Matchup help vs. Falco

[OverCloak]

So I am trying to win against Falco (Im Marth) , but the Falco crouch cancels my fairs all the time and always DI's downward. Is there a certain approach to fighting a Falco (go for the grab game etc)? What is the basic setup for an aerial combo? Any advice or a link to a post would be greatly appreciated. BtW im trying to build up my Matchup without the edgeguarding tech's of marth.

 

[Dart]

can you powershield. i'd say its almost required nowadays, falcos combos are hard to escape and really gay. if you powershield his laser there isn't much he can do if it throws his momentum off.

 

[Carom]

Abuse counter !

 

[Dart]

Abuse counter !

No.
use counter only if you know they are expecting you to drop down and attack or if they are dropping on you with something like dair or uair

 

[JesiahTEG]

If he crouch cancels your fairs your spacing needs to be better.

 

[booshk]

powershield everything u can . every laser try to powershield to oos fair or grabs or wavedash oos -> anything

if theres platforms and u need to avoid some lasers waveland onto the platforms and move downwards if he does dj lasers

if he's crouchcancelling your fairs and punishing you you're not spacing correctly lol so work on ur spacing.

when he drills and shines after the shine wavedash oos and forward smash.. low percents go for grabs more?

that's all i got for now

 

[ZoSo]

Don't expect a lot of success if you're trying to do it without edgeguarding.

Powershielding is really easy if you're crouching. Give it a shot.

 

[TheManaLord]

Guys, this person is clearly not on the level of powershielding and is looking for basic advice.

If you notice this kid CC'ing your **** all the time just run up to his ***** *** and grab him and throw him and fsmash

if he approaches with lasers once he gets close fsmash his ***

just fsmash more man =)

 

[Professor :3]

what tml said and wd oos

 

[Kaffei]

Just grab him

 

[Staco]

Dont just Fsmash around, lmao.
Youre going to get ***** if U play like this against good to ordinary players.
Espeacally against Falco, when every Shine gives U 40+%.

 

[Dart]

Dashdance alot...don't stand in one place ever unless you are chaingrabbing if you hit him offstage wait til you take his jump then drop down on him and hit him with a dair, reverse up b or something that hits him away and not up. he has 0 percent of a chance to make it back due to having the shortest up b range of all the top tiers and being heavy.

 

[.Ðempt]

Eh. Oh how I love Falco.

You actually have the advantage. There's a couple things you can do:

~ Power Shielding: People already said it, but didn't explain it (assuming you don't know of course). Shield right when one of his lasers (and most Falcos use them for their approach) is about to hit you. There's like a 6 frame window (I think?) to when your shield goes up to reflect their laser.

~ Grabs: Marth loves fast fallers. Up throw works the best, but if you feel pretty ballsy enough, you can try tech-chasing them (chasing them after they tech and follow up with an attack or grab).

~ Watch your spacing: Like the guy above said, if you're letting him crouch cancel him out, you need to work on your tipper spacing so you put knockback onto him. Once you get him moving on your terms though, you're in control, and from there, follow through with combos.

~ Mind Games: These are important in every game. Personally, I like to Dash Dance once left then right, wavedash back, then let him follow through so I can hit with a tipper, Nair, or Fair.

Blah. There goes 12 minutes of my life. ;/

 

[yummynbeefy]

Eh. Oh how I love Falco.

You actually have the advantage. There's a couple things you can do:

~ Power Shielding: People already said it, but didn't explain it (assuming you don't know of course). Shield right when one of his lasers (and most Falcos use them for their approach) is about to hit you. There's like a 6 frame window (I think?) to when your shield goes up to reflect their laser.

~ Grabs: Marth loves fast fallers. Up throw works the best, but if you feel pretty ballsy enough, you can try tech-chasing them (chasing them after they tech and follow up with an attack or grab).

~ Watch your spacing: Like the guy above said, if you're letting him crouch cancel him out, you need to work on your tipper spacing so you put knockback onto him. Once you get him moving on your terms though, you're in control, and from there, follow through with combos.

~ Mind Games: These are important in every game. Personally, I like to Dash Dance once left then right, wavedash back, then let him follow through so I can hit with a tipper, Nair, or Fair.

Blah. There goes 12 minutes of my life. ;/

let me expand on this

powershielding is actually a 2 frame window if im not mistaken
also falco cant be chaingrabbed from 0 with u-throw use f-throw twice then start chaingrabbing with up but doing it from 7% is tough

 

[booshk]

i thought powershield had a 3 frame window. oh well.

but yeah f-throw but it could get predictable so as always u gotta mix it up

 

[Staco]

U could also just uthrow and try to read Falcos tech, because Falco can always get out of that fthrow stuff (much easier than Fox).

 

[Kaffei]

U could also just uthrow and try to read Falcos tech, because Falco can always get out of that fthrow stuff (much easier than Fox).

What
I can't fthrow fthrow fthrow fox but I can to falco

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

you can usually get one fthrow->regrab before they can react, but some people will always get out of this.

You can CG falco at 0%, but not if he DIs behind you. If he DIs back and you fthrow, you get a regrab. If he DIs forward and you uthrow, you get a regrab. If he has bad reaction time and you do either throw, you get a regrab.

 

[Staco]

Huh?
As far as I know its impossible to regrab Falco again, if he DIs away. (Im pretty new at melee, so I might be wrong about this)

If Fox DIs away you could just Uthrow and regrab, if he DIs towards you, you can Fthrow and regrab. Its like a guessing game.

I thought if Falco DIs away you cant get him again.

 

[Vincent46]

At 0%, DIing away gets falco out of fhtrow regrab, while DIing towards you gets falco out of uthrow regrab. So,if they have good reaction time, it's sort of a guessing game.
I believe you can uthrow regrab fox at 0% even if he DIs behind you, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yeah on fox you an regrab no matter what DI from the uthrow. With falco if he DIs behind you cant turn around and grab before he hits the ground. If either of them DI foward, its the same as not DIing from your end.

 

[Staco]

So:
if U grab Fox at 0% just Uthrow and regrab

if U grab Falco at 0% predict if he DIs away (Uthrow) or if he DIs towards U (Fthrow)

right??

 

[Faithkeeper]

If falco DIs behind you and misses the tech (for some random reason) do you have time to turnaround jab reset and regrab?

 

[Kaffei]

If falco DIs behind you and misses the tech (for some random reason) do you have time to turnaround jab reset and regrab?

Yes, but I don't know if you can react fast enough.

 

[Faithkeeper]

valid point, I wouldn't usually expect a falco that knows to DI behind (aka not a newbie to falco) to miss a tech...

 

[Diakonos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXkfC3vPZDM

Except don't miss your turn around grabs and other silly things.

 

[booshk]

wtf. get out of here scrub diakonos.

u dont know how to play falco at all. gosh l2powershield plz

 

[AustinRC]

I'd be careful with the 0% forward throw stuff with space animals. I've had quite a few of them shine me before I could regrab. I'm not messing it up either its just difficult timing on their part. Other than that though yeah. With CGing is fine and all but you need to learn to pivot grab if they start doing that slight DI behind you and mash on shine crap. If you can pivot grab you can nullify that and make things easier. A REALLY easy way to pivot a grab in that situation is to start your dash then dash towards them and shield grab since you put up your sheild in your dashing animation you wont slide like you would in your run animation and its just as quick as the actual 1 frame pivoting stuff or if you dont want to you could just sheild let them shine your sheild then wait for them to jump and follow them with a oos uair into some juggling crap which if your on FD you could land a death combo or if your on a different stage they will end up on a platform and free damage from there. Hope this helps.

 

[Tee ay eye]

falco (maybe fox too) can shine you at like, under 10% if you uthrow if they do it right

it's f**king ********

 

[Vincent46]

falco (maybe fox too) can shine you at like, under 10% if you uthrow if they do it right

it's f**king ********

Really? But why no one ever does it?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'm not messing it up either its just difficult timing on their part

What?

just space your grab. marth's grab > any shine

 

[Retroking2000]

cstick shfairs

work wonders especially full jump inital fairs

you can shield wavedash after a shine hits your shield mosts marths move after the air but shine comes out to fast you have to take notice of how the falco pressures you

you can CC some hits to a grab like nair / bair or dash attack i dont know about dair though

marths dash attack is a must in during falcos sh lasering during the jump phase you can attempt a clean dash attack

counter oos . just learn how to do it fast / efficient

dtilt is good vs falco

a well timed jab can mess up anything really

you have to play really strict your dash / movement is handicapped most of the time

more importantly it focuses on what you do oos and IF you can follow up after that which usually gives you the win

 

[Rappster]

falco (maybe fox too) can shine you at like, under 10% if you uthrow if they do it right

it's f**king ********

only falco

 

[unknown522]

So I am trying to win against Falco (Im Marth) , but the Falco crouch cancels my fairs all the time and always DI's downward. Is there a certain approach to fighting a Falco (go for the grab game etc)? What is the basic setup for an aerial combo? Any advice or a link to a post would be greatly appreciated. BtW im trying to build up my Matchup without the edgeguarding tech's of marth.

I know this is a late post, but if he's CCing your f-airs, then you can combo d-air -> grab at percents where he doesn't get knocked over. If you catch him in the air with a f-air, then grab. CG -> moves on FD, or u-throw them onto a platform on not FD then don't let them come down. You have the power to do so. Also, dash under high lasers and try to PS -> grab when you are close. Also, retreating f-air is good sometimes, or hitting with f-air OoS when you are correctly spaced for it. The lasers don't have much hitstun, though it is a pain to practice countering them with strategies. Counter up close is good sometimes and can setup for a gimp, or just for knockdowns and edge traps to get easy tech chases.

I'm also told that retreating auto-canceled n-air is good sometimes, but I almost never use n-air anyway when using marth. Also, WD OoS is amazing at all times especially with marth's brokenly long WD + DD.

falco (maybe fox too) can shine you at like, under 10% if you uthrow if they do it right

it's f**king ********

they can't shine you under 10%. It's like 19% or something (I forget the number, might be higher).

 

[KirbyKaze]

shield laser. fair out of shield. block laser early or powershield it.

 

[Diakonos]

shield laser. fair out of shield. block laser early or powershield it.

If it is not KirbyKaze, it is done.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

BtW im trying to build up my Matchup without the edgeguarding tech's of marth.

Oh, then my advice is to continue losing.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^ pretty much.

marth's on stage game is good, but his edgeguard game is much much better

 

[Archangel]

If you look at edgeguarding as something forbidden or something you don't want to use if at all possible. Then you will not progress. Not Practicing your edge game will also come back to bite you when you least need it too. If your gonna practice your on stage game do what alot of pro's like Zhu or M2K do. Train on lvl 1 or 4 computers and work on your timing. Aside from that when your playing you shouldn't be thinking in terms of fighting in an honorable match on stage. Instead you should be thinking."How can I play gayer then I already am" as well as "Can I cheat him and how/when"

 

[CA420]

Most annoying thing is Falco's laser storm while I'm trying to sword dance back on the stage.