblue. Even BnB combos have pretty strict frame execution windows.

GG is much harder.

Say hello to 1 frame FRCs and Badlands loops.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Diddy has arguably a slight disadvantage to snake, wario, and peach (who will be rising in popularity now). He also have plenty of even matchups. And he doesn't have any stage counterpicks where he just undeniably dominates the rest of the cast.

Snake and Wario both beat Diddy or at worst go even, there is no way Diddy has the advantage >_>

 

[DMG]

Diddy has arguably slight DISadvantage to Snake Wario

AKA, he said those characters beat Diddy.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Oh, ignore me then.

My bad.

 

[link2702]

so ironic and funny that 90% of the people against the ban, are meta mains, and then they have the guts to say "he's not broken and the URC is biased" funny stuff, they're mad cuz their money maker's gone.


i really can't wait to see how this turns out, finally seeing the game progress past "learn how to beat metaknight"

 

[Player-1]

Snake Vs Diddy is 40:60
Wario Vs Diddy is IMO even, but I can see it being 45:55
Pit Vs Diddy is hard since no good pit players play good Diddy players regularly and like...they never play in tournament either. It's hard to say, but it's definitely within the 55:45 - 45:55 range.

 

[Vinylic.]

so ironic and funny that 90% of the people against the ban, are meta mains, and then they have the guts to say "he's not broken and the URC is biased" funny stuff, they're mad cuz their money maker's gone.


i really can't wait to see how this turns out, finally seeing the game progress past "learn how to beat metaknight"

We already discussed all of that.

 

[LKratos]

GG is much harder.

Say hello to 1 frame FRCs and Badlands loops.

Smooth Criminal

Oh, right, I always forget GG because it didn't even break into mainstream as much as BB did (which isn't very much).

Either way, basic to moderate difficulty techniques in those games are as hard as the hardest things to do in melee.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Diddy's also Even or better to Yoshi...

just letting you know....

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Oh, right, I always forget GG because it didn't even break into mainstream as much as BB did (which isn't very much).

Either way, basic to moderate difficulty techniques in those games are as hard as the hardest things to do in melee.

Wasn't trying to be a smartass. I was just saying that GG is much more difficult to play than BB. It's not a matter of what's popular or not.

Smooth Criminal

 

[NinjaFoxX]

i found GG easier(and funner) to pick up.

then again i mained Bridget/Baiken

 

[DMG]

Agreed. GG over BB.