I took the time to read this whole thread. And a few things I must say. First off. Stop saying things like " Well I play Razor, etc, and they know me well/ play me alot. So what I say is truth." Do people actually realize that proves nothing at all? When when these players are far better than you are and Peach players at best are medicore atm. No Peach is on the same level of player skill as these snakes. You play good snakes, so you got the expeirece. But cause of that, what makes it thinking you are doing it right/wrong with these kill level Peach players are on today. This is one big problem with this Peach community. it's a waste of time that can be use to get better. And does not help at all.
These players are not in the game. The characters they use are. And that's what you should stick too. The character. Bring up players just leads to useless BS as this thread has already gone through.
If you mean by how long it takes for the item to be pulled out, than your wrong. It takes Snake 1 frame to pull a grenade, while it takes us about half a second/30something frames to pull a turnip.
People really need to think out the box. Ok so it takes Snake one frame to pull it out. Now how many frames does it take for them to explode? And what can you actually do within that time frame? Also turnips can stop grenades. They don't go through. And in some cases, the turnips can send the grenades back to snake. Before they are set off.
Means nothing and does not help the discussion. Stop doing things like this. if you have nothing to say, then don't post. Cause as I said before, post like this lead to useless crap.
"We lose to him too much for it NOT to be that bad."
How about putting the blame on Peach players for a chance and not cause of the characters. People make excuses like this all the time. The reason Peach players lose to snake alot is due to reasons that the snake players are much better players in general then the Peach players. And also the fact that Peach players are not on a highly skilled level yet.
Seriously, this needs to stop if people wanna get better. complaining and etc. wont change a thing, nor make you better.
You should also recover from above, Peach has trouble chasing snake
Peach does not have trouble tech chasing. I can tech chase any character in this game with just F-B alone. Now this is one of the many slick ways Peach has to tech chase people.
Now with all this said, getting on snake. I am reading alot about snake camping and all that stuff. it being so horrible and etc. Long ago this method was explained. And only a few payed attention. The rest ether complained or etc. But look at how far complaining has gotten people.
Now then, I remembered grenades take about 3-4 secs to set off. And if one hits you, It has no stun at all. Next thing I put into mind is that Snake has to use a small portion of his shield to drop a grenade. Also took into account that he can only launch 2 at a time and if he launches 2, one has to go set off to dish out another. So keep in mind how long it takes one to go off.
So yea, while playing a snake that would camp and not really approach I say to myself "Not going near you" Cause one way or another, he will stop that grenade camping. But he just does not know it yet. When he tosses a grenade my way, I would pick one up and toss it back IF he did not hold it for too long. If not, Float over it and let it go boom. Ether way I am not getting hit. So his plan for damage and making me go to him is already failing.
After that I would just grab a turnip and toss it ether in his area or at a grenade. Three things can happen when you toss a turnip at a grenade:
- It sets off
- It drops in the spot the turnip hit the grenade.
- It gets sent back to snake.
Now while this is going on. Snake shield is getting eaten more by him camping. Why? Because while he goes to drop a grenade with his SHIELD, He has a turnip comming his way, so he has to worry about that. Same time, there is a grenade there. (Keep in mind it has not set off yet). Now by the time he deals with these 2 problems. You already have another turnip in your hand ready to toss at snake. And when that turnip is sent flying. snake might be in the middle of pulling out a grenade.
Now instead of 2 of them comming at you. it would be mostly one grenade comming at you. You can send more turnips at snake then he can send grenades at you. This is costing his shield cause of him dropping nades and turnips comming at him. So 2 things he needs to be concerned about. And as I said before, if he tosses them at you to quick, toss it right back and have a turnip follow.
**Note- When people camp you, they are usually pinned to a corner. Since they stay on one area. Not if you get near them they can't really game. or it is free punishment. They have to get past you to camp again. And they only have 2 ways of doing this. Trhough you or above you. Ether way, the player has to fight to get his freedom of space and camp again.
"what if he just goes to you, drops a nade and rolls away" It drops it a few feet away from him?"
Better off for you. This helps kill his camping cause Snake can't drop **** on the ground without that shield of his. Snake needs a shield to grenade camp.
"But Snakes can just Side step without having to shield to drop a grenade."
It does not matter. They don't set off till like 3-4 secs While doing all of that you can send at least one turnip in his way. You can send 2 at once if you turnip juggle.
Now as this process continues, his shield gets smaller, now you start moving in slowly. To a point through all this, there will be an opening where you can go in and pound him. He can't defend himself cause You just out camped his azz and it costed him his shield. And if he shields, that shield will break. So for all that, now he can't defend himself. Also by outcamping snake, you rack up more damage on him then he WAS suppose to on you. And guess what the best part was? You ready for this? You did not use one kill move. All your moves are fresh. and from that camping you got himt to like, 40-60. Cause from this not only will turnips hit him, his grenades can too, wether you toss them back at him OR you have turnips hit them and go back to snake.
3-4 secs for grenades to go BOOM. Turnips to get to snake and hit him? 1-2 secs. Also best to mix up turnip tosses in the air and ground. But keep your position. When that shield is getting taken away from shanke, then move in slow while keeping that camping game going.
You need to be patience, if you dont have any against snake and just wanna go to him and dair him cause he is easy to combo and etc, throw this fight out the window now. You are not gonna beat a campy snake. Snakes want you to rush him like that. Thus why they camp on you. Patience is IMPORTANT to do this. And once again. You will need a defense game. if you don't have one, your butt is grass. A typical Peach game with the floating and dairs and all that aint working on a campy snake.
Now that camping snakes are done, time to focus on dealing with him in general. Here is what you guys need to understand. It's ok to worry about what gets you in match ups. But seriously need to stop crying and going on about that so much. From all this you can know off the top what the problems are. So why not focus on what you can actually do here. Learn to abuse the weak spots of the enemy, just like the enemy love to do to us. And Peach is a character that has alot of tools to abuse alot of characters weak points. Now Look here:
The Disadvantage Vs Snake:
- he is good and field control. You will have to be aware about the field and him at the same time. He has some nasty set ups
- he can kill you welll and has many options for it
- He can force you to stay away from him or approach him. Pretty much he can control the match.
- he can kill your air game but not by alot.
- He can edguard you well unless you are high up coming to the stage.
- can camp you.
- his moves are pretty fast and have priority at some points.
- He can pressure you well.
- Hard to kill.
- Ground game is better than yours
The advantage Vs Snake:
- Can edguard him well.
- Can pressure him really well.
- air game is better
- Have more combat speed then he does.
- Gimp off the up-B
- Once he is in the air he can be pretty hopeless and not too hard to hit. And get loks of damage off this. Turnip juggles ***** in this case.
- Glide tossing can beat his dash cancel upsmash. or just toss one or Jab him.
- Get damage of of him well.
- turnips used right can screw over his ground game.
- More ways to approach
Now all this said. You see how good and bad it is. Protect the bad with the good. protect your weak points with your strong one.
One thing I noticed is that with Peach, people try to kill too early and don't think. Like why are you swinging fairs so much when snake is at 82%. He is not dieing. You have to get him at high% to kill snake. These is where you abuses Peach abilities to rack up damage, get him at that %, then go for the kills. Thus playing aggressive 24/7 is bad. cause you are decreasing your chances of killing by burning kill moves. Same time, an aggressive Peach is not hard to stop. Really when one is camping you.
So more people need to start thinking about that. Keep him in the air alot. if you are center stage and you grab him, throw him up. His air mobility is not all that,same with his air game. Snakes get abused alot when in the air. Pummel him a few times, then toss him for extra damage. Don't toss him right away. More damage the better. Even 1% game make a difference. You be surprised. And when in the air, abuse turnip juggles. people seriously need to get on that and not ignore important things like this.
Jab cancles can also screw up snake and increase her pressure game by a small %.
Now if you have a Snake that likes to be DACUS happy, here are ways to stop it:
- Jab him
- Glide toss
- Smash attack
- Short hop dairs
- Floated Dairs
- Ground floated air attacks
- Just toss a turnip at him
BUT PAY ATTENTION. Some people have poor reaction time. That is the only mobility that snake has and you can crush it in many ways. He is not fast in the air or ground. So abuse this.
Situational questions:
????: If you jab you'll miss and get ftilted
Solution: The jab is the safest thing you have in this case. your jab is 2 frames. Space your jabs and you can also try to space jab cancels to pull him back and get some room. I started using her jab cancels for cases like this. it works against this type of thing.
????: if you sh dair or float dair it'll be a utilt or utilt oos
Solution: if you do this and go behind him to a bair, he can't hit you. and if he shields it you can pop your shield to defend his counter attack and roll away. Or reverse Jab Also it takes 7 frames to drop the shield, and add that to shield stun of the atten, then the frames for the move to come out. So yea, done right, he can't punish you out of shield.
????: if you camp shield he'll just utilt when your shield depletes and kill you
Solution: Not alot do this, But just jab out the shield. if he is behind you too do this as well. Reverse jab out of shield. Easy 2 frame move out of shield and stops people in thier tracks
????: if you pull turnip, u'll get killed
Solution: Why would you even think that. Thats pretty foolish. That should not be an option to think about at all. Don't get turnips while near anyone.
???: toad miiiiiight save u but it's risky and if it doesn't work you die
Solution: Thats all mindgame metaerial. Depends on how good you can read your enemy and how slick you are.
???: rolling behind snake miiiiiiiiight work but it's really risky b/c her roll is not that good.
Solution: Thats what people really want you to do. when one is pinned to a corner, the most typical thing a play would do is roll to the player and you are finished. Thats why when I play people and I have them near the edge I don't move. They **** thier pants thinking I will attack them. or have no clue what I will do. And they rule right to me and I did not have to do anything. I do this all the time to people. So no, don't even think about that
My ratio for this as of now is that 45:55. Snake slighty wins.