It's not one of Marth's "easier" match ups, considering other 60:40s that are around.
It's important that stage striking is used effectively. Final Destination and Smashville (one more so than the other) are our natural enemies.
We should be able to win on our counterpicks: Norfair, Rainbow Cruise; and Battlefield and Lylat aren't bad either.
In game we have Dolphin Slash (if theres a platform...) to avoid anything 'dangerous'. It's one of the [high tier] match ups thats we still have to zone with dtilt.
Fairs to split them up; counter for blizzard and squall hammer.
I don't "get" this match up at all really, people who main them in my area either suck or gave up once I got over their initial hurdles/predictable crap. I don't understand how the character ticks, like let's say MK or Wario... I guess they're just that dynamic.. whilst being that dangerous.
Neutral match up is feasible.
Whilst on character traits only we have the advantage... 'mentally' our marth mains struggle with this match up, theres no autopilot here, Marth can't float or air camp, or have a never ending multi hit move to fall back on. It takes real EXPERIENCE in this match up to win it.
this match up is very stage dependant
We're going to win on our counterpick, but we're in for trouble on Smashville.... or if we're stupid to not ban Final Destination (without changing characters...)
I'd prefer the Ice Climbers to get in on this; most Marths all over are pretty split. Including myself.
Neo hates this match up
Kadaj hates this match up
Pierce thinks it's fine
I hate it, because it's STUPID.
Meep and Lain, the two real IC placers have had little to no signifance in West Coast America (I think?) - i.e. Mike, Bardull, etc; and I'm not sure if Hylian even plays ICs anymore to impact Texan marfs.
RAGE MATCH UP.
This is one of those match-ups which really won't solidify for another year. IC are only recently becoming popular, and only a few people have mastered them. There is no IC in my region yet (Atomsk is picking them up, but the IC main that lives near me goes to college so I'm just finally going to get to play him for the first time in months in a few days)
lain's strategy is entirely based off of winning game 1.
DON'T LET THEM WIN GAME 1. HOLY CHRIST.
Easier said than done, but agreed largely.
another reason why i think legalizing yoshi's and lylat for neutrals again would be good (it also lowers mk's power level on game 1)
the most important thing bardull taught me was, after the first f-air you have to be relentless, split them up, n-air, f-smash, f-air strings, d-tilt off the edge, just keep attacking, go for the f-air gimp on nana then you can drop down and up b stage spike when you know popo will try to save guaranteeing the kill
the easy way to do this is after you send nana far off stage and popo is on stage, is to grab the ledge and keep doing the mikehaze stall (let go immediate forward air horizontal up b regrab the ledge) over and over... but never do the up b that in the off chance they do grab the ledge you get gimped
Also, if you hit one IC out of sideB, the other goes into freefall. This is a tricky move though, so I counter it a lot. Counter is PIVOTAL in this match-up.
Well I have experience with this match-up thanks to my friend Phresh. You definitely want to one and pressure, but do NOT whiff and aerial, as they can catch you in the landing lag, and Popo can hold you long enough for Nana to catch up from ridiculous distances. Dtilt and Fair, defintiely platform camp. A de-sync, approaching blizzard is a pain, but practice with counter should get it.
I HATE this match-up more then anything in Brawl lol.
Dtilt jab is also good, because a lot of people will drop their shield after a dtilt, so the jab will be quick to catch them off guard. It will never be perfect shielded, and it's fast and unpredictable, therefore extremely difficult to punish with a grab, especially because if you think you see a dash in, you can throw the second jab.
Well, if a Smart IC plays a smart Marth ...
and if they both use the same amount of common sense....
And both posses the same match up exp...
Marth is gonna win most of the time.
Actually, no. As I've said before, IC, like Diddy, is a rare match-up which is in Marth's favor, but forces Marth to play a different game. Usually, most characters have to beat Marth at his own game. However, in this case, due to the sheer overwhelming power of the grab, Marth must adjust to fight IC, while they play their normal, standard game. Yes, they need to know how to fight Marth specifically, but like Diddy, Marth needs more match-up experience vs. IC to stand a chance against a competent one. I'm TERRIFIED of fighting Meep or Lain right now, because despite me believing I have the advantage, my exp in the match-up is lax, and there really is no way to remedy this until I can get a chance to play with my friend who is home for the summer. This gives me minimal time before Genesis. But I digress. My point is that Marth has to play this getting in and out game, instead of his usual pressure and **** game. IC just do their regular shiz. The Marth player has advantage, but needs to know the match-up at an extreme competent level.
Me and pierce think it's 55 45.
QFT. If IC play to their strengths, which is rather solid priority in all directions, and learn to take advantage of the fact that Marth is weak from below, and learn what to do vs. platform camping, it really gives them another edge, just not enough to compete with Marth's sword. You ESPECIALLY can't challange with Dair in this match-up. It's so funny how pivotal Counter is, in a match where a grab is death. Using this in the air to block Uairs and other shenanigans is super important from what I can see.
i like to just keep them seperated and combo video. **** ice climbers. if they're ****ers and use the ice breathe, counter them and be like boobam motha ****a, then after they get accostumed be like "BAITSIES" then they'll get hit for sure
fun fact: when ice climbers are upB'ing to grab the edge, if you time it right, you can run off and fair, killing one of them (during the upb rope animation)
Fun fact: If you have the timing of a god, you can edgehog right after Belay is initiated, and IC will both launch themselves towards the targeted edge as intended, but as you are already hogging it, they will fall to their deaths.
Thought you were going to tell us some cool glitch or something, not some practical advice.. whats wrong with you.
