Matchup Q&A: Ask Specific Character Matchup Questions Here

[GOofyGV]

@ Lzr Snake-IC's

I will try to help you one this bro. I do not play IC's to often but I can play tem a bit and I will try to help you out. Snake relies on his ground control. With this being sayd If you control the ground snake has trouble. Snake can't go into the air like marth or MK. He wants to stay grounded. When you approach snake keep in mind that he most likely will stay grounded and throw granede,Ftilt,Utilt at you. You are IC's so he won't grab that much.
When you approach do it carefull. Try to go in as much as needed to let him do his tilt. Bait him into this. Some snakes will wait long with their tilt some will do it quik. Look at what the snake player likes the most and be prepared for that. If he does it late he will spacei t bad Which can lead in a punish for you. If he does it quikly you can wait for the tilt and go in after his tilt is done.
Sometimes he will do 2 tilts in a row. In this case his sacond tilt will be spaced pretty bad which can get punished. If he likes to keep ftilting then rool behind and do a fast move. You shouldn't try to punish all of his tilts because in most cases it takes a risk.

best is to stay barely outside of his ftilt range. He will try to walk in on you but you have Ice shot and Blizzard to prevent this. If he goes fr granedes that aren't cooked then catch them and insta throw them back. This is done by catch wit hairdodge and then push c-stick to a certen direction. Do not go for this when you have to go in Ftilt range though. If his granade is cooked then evoid it. Or shield it. Watch out for him trying to get something on you from shielding the granade.

you should try to force snake in the air by controlling the stage better. You should play really carefull and think about every move you do. That way you can predict and punsih tilts a lot better. bait him into his standard habbits like ftilt or roll. And go in once you recgnize this. If you see he can Ftilt you do not go in. If you see he did a move get a bit more close. Space your place well against hm and wait for him to fell in a habbit or an mistake and **** him into his face for it. =)

Good luck bro I know how annoying snake is for IC's

@MAOMAO
Peach needs to get close to you to pressure you. Keep her out by spacing your blizzard and Ice blcoks. Ice clocks are more for long range. The force her to do a move,Shield them or go into the air. If she goes into the air she will float at you you can block her approach with your blizzard. You should try to test how patient the peach is. If the player isn't patient he will eat grabs if he is you should be as well.

Good luck

 

[-LzR-]

Dealing with Meta Knights aerial shuttle loop? That move is especially deadly against us. Is airdodge the only viable option? If I do that, most of the time I just get frametrapped which hurts. I know I should avoid being above MK, but it happens sometimes. Do I have to get a good read and just dodge it? Getting hit by it at middle % near the ledge means death most of the time.

 

[TheSaintKai]

Dealing with Meta Knights aerial shuttle loop? That move is especially deadly against us. Is airdodge the only viable option? If I do that, most of the time I just get frametrapped which hurts. I know I should avoid being above MK, but it happens sometimes. Do I have to get a good read and just dodge it? Getting hit by it at middle % near the ledge means death most of the time.

D-air beats it lol. Always make sure and DI correctly and it shouldn't kill you until 85 or 90%.

 

[-LzR-]

Dair seems to trade hits most of time. Of course in their favor.

 

[GOofyGV]

Well If you can read the upB then you should dodge it and punish it with any arial depending on where you are and where he is. Mk's wnt racklesly throw upB out once you do punish it a few times. You can always use your midair jump to evoid the upB. An smart mk wil not throw out an upB in any situation where you are above him. He will bait you into air dodges.

 

[-LzR-]

If I use an aerial it will trade and I get hit offstage.

 

[GOofyGV]

Not if you do it corectly =$

MK should not upB in mid air like an idiot. Ic's are one of the characters that have most trouble with this mainly because of how dumb nana can be. What you want to do is you want to evoid it by using you MAJ or AD after yu have done that you try t punish him if yu can do this without danger. otherwise you just land. If you try to land get away from mk so that his SL will not hit you as easely. Trading hits is way to dangrous but you can evoid it and just get out.

 

[TheSaintKai]

Dair seems to trade hits most of time. Of course in their favor.

Depends on how he hits you, if the front of his body during the loop hits you it will trade. You want to try and be DIRECTLY above him so that you hit the rear of his body during ASL. Then dair will hit him before the weird hitbox that sends you backwards hits you.

I usually just try and not be in that situation. If you're in that situation, you usually got separated or just combo'd by him and you aren't being safe enough or making him be afraid to be anywhere near you.

 

[DeLux]

Wolf what do?

 

[Sieguest]

Push buttons, win games.

 

[dettadeus]

get the percent lead and time him out imo

 

[Rubberbandman]

Wolf what do?

You dropped the CGs you had vs Joe. Stop being bad too.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

What do you guys do vs TL? I had so much trouble. couldn't grab him, and bombs were too hard to beat. How is the matchup?

 

[Sieguest]

vs. TL? I use my TL

That aside, just have to pick and choose your battles. Look for a hole to open up in the flurry of stuff he's throwing at you. Throw out ice shots when you can. Take what you can get and when they really screw up, potentially get a grab. Biggest thing is don't let Nana get picked off by something dumb like a bomb, the damage adds up and you'll eventually get separated and boned. Desyncing from a distance is a no-go since his projectiles stuff them. They'll probably stay on plats to avoid having to land on the same surface you're on, and if they do have to land they'll cover their landing with a bomb/hookshot. If you're behind in percent and have to approach you're best to sit at mid-range until your opportunity opens up. Jab is your friend up close, I'd prefer that even more so than grabbing when you're closing distance. Don't challenge him in the air unless you're under him. Desyncing is only really effective from mid to semi close range, unless you're firing off ice shots. Our largest opportunities to get some damage or a grab on TL is as he coming down to land from the air.

That said, the MU is "doable" in my opinion but it definitely is not fun.... at all. To be honest I really do use my TL when playing against TL.

 

[dettadeus]

When stage striking against a Marth (with FD, BF, SV, Lux's Cruise, PS1, Siege and YI:B as the starters) where would be the best place to force them to (assuming they ban FD right off the bat)? Last time I got striked to Lylat but I wasn't really comfortable with that MU on that stage yet so I went R.O.B. instead.

 

[DeLux]

How can you switch characters after stage striking?

That's cheating >_>

 

[Sieguest]

Ahahaha.
Aside from what Lux said, I'd personally shoot for SV.

 

[dettadeus]

Doesn't it go stage strike > character select > play?

 

[-LzR-]

That's what I though as well, until I realized that would ruin the whole point of the stage striking.
Character first.

 

[Sieguest]

Doesn't it go stage strike > character select > play?

That's what I though as well, until I realized that would ruin the whole point of the stage striking.
Character first.

This. The entire point of stage striking is to go to a stage that minimizes your opponent's advantages and maximizes your own. That all becomes meaningless if your stage is selected before even choosing the characters.

 

[DeLux]

At some point soon, I'm going to got through the pages of this thread to fill in the collapse tags in the OP lol

 

[SSBBDaisy]

ooooooooooooooooook


So I went to my local tourney in Jax again and ended up being lucky enough to make it into grand finals with me vs ryo. I also play him I think in winner's finals >_>. So yea, I got *****. I think I took one game off him in bracket. Woot ^_^


So has anyone here played their against Ryo's offline? I manage to take 1 game 2(if I'm lucky) in and off tourney but never complete sets -_-


Cause I'm guessing most of u haven't. vs is 99.9:.01 ike's favor.


I'm trying to find a solution but keep failing to find one.


Let me explain the things he does if u don't know


The Back ****ing grab. THE BACK GRAB. That is what ***** us.


U can't get anywhere with in 8 feet(lmao I don't know an exact measurement of how far u should be from the edge JUST TRY TO STAY IN THE MIDDLE) of any of the edges of the stage.

1. Bthrow u at low percents, can't di it high enough to make nana jump b4 she gets near the edge. Nana will run offstage and as she gets to the edge she jumps at this time ur still in hitstun and ike dtilt spikes nana to her doom. This is GUARANTEED.

2. bthrow fsmash. a back throw and follows up with a fsmash. LMAO. ummm not much u can do if he gets the pivot on u. If he spaces it wrong and u react fast enough u can prevent his fsmash with a dash attack.



Now things I realized I was doing wrong vs his ike.

1. Going anywhere near, close, far but not far enough from the edges of ANY stage.

2. Not shield grabbing his fairs. If u can time it and space it right u can dash in on his fairs and shield grab him even if he is pulling back.

If I had a capture card I would make a video on all of this.



Any help/advice is greatly appreciated. BTW u can't rely on Ice Shot vs him. Maybe its because I suck XD

 

[Twigz]

Hey guys..... I'm having serious trouble against olimar. I'm not good with desynch's as yet.. He just zones me with his pikmins.. If I do get in he somehow sends me back... What am I supposed to be doing in this match-up? Thanks ...

 

[Robbydebry]

Sooooo Pikachu. We've already established that De-syncing doesn't work well against projectiles, wel pikachu is a projectile in and of himself xD And that down-b and smash down-a don't really help in the grabbing department and it seems pikachu's range is always slightly longer than mine. So I end up spamming SHop blizzards and pray for an open spot xD

 

[DeLux]

His range is not longer than your pivot grab. You'll probably lose against a good pikachu if you spam SH blizzard since it really doesn't have utility in this specific MU. Ice Shot, however, does have a lot of uses.

When did we establish that desyncing doesn't work well vs. Projectiles?
Desyncing works wonders against Olimar and Snake which both have heavy projectile usage.

 

[-LzR-]

If allowed, try the fusion glitch against Pikachu. It's hilarous. Though I don't know if it has any true potential.

 

[[Corn]]

I have alot of trouble with snakes DACUS. Ill get close enough for him to stop throwing nades, yet far enough away to avoid his tilts.
What should I do against it? As I either sheild/dodge it if Im too close or attempt to grab him during it, as that leads to basically a stock if it connects.

 

[DeLux]

Bait it and pivot grab it

You only need to guess right once (in theory) and you can be fairly safe doing it if you combine it with a Nana desync option (ie ice shot with Nana, Pivot Grab with Popo, Ice shot with Nana)

 

[[Corn]]

Hmm, Ok. Ive found that alot of snake players dont expect to be grabbed out of it anyways.

 

[[Corn]]

Sorry for the double post, but one last question.

When facing a good ROB, I can usually get the grab, but I have tons of trouble with his timing. I tend to use d-throw to d-throw across the stage and just turn around at edges and do it until KO%. Besides hobbling, is there any other means that is agreed to be easier or more efficient to use against him?

 

[-LzR-]

Use Fthrow with Popo and try to space Nana as close to Popo as possible. Then the Bthrow is quite easy to do. I don't like Dthrow against heavies at all, way harder when compared to most methods.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

what is the proper way to attempt to mash out against ICs?

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Corn, you should go to the Armageddon tournament in Cincinnati, OH this weekend. Have you even been to any tournaments yet?

 

[-LzR-]

what is the proper way to attempt to mash out against ICs?

http://smashboards.com/threads/dual...-breaking-momentum-cancelling-and-sdi.315154/

 

[[Corn]]

Use Fthrow with Popo and try to space Nana as close to Popo as possible. Then the Bthrow is quite easy to do. I don't like Dthrow against heavies at all, way harder when compared to most methods.

Hmm, the only character that I actually d-throw to d-throw to death is ROB, otherwise I D-throw to F-throw and B-throw when I reach a point that I have to turn around as it is pretty consistant and doesnt lead to tripping. Thats only against characters in which im not comfortable using B-throw to F/D-throw on though.

Check 6:25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPOdBStsuDo

Corn, you should go to the Armageddon tournament in Cincinnati, OH this weekend. Have you even been to any tournaments yet?

I havnt really had the funds/time to go to any major ones besides the ones around my area, though I still face my share of good players. Its mostly Falcos/Snakes/Peachs/1 Ness/1 Mario/Marths. Sucks being in college doesnt it?

 

[DeLux]

You have your climbers backwards if you're trying to tripless. The way you're doing it still has opportunities for tripping, just the risk is mitigated to two occasions when you turn around. Though unlikely, it's still possible to trip.

As for missing the Dthrow on ROB, just get better at it. The Dthrow timing window on heavy characters, while slow it makes people mess up, is nearly always larger than the window on lighter characters believe it or not.

 

[[Corn]]

You have your climbers backwards if you're trying to tripless. The way you're doing it still has opportunities for tripping, just the risk is mitigated to two occasions when you turn around. Though unlikely, it's still possible to trip.

As for missing the Dthrow on ROB, just get better at it. The Dthrow timing window on heavy characters, while slow it makes people mess up, is nearly always larger than the window on lighter characters believe it or not.

Oh, I realize that I have the opportunity for tripping when I turn around at edges, it just greatly minimizes my chances and I dont risk myself messing up a F-throw chain,as that is by far the most challenging for me. D-thow to F-throw is the chain I do on characters that I dont feel comfortable chaingrabbing on.

Also, Im not the one who has the trouble on the D-throw on rob, I believe that was LzR who was saying he didnt like d-throw on heavyweights. I prefer it as it has the largest window of regrabbing.

My preferences:
Lightweights:Usually D-throw chain until 30% ish, then D-throw to B-Throw.
Middleweights:Usually D-Throw to F Throw until that 30% ish, then I mix up with B-throw to F-throw or B-Throw to D-Throw depending on my reliablity of said character. I love the buffered F-throw to B-Throw with a passion on the humanish characters.
Heavyweights:Usually just continiously D-throw to F-throw and B-throw at ledges, well unless Rob which I just D-throw to ledges then turn around cause I suck at F/B-throwing him. I am just uncomfortable with the odd timings they seem to have.

 

[DeLux]

Having watched your videos, you're notating your CGs backwards. Typically speaking, the popo throw is noted first and the nana throw second. So if you were to say Bthrow > Dthrow, it means Popo Bthrow > Nana Grab > Nana Dthrow > Popo Grab. So when you say you love the "Fthrow to Bthrow with a passion on humanish characters", the Fthrow > Bthrow is the tripless CG which isn't the one I've seen you doing in your videos. The one you do is the Bthrow > Fthrow.

Not sure why you're telling me LZR asked about CGing Rob when you literally asked what was better:

Sorry for the double post, but one last question.

When facing a good ROB, I can usually get the grab, but I have tons of trouble with his timing. I tend to use d-throw to d-throw across the stage and just turn around at edges and do it until KO%. Besides hobbling, is there any other means that is agreed to be easier or more efficient to use against him?

Do what's comfortable and whatever works. But if you're having trouble with his timing, the best suggestion would be more practice

 

[[Corn]]

Having watched your videos, you're notating your CGs backwards. Typically speaking, the popo throw is noted first and the nana throw second. So if you were to say Bthrow > Dthrow, it means Popo Bthrow > Nana Grab > Nana Dthrow > Popo Grab. So when you say you love the "Fthrow to Bthrow with a passion on humanish characters", the Fthrow > Bthrow is the tripless CG which isn't the one I've seen you doing in your videos. The one you do is the Bthrow > Fthrow.

Not sure why you're telling me LZR asked about CGing Rob when you literally asked what was better:

Do what's comfortable and whatever works. But if you're having trouble with his timing, the best suggestion would be more practice

I actually am notating mah grabs backwards, hmm, sorry about that. Simple stuff will always mess you up, or so they say.


But you are correct, I do use the grab which allows for tripping. Thanks for making me notice that.
Learned this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6NxOssZPbI like when I started Icies, and I guess the habit stayed with me when in reality I should be using http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dev8yzPEqlM like you mentioned. Started Icies December of 2012, still reletively a noob in laymans terms.

I think we are confused about what I mentioned with Rob, the ONLY throw I dont have trouble with on him is D-throw. Thats why I keep replying.

 

[DeLux]

No worries. Just catching you up on the terminology. Now we just need to teach you that a combo video actually has to have combos to be a combo video

For ROB, I use Dthrows to hobble turn around. If I can't hobble turn around, I use Fthrow > Bthrow and then dthrow across. But as I said, do whatever works and if it isn't working practice