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Match-Up Discussion: Solid Snake
- Thread starter Meru.
- Start date
Meru.
I like spicy food
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2008
- Messages
- 3,835
- Location
- The Netherlands, sometimes Japan
- NNID
- Merudi
- 3DS FC
- 0963-1622-2801
Ive come to the conclusion that there is no way Snake is harder than MK. MK pressures Peach really well and Snake's "pressure" doesnt even come close to that. Many of our tools are safe vs Snake whereas they can be punished by MK. And the best thing vs Snake is that he's gets pressure severely by Peach. MK doesnt get nearly as much pressured by Peach.
There are some things that Snake does better than MK, such as forcing an approach and the fact that MK dies much earlier, but that's simply not enough.
4:6 Snake's favor at worst.
There are some things that Snake does better than MK, such as forcing an approach and the fact that MK dies much earlier, but that's simply not enough.
4:6 Snake's favor at worst.
Silly Kyle
Smash Champion
I'll write a summary later...
But here is a lot of video footage I have taken recently with my best friend Tommy, who mains Snake. He is one of the main reasons I have learned the matchup so well. I have beaten every Snake here in AZ and the only out of state Snake I played, I also beat.
Anywho...
Here are some videos. If you watch them all, I guarantee you'll learn a thing or two about how to fight Snake. I do plenty of good things and a few bad things too! He might not be the best, but the practice is still helpful. I win in most of these videos, but he wins in a few of them too. These are just some of the matches that were selected out of many replays that were saved.
Silly Kyle vs. TommyDerMeister
Match 1: YI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9KJo-QBSnE
Match 2: SV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVrw_3glNak
Match 3: YI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AExU6i6JFkg
Match 4: FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYQyRdfcHkU
Match 5: SV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCx0rPkpibc
Match 6: FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y97I8zySHuk
Match 7: BF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix_wKMlpShE
Match 8: BF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAw9bM-RC0s
Match 9: Pictochat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD794k7J1mY
Match 10: PS1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqf8zjXcK8U
Match 11: PS1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx6B9d9SsKQ
Match 12: CS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkCDaMhsCLQ
Match 13: Halberd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyEqHuGpD3k
Match 14: Delfino
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLOR2RHQJ7I
Match 15: BF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3dvtyUKkoY
Match 16: SV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1jZDHAcBBQ
But here is a lot of video footage I have taken recently with my best friend Tommy, who mains Snake. He is one of the main reasons I have learned the matchup so well. I have beaten every Snake here in AZ and the only out of state Snake I played, I also beat.
Anywho...
Here are some videos. If you watch them all, I guarantee you'll learn a thing or two about how to fight Snake. I do plenty of good things and a few bad things too! He might not be the best, but the practice is still helpful. I win in most of these videos, but he wins in a few of them too. These are just some of the matches that were selected out of many replays that were saved.
Silly Kyle
vs. TommyDerMeister Match 1: YI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9KJo-QBSnE
Match 2: SV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVrw_3glNak
Match 3: YI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AExU6i6JFkg
Match 4: FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYQyRdfcHkU
Match 5: SV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCx0rPkpibc
Match 6: FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y97I8zySHuk
Match 7: BF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix_wKMlpShE
Match 8: BF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAw9bM-RC0s
Match 9: Pictochat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD794k7J1mY
Match 10: PS1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqf8zjXcK8U
Match 11: PS1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx6B9d9SsKQ
Match 12: CS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkCDaMhsCLQ
Match 13: Halberd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyEqHuGpD3k
Match 14: Delfino
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLOR2RHQJ7I
Match 15: BF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3dvtyUKkoY
Match 16: SV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1jZDHAcBBQ
Metatitan
Smash Master
He killed himself too much.
I like the BF texture hack though.
I like the BF texture hack though.
TommyDerMeister
Smash Lord
I was pretty blazed in most of those matches...
honestly though, I do SD a lot, even when not freshly baked.
Just another one of those things to work on...
honestly though, I do SD a lot, even when not freshly baked.
Just another one of those things to work on...
Metatitan
Smash Master
You should also recover from above, Peach has trouble chasing snake
Zepher Noron
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2010
- Messages
- 4
I took the time to read this whole thread. And a few things I must say. First off. Stop saying things like " Well I play Razor, etc, and they know me well/ play me alot. So what I say is truth." Do people actually realize that proves nothing at all? When when these players are far better than you are and Peach players at best are medicore atm. No Peach is on the same level of player skill as these snakes. You play good snakes, so you got the expeirece. But cause of that, what makes it thinking you are doing it right/wrong with these kill level Peach players are on today. This is one big problem with this Peach community. it's a waste of time that can be use to get better. And does not help at all.
These players are not in the game. The characters they use are. And that's what you should stick too. The character. Bring up players just leads to useless BS as this thread has already gone through.
Seriously, this needs to stop if people wanna get better. complaining and etc. wont change a thing, nor make you better.
Now with all this said, getting on snake. I am reading alot about snake camping and all that stuff. it being so horrible and etc. Long ago this method was explained. And only a few payed attention. The rest ether complained or etc. But look at how far complaining has gotten people.
Now then, I remembered grenades take about 3-4 secs to set off. And if one hits you, It has no stun at all. Next thing I put into mind is that Snake has to use a small portion of his shield to drop a grenade. Also took into account that he can only launch 2 at a time and if he launches 2, one has to go set off to dish out another. So keep in mind how long it takes one to go off.
So yea, while playing a snake that would camp and not really approach I say to myself "Not going near you" Cause one way or another, he will stop that grenade camping. But he just does not know it yet. When he tosses a grenade my way, I would pick one up and toss it back IF he did not hold it for too long. If not, Float over it and let it go boom. Ether way I am not getting hit. So his plan for damage and making me go to him is already failing.
After that I would just grab a turnip and toss it ether in his area or at a grenade. Three things can happen when you toss a turnip at a grenade:
- It sets off
- It drops in the spot the turnip hit the grenade.
- It gets sent back to snake.
Now while this is going on. Snake shield is getting eaten more by him camping. Why? Because while he goes to drop a grenade with his SHIELD, He has a turnip comming his way, so he has to worry about that. Same time, there is a grenade there. (Keep in mind it has not set off yet). Now by the time he deals with these 2 problems. You already have another turnip in your hand ready to toss at snake. And when that turnip is sent flying. snake might be in the middle of pulling out a grenade.
Now instead of 2 of them comming at you. it would be mostly one grenade comming at you. You can send more turnips at snake then he can send grenades at you. This is costing his shield cause of him dropping nades and turnips comming at him. So 2 things he needs to be concerned about. And as I said before, if he tosses them at you to quick, toss it right back and have a turnip follow.
**Note- When people camp you, they are usually pinned to a corner. Since they stay on one area. Not if you get near them they can't really game. or it is free punishment. They have to get past you to camp again. And they only have 2 ways of doing this. Trhough you or above you. Ether way, the player has to fight to get his freedom of space and camp again.
"what if he just goes to you, drops a nade and rolls away" It drops it a few feet away from him?"
Better off for you. This helps kill his camping cause Snake can't drop **** on the ground without that shield of his. Snake needs a shield to grenade camp.
"But Snakes can just Side step without having to shield to drop a grenade."
It does not matter. They don't set off till like 3-4 secs While doing all of that you can send at least one turnip in his way. You can send 2 at once if you turnip juggle.
Now as this process continues, his shield gets smaller, now you start moving in slowly. To a point through all this, there will be an opening where you can go in and pound him. He can't defend himself cause You just out camped his azz and it costed him his shield. And if he shields, that shield will break. So for all that, now he can't defend himself. Also by outcamping snake, you rack up more damage on him then he WAS suppose to on you. And guess what the best part was? You ready for this? You did not use one kill move. All your moves are fresh. and from that camping you got himt to like, 40-60. Cause from this not only will turnips hit him, his grenades can too, wether you toss them back at him OR you have turnips hit them and go back to snake.
3-4 secs for grenades to go BOOM. Turnips to get to snake and hit him? 1-2 secs. Also best to mix up turnip tosses in the air and ground. But keep your position. When that shield is getting taken away from shanke, then move in slow while keeping that camping game going.
You need to be patience, if you dont have any against snake and just wanna go to him and dair him cause he is easy to combo and etc, throw this fight out the window now. You are not gonna beat a campy snake. Snakes want you to rush him like that. Thus why they camp on you. Patience is IMPORTANT to do this. And once again. You will need a defense game. if you don't have one, your butt is grass. A typical Peach game with the floating and dairs and all that aint working on a campy snake.
Now that camping snakes are done, time to focus on dealing with him in general. Here is what you guys need to understand. It's ok to worry about what gets you in match ups. But seriously need to stop crying and going on about that so much. From all this you can know off the top what the problems are. So why not focus on what you can actually do here. Learn to abuse the weak spots of the enemy, just like the enemy love to do to us. And Peach is a character that has alot of tools to abuse alot of characters weak points. Now Look here:
The Disadvantage Vs Snake:
- he is good and field control. You will have to be aware about the field and him at the same time. He has some nasty set ups
- he can kill you welll and has many options for it
- He can force you to stay away from him or approach him. Pretty much he can control the match.
- he can kill your air game but not by alot.
- He can edguard you well unless you are high up coming to the stage.
- can camp you.
- his moves are pretty fast and have priority at some points.
- He can pressure you well.
- Hard to kill.
- Ground game is better than yours
The advantage Vs Snake:
- Can edguard him well.
- Can pressure him really well.
- air game is better
- Have more combat speed then he does.
- Gimp off the up-B
- Once he is in the air he can be pretty hopeless and not too hard to hit. And get loks of damage off this. Turnip juggles ***** in this case.
- Glide tossing can beat his dash cancel upsmash. or just toss one or Jab him.
- Get damage of of him well.
- turnips used right can screw over his ground game.
- More ways to approach
Now all this said. You see how good and bad it is. Protect the bad with the good. protect your weak points with your strong one.
One thing I noticed is that with Peach, people try to kill too early and don't think. Like why are you swinging fairs so much when snake is at 82%. He is not dieing. You have to get him at high% to kill snake. These is where you abuses Peach abilities to rack up damage, get him at that %, then go for the kills. Thus playing aggressive 24/7 is bad. cause you are decreasing your chances of killing by burning kill moves. Same time, an aggressive Peach is not hard to stop. Really when one is camping you.
So more people need to start thinking about that. Keep him in the air alot. if you are center stage and you grab him, throw him up. His air mobility is not all that,same with his air game. Snakes get abused alot when in the air. Pummel him a few times, then toss him for extra damage. Don't toss him right away. More damage the better. Even 1% game make a difference. You be surprised. And when in the air, abuse turnip juggles. people seriously need to get on that and not ignore important things like this.
Jab cancles can also screw up snake and increase her pressure game by a small %.
Now if you have a Snake that likes to be DACUS happy, here are ways to stop it:
- Jab him
- Glide toss
- Smash attack
- Short hop dairs
- Floated Dairs
- Ground floated air attacks
- Just toss a turnip at him
BUT PAY ATTENTION. Some people have poor reaction time. That is the only mobility that snake has and you can crush it in many ways. He is not fast in the air or ground. So abuse this.
Situational questions:
????: If you jab you'll miss and get ftilted
Solution: The jab is the safest thing you have in this case. your jab is 2 frames. Space your jabs and you can also try to space jab cancels to pull him back and get some room. I started using her jab cancels for cases like this. it works against this type of thing.
????: if you sh dair or float dair it'll be a utilt or utilt oos
Solution: if you do this and go behind him to a bair, he can't hit you. and if he shields it you can pop your shield to defend his counter attack and roll away. Or reverse Jab Also it takes 7 frames to drop the shield, and add that to shield stun of the atten, then the frames for the move to come out. So yea, done right, he can't punish you out of shield.
????: if you camp shield he'll just utilt when your shield depletes and kill you
Solution: Not alot do this, But just jab out the shield. if he is behind you too do this as well. Reverse jab out of shield. Easy 2 frame move out of shield and stops people in thier tracks
????: if you pull turnip, u'll get killed
Solution: Why would you even think that. Thats pretty foolish. That should not be an option to think about at all. Don't get turnips while near anyone.
???: toad miiiiiight save u but it's risky and if it doesn't work you die
Solution: Thats all mindgame metaerial. Depends on how good you can read your enemy and how slick you are.
???: rolling behind snake miiiiiiiiight work but it's really risky b/c her roll is not that good.
Solution: Thats what people really want you to do. when one is pinned to a corner, the most typical thing a play would do is roll to the player and you are finished. Thats why when I play people and I have them near the edge I don't move. They **** thier pants thinking I will attack them. or have no clue what I will do. And they rule right to me and I did not have to do anything. I do this all the time to people. So no, don't even think about that
My ratio for this as of now is that 45:55. Snake slighty wins.
These players are not in the game. The characters they use are. And that's what you should stick too. The character. Bring up players just leads to useless BS as this thread has already gone through.
People really need to think out the box. Ok so it takes Snake one frame to pull it out. Now how many frames does it take for them to explode? And what can you actually do within that time frame? Also turnips can stop grenades. They don't go through. And in some cases, the turnips can send the grenades back to snake. Before they are set off.
Means nothing and does not help the discussion. Stop doing things like this. if you have nothing to say, then don't post. Cause as I said before, post like this lead to useless crap.
How about putting the blame on Peach players for a chance and not cause of the characters. People make excuses like this all the time. The reason Peach players lose to snake alot is due to reasons that the snake players are much better players in general then the Peach players. And also the fact that Peach players are not on a highly skilled level yet.
Seriously, this needs to stop if people wanna get better. complaining and etc. wont change a thing, nor make you better.
Peach does not have trouble tech chasing. I can tech chase any character in this game with just F-B alone. Now this is one of the many slick ways Peach has to tech chase people.
Now with all this said, getting on snake. I am reading alot about snake camping and all that stuff. it being so horrible and etc. Long ago this method was explained. And only a few payed attention. The rest ether complained or etc. But look at how far complaining has gotten people.
Now then, I remembered grenades take about 3-4 secs to set off. And if one hits you, It has no stun at all. Next thing I put into mind is that Snake has to use a small portion of his shield to drop a grenade. Also took into account that he can only launch 2 at a time and if he launches 2, one has to go set off to dish out another. So keep in mind how long it takes one to go off.
So yea, while playing a snake that would camp and not really approach I say to myself "Not going near you" Cause one way or another, he will stop that grenade camping. But he just does not know it yet. When he tosses a grenade my way, I would pick one up and toss it back IF he did not hold it for too long. If not, Float over it and let it go boom. Ether way I am not getting hit. So his plan for damage and making me go to him is already failing.
After that I would just grab a turnip and toss it ether in his area or at a grenade. Three things can happen when you toss a turnip at a grenade:
- It sets off
- It drops in the spot the turnip hit the grenade.
- It gets sent back to snake.
Now while this is going on. Snake shield is getting eaten more by him camping. Why? Because while he goes to drop a grenade with his SHIELD, He has a turnip comming his way, so he has to worry about that. Same time, there is a grenade there. (Keep in mind it has not set off yet). Now by the time he deals with these 2 problems. You already have another turnip in your hand ready to toss at snake. And when that turnip is sent flying. snake might be in the middle of pulling out a grenade.
Now instead of 2 of them comming at you. it would be mostly one grenade comming at you. You can send more turnips at snake then he can send grenades at you. This is costing his shield cause of him dropping nades and turnips comming at him. So 2 things he needs to be concerned about. And as I said before, if he tosses them at you to quick, toss it right back and have a turnip follow.
**Note- When people camp you, they are usually pinned to a corner. Since they stay on one area. Not if you get near them they can't really game. or it is free punishment. They have to get past you to camp again. And they only have 2 ways of doing this. Trhough you or above you. Ether way, the player has to fight to get his freedom of space and camp again.
"what if he just goes to you, drops a nade and rolls away" It drops it a few feet away from him?"
Better off for you. This helps kill his camping cause Snake can't drop **** on the ground without that shield of his. Snake needs a shield to grenade camp.
"But Snakes can just Side step without having to shield to drop a grenade."
It does not matter. They don't set off till like 3-4 secs While doing all of that you can send at least one turnip in his way. You can send 2 at once if you turnip juggle.
Now as this process continues, his shield gets smaller, now you start moving in slowly. To a point through all this, there will be an opening where you can go in and pound him. He can't defend himself cause You just out camped his azz and it costed him his shield. And if he shields, that shield will break. So for all that, now he can't defend himself. Also by outcamping snake, you rack up more damage on him then he WAS suppose to on you. And guess what the best part was? You ready for this? You did not use one kill move. All your moves are fresh. and from that camping you got himt to like, 40-60. Cause from this not only will turnips hit him, his grenades can too, wether you toss them back at him OR you have turnips hit them and go back to snake.
3-4 secs for grenades to go BOOM. Turnips to get to snake and hit him? 1-2 secs. Also best to mix up turnip tosses in the air and ground. But keep your position. When that shield is getting taken away from shanke, then move in slow while keeping that camping game going.
You need to be patience, if you dont have any against snake and just wanna go to him and dair him cause he is easy to combo and etc, throw this fight out the window now. You are not gonna beat a campy snake. Snakes want you to rush him like that. Thus why they camp on you. Patience is IMPORTANT to do this. And once again. You will need a defense game. if you don't have one, your butt is grass. A typical Peach game with the floating and dairs and all that aint working on a campy snake.
Now that camping snakes are done, time to focus on dealing with him in general. Here is what you guys need to understand. It's ok to worry about what gets you in match ups. But seriously need to stop crying and going on about that so much. From all this you can know off the top what the problems are. So why not focus on what you can actually do here. Learn to abuse the weak spots of the enemy, just like the enemy love to do to us. And Peach is a character that has alot of tools to abuse alot of characters weak points. Now Look here:
The Disadvantage Vs Snake:
- he is good and field control. You will have to be aware about the field and him at the same time. He has some nasty set ups
- he can kill you welll and has many options for it
- He can force you to stay away from him or approach him. Pretty much he can control the match.
- he can kill your air game but not by alot.
- He can edguard you well unless you are high up coming to the stage.
- can camp you.
- his moves are pretty fast and have priority at some points.
- He can pressure you well.
- Hard to kill.
- Ground game is better than yours
The advantage Vs Snake:
- Can edguard him well.
- Can pressure him really well.
- air game is better
- Have more combat speed then he does.
- Gimp off the up-B
- Once he is in the air he can be pretty hopeless and not too hard to hit. And get loks of damage off this. Turnip juggles ***** in this case.
- Glide tossing can beat his dash cancel upsmash. or just toss one or Jab him.
- Get damage of of him well.
- turnips used right can screw over his ground game.
- More ways to approach
Now all this said. You see how good and bad it is. Protect the bad with the good. protect your weak points with your strong one.
One thing I noticed is that with Peach, people try to kill too early and don't think. Like why are you swinging fairs so much when snake is at 82%. He is not dieing. You have to get him at high% to kill snake. These is where you abuses Peach abilities to rack up damage, get him at that %, then go for the kills. Thus playing aggressive 24/7 is bad. cause you are decreasing your chances of killing by burning kill moves. Same time, an aggressive Peach is not hard to stop. Really when one is camping you.
So more people need to start thinking about that. Keep him in the air alot. if you are center stage and you grab him, throw him up. His air mobility is not all that,same with his air game. Snakes get abused alot when in the air. Pummel him a few times, then toss him for extra damage. Don't toss him right away. More damage the better. Even 1% game make a difference. You be surprised. And when in the air, abuse turnip juggles. people seriously need to get on that and not ignore important things like this.
Jab cancles can also screw up snake and increase her pressure game by a small %.
Now if you have a Snake that likes to be DACUS happy, here are ways to stop it:
- Jab him
- Glide toss
- Smash attack
- Short hop dairs
- Floated Dairs
- Ground floated air attacks
- Just toss a turnip at him
BUT PAY ATTENTION. Some people have poor reaction time. That is the only mobility that snake has and you can crush it in many ways. He is not fast in the air or ground. So abuse this.
Situational questions:
????: If you jab you'll miss and get ftilted
Solution: The jab is the safest thing you have in this case. your jab is 2 frames. Space your jabs and you can also try to space jab cancels to pull him back and get some room. I started using her jab cancels for cases like this. it works against this type of thing.
????: if you sh dair or float dair it'll be a utilt or utilt oos
Solution: if you do this and go behind him to a bair, he can't hit you. and if he shields it you can pop your shield to defend his counter attack and roll away. Or reverse Jab Also it takes 7 frames to drop the shield, and add that to shield stun of the atten, then the frames for the move to come out. So yea, done right, he can't punish you out of shield.
????: if you camp shield he'll just utilt when your shield depletes and kill you
Solution: Not alot do this, But just jab out the shield. if he is behind you too do this as well. Reverse jab out of shield. Easy 2 frame move out of shield and stops people in thier tracks
????: if you pull turnip, u'll get killed
Solution: Why would you even think that. Thats pretty foolish. That should not be an option to think about at all. Don't get turnips while near anyone.
???: toad miiiiiight save u but it's risky and if it doesn't work you die
Solution: Thats all mindgame metaerial. Depends on how good you can read your enemy and how slick you are.
???: rolling behind snake miiiiiiiiight work but it's really risky b/c her roll is not that good.
Solution: Thats what people really want you to do. when one is pinned to a corner, the most typical thing a play would do is roll to the player and you are finished. Thats why when I play people and I have them near the edge I don't move. They **** thier pants thinking I will attack them. or have no clue what I will do. And they rule right to me and I did not have to do anything. I do this all the time to people. So no, don't even think about that
My ratio for this as of now is that 45:55. Snake slighty wins.
Silly Kyle
Smash Champion
Ok Dark Pch. Thanks. <3
Meru.
I like spicy food
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2008
- Messages
- 3,835
- Location
- The Netherlands, sometimes Japan
- NNID
- Merudi
- 3DS FC
- 0963-1622-2801
He means chasing Snake while he recovers from above.
I disagree with that though. You simply have to be patient and look where X meets Y. Abuse your float. Im bad at maths but even I can still figure so Im sure others can too @_@.
Queen B. Kyon
Smash Master
I put I play hrnut so he doesn't think he is the only one with good snake practice. Nothing more. However if I posted that I beat him and that's it then id find that useless. But then again that wouldn't cause problems. More of useful questions to be exact. Im fully aware of what's useless and what is usefull. I don't need some one telling me what is and what isn't. From what I saw what I posted didn't impact anyone but you it seems. People aren't you so there mind sets on things being "usefull" are different from yours. Thank you for all the input you put after bashing all those posts though.
Eddie G
Smash Hero
Lol at Snake players being better players than us in general. Snake has a few solid players at the top and one "hero" player. The rest are average, and the only thing they're justifiably "better" at than us at is being a Snake player. And the same applies the other way around.
Snake is also generally a better character than Peach. Megablox sized hitboxes, crazy damage off of d-throw reads, kill powerrrrrrr. His learning curve is a respectable one when getting into higher levels of play but I guarantee he is nowhere near as mentally straining on the player in the long run. That being said, I can't stand when people try to make comparisons between players' skill, especially different character mains. That comparison is simply not a solid basis for those kinds of claims. The only thing that will ever prove who the better player is between two respective people is a tournament set/s (or to a lesser extent: a MM), that's it.
Dark, for your sake I hope that's not you spurting off at the mouth again (under an alt this time). I'm still not happy about the last time.
Snake is also generally a better character than Peach. Megablox sized hitboxes, crazy damage off of d-throw reads, kill powerrrrrrr. His learning curve is a respectable one when getting into higher levels of play but I guarantee he is nowhere near as mentally straining on the player in the long run. That being said, I can't stand when people try to make comparisons between players' skill, especially different character mains. That comparison is simply not a solid basis for those kinds of claims. The only thing that will ever prove who the better player is between two respective people is a tournament set/s (or to a lesser extent: a MM), that's it.
Dark, for your sake I hope that's not you spurting off at the mouth again (under an alt this time). I'm still not happy about the last time.
Meru.
I like spicy food
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Please cut it out :l. No offensive things or pretty much anything that isnt about Peach - Snake after this post please or Air will kill you, ok thanks.
@ Dark, you can also simply float your Dair away after it has been shielded, his Utilt will not reach you and you can punish if he whiffs it.
@ Dark, you can also simply float your Dair away after it has been shielded, his Utilt will not reach you and you can punish if he whiffs it.
Razmakazi
Smash Champion
oh more trolling. excellent peach boards.
Airgemini
Chansey
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Guys, get back to Snake please.
If you have nothing left to say about the match-up then simply don't post.
If you have nothing left to say about the match-up then simply don't post.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1TYsYv4hQE&feature=fvw
Considering what chansey is capable of, I say we take Air's advice and move on.
How about stage discussion in regards to Snake? I have not seen any advice on that yet I believe.
Considering what chansey is capable of, I say we take Air's advice and move on.
How about stage discussion in regards to Snake? I have not seen any advice on that yet I believe.
C.S. Dinah
Smash Champion
Really? I'd take him there.... Battlefield not so much. I seem to always pick either Greens or Brinstar for some reason.
/luckfactorlol
/luckfactorlol
C.S. Dinah
Smash Champion
I dont think he does. I managed to take a game off him just because of that one stage.
But I really just think that his luck is simply horrible there looool.
But I really just think that his luck is simply horrible there looool.
LanceStern
Smash Lord
I would think Green Greens would be terrible to CP versus snake.
You have a really small close quarters stage where he can basically control almost any side he wants with his grenades, mines and tilts. Low ceiling means you'd die to uptilt at like 80% or less...
Can you guys refute me?
You have a really small close quarters stage where he can basically control almost any side he wants with his grenades, mines and tilts. Low ceiling means you'd die to uptilt at like 80% or less...
Can you guys refute me?
Eddie G
Smash Hero
Let Air do his own job.
On Topic: Never counterpick Snake to Green Greens for the reasons Lance has stated. In fact, I highly recommend Battlefield against him. He has good stage control on Battlefield but Peach can control the momentum of the match just as much as he can there, if not more due to her distinct proficiency with platforms. Snakes generally choose to neutral toss/soft toss their grenades onto nearby platforms as a means of defense, and will also neutral toss a nade while in the air onto a platform across the stage and shield to plant it there. This is typically a safe defensive/offensive conditioning strategy for him here but it also serves as a means for Peach's approach and/or punish via timed quicktosses. Conditioning Snakes to not rely on said tactic as much will prompt an increase in his nadedrop nearby OoS defensive play if he has the lead, and possibly an increase in aerial activity if he is behind. Keep this in mind.
Also, remember to take the position that Falcos utilize on this stage: stand underneath a side platform but slightly more toward the nearest ledge. This position will aid your own defensive play against Snake's barrage of stage control options. His aerial approaches will mostly be severed due to turnips, u-tilts, toad if he's feeling ballsy with his full jump nair, etc. His nades can be stopped with turnips, powershielded, spotdodged, or quicktossed back (generally safe options, just keep an eye on where he is and what mixups he might try). His DACUS is rather simple to deal with from this position, just use Peach's general punish options (groundfloat nair/bair, f-smash, sometimes jab, turnip) for it if he performs it (not to mention the platform nullifies the interference of the mortar itself if it happens to come out before you punish his slide). C4-on-the-platform attempts are not difficult to avoid, either shift your positioning underneath the platform or just back a little further out toward the ledge, and just be aware of the bomb anyway so as not to get lured back into your previous positioning.
It's generally a very safe position if Peach wants to play keep away from his close quarters kill options while she has a lead. If you happen to fall behind, focus harder on getting him above you as much as possible. I've had success against Snakes on this stage enough to know that it is a solid counterpick option against him. I hope this helps.
Gea
Smash Master
I advise against Rainbow Cruise. You can be forced into many really bad spots because of how short our jumps are.
LanceStern
Smash Lord
This really is such a frustrating matchup...
I find a little bit of success by almost full-hop floating so that he can't tilt, his grenades don't blow up and any move he throws out is fairly obvious. I harassed a friend in friendlies today by doing this.
I find a little bit of success by almost full-hop floating so that he can't tilt, his grenades don't blow up and any move he throws out is fairly obvious. I harassed a friend in friendlies today by doing this.
Control Freak
Smash Rookie
Likely its been said already somewhere..but my main frustration is this. That he can live twice as high as you and his moves do generally speaking twice as much. Its utterly ridiculous. My brother plays snake alot and this is one of the hardest matchups for the above reason. You can play better and still lose easily, you have to play much better. Doing some basic comboing isn't too hard usually but when you are at 80% and he's at 160% he might still have the advantage. I'm kind of a busy person, but can somebody point me to the best post or two in this thread so I can read up on it.
I'm kind of a busy person, but can somebody point me to the best post or two in this thread so I can read up on it.
Silly Kyle
Smash Champion
I also like to add that if you are in tournament against a Snake, is to always try to get the 4th port. Seriously. RPS that ****.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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I think we need to get some more snakes in here. Right now, the current objections with Snake and pretty much everywhere else is that Snake cannot do jack about returning to the stage. He hits harder, kills faster, but how much of that is outweighted by the fact he takes much damage in returning to the stage?
I also second Kbizzle's opinion on playing on battlefield. The stage is ideal for either for keeping the other off the ground, but it's probably worse for snake than it is for peach with platform play. Snake cannot reach the top platform at all very easily. He has to take a lot of time out of his way to put anything up on the top platform. Mortars are useless as Nair will cancel with them, and it auto-cancels when you hit the platform. C4 and grenades you can see place on there. Grenades are not that big of a deal if you are used to the timing of nades. C4 is flagged by a "Now" before detonation. And the rest of the time he has to 2nd jump to even hit you with Bair (FH Uair barely reaches the bottom of the top platform and if you aim your landing right, it's a very skinny hitbox that Snake has to aim correctly with to hit you. Either way, landing on the top platform gives you the chance to get back to the stage more easily.
^Poor Picture, but it illistrates what I am about to get at.
The blue outlined area is Snake's ground range typically. It's just a bit above the lower platforms. The green outlined box is the area of Snake's aerials at the height of the jumps. If you recieve knockback, safe your 2nd jump and float until you reach the red area, you should be able to reach the top platform and work your way down again. Floating allows you to Nair any mortars sent your way. This pretty much leaves only aerials for Snake to hit you with. If snake attempts to jump at you, he must use his 2nd jump to hit you up there. In that instance, he has to be committed to hitting you and you know that you can evade him by merely floating around his aerial,airdodge through it, or 2nd jump over it. If he does not, you still get the chance to return to the top platform where it's hard for Snake to hit you, and as I said, you can work from there to get the rest of the way down.
http://i56.tinypic.com/25ixjj8.png
I also second Kbizzle's opinion on playing on battlefield. The stage is ideal for either for keeping the other off the ground, but it's probably worse for snake than it is for peach with platform play. Snake cannot reach the top platform at all very easily. He has to take a lot of time out of his way to put anything up on the top platform. Mortars are useless as Nair will cancel with them, and it auto-cancels when you hit the platform. C4 and grenades you can see place on there. Grenades are not that big of a deal if you are used to the timing of nades. C4 is flagged by a "Now" before detonation. And the rest of the time he has to 2nd jump to even hit you with Bair (FH Uair barely reaches the bottom of the top platform and if you aim your landing right, it's a very skinny hitbox that Snake has to aim correctly with to hit you. Either way, landing on the top platform gives you the chance to get back to the stage more easily.
^Poor Picture, but it illistrates what I am about to get at.
The blue outlined area is Snake's ground range typically. It's just a bit above the lower platforms. The green outlined box is the area of Snake's aerials at the height of the jumps. If you recieve knockback, safe your 2nd jump and float until you reach the red area, you should be able to reach the top platform and work your way down again. Floating allows you to Nair any mortars sent your way. This pretty much leaves only aerials for Snake to hit you with. If snake attempts to jump at you, he must use his 2nd jump to hit you up there. In that instance, he has to be committed to hitting you and you know that you can evade him by merely floating around his aerial,airdodge through it, or 2nd jump over it. If he does not, you still get the chance to return to the top platform where it's hard for Snake to hit you, and as I said, you can work from there to get the rest of the way down.
http://i56.tinypic.com/25ixjj8.png