Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[SaveMeJebus]

I told you to stop posting about melee when clearly you have no idea about the metagame

I do know about the game. Go to any Melee tournaments results and you will see at least one of the characters in S tier make it in the money

 

[John12346]

Jebus, I guess, but 4 characters sharing a position of dominance is fine, you know? Plenty of successful competitive games have had less characters in their top tier than Melee does. Third Strike immediately comes to mind, with Chun-Li, Yun, and Ken being the undisputed best characters, for example.
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Also, I know we drifted off the topic, but in regards to MK banned tournaments...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=313154

Yes, we have Concentrate, of course, but you all missed the fact that 3 other MK banned tournies happened this weekend:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=313159
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=313063
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=313039

Behold the results.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Thats why melee is a bad game that for the most part, isnt worth playing.

See my sig.

>_>

C'mon, Kid. Really?

I'mma laugh when Brawl devolves into the same damn characters placing in the same damn spots over and over again.

Edit: John. It hasn't even been a year yet. Simmer down.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Eon the Wolf]

PP? Armada? Chu Dat? Isai? Darkrain? HBox? Shroomed? Amsah? Axe? Hugs?

You can't just only name the people who support your point, lol.

This. Also, would it not also be correct to say Silent is among this list of non fox users? He usually places quite well (not to mention the fan base he has) and I don't recall ever seeing him fox it up...Also, Scar would be mentionable. Both are great Falcon players, and I don't recall seeing them ever play Fox. They do decently whenever they do 1v1s, and they seem to usually dominate/play well in doubles....Why they no get mention? D:

Darkrain, Hbox, shroomed, kirby kaze, Kage, AXE, Hugs,

Yep. (Also, love the Vyse pic :3)

none of these players play melee.

wtf is the point of this post?

Like they said, I think it was to point out top brawlers who play MK...which I don't think we were even discussing. The original point was he said all top melee use/used fox. We provided a list of those who did not. He countered....by asking what our list was while providing a list of top non mk users...Which I'm a lil confused as to how it's relevant to the 'melee' bit but w/e...

They have pocket MKs...? I dunno.

._.

Smooth Criminal

I think that's the best guess....

What was the point of your post? Your players don't use fox, Mine don't use MK

Like I said before...wasn't the original argument concerning your assumption that all top melee players used fox...? How did we get back to Brawl/MK/Non MK users in the top level...?

try being intelligent, seriously. try it sometime.

none of the top players I listed play fox. we were talking about melee

Yep.

It would make sense if you went back as far as this post. Also, any character in S tier is basically an MK equivalent (not just fox)

So not true. So very not true. Practically every top tier in melee still has their bad MUs, and far more even than true 'advantages'...Compare that to MK, which is your argument that they're as equally broken as him and well....it falls....short (God I love puns...)

To show that the analogy fits. Grim can showcase top melee players who didn't pick up fox; Jebus can showcase top brawl players who didn't pick up MK.

I suppose so....A few problems though;
he said the fox thing as though it was finality, fact, and/or the end all/be all final truth....which it isn't.
Secondly, the difference between fox/mk being that fox, as far as I can recall, hasn't won 50% or so of all the money by himself in the last 3 years let alone the last 6....that means that fox being used to prove 'all top players use fox' or that 'melee has a similar situation' has far less impact for it's point (let alone the lack of truth involved in those statements) than a list of all those who play/played MK as a back up choice in brawl...Even if they second(ed) and/or mained/main fox, it's not nearly as big an advantage nor a 'guarantee' as it is to be a second/main of MK...Now if you argued fox/jiggs/falco/marth together as being the same/worse than MK, then maybe you'd have truth...but 4 against 1 is unfair, so we'd have to involve uh....snake, diddy...and I forget the 4th...anyway, we'd have to bring it to a 4 by 4 character comparison, and the numbers would still show a higher % of money won for the top 4 of brawl guaranteed to the top 4 of melee, I'm willing to bet MONEY on that. Period.
The inherent flaw(s) in the argument is that the top 8 characters in the melee tier still have more even/bad MUs comparatively to MK specifically, and in some ways even to some of the top 8 brawl; that means each 'top tier', while a strong and reliable sight, has far more weaknesses and isn't as horribly 'all *** kicking' as MK and/or the brawl's top 8 by comparison....
Also, the list of non fox using melee players, even in only recent years, is far larger than the list of non MK users in brawl...at the top levels, of course....(Probably attributable to the fact that there are so many mid/low tier counters to high tier picks in melee, compared to the lacking variety of mid/low tier CPs in brawl...Ergo, larger character variety and larger non fox list)
Finally, I feel I should point out the larger variety of character selection among top non fox users compared to the character variety among top non mk users, which I mentioned in parenthesis above....

Here's the full list of people who have won money with MK in 2011.

Ripple, you can go ahead and use this to find more names if necessary.

Spoiler

Mew2King
Ally
ANTi
Seibrik
HolyNightmare
Lain
Tyrant
RedHalberd
DarkLink
Dojo
Atomsk
Jem
kismet2
Lee Martin
Gnes
SuPeRbOoM
Vinnie
Kadaj
Nairo
Sago
Zex
Havok
Dphat
KillLock
Ensis
Lee
Pwii
Umbra
Nerd
Judge
Lie
MTL
Domo
Kel
MN Moe
Shugo
Sparta Kick
Alphicans
Xaltis
Jtails
Tearbear
ADHD
Marshall
DJIskascribble
Reflex
Cheese
Magik
MeroKnight
BigLou
Hylian
Gallax
Koolaid
Sin242
Toronto Joe
Hype
Logic
Breez
Vex
Seagull
Izumi
Korn
Cura
Infinity
Mongoose
Shadow
Pelca
Neo
Bloodcross
Sync
Arty
Frank Rizzle
V3GA
M@v
Micaelis
Warioman!
d4b8
Inui
DEHF
FAE
Boxxy
EE
Spuperwolf
MetaKill
TypeX
Junebug
Xzax
Felix
Omni
jpIsCrAzY
Overswarm
H1N1
Iliad
ChKn
Tantalus
Genghis Pot
Mampam
Bassem
K9
Moe
Curlz
Sushi
Jbandrew
Gio
Bowyer
TKD
ResTy
Firefly
Kaffei
TKCK
Battou
Deap
Viviff
Dakpo
Poyo
MikeHAZE
Smurf
DRN
JMo
Stud Stallion
Blaise
Xdeath
Maki
Chaz
VICE
Facey
Fino
Nacho
NAKAT
Fonz
Sean
Clel
Crazy
Voltage
Fiji
Will_
Lethal Trilogy
DoomMachine
Afro
yoshQ
Fatboy
Mintyflesh
Gebroni
TrumpTight
MJG
Ryquaza
SSGuy
WTP
TV
Archer
Almo
Eggz
Flame
Bluez
Rayquaza07
Dawei
Fizzle
Kola
Pitzer
DLA
Mikalott
lol.
.D
Mr. L
MeekSpeedy
KoN!
KiraFlax
Panty
KingAce
69dude
Rei-Gun
Shank
Angel Lopez
Kassandra
Stroumbert
HINKAGE
Boss
Paul Wall
UltimateRazer
Sax
Culex
Bpow
Orion
Tiger
Azure_Kenny
PzO
Ori_Bro
Mar1
Billybeegood
Jard
Bizkit
Marly
ALSM
DarkShifter
Mooninite
Junk
Dis-gord
NGAMER
Chouceman
Kyokoro
Twinx
JoeST

....Oh damn....That is a large list....holy....

 

[stingers]

I used the present tense for a reason

i know esam (and nick riddle I think still as well) plays melee
and esam and nick are old school melee players lol. reflex is as well. and neo but I think most people knew that.
also dark peach....loooooooooooool

 

[Ripple]

I do know about the game. Go to any Melee tournaments results and you will see at least one of the characters in S tier make it in the money

wow, 1 of the 4 characters out of 25 in S tier made money. clearly, all of them overcentralize the metagame because of this fact.

stuff.

I was at this this weekend. it was a school event but for money nontheless

it went

1. chewyy $36
2. eagle eye $24
3. Ripple $15

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Jebus, I guess, but 4 characters sharing a position of dominance is fine, you know? Plenty of successful competitive games have had less characters in their top tier than Melee does. Third Strike immediately comes to mind, with Chun-Li, Yun, and Ken being the undisputed best characters, for example.
.
.
.
Also, I know we drifted off the topic, but in regards to MK banned tournaments...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=313154

Yes, we have Concentrate, of course, but you all missed the fact that 3 other MK banned tournies happened this weekend:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=313159
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=313063
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=313039

Behold the results.

What about Apex, the MLGs and SIIS6?

@Ripple, S tier makes More than 50% of the money. The same or more money than in brawl

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

@Grim: I meant the Eldin comment, not the Flossing one. Flossing ftw.
@Kid: depending on who you ask, MK is either in his own tier or simply the best in a tier with several other characters. Japan makes a good case for him having a neutral or worse matchup, as does europe. Just sayin'.

 

[Ripple]

@Ripple, S tier makes More than 50% of the money. The same or more money than brawl

so? what's you point?

1 character doesn't equal 4-5 since marths typically win money also

 

[SaveMeJebus]

so? what's you point?

1 character doesn't equal 4-5 since marths typically win money also

S tiers=S tiers. Doesn't really matter how many there are. You ban one, you should ban them all.

A tiers also win money in Brawl

 

[-Googs]

oh my god jebus please SHUT UP

 

[Ripple]

S tiers=S tiers. Doesn't really matter how many there are. You ban one, you should ban them all.

A tiers also win money in Brawl

1. you're ****ing stupid if your going to say S tier in 1 game in S tier in another and there is no difference.

2. we banned all S tier in brawl.

3. STOP POSTING

 

[SaveMeJebus]

1. you're ****ing stupid if your going to say S tier in 1 game in S tier in another.

2. we banned all S tier in brawl.

3. STOP POSTING

Why? just because one only has one and other other has four? If they overcentralize the game (which according to you guys, they do), then they should be banned

 

[Cassio]

I don't advocate item play because I don't like the level of randomness it adds to the game, what does that have to do with LGLs?

I do think Bridge of Eldin should be legal (along with the majority of stages + FLoSSing) but I still don't understand the point you are trying to make here.

By removing items you've created the necessity for lgls, and yet complain about the lgls existence.

You complain about meta knights ability to abuse the current ruleset, yet removed the balancing tools inherently existent in the game and complain about attempts to fix the resulting imbalance.

Essentially you and those I described (inclusive of most of the URC) force the MK monster into existance, and then ask for him to be banned. Given two valid options you found the most ridiculous and nonsensical third option. If that isnt the perfect example of stupidity then no such example exists.

 

[Eon the Wolf]

So wait jebus...you're arguing that if we should ban one character who does UNNATURALLY WELL....we should ban any character that makes money....?



What. -.-

 

[Ripple]

Why? just because one only has one and other other has four? If they overcentralize the game (which according to you guys, they do), then they should be banned

they don't overcentralize the game. YOU, AND ONLY YOU, said they did.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

they don't overcentralize the game. YOU, AND ONLY YOU, said they did.

How don't they overcentralize the game? They get used more than any other character in any other tier combined and they make more than half of the money

@Eon The Wolf, I'm not saying that. It's just what I've seen and read

 

[Battousai780]

Just in Louisiana and Texas alone (where there are some pretty ****ing good people), MK is in no way dominant in terms of winning money or character usage %.

 

[Eon the Wolf]

What?! The highest placing characters get the most money?! YOU DON'T SAY! STOP THE PRESSES! THIS MUST BE REPORTED ON!
----
Jebus - You said 'you ban one, you ban all'. You're the only one who said that. I haven't seen ANYONE else argue that.
-----------
Also, FYI....None of the characters in A/S in melee do as well solo as MK does...So your argument is flawed by saying all of S is equally borked, nor does arguing that 'a is borked cause it earns money too' help....

EDIT - or to put it simply....EACH CHARACTER, SOLO, EARNS A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN YOU'D EXPECT, ERGO MORE CHARACTERS HAVE A 'NOTABLE WIN %'...Compare that to brawl's 'top 8 have 9000000000000% of all wealth' <---(Warning, exaggeration. IIRC, it's something like 70-80%....right?), and you can see far more characters in melee win a notable % of all money compared to brawl....

 

[Ripple]

How don't they overcentralize the game? They get used more than any other character in any other tier, combined and they make more than half of the money

because they have even match ups outside of S tier.

marth against fox

peach against falco

Samus against the spacies.

falcon against Jiggs

ICS actually beat Sheik

YL! against Jiggs

 

[SaveMeJebus]

What?! The highest placing characters get the most money?! YOU DON'T SAY! STOP THE PRESSES! THIS MUST BE REPORTED ON!
----
Jebus - You said 'you ban one, you ban all'. You're the only one who said that. I haven't seen ANYONE else argue that.
-----------
Also, FYI....None of the characters in A/S in melee do as well solo as MK does...So your argument is flawed by saying all of S is equally borked, nor does arguing that 'a is borked cause it earns money too' help....

In the same tier. If you ban one character, you should ban them all. It's not something new other games do this

 

[Eon the Wolf]

Ripple - True. Also, YL for melee president.

EDIT - Okay so let me get this straight...you argue 'if you ban one S, you ban them all'. Yes? The next post, you said thats 'not what you said, it's what you've heard and seen'. Now you're arguing that it IS what you believe/say....? MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MIND.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

because they have even match ups outside of S tier.

marth against fox

peach against falco

Samus against the spacies.

falcon against Jiggs

ICS actually beat Sheik

YL! against Jiggs

MK has Fox

 

[Eon the Wolf]

MK has Fox

I've never heard of fox being a MK counterpick, nor have I seen any foxes beat MK at the high level tournaments. Find me a link, and I'll concede/watch it...

 

[Ripple]

In the same tier. If you ban one character, you should ban them all. It's not something new other games do this

name 1 other fighting game that did that

I can think of 1 and it took 3 years for them to ban the only other in that tier

 

[Battousai780]

As someone that played Melee for at least 3 years before Brawl and continues to do so on a regular basis in addition to playing Brawl:

There is so much more character diversity in Melee. Brawl is so polarized about which characters are good. Literally if you don't pick a top tier, you cannot win. Contrast this with Melee where alot of mid tiers can ****ing ****.

 

[Ripple]

As someone that played Melee for at least 3 years before Brawl and continues to do so on a regular basis in addition to playing Brawl:

There is so much more character diversity in Melee. Brawl is so polarized about which characters are good. Literally if you don't pick a top tier, you cannot win. Contrast this with Melee where alot of mid tiers can ****ing ****.

we got a scorpion master fan here?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

name 1 other fighting game that did that

I can think of 1 and it took 3 years for them to ban the only other in that tier

I never said fighting games http://www.smogon.com/rb/tiers/uber

 

[Battousai780]

we got a scorpion master fan here?

Iunno what you mean xD

But that guy you're arguing with said, "MK has Fox."

I don't think anyone should take him seriously anymore, lol, as he clearly knows very little about Brawl.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Iunno what you mean xD

But that guy you're arguing with said, "MK has Fox."

I don't think anyone should take him seriously anymore, lol, as he clearly knows very little about Brawl.

Wait until the videos from E4 Champion come out. Tyrant vs TKD or just watch any Tyrant vs TKD vids out there

 

[stingers]

Wait until the videos from E4 Champion come out. Tyrant vs TKD or just watch any Tyrant vs TKD vid out there

correlation =/= causation

maybe tyrant hasnt practiced in awhile cuz his main was banned
maybe tyrant was having a bad day
maybe tyrant was high as **** and couldn't tell where his character was

idk **** happens dude

not johning for the guy but you can't use 1 set as evidence that fox beats MK lol

 

[Battousai780]

Wait until the videos from E4 Champion come out. Tyrant vs TKD or just watch any Tyrant vs TKD vid out there

I'm going to be completely honest with you and tell you that I saw Tyrant lose to Zeton's fox at WHOBO 3. With that said, a few videos and those matches change nothing about the fact that Metaknight destroys fox. I play Metaknight. Fox has no chance. xDD

 

[SaveMeJebus]

correlation =/= causation

maybe tyrant hasnt practiced in awhile cuz his main was banned
maybe tyrant was having a bad day
maybe tyrant was high as **** and couldn't tell where his character was

idk **** happens dude

not johning for the guy but you can't use 1 set as evidence that fox beats MK lol

He doesn't beat him but it is an even MU. Also Yui vs any Japanese MK

 

[Ripple]

pokemon aren't banned, they are put into a different division. nice try. OU is typical but Ubers allows for anything.

and japan isn't NA.

their metagame isn't ours

 

[SaveMeJebus]

pokemon aren't banned, they are put into a different division. nice try. OU is typical but Ubers allows for anything.

and japan isn't NA.

their metagame isn't ours

MK is basically Uber (in the fact that he is banned) and any tournament that allows MK is basically an Ubers Tournament.
Japan plays Brawl and we play Brawl. We can do anything they can do and the MUs are the same as ours

 

[Battousai780]

Someone needs to learn the concept of what a "metagame" is.

 

[John12346]

And again, we come back to the issue that Japan's MKs do not play as ******y as NA MKs, to which you(Jebus) could only find ONE set out of the hundreds of videos of Japanese gameplay where a Japan MK actually did such a thing.

I need not remind you that "showing that you're the best" takes priority over "playing to win" in a metagame without prizes for money(outside of the really big tournies, if memory serves).

 

[Ripple]

MK is basically Uber (in the fact that he is banned) and any tournament that allows MK is basically an Ubers Tournament.

and you're stating the obvious because why?

Ubers (with MK) used to be our standard, now its OU (MK banned)


and now you aren't even disagreeing with me that pokemon aren't even banned

 

[SaveMeJebus]

And again, we come back to the issue that Japan's MKs do not play as ******y as NA MKs, to which you(Jebus) could only find ONE set out of the hundreds of videos of Japanese gameplay where a Japan MK actually did such a thing.

And if I bring up TKD, you guys find an excuse for that

 

[SaveMeJebus]

and you're stating the obvious because why?

Ubers (with MK) used to be our standard, now its OU (MK banned)


and now you aren't even disagreeing with me that pokemon aren't even banned

But you guys put him in that tier. He doesn't deserve to be banned anymore than Melee's S tier deserves to be banned

EDIT: Sorry for the double post