Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Dr. Tuen]

These are interesting statistics but what are they for?

They are testing for MK departing from the rest of the cast with respect to certain metrics. With the popularity metric, a significant result would imply over-centralizing behavior. With the top 8 frequency metric, a significant result would imply overpowered behavior.

None of these tests can produce a result of "ban" or "don't ban". They can only provide information about the trends seen in the smash community. That information can then be used to make decisions (and some of my previous work has been utilized to an extent).

 

[Raziek]

Cool. Looking forward to further analysis, Tuen.

 

[Eddie G]

Why do people keep acting like MK being banned will make Peach way better? Peach gets beaten pretty easily by Falco and Snake, and Snake at least is probably gonna be PRETTY popular now. I assume Falco will, too.

Because she will be. Falco doesn't even really molest Peach all that much, only Snake does because of his sheer survivability and damage output. Some characters have to adjust the way they play (especially to decrease some of their general bread-and-butter strengths), such as Pikachu when he's fighting against Peach (ESAM can vouch for this kind of adaptation I'm sure), in order to produce more fruitful results against a certain matchup that is usually considered by the majority to be of the "shutdown" variety. Trust me when I tell you this, Peach can fight Falco pretty effectively, given a simple style adjustment. Snake will be her only true trouble matchup in the near future, granted he doesn't already get eliminated in bracket by his more difficult matchups that will be popping up more often now. Maining a single character will now be a beautiful system of "pick your poison" if you don't decide to learn another character to cover their bad matchups (or if you aren't amazing enough with your character to close the gap anyway), honestly.

 

[DMG]

Don't forget Marth. He's a soft counter to her.

Marth alone could keep her down imo.

 

[Eddie G]

Soft counter, yes.

But in my honest opinion, both of the aforementioned matchups are generally more difficult for her than Marth is. At the very least, she can sort of compete with his zoning and edgeguard him rather well. That could just be my bias speaking for me since I tend to like fighting Marth though, lol. You might be right though considering the possibility of more new Marth mains coming into play than the other two.

 

[Nike.]

Joining the purple name party.

Hey I haven't posted here yet.

I support MK ban lol.

 

[Eddie G]

Yay go purple names.

Nike you know I've begun to take up the sword as well right? I should have some vids being uploaded from SiiS soon, would you mind giving me some criticism when they are?

 

[NinjaFoxX]

yes, but do you support Ponies in Smash?

 

[Nike.]

What color marth do you use?

 

[Eddie G]

Black/Gold.

 

[Nike.]

Okay, sounds good
Just making sure you dont use green or the shaya white.
What happened to peach?

 

[Eddie G]

Eh, a couple months back I finally hit my breaking point with her after being filtered out of brackets early by MK, no matter how much I practiced that matchup. Enough was enough.

But since he's gone, I'll definitely be in the lab with her again for some matchups. Going to keep her as a sub, but I'll be playing more Marth in general.

 

[Espy Rose]

Sonic's in the same boat as Peach.
Lucario becomes his only real problem match up, and Lucario has other problems to worry about, like Dedede, Snake, and Olimar.

Feels good.

 

[Ripple]

shouldn't the title of the thread be.

"MK is officially optionally banned until Apex"?

and Mc-killa ruining the purple party name. espy counts as one

 

[Mikhas]

For starters, I said one of the most technical, it is an important distinction to make.

I main one of the hardest characters timing wise in both Blaz Blue and Melee (Carl and ICs) and I consider the two games to be of pretty similar technicality, though Melee certainly feels faster...

Of course, I could be wrong, lets look at two other fighting games I play. Melee is more technical than SF4 and 3S.

Oh, also MvC3, oh hey, Melee is more technical.

Well, actually you said "Melee is one of the hardest fighting games ever created." While Melee may require more button presses than most other fighting games, it doesn't require the precision, timing, or planning that most others do. In Melee, the control scheme is much more simplified and you can mash buttons without any penalty. Melee has much more hit stun than traditional fighters as well, making combos much easier. Melee also doesn't have a meter to manage or (correct me if I'm wrong) option selects.

I think it's a little silly to argue this point. It really doesn't matter if Melee is difficult or not. The fact is Melee is fun and competitive; it doesn't need anything else.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

i dont like parties im not apart of </3

 

[Black Mantis]

Well, actually you said "Melee is one of the hardest fighting games ever created." While Melee may require more button presses than most other fighting games, it doesn't require the precision, timing, or planning that most others do. In Melee, the control scheme is much more simplified and you can mash buttons without any penalty. Melee has much more hit stun than traditional fighters as well, making combos much easier. Melee
also doesn't have a meter to manage or (correct me if I'm wrong) option selects.


I think it's a little silly to argue this
point. It really doesn't matter if Melee is
difficult or not. The fact is Melee is fun
and competitive; it doesn't need
anything else.

This^^^^^^^^^^^

Melee is not the greatest or hardest fighting game ever made.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

^nope. but its pretty close.

 

[Nike.]

I actually think the title should be changed to "URC Officially Bans Metaknight." The current one makes it look like the community in general has banned him, which isn't the case. It's kind of contradictory when they pull the "Only URC has banned him, you can still host with whatever rules you want" card.

 

[Espy Rose]

Well, 75% of the community voted for the ban, so saying the community in general has banned him isn't a stretch from the truth.
...So I reckon it kinda IS the case that the community banned him. They definitely contributed.

 

[Black Mantis]

Well, 75% of the community voted for the ban, so saying the community in general has banned him isn't a stretch from the truth.
...So I reckon it kinda IS the case that the community banned him. They definitely contributed.

Cosigning with this.

 

[Mikhas]

I actually think the title should be changed to "URC Officially Bans Metaknight." The current one makes it look like the community in general has banned him, which isn't the case. It's kind of contradictory when they pull the "Only URC has banned him, you can still host with whatever rules you want" card.

I agree with the ban, but this is very sensible.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Still going to try out 12 minute two stock Dave's Stupid (Character) Rule and see how it goes when I get a chance.

 

[Tommy_G]

Now you're dipping into dumb dumb land

Like for real you might as well just stay home and not even post anymore.

Thanks for trolling me.

I appreciate it.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

This is largely fair, and most players support the ban.

I'm sure some will miss the knight's legacy.

For some people, like Ganon mains, will tremble and cry when they remember their merciless torment at the hands of MK.

 

[Johnknight1]

Well, 75% of the community voted for the ban, so saying the community in general has banned him isn't a stretch from the truth.
...So I reckon it kinda IS the case that the community banned him. They definitely contributed.

LOL, I say we ban Final Destination. So.... 0.001% of the competitive Brawl community wants to ban Final Destination. YEAH!



Edit: No really, the URC is only as strong as TOs make them.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I think there should be a name for "Godwin's Law of Troll accusations," only we can't call it that because the Nazi's already have that one.

We can call it "Tommy's Law"

 

[Nike.]

^^^^^ wtf?

 

[Kink-Link5]

Something screwy is happening with my posts.

Something about Godwin's law being about Nazi's, so "Tommy's Law" would be about troll accusations.

I wonder if this will post 3 times.

 

[Kink-Link5]

And "^^^^^ wtf?" as a post hardly warrants it's own existence. Because of this, I can only assume you are trolling.


This post is an example of metahumour, and the fact that this post, as well as this sentence, is self-reflexive only helps to establish that fact.

 

[Nike.]

EDIT: The thread title is kind of misleading though

 

[deepseadiva]

I actually think the title should be changed to "URC Officially Bans Metaknight." The current one makes it look like the community in general has banned him, which isn't the case. It's kind of contradictory when they pull the "Only URC has banned him, you can still host with whatever rules you want" card.

Alpha Zealot, thirding this. Even the word choice of "official" is debatable, isn't? Is there genuine authority there?

 

[Vinylic.]

I'm going to request a lock on this.

If anyone wants to do the same, please do it now.

 

[Johnknight1]

I vote we have a thread on the subject of banning Snake or Diddy Kong. The reason I say that is because if this rule stays for quite an extended period of time, popular support continues to back it, and banning of various things (stages, further banning of "X" amount of how often you can use an attack, banning legitimate chain grabs like Wobbling in Melee, and banning of things to make bottom tier characters more viable) happens more frequently, it is highly likely a noticeable amount of players will want them to be banned, and any top tier character, really.

 

[Ripple]

I vote we have a thread on the subject of banning Snake or Diddy Kong, because if this stays, and banning of various things happens more frequently, it is highly likely a noticeable amount of players will want them to be banned, and any top tier character, really.

no one who is competent would even consider banning other characters.

 

[Vinylic.]

Well what do you see now? Does it have anything discussional about it?

Because the last three pages sure as hell don't look like it does.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

i think 100 pages is more than enough discussion of this...

 

[GigaBowserXyZ]

i think 100 pages is more than enough discussion of this...

well you could've mentioned that about... 167 pages before. :V

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

well you could've mentioned that about... 167 pages before. :V

Not really. If you set it to 40 messages per page, it'd be at page 100.

 

[Johnknight1]

no one who is competent would even consider banning other characters.

Yes, but when has competence been a part of this debate=??? Plus it's all about escalation.

First you ban stages. Sure, most of them deserve to be banned. Then you ban some questionable stages. PictoChat, Norfair, sure. We all hate planking, for obvious reason, so it's banned. Now, you're appealing to the masses. They want They hate camping and stalling so there are rules to stop it (of which actually helps Meta Knight). Then, they place edge grab limits, and other limits (which actually helps Meta Knight). The community then starts hating Meta Knight. Then they fix it to where the limits are less friendly to Meta Knight. Then, they ban Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes, etc. Now, the mass wants Meta Knight banned. And whaddaya know, they ban it.

See what I mean... bans have become an acceptable way of dealing with everything we don't like. The fact that in Brawl we need edge grab limits, we have such an outcry to ban every non-neutral stage, and that we have so much anti-everything. I think it really shows some immaturity in some parts of the community, and unwillingness to learn how to not suck.

Well what do you see now? Does it have anything discussional about it?

I just hope this doesn't start a vicious cycle, and that the stage list isn't condense to all neutral and flat stages. I don't want to attend tournaments with only FD, BF, and Smashville. That would make me sleepy.

Currently there are tons of people calling for EVERY counter-pick stage to be banned. Rainbow Cruise (because of Meta Knight, which is now not a concern), Delfino Plaza, Castle Siege, PS2, PS1 (I'm not kidding!), Brinstar, etc. A lot of these people aren't using reasons like glitches, frame rate issues, character imbalances (like what happens to Olimar, which rules should be made for to assist him), or a stage being broken. A lot people just want any stage that isn't neutral banned. Apparently being good at counter-picking and counter-pick stages is irrelevant to a vast amount of smashers.