Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Judo777]

But seriously, I am always right.


Joshu I miss you. I also miss the kishes. I miss the entire ship of fools.

Except that time we argued about HA stalling being stopped by spotdodge........................... lol

 

[Ripple]

Yes, but when has competence been a part of this debate=??? Plus it's all about escalation.

First you ban stages. Sure, most of them deserve to be banned. Then you ban some questionable stages. PictoChat, Norfair, sure. We all hate planking, for obvious reason, so it's banned. Now, you're appealing to the masses. They want They hate camping and stalling so there are rules to stop it (of which actually helps Meta Knight). Then, they place edge grab limits, and other limits (which actually helps Meta Knight). The community then starts hating Meta Knight. Then they fix it to where the limits are less friendly to Meta Knight. Then, they ban Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes, etc. Now, the mass wants Meta Knight banned. And whaddaya know, they ban it.

See what I mean... bans have become an acceptable way of dealing with everything we don't like. The fact that in Brawl we need edge grab limits, we have such an outcry to ban every non-neutral stage, and that we have so much anti-everything. I think it really shows some immaturity in some parts of the community, and unwillingness to learn how to not suck.

no one and I mean no one has ever suggested banning every non neutral stage. lot's of people find CP stages acceptable except for RC/brinstar and that was because of MK.

most people had a problem with MK which is why all of this started. not because we banned other things first and then we banned MK.

I just hope this doesn't start a vicious cycle, and that the stage list isn't condense to all neutral and flat stages. I don't want to attend tournaments with only FD, BF, and Smashville. That would make me sleepy.

Currently there are tons of people calling for EVERY counter-pick stage to be banned. Rainbow Cruise (because of Meta Knight, which is now not a concern), Delfino Plaza, Castle Siege, PS2, PS1 (I'm not kidding!), Brinstar, etc. A lot of these people aren't using reasons like glitches, frame rate issues, character imbalances (like what happens to Olimar, which rules should be made for to assist him), or a stage being broken. A lot people just want any stage that isn't neutral banned. Apparently being good at counter-picking and counter-pick stages is irrelevant to a vast amount of smashers.

not true at all.

 

[Krystedez]

"MK is officially optionally banned for TOs using Unity Ruleset until Apex and thereafter will be officially banned for TOs using Unity Ruleset"

 

[Tommy_G]

^^^^^

Then no TOs uses Unity after Apex.

lolz

 

[Johnknight1]

no one and I mean no one has ever suggested banning every non neutral stage. lot's of people find CP stages acceptable except for RC/brinstar and that was because of MK.

most people had a problem with MK which is why all of this started. not because we banned other things first and then we banned MK.

I've read calls for the banning of every non-neutral stage on this thread, other Smash Boards threads, and on All is Brawl. So yes, they are true. I've heard some people ask for stages that aren't totally broken but are kinda broken in Brawl to be unbanned, sure. But the amount of people calling for all these stages to be banned is inconceivable.

I also can't believe people still want Rainbow Cruise banned with Meta Knight banned. That's absolutely ridiculous, and really kills my counter with Toon Link (some of these same people also want Delfino Plaza banned, which would further kill TL's counters on top of Norfairs' previous ban).

I used to be anti-Meta Knight, but everyone needs to stop acting like he's invincible. Invincible is Isai in Smash 64 (without camping; sorry Superboom). I want to see what the game looks like without Meta Knight, but certainly there still needs to be Meta Knight-legal tournaments. I think this pretty much entirely because I am a curious about how it will turn out,but I don't want bans to be a permanent habit. Brawl kids need to learn you can't just cry and whine because someone beats you or you suck at something.

 

[Tommy_G]

I love playing with Isai in Smash 64. He always uses new tricks and gets his team combos really on point. (Falcon punching someone from the top platform in Hyrule after Kirby Fthrow-ed them)

He's not unbeatable....but he's still damn good.

and he has a better win/loss ratio than the top MKs.

 

[Ripple]

isai IS unbeatable in 64. this shouldn't be debatable.

he does 2v1s and STILL WINS

 

[Tommy_G]

isai IS unbeatable in 64. this shouldn't be debatable.

he does 2v1s and STILL WINS

Not against people who know how to play the game.

He destroys people who like to run in and just attack...which is clearly the wrong way of playing that game.

 

[Neon!]

comparing a players success in one game to a characters success in another? Shameful

Isai has proved many times that he is simply on a higher level than anyone else who plays 64.

 

[fkacyan]

The p-value helps determine if something is statistically "different" (in this case, is MK "different" from the rest of the cast). If you have a value close to 1, it means the two things you are looking at are indistinguishable from one another. If the value is close to 0, the two are "statistically significant" or "really really different". And once things become significant, it's usually easy to tell how they are significant (we know MK differing significantly would be him being over the rest of the cast, not under).

Hope that help!

Bad Tuen! Bad!

You can never conclude anything from a statistical test. You can only confirm that it is incorrect, or not incorrect.

 

[Ripple]

Not against people who know how to play the game.

He destroys people who like to run in and just attack...which is clearly the wrong way of playing that game.

clearly you don't know non-sandbagging isai.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Isai needs more nerfs than MK will ever hope to have.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Bad Tuen! Bad!

You can never conclude anything from a statistical test. You can only confirm that it is incorrect, or not incorrect.

Haha, that's true. Though you should see how many scientific papers treat it as proof. I may have just gotten used to that >.>

 

[erbanez]

I completely approve of this banning.

 

[Tommy_G]

clearly you don't know non-sandbagging isai.

I've played non-sandbagging Isai.

 

[ruhtraeel]

Our Dan does pretty damn good against Isai... He's good at all 3 games... but he refused to friendly me because he saw me playing Roy.

LOL MK ban

Maybe I should actually try and get good at Brawl again

Wolf/Ike ftw/ftl

 

[foshio]

Haha, that's true. Though you should see how many scientific papers treat it as proof. I may have just gotten used to that >.>

WHAAAAAAAAAATTT!!!!!!! Could you point me to such scientific papers?

 

[Black Mantis]

Isai needs more nerfs than MK will ever hope to have.

This is signature worthy. Like really

 

[Elite Cowdung]

This is signature worthy. Like really

no its not

 

[Elite Cowdung]

Our Dan does pretty damn good against Isai... He's good at all 3 games... but he refused to friendly me because he saw me playing Roy.

LOL MK ban

Maybe I should actually try and get good at Brawl again

Wolf/Ike ftw/ftl

ike is bad

 

[John12346]

Haha, look at what got coverage on BiTF:

Spoiler

 

[Thino]

They are testing for MK departing from the rest of the cast with respect to certain metrics. With the popularity metric, a significant result would imply over-centralizing behavior. With the top 8 frequency metric, a significant result would imply overpowered behavior.

None of these tests can produce a result of "ban" or "don't ban". They can only provide information about the trends seen in the smash community. That information can then be used to make decisions (and some of my previous work has been utilized to an extent).

What are you planning on doing after January 19th though? Do you plan on collecting data from both URC Ruleset and non-URC Ruleset tournaments? or just one of those 2?

 

[Pachinkosam]

Haha, look at what got coverage on BiTF:

Spoiler

so thats what happen LOL:o

 

[Flayl]

Don't know if this has been posted yet but "for the ban" lost the supermajority among the top 100 on Rajam's list:

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=125453

he hasn't updated the count below for some reason, but at the time I'm posting this there are 34 against the ban.

 

[Pachinkosam]

Don't know if this has been posted yet but "for the ban" lost the supermajority among the top 100 on Rajam's list:

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=125453

he hasn't updated the count below for some reason, but at the time I'm posting this there are 34 against the ban.

meta knight is just a character they need to ban olimar wes sucks am just saying the true well set u free

 

[Ghostbone]

Don't know if this has been posted yet but "for the ban" lost the supermajority among the top 100 on Rajam's list:

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=125453

he hasn't updated the count below for some reason, but at the time I'm posting this there are 34 against the ban.

Hmm, that's interesting.

 

[Raziek]

Now how many of the "against" pile play MK?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

An awful lot from my quick glance.

 

[Raziek]

Perhaps it's no coincidence that quite a few of the top players who use MK voted against the ban...

 

[Flayl]

That's bad logic. You could also say (and unfortunately with how scrubby the brawl community is it's probably true) that there are non-MK players that voted for the ban simply because it favors their character.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It is times like these where it feels good to be a pro-ban Meta Knight main.

Cause I can go "Hah! Not every pro-banner is biased!"

 

[Thino]

Don't know if this has been posted yet but "for the ban" lost the supermajority among the top 100 on Rajam's list:

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=125453

he hasn't updated the count below for some reason, but at the time I'm posting this there are 34 against the ban.

my question is.. would the outcome of this poll, assuming that for some reason anti-bans would get the majority, have any kind of effect on the decision taken by the URC?

 

[BlueXenon]

I think it's better to make different rules only for MK matches, then to ban MK. If you ban MK then you are going to lose some of the best brawl players.
My Idea:
MK matches are 9 minutes, person who isnt using MK gets 60 ledge grabs, brinstar is banned.

 

[Hippieslayer]

About the lost majority

Who cares, its a natural reaction, happens all the time in politics because people are gay

 

[DMG]

That's bad logic. You could also say (and unfortunately with how scrubby the brawl community is it's probably true) that there are non-MK players that voted for the ban simply because it favors their character.

The real question is how many people flopped on their "original" stance when polled? Cause I have no doubt that people are not answering that exactly as they did in the original poll. (Inui for example iirc was pro ban for a stretch of time, and switched after MK was actually banned.)

The other thing is people who are voting now that didn't vote before. Not everyone on the top 100 voted when originally asked. You already have more votes in the AiB blog than what Delux got. If he's wrong simply because more people decided to vote this time around, that's not really his fault.

 

[Flayl]

Yeah I said the same thing to Jebus myself.

Flopping on a poll with like 1 week difference is dumb. Looks like it happens but it's still dumb.

 

[BlueXenon]

Did this website not work for anyone else a few minutes ago?

 

[Dr. Tuen]

What are you planning on doing after January 19th though? Do you plan on collecting data from both URC Ruleset and non-URC Ruleset tournaments? or just one of those 2?

The ruleset for the data I'm collecting now isn't consistent, so I won't look for 100% consistency in my future work either. I will probably only take MK-banned events for the sake of investigating the progression of the metagame after the ban. It'll probably be at least 6 months after that before you guys will get anything cool out of me for that.

 

[DarkISDA]

I think it's better to make different rules only for MK matches, then to ban MK. If you ban MK then you are going to lose some of the best brawl players.
My Idea:
MK matches are 9 minutes, person who isnt using MK gets 60 ledge grabs, brinstar is banned.

We're going again to the fact that Mk need specifics rule to keep him in the game.

 

[BlueXenon]

Its better than banning him and losing great players.