Matchup Q&A: Ask Specific Character Matchup Questions Here

[[Corn]]

Mmk, Ive always had trouble with ROB compared to most characters, dont really know why.

But ya brawl combos and such....

 

[[Corn]]

Well ok, basically got the tripless down. Its still viable to use the B-throw to D-throw on lighter characters, correct?

 

[DeLux]

Whatever most consistently gets you the kill is the most viable. The highest ceiling for accuracy is the tripless CG since it removes the chances of dropping for tripping. However if your mistiming/misspacing drop rate with tripless is higher than your mistiming/misspacing + trip rate, you should opt for the latter since the point is to take stocks.

 

[[Corn]]

Whatever most consistently gets you the kill is the most viable. The highest ceiling for accuracy is the tripless CG since it removes the chances of dropping for tripping. However if your mistiming/misspacing drop rate with tripless is higher than your mistiming/misspacing + trip rate, you should opt for the latter since the point is to take stocks.

Understood, the tripless did help alot with the midweights and light-heavyweights though.

Why are Lucas and Ness so hard to chain with like anything?

 

[DeLux]

They have weird hurtbox orientation issues when thrown. In laymens terms, during the grab frames they sit really high for some reason in the animation, so you are grabbing them with the top part of the grab circle rather than the center.

This is most notable on Fthrows and Bthrows, and on Lucas moreso than Ness.

 

[[Corn]]

They have weird hurtbox orientation issues when thrown. In laymens terms, during the grab frames they sit really high for some reason in the animation, so you are grabbing them with the top part of the grab circle rather than the center.

This is most notable on Fthrows and Bthrows, and on Lucas moreso than Ness.

Ah, that explains my hatred for throwing them.

 

[DeLux]

Just dthrow them across the stage and then hobble them, then dthrow back the other way. I wouldn't recommend trying to bother with the tripless on Lucas. Ness you can try, but even then I wouldn't bother.

 

[[Corn]]

Just dthrow them across the stage and then hobble them, then dthrow back the other way. I wouldn't recommend trying to bother with the tripless on Lucas. Ness you can try, but even then I wouldn't bother.

Meh, I can usually just B-throw to D-throw Ness, Lucas, well havnt really fought any good Lucas players anyways, can always pull out D3 if needed.

But the tripless is very nice, I can realiably do it on most midweights and a few heavyweights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yquQe7jb_z8

 

[DeLux]

Just watching your video, you finish your CG with N Dthrow > P Hypen Usmash. Don't do that. You can trip. You could also sour spot your usmash.

You can pretty much always either N Uthrow > P usmash or N Dthrow > P charged fsmash.

 

[[Corn]]

Just watching your video, you finish your CG with N Dthrow > P Hypen Usmash. Don't do that. You can trip

You can pretty much always either N Uthrow > P usmash or N Dthrow > P charged fsmash.

Oh I know, It was more practice then anything, hypen upsmash just looks cool

 

[DeLux]

Just saying that it's odd in a video where you say it's what you "should" have been doing in the first place

Sets a terrible example

 

[[Corn]]

Grabbing, not finishing mate.

Anyways, my most reliable desync is the dash dance, could you explain in a bit more depth the "Lux" desync. If I can get that down I will be able to approach with blizzard much better.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Can I get some of you guyses opinions on fighting gdubs? I wonder because its considered our hardest matchup but I think marth is actually harder. Both are definitely hard as balls though. I think our tools for splitting you guys up are pretty good. Let's say we capitalize on an early mistake and get a stock lead. How can you guys catch us or prevent gdubs from planking you? Not trying to debate. I'm curious because I want to become strong at the matchup. I also have a peach but I wanna stay gdubs as much as possible. Reppin the char

 

[SSBBDaisy]

gdubs? gnw? tf?

 

[SFA Smiley]

Its a short name for gw. Its the shortest nickname when referring to gw verbally.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

uhhhhh. I think its easier to say gw or gnw. Kids and their lingo these days. lol

 

[SFA Smiley]

Less syllables

 

[DeLux]

I personally think the GnW MU is a lot harder than people tend to believe

GnW players tend to not abuse a few high powered separating options for whatever reason that I'm not sure. As far as planking goes, ICs have possibly the strongest Anti-Planking game to work with this side of MK. If done properly there are guaranteed setups to grab that forces characters off of the ledge including GnW's options, although against Gnw specifically it might be conjecture on my part since I'm not sure how Uair would factor. However, normally I wouldn't go for them unless there was time winding down since a lot of the options are high risk in the event something is mistimed.

 

[-LzR-]

I think the MU is really bad for GW, but only at the toplevel of play. The MU is so much easier to play for GW than it is for ICs imo so GW has a lot more options until the IC player learns to punish every single little thing and not get dsmashed at 60% and die.

EDIT: Oh and GW vs Marth is probably the most overrated MU in the game. It's hard but it's not nearly as hard as people say damn it.

 

[| Big D |]

How do we beat ICs?

 

[-LzR-]

To be honest I have no clue, I got bodied hard by both Gardex and Dueler X when we played but I guess that had to do with inexperience. Most likely pretty much everything GW does can be grabbed or otherwise punished assuming good ISSDI or SDI or timing and so on, but it's hard to do so it doesn't matter until the IC is really good.
Anyways I think Vinnie started it so he should be the one doing the explaining.

 

[Vinnie]

7:3 matchup. You have to get lucky upon separating them, and take advantage of Nana. You would think G&W would wreck nana, but since he overcommits when hitting her (nair, bair,a smash attack, etc), popo is usually able to stop you pretty quickly. I haven't attempted this MU in a long time. :I

 

[-LzR-]

Those are actually valid points. Are you able to explain the MU a little bit in depth so I could have a better chance next time?

 

[SFA Smiley]

Good info.

 

[Onett_zidi]

I need help with the Snake MU, its really dificcult to me fight a Snake
Help me :v

 

[DeLux]

What issues are you having specifically? willing to help if you have scenario issues or even video to critique

 

[SSBBDaisy]

Delux what am I doing wrong? besides dropping grabs and being a terrible ICs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXCD4HzOsJU

I don't have the matches of me vs mvd but snake is the MU I really need to learn

 

[DeLux]

Well you won, so I think you're doing alright imo lol

You'd have won by a lot more if you converted more than like half of your grabs though

 

[SSBBDaisy]

converted?

10 converteds.

 

[-LzR-]

Aka killed them off a grab.

 

[DeLux]

Thought this would be appropriate:

-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:
4:

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-matchup-chart-v3-0.338390/

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I think I've found out a new way to CG people if nana is too far away, and they are about to break out. I could do this multiple times vs the CPU in training mode. All I did was backthrow --> Nana Fair, and then the Spike to Ice Block Lock. Idk how effective it can be or if this was already known, but I thought it was a cool way to CG people and it works @ mid %.

 

[-LzR-]

If Nana is far away you cannot give her any inputs and on the effective range I think a hobble would work better. Still something to keep in mind though.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

Many times when I'm on Basic Brawl and I play on Temple with ICs there are cases where nana is like 50 feet away from me and I use blizzard with popo and from like 50 feet away nana will do it also. (this particularly happens when nana gets off a ledge)

 

[DeLux]

I think I've found out a new way to CG people if nana is too far away, and they are about to break out. I could do this multiple times vs the CPU in training mode. All I did was backthrow --> Nana Fair, and then the Spike to Ice Block Lock. Idk how effective it can be or if this was already known, but I thought it was a cool way to CG people and it works @ mid %.

Not seeing the part where this is a MU question? Bthrow > Fair has been known for a while. I've actually been able to SH > DJ Fair to dash grab without the ice shot lock on cpus, but they don't account for DI. However, I'd suspect there wouldn't really be a huge advantage to this over trying to get Nana to dash grab someone out of a buffered grab release from pummel

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Not seeing the part where this is a MU question? Bthrow > Fair has been known for a while. I've actually been able to SH > DJ Fair to dash grab without the ice shot lock on cpus, but they don't account for DI. However, I'd suspect there wouldn't really be a huge advantage to this over trying to get Nana to dash grab someone out of a buffered grab release from pummel

Well I didn't know what other thread to post this in. Where should I post something general like this next time?

 

[DeLux]

Try the General Q&A?

http://smashboards.com/threads/general-ics-q-a-thread.199633/

 

[Dr4gonBlitz]

Hey, I'm a Falco main having a huge issue with metaknight. I have picked up IC as a counter to those pesky masked devils and wanted some advice on the matchup. What is the est approach to a classic metaknight fight, aka campy D-airs and Nados. Also, is there a specific chain grab that is easy to do on metaknight?

 

[SFA Smiley]

Not an IC main but i'd just stick to Falco, he's one of the few characters in the game that can truly go toe to toe with MK.

Having a Pocket ICs for MK isn't an outrageous thing but when you main Falco it is, you'll honestly probably have an easier time with him than ICs

 

[Dr4gonBlitz]

The thing is I always seem to get bodied by metanights as falco and I wanted another option other than just being an ultra campy falco. I understand the IC - MK matchup is pretty campy as well but I still think it's worth learning.