Match-Up Discussion: Solid Snake

[z00ted]

When have you even played Razer lately?

herp derp.
As a matter of fact: who are you?

 

[Gea]

Play Razer's Snake in the matchup then play Gnes (Yes he can play snake too). Just because I don't prostitute myself out to every Smashfest doesn't mean I don't know what's up. You don't have to have such a bad attitude.

Like I said, I don't think he knows this particular matchup because it's one where playing normally without doing matchup specific stuff still gives him the win. Don't try to defend everyone who you think you're cool with, they can handle themselves.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Sigh........

Well I'll say it. Thank you Gea for all the input you have said or will say in advance for this snake topic.

 

[z00ted]

Play Razer's Snake in the matchup then play Gnes (Yes he can play snake too). Just because I don't prostitute myself out to every Smashfest doesn't mean I don't know what's up. You don't have to have such a bad attitude.

Like I said, I don't think he knows this particular matchup because it's one where playing normally without doing matchup specific stuff still gives him the win. Don't try to defend everyone who you think you're cool with, they can handle themselves.

I've played both Razer and Gnes' Snake and Razer knows how to play against me much better.

Also: I'm not backing anyone up that I think I'm cool with I just haven't really heard of you before nor met you.

 

[Gea]

Gnes wasn't playing seriously. He sandbags like a mofo in friendlies but he knows Peach MU much better than Razer because he gets to play against Peach much more often than Razer. Plus Razer is just an all around better Snake so for general play he's better. For matchup specifics he's worse (things like DIing out of dair, how to punish specific spacing, etc).

If you don't know who I am you don't need to know, I'm sure I'll turn up one day in person.

Thank you Gea for all the input you have said or will say in advance for this snake topic.

You're welcome.

 

[Metatitan]

I know Gnes went pretty even with Kos-Mos (except for the last match) but that was over a year ago and Kos doesn't play brawl much/at all from what I know.

 

[Gea]

Yeah, he got to play KOSMOS quite a bit, he plays Illmatic, he has me to play just about every week since Brawl came out, he's played other ones too. He knows the MU very well.

 

[Razmakazi]

either way, this thread is pretty bad. and i say that b/c no matter what anybody says illmatic is gonna be a d-bag and degrade everyone else's experiences b/c we don't play Razer. I mean it's not like there are things that others do in the match-up better than he does and he can't poooooooooossibly be making mistakes. there's no ****ing way ill can feel helpless vs Razer b/c Snake is soooooo good. It's not the skill gap at aaall.

pft, buuuuull****.

 

[deepseadiva]

An actual discussion about the match-up instead of the match-up ratio would actually be productive, yea.

I don't care who you are, or who you beat, or whatever. Tell me how Peach can win versus Snake - regardless of how difficult that is. Anything besides that is annoyingly off-topic worthless discussion.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Tell me how Peach can win versus Snake - regardless of how difficult that is.

Anytime you see Snake pull a grenade, throw a turnip at him and watch him evade getting hit in someway. Then see how reacts. Does he decide to try to pick up and throw the grenade right at you, run away from his own grenade, or does he try to approach you? Perhaps something crazy entirely like pull another. Or maybe your turnip hit snake.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I play hrnut......

 

[Gea]

Actually, if he IS holding a grenade, that's a good time to try to jump and throw a turnip at medium range because he can't really dacus. It's kinda dumb. One of the safer places to float is HIGH versus Snake but it also means we gotta float back down afterwards. Try not to airdodge unless you HAVE to. I can't stress this enough in most matchups. It should be a last resort due to how crappy it is and how so many characters fall faster than us and want to bait that airdodge.

Also this is really situational (but funny). If they c4 and are standing just out of it's blast range go stand on it, and when you hear NOW, toad. I mean, it's a really worthless tactic but it's hilarious as hell.

 

[Gnes]

LoL Razer isn't even that good at the peach matchup...I was watching Illmatic play him at a smashfest. If my rusty snake that i never practice is generally doing just as well as razer's snake, somethings wrong. Razer just usually beats every peach he plays cuz his skill that much higher. You dont need to know the matchup if your a much better player(to an extent).

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Did you know you can sweet-spot usmash Snake if you shield an utilt?

Match-up solved.

50-50

^This post.

WHAT?!

 

[Gea]

You have to be spaced ontop of him for that to work. I don't know what Meno is huffing but it sounds like pretty good ****.

For reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk9enHyF9yI

It was a friendly but it pretty much gives a good idea that he was messing around. We alot of examples of what to be careful for (side B as an actual attack, getting above snake, what happens when he downthrows you, etc. The end is a good bit on why I advise NOT airdodging).

However, it's pretty obvious that being aggressive is not the way to go, yet you shouldn't camp either. The most common advice you will hear on "where to stay" is right out of his ftilt range. You want to bait Snake. It's important not to get yourself locked in time consuming moves/floating too low because his dash attack/dacus are quite fast and getting hit up into the air sucks the dingus.

Don't forget your dair allows you to go through upsmash. I could get into more of that match specifically but there's no point since it was such an obvious friendly that many things are done by Razer that would not normally be done.

 

[Nicole]

LoL Razer isn't even that good at the peach matchup...I was watching Illmatic play him at a smashfest. If my rusty snake that i never practice is generally doing just as well as razer's snake, somethings wrong. Razer just usually beats every peach he plays cuz his skill that much higher. You dont need to know the matchup if your a much better player(to an extent).

yeah, when i played you and razer in doubles at apex, i didn't feel particularly scared of razer, and i usually am very scared of snake in teams. he's a really smart player but i didn't think that he did everything he could against me, and so i didn't have TOO hard of a time approaching him/spacing/etc. obviously it's doubles though.

 

[z00ted]

either way, this thread is pretty bad. and i say that b/c no matter what anybody says illmatic is gonna be a d-bag and degrade everyone else's experiences b/c we don't play Razer.

You always assume I'm trying to push everyone down / say this matchup is impossible. When I'm quite the opposite, if I recall I'm probably one of the only like three Peaches that actually think Peach is viable at high level play / can beat high level Metaknights.

It's a HARD matchup. I'm just not beating around the bush saying its "even" or "55-45" thats ridiculous. Have whatever opinion you want but I'm sticking to 65:35.

I mean it's not like there are things that others do in the match-up better than he does and he can't poooooooooossibly be making mistakes. there's no ****ing way ill can feel helpless vs Razer b/c Snake is soooooo good. It's not the skill gap at aaall.

pft, buuuuull****.

Also sorta unnecessary comments, I'm not being mean or anything I'm just voicing my opinion. Have you ever seen me play Razer? Didn't think so. In the future please back up your arguments with vailid evidence.

For reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk9enHyF9yI

oh wait..ew.
I love how the match where I do terrible because I'm in a rush to leave gets recorded. /johns
Not any where I win or anything.

Poopy.

 

[RT]

That was the only match on there. Not my fault.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

lol

 

[Gea]

The best videos to learn from are ones where good players lose to other good players. It gives a great reference on what not to do. Just trying to mimic what works for other players can sometimes be effective, but more often than not they are playing in different moments and tempos, so your opponent may not react in the same way.

DEHF makes Olimar/Falco look easy, but if you watch the ones where he loses it gives you a MUCH better look at what to be aware of and spur the thought of "okay, how do I get around this?"

Edit: But seriously dude, if I ever see a tournament match of you side Bing as an attack I am going to make a topic here callin' you out and it will just say NO.

 

[Ayoub]

I think this matchup is slightly in peach's favour. Snake doesn't really have something badly that bothers Peach too much. While Peach can combo snake really well due to his weight, dair *****. Peach dies fast, true, but she shouldn't be easy to hit with utilt, since you can space really well with her Fair. So, that kinda prevents you from dieing fast. Peach can't kill snake early aswell, but she can get alot of damage from getting snake offstage, wich will make killing snake easier. Only thing that prevents the MU being 60-40 Peach favour is the fact that peach can't kill, unless you get a good usmash or bomb.

Range. Snake outranges Peach on the ground, but since Peach is in the air most of the time this shouldn't be too hard to deal with. And snake sucks in the air, so Peach obviously wins in the air. That means; stay in the air as much as you can, try to out-space snakes tillts. Oh, and turnips > grenades. You can space your dairs so that when snake pulls out a nade it shouldnt explode.

55-45 Peach favour, maybe 60-40 depending on players skill.

 

[Bartolon]

He's trolling y'all.
Infracht him.

 

[Ayoub]

You always assume I'm trolling just because I'm trying to start a discussion from my point of view. The post you just posted should be counted as spam, at least I posted something usefull. You're the one who should be infracted, mister.

 

[Bartolon]

"You always assume I'm trolling just because I'm trying to start a discussion from my point of view. "

You're always aiming to troll people, look at all your posts on the ness board, please mods infract this guy.

Regards to Yaaay.

 

[Gea]

Snake's utilt goes through all of her aerials, for starts. Second, you can't stay floating forever and even if you could, all Snake has to do is throw explosions upwards. And Snake's air game is actually pretty **** good, it's just all of the aerials have a fair amount of end lag so they much be spaced specifically or he's open for the picking.

Eurotroll or not, easy response.

 

[Airgemini]

I'm hoping the minor off-topic discussion not really having anything to do with the match-up in here will fade.

Just discuss Snake lol. Get some Snake mains in here or something.

Edit: mega ninja'd

Edit: Bartolon, you're spamming by not contributing. Please stop.

 

[Ayoub]

Snake's utilt goes through all of her aerials, for starts. Second, you can't stay floating forever and even if you could, all Snake has to do is throw explosions upwards. And Snake's air game is actually pretty **** good, it's just all of the aerials have a fair amount of end lag so they much be spaced specifically or he's open for the picking.

Eurotroll or not, easy response.

How does throwing explosions upwards stop Peach from floating? How is his air game pretty good? If you get hit by uair you're lame, Nair you can DI out of easily because you're a light char, same goes for dair. Fair? LOL. Bair is the only kindas usefull aerial.

Bartolon - I treid to be serious there, but no one took me serious so I just said I was trolling. Ness boards is lame, just like you and you useless posts. Please stop spamming this thread.

 

[z00ted]

Edit: But seriously dude, if I ever see a tournament match of you side Bing as an attack I am going to make a topic here callin' you out and it will just say NO.

I do it all the time homie get at me.
Make the thread now.

 

[Meru.]

Ignore them. These two like to annoy me. Remember Xonar? Yeah. Just ignore xd.

I'm hoping the minor off-topic discussion not really having anything to do with the match-up in here will fade.

Just discuss Snake lol. Get some Snake mains in here or something.

I have invited them, but they wouldnt come ;_;

Snake's utilt goes through all of her aerials, for starts. Second, you can't stay floating forever and even if you could, all Snake has to do is throw explosions upwards. And Snake's air game is actually pretty **** good, it's just all of the aerials have a fair amount of end lag so they much be spaced specifically or he's open for the picking.

Fair has start-up and ending lag.
Nair/ Dair --> SDI
Uair has a lot of ending lag and barely a horizontal hitbox.
Air mobility is ****.

His air game is pretty bad.

 

[z00ted]

Nair can be scary ;(

 

[Ayoub]

It wasn't even my intention to come here so I can annoy you, Yaaay. What are you talking about? I barely know you. <_<

Ill - If you think Nair is scary, then...

...

 

[Bartolon]

Just SDI out of it. tch.

And one more thing, Ayoub is a moroccan bike stealer and help Yaaay with the diddy MU =)

And peach vs snake 45-55 imo.
Snake kills much faster and his nades can be annoying just be patient and try to find openings.

 

[Ayoub]

Just SDI out of it. tch.

And one more thing, Ayoub is a moroccan bike stealer and help Yaaay with the diddy MU =)

And peach vs snake 45-55 imo.
Snake kills much faster and his nades can be annoying just be patient and try to find openings.

Stop spamming, are you blind? God, you're just asking to be infracted.

You only added the last part so it wouldnt look like spamming, it's obvious that you're not here with the intention to contribute to this matchup, please leave.

v

 

[z00ted]

Just SDI out of it. tch.

And one more thing, Ayoub is a moroccan bike stealer and help Yaaay with the diddy MU =)

And peach vs snake 45-55 imo.
Snake kills much faster and his nades can be annoying just be patient and try to find openings.

Every time I see 45:55 I die a little inside.
If you SDI it still does great damage.

 

[Gea]

I do it all the time homie get at me.
Make the thread now.

Why? Anyone with half a brain can shield on reaction and usmash, grab, whatever out of shield. It's a bad move and you should feel bad for using it. It has specific small uses and outside of that it's worthless and dangerous.

His air game is pretty bad.

I'm not saying Snake should be flying around jumping all day, but his aerials are not bad by any means, he just has to space them very specifically. They pretty much all have huge *** hitboxes and can eat through alot of our options if we are both in the air.

Doesn't mean you have to fear Snake's air game, but you need to respect what it can do if you trade hits and are both in the air. Also you can't DI out if they only get you with the last hit. All I'm saying is be careful, you seen what %s some of his aerials can kill at?

People seem to forget that Peach is not that fast in the air either (movement speed, falling speed) and our airdodge blows ***.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=250914&highlight=peach
The Snakes thought it was 60/40 or so back in 2009.

@Gea: What you have said. You pretty much have to know when Snake's aerials can actually be a threat.

Just discuss Snake lol. Get some Snake mains in here or something.
.

I have used snake for pretty much the better part of the last 18 months in combination for falco before dropping him. I say all you need to do is mess up his camping game. Prevent him from getting that momentum by going with turnips anytime he goes for a grenade, and you cut his camping game by a good margin.

 

[Ayoub]

Every time I see 45:55 I die a little inside.
If you SDI it still does great damage.

Peach' Dsmash does great damage aswell if you don't SDI, if you do, it doesn't.
Snakes Nair does great damage if you don't DI, if you do, it doesn't.

Gea - Then don't be at an angle where snake can **** you with bair or something, as in don't be behind him. If you get hit by only the last his without previous hit then you're a complete failure unless you trip in it or something. Yes, it kills early, but his aerials are obvious.

I still think it's 55-45 for Peach.

 

[Gea]

Okay Ayoub, since you advise floating above Snake. You're above him, you're floating. Then what?

 

[Ayoub]

Above? You can float infornt of him, why above? He doesn't have anything besides a Aridodge or a what, fair? Lmao, if you're kinda decent you should be able to predict a airdoge and punish it.

And if I ment "above him", according to you, why not dair or something. Or FFnair.

 

[Gea]

Because both of those lose to his tilts, and if you float too low in front of him he'll dash attack, grab you, or whatever he wants to do. He can wait till your float runs out and grab you if you airdodge as well. Why is floating a good option? Unless he does something first, which he totally doesn't have to, you are at a disadvantage being there.