MATCH UPS....throw anything you got.....

[Takeshi245]

Mario vs. Fox, eh? From my experience, they can both beat the crud out of each other. Mario can u-tilt lock Fox and juggle him with his uairs because of Fox's fast fall speed and when Fox is off the stage, Mario can end him with FLUDD,cape, bair, uair, Up-B spike, and , if you want to be risky, fair .Heck, I even caped Fox's Side-B a few times, making him fall to his death. Also, Mario's dair makes things for Fox more difficult considering that move can lead to another juggle and has good aerial priority. Bair's also a good move to use against him for offensive and defensive manuever as well. Not only that, but due to Fox's light weight, he can be KO'd around 85% percent or so.

At the same time, Fox can KO Mario around that same percent with his Up-Smash, can build damage up with his lasers, has a good bair, and his fair racks up damage well. Fox is also faster than Mario so Mario has to be on his toes and careful against him because that attribute helps Fox when it comes to zoning. Also, I don't think Mario's dair can beat Fox's uair if he's under him. Moreover, Mario can be shinespiked, which sucks considering Mario's recovery's just average. Fox's nair has some nice priority and sticks out like Mario's. Fox's throws aren't much to write home about, though. Expect dairs because of what Fox can do afterwards. He can even use his shine in the air to stall and then go for the dair. One more thing dair, though. If you time your U-smash or u-tilt correctly, you can beat out Fox's dair. Also, Fox's u-tilt is annoying, is good at juggling, and can be linked to other attacks. Overall, I think it's even.

 

[Judge Judy]

Oh? Fox's Bair and Nair are quite potent , Fair is pretty good (will usually land at least 2 or 3 hits, all of them if you're not careful to SDI properly), and Dthrow sets up for some good aerial tech chase. Blaster isn't really for racking up damage, by the way, but the extra few percent doesn't hurt.

Fox's game is as much about proper spacing to land hits as it is raw damage output. Anyway, looks like I won't have time to type anything up about the aerial game; sorry.

Good luck with the rest of your matchup discussions.

Fox's Dthrow is decent but it still isn't nearly as good for tech chasing and follow-ups as Mario's. Fox's Bair is decent but you can't really follow up with it well. Fox's Fair and Nair are decent moves to tack on extra dmg but they don't have great follow ups either. I should give Fox more credit than I do, but Dair is undoubtedly Fox's main way of racking up dmg. My major question to Fox mains though, is who they think is better at racking up dmg in this match-up.

 

[Matador]

It just occurred to me that Fox has a ton of bad matchups.

 

[Judge Judy]

It just occurred to me that Fox has a ton of bad matchups.

Yes, yes he does...Pikachu, lol.

 

[Duo55]

Well, thats because alot of times, ppl take it as a personal insult if we say fox has an advantage over their character. O well, alot of us (fox mains) like it that way. As for the Mario vs Fox match up... I may have some imput, but first I'll have to do some matches with boss first at CH 4.5 or perhaps chus bi-weekly. Anyways, I'll back to this later.

 

[boss8]

lol dude we are about to move on to next character unlesss you guys still want to do fox????

 

[Duo55]

naw man, don't wait up for me. I really just want to play the match up for myself, and see how it goes. Whos next in line for discussion? I also play mario on the side for fun.

 

[HeroMystic]

Shiek's been on my mind for awhile.

Spoiler

Matt needs to get his butt in here =P

 

[Matador]

Shiek would be good. I've got a ton of experience there.

What's Fox, 50:50? 55:45?

 

[Judge Judy]

Shiek would be good. I've got a ton of experience there.

What's Fox, 50:50? 55:45?

Probably 55:45 in Mario's favor, but I'll go with 50:50; either way this match-up is about even.

 

[Matt07]

Lol Hero, I saw that =P, I have drama all this week and doing the play tonight and tomorrow, and Thursday I will be late as well. Anyways, my schedule won't be that hectic soon as drama will be done soon, and I will be on here way more often. Anyways the Fox Match-up.

I used information out of this thread too come up with the summary, credit goes to the original posters.

Pros:
+Mario's combo game is good against Fox, due to his 'fast fall' physics.
+Mario has better combos.
+Mario can edgeguard Fox better then Fox can edgeguard Mario.
+Mario has a better air game then Fox.
+Fox is very light, making it easier to K.O him.

Cons:
-Fox has better priority range.
-Fox deals with fireballs effectively.
-His combo game isn't bad either.
-His Usmash is easy to land, and can K.O very early.
-Fox's ground game is better then Mario's.

55:45 in Mario's favour.

Special Thanks to the Fox Boards for their contributions and discussion .

Err...why do I feeling I missed some stuff, lol help me out please .

 

[Judge Judy]

^You forgot to mention Fox's weight; Fox is very light.

 

[Dory]

i say 55:45 Mario>Fox

 

[fox219]

for falco you forgot d-air spike

 

[fox219]

Lol Hero, I saw that =P, I have drama all this week and doing the play tonight and tomorrow, and Thursday I will be late as well. Anyways, my schedule won't be that hectic soon as drama will be done soon, and I will be on here way more often. Anyways the Fox Match-up.

I used information out of this thread too come up with the summary, credit goes to the original posters.

Pros:
+Mario's combo game is good against Fox, due to his 'fast fall' physics.
+Mario has better combos.
+Mario can edgeguard Fox better then Fox can edgeguard Mario.
+Mario has a better air game then Fox.
+Fox is very light, making it easier to K.O him.

Cons:
-Fox has better priority range.
-Fox deals with fireballs effectively.
-His combo game isn't bad either.
-His Usmash is easy to land, and can K.O very early.
-Fox's ground game is better then Mario's.

55:45 in Mario's favour.

Special Thanks to the Fox Boards for their contributions and discussion .

Err...why do I feeling I missed some stuff, lol help me out please .

I thought fox had a huge advantage. combos, blaster, better ko potential. damage dealer too

 

[fox219]

^You forgot to mention Fox's weight; Fox is very light.

fox players dodge ALOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! falco's dodges are faster though

 

[Famous]

Okay?.....I think we will do revisions in the future. Were focusing on characters we haven't gone over atm.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Fox219 is dumb. Triple posting (edit button fool) and thinking Fox ***** Mario, when the match-up is pretty much even.

 

[Judge Judy]

Sheik has never been too hard for me, but I find good Zeldas to be annoying; Zeldas love Nayru's Love...

 

[Judge Judy]

Edit: double post...but I'll make the most of it...

Sheik isn't too hard to gimp and you can cape her Up B, also, FLUDD messes up her Up B too.

 

[Kanzaki]

My only strat against Zelda... if they try to din fire too close to the ledge, fludd them off!! xD


Other than that.. I don't fight too many Shiek/Zelda's..

 

[vadgama]

Sheik was awesome in brawl but i have not faced a good zelda player yet. i have however seen Nayru's Love used ALOT

 

[Judge Judy]

Zelda's lightning licks are still **** and kill very early, luckily they aren't too hard to avoid. Also, her Dsmash is as fast as R.O.B.'s and has a nasty knockback trajectory...and I hate Nayru's Love...

 

[Matador]

Are we doing them both at the same time, or one after the other? I need to know before I make the thread.

 

[HeroMystic]

From what I've seen we already did Zelda...

 

[Zankoku]

Sheik is really fast and doesn't care too much about your fireballs, but like everything Mario does has better priority because he has invisible hitboxes that extend past his fists and feet, lol. His recovery also makes him in danger of gimping if he doesn't cover himself well enough, and if he does then Sheik can just transform for the KO. Mario can't be ftilt locked conventionally.

 

[Matt07]

Ah crap, I posted both of the match-up's at Zelda/Sheik boards, oh well.

I used information out of this thread too come up with the summary, credit goes to the original posters.

Zelda
Pros:
+Fireballs can do some damage, but if you're predictable she can use her reflector.
+Zelda is fairly light.

Cons:
-Can K.O very early.
-Nayru's Love is hard to deal.
-Down tilt lock, into downsmash makes K.O's us early, since we can't recovery due to the trajectory it sends us at.
-Usmash outpriotizes every one of Mario's moves.

Sheik
Pros:
+Her lightweight makes it easier for us to K.O her.
+Mario has better priority.
+Better(?) Disjointed hitboxes compared to Sheik.
+Mario can't be Ftilt locked conventionally.

Neutrals
+/ They both can edgeguard eachother very well.
+/- About the same K.O power.

Cons:
-She can easily stop our recovery with Over B.
-She can easily 'run' around Fireballs.
-Sheik is very fast making it quite hard to land an Fsmash.
-Sheik has superior mobility in approach
-Needles are quick, and very difficult to cape.
-Sheik is harder to Cape.
-Sheik is faster in almost every category (ground speed, air speed, attack speed)
-Sheik's non-Tipper-Usmash KO moves are on-average easier to land than Mario's.
-Sheik has insanely good combo options.

Special Thanks to the Zelda/Sheik Boards for their contributions and discussion .

 

[Judge Judy]

Are we doing them both at the same time, or one after the other? I need to know before I make the thread.

We need to discuss both, also, the Zelda and Sheik boards have already discussed Mario and have it as a 60:40 match-up in Zelda/Sheik's favor.

PS: Zelda is very light as well as Sheik.

 

[Kataefi]

Zelda never has to take a fight to the air. Mario being aerially faster than Zelda isn't necessary an advantage. She'll catch any aerial approach from him in a USmash, and yes USmash outprioritises his entire aerial moveset.

She'll kill him nice and early with a DSmash from edge. Nayru's shouldn't be a problem, but it's used as a mix up. If you can detect when she'll use, punish her lag with an OoS grab or smash or whatever. Her dtilt lock is effective against Mario and it chains into DSmash. It's perfect at finishing him off at lower percents because his recovery just isn't enough to grab the ledge.

Also her FSmash > Mario's FSmash.

The only thing Mario has is a spike and fireballs. But the spike should never hit her (due to her invisibility frames on recovery), and fireballs can just be reflected.

It's quite the grim matchup for Mario.

 

[Matt07]

Alright thanks for the discussion so far! You guys came in here fairly fast .

I have the list updated, hopefully I don't bogged down with too much work, and can keep the list updated.

 

[Palpi]

With Zelda being able to reflect fireballs and force mario to approach with Din's Fire there isn't a lot of approaches mario can do since her U smash is great against aerials. I would have to say bait her either into the air or with fireballs at mid close range because most of zelda's attacks on the ground are fairly punishable if played right.

 

[Judge Judy]

Zelda never has to take a fight to the air. Mario being aerially faster than Zelda isn't necessary an advantage. She'll catch any aerial approach from him in a USmash, and yes USmash outprioritises his entire aerial moveset.

Except Up B and cape, but I know what you mean.

She'll kill him nice and early with a DSmash from edge. Nayru's shouldn't be a problem, but it's used as a mix up. If you can detect when she'll use, punish her lag with an OoS grab or smash or whatever. Her dtilt lock is effective against Mario and it chains into DSmash. It's perfect at finishing him off at lower percents because his recovery just isn't enough to grab the ledge.

Mario can Up B out of Zelda's Dtilt lock if it doesn't trip him. Also, don't underestimate Mario recovery distance; you'll have to actually edgeguard Mario, Mario can make it back from a Dsmash.

Also her FSmash > Mario's FSmash.

Yah, except for power and range.

The only thing Mario has is a spike and fireballs. But the spike should never hit her (due to her invisibility frames on recovery), and fireballs can just be reflected.

Cape screws Zelda's recovery and FLUDD messes up her trajectory.

 

[Matador]

Oh, just Shiek then.

I'm saying 50:50. Probably amongst the most even matchups in the game.

Reason one being, both characters are combo-maniacs and can take the other to kill percentages with correct DI prediction and a bit of luck.

Shiek and Mario can also gimp the hell out of each other. We've got Fludd, cape, Fair and fireballs to try and stop Shiek's tether/upB from getting to the ledge safely, and Shiek's got Fair, Nair, Needles, vanish, and tether ledgehogs. Of course, both parties have options for dealing with the other's edgeguarding, but they aren't effective enough to consistently prevent it. I would even venture to say that a smart Shiek would probably be better at it in this matchup.

I've come to realize...that Shiek is kinda fast. Very fast in fact, so approaching is never really THAT difficult vs Mario. Fortunately for us, Mario can get in pretty easily as well with the conventional fireball followup, SHDair (to Nair if the situation calls), and spaced cape/Bairs. Approach really isn't an issue for either one.

Mario's Fsmash is rather difficult to land on Shiek, mainly because she moves so much. It's better to save your Usmash for the safer kill if you find yourself having trouble landing it. That said, Shiek is pretty light, so Mario KOs her over the top at about 120% and Fsmash can KO as low as 90% from the edge. Try to keep both fresh. Shiek's primary killing moves are Upsmash and Vanish respectively. Her DACUS moves extremely fast, so when you're at KO percentages (which are 100+ for this if you're in the air), don't jump unless it's necessary. Try you must be ready for it. Vanish kills Mario in the 110-120 range. Don't count it out, it's not THAT slow and is easily mindgamed into. I may give Mario a slight advantage in this department because he can KO out of shield, but it's really up in the air imo.

Needles are a *****. Seriously, watch out for them.

Edit: okay, so it IS Shiek and Zelda? Alright then.

 

[Judge Judy]

With Zelda being able to reflect fireballs and force mario to approach with Din's Fire there isn't a lot of approaches mario can do since her U smash is great against aerials. I would have to say bait her either into the air or with fireballs at mid close range because most of zelda's attacks on the ground are fairly punishable if played right.

Zelda can't force Mario to approach, Mario has the cape and the FLUDD can pressure Zelda towards the ledge if all she's doing is camping with Din's Fire.

 

[Zankoku]

I'd say it's 60:40 if you're adding Transform into the mix for the matchup against Sheik. That way, Sheik has superior mobility in approach, a faster yet not as versatile projectile, a slightly-harder-to-gimp recovery, and equal/superior killing power.

 

[Matador]

Zelda can't force Mario to approach, Mario has the cape and the FLUDD can pressure Zelda towards the ledge if all she's doing is camping with Din's Fire.

Yeah.,..camping near the ledge with Dins isn't very safe vs Mario. If you're Fludded off the side while doing it, you enter an automatic freefall state.

Cape protects his entire body either way, because it turns it into his own attack. You'll still be able to land it from time to time, but camping with it really isn't much of an option.

 

[HeroMystic]

With Zelda being able to reflect fireballs and force mario to approach with Din's Fire there isn't a lot of approaches mario can do since her U smash is great against aerials. I would have to say bait her either into the air or with fireballs at mid close range because most of zelda's attacks on the ground are fairly punishable if played right.

Din's fire is crap. Mario can cape it to neglect the damage or even use N-air to cancel it out. If anything Zelda has to approach because if she camps with Din's Fire then Mario can push her off the stage with FLUDD to put her in a helpless state to get an early KO.

 

[Kanzaki]

I forgot to mention, Mario's nair > Din fire.

 

[Wildfire393]

Sheik versus Mario:

Pro Sheik:
Sheik has insanely good combo options. Even if Mario isn't ultra-vulnerable to Ftilt locking, an Ftilt still almost always means a second one and then a Utilt.
Sheik has superior range with most of her options.
Sheik has a superior projectile.
Sheik's edgeguarding options wreck Mario's mediocre recovery. A slap offstage will almost always KO if done after the double-jump, regardless of percentage. Tether Hogging can keep him from Up-Bing to the ledge.
Sheik is faster in almost every category (ground speed, air speed, attack speed)
Sheik's recovery is hard for Mario to gimp. Tether can't be caped or FLUDDed, Up-B is very difficult to FLUDD and can't be caped if done to the edge.
Tipper Usmash kills better than anything Mario has.
Sheik's non-Tipper-Usmash KO moves are on-average easier to land than Mario's.

Pro Mario:
Sheik's fastfalling makes her vulnerable to Utilt and Uair juggles.
Mario's KO options KO better than anything Sheik has except the Tipper Usmash.
Uh... that's about all I've got.

 

[Judge Judy]

Also, Zelda/Sheik has to get you away to transform or else it's a free hit.