Olimar
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Match-Up Discussion #29! Olimar
- Thread starter Steel
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Nibbity
Smash Journeyman
I feel weird starting first, but i'm glad Olimar is being talked about.
Olimar has great stage control. That's what he's about. The point is to do anything you can to get him off and grab the edge. That's a stock.
However it's difficult because Olimar not only has good ranged projectiles, his purple pikmin for sure have great priority. His air game is pretty aggressive also, but not as good as Marth.
He can whip out stuff like U smash to D smash very quickly , so that's also something to be worried about. you have to keep enough distance for Olimar to be insecure aboutthrowing a pikmin, but far enough away to safely stay away from his decently ranged smash attacks.
I think in most cases tilts are good, and pushing him off to the edges is most efficient. You don't want Olimar to control what you do, or else you will never get him off the edge.
Olimar has great stage control. That's what he's about. The point is to do anything you can to get him off and grab the edge. That's a stock.
However it's difficult because Olimar not only has good ranged projectiles, his purple pikmin for sure have great priority. His air game is pretty aggressive also, but not as good as Marth.
He can whip out stuff like U smash to D smash very quickly , so that's also something to be worried about. you have to keep enough distance for Olimar to be insecure aboutthrowing a pikmin, but far enough away to safely stay away from his decently ranged smash attacks.
I think in most cases tilts are good, and pushing him off to the edges is most efficient. You don't want Olimar to control what you do, or else you will never get him off the edge.
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55-45 or 60-40 Marth imo. This matchup is very momentum based. Marth has the speed and range to give Olimar some trouble.
Double fair>db is really good against Olimar if you can space it correctly. Remember, Olimar doesn't have grab armor and has a tether, so if you can interrupt his grab with any of your long disjointed attacks, you beat it out.
Just be sure to mix up your approaches and don't use anything twice in a row.
I'll gladly answer any questions you guys have.
Double fair>db is really good against Olimar if you can space it correctly. Remember, Olimar doesn't have grab armor and has a tether, so if you can interrupt his grab with any of your long disjointed attacks, you beat it out.
Just be sure to mix up your approaches and don't use anything twice in a row.
I'll gladly answer any questions you guys have.
Grab range imo
You have to rely almost solely on short hop approaches here, mis-space and he will punish.
You have to rely almost solely on short hop approaches here, mis-space and he will punish.
bludhoundz
Smash Ace
I say 60-40
It's a fairly even match onstage, but (not to overplay this or anything, as I know it has been overplayed before) Olimar is relatively easy to gimp, and Marth is a gimp king.
It's a fairly even match onstage, but (not to overplay this or anything, as I know it has been overplayed before) Olimar is relatively easy to gimp, and Marth is a gimp king.
asob4
Smash Champion
off stage we will lose
be careful though, as we can WAC a fair and spike you
also, when we recover from below we will usually do a rising up air to scare you away and off the ledge
be careful though, as we can WAC a fair and spike you
also, when we recover from below we will usually do a rising up air to scare you away and off the ledge
Nibbity
Smash Journeyman
oh yeah, cause of what I said and cause of things above, I'd like to think 55 -45 Marth.
feardragon64
Smash Champion
Also, go for the gimp. I find it ridiculously impossible to score a tippered fsmash against a good olimar due to super armor. Basically super armor keys in on marth's weakness for not having reliable kill moves.
And ya, steel already said it, grab range. You don't have to memorize the pikmin line or anything, but make note of when olimar picks out a white pikmin since you'll be grabbed out of seemingly no-where and he'll start ping'ing you for 5% a hit. =[
And ya, steel already said it, grab range. You don't have to memorize the pikmin line or anything, but make note of when olimar picks out a white pikmin since you'll be grabbed out of seemingly no-where and he'll start ping'ing you for 5% a hit. =[
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
60:40 sounds about right also any good olimar will not be getting gimped easily.
The basis of this match is to keep him off balanced and DON'T get grabbed
The basis of this match is to keep him off balanced and DON'T get grabbed
RichBrown
Smash Master
If Olimar knows how to pivot grab, this matchup can be a little annoying for Marth. Marth definitely has the easier time though, those SHFairs are annoying as hell. Keep the fairs going as much as you can, it makes pikmin toss almost worthless, especially because you can even knock away our juggernaut pikmin (that's what my friend calls purples lol).
I'd recommend staying in the air a lot. While Olimar has powerful aerial moves, they lack priority. Just because you jump, doesn't mean you have to attack. I've been able to punish marth players because they jump at me and shfair, and I simply run just outside its range and pivot grab.
And yeah, just don't get grabbed. Marth is fairly easy to combo on if he gets grabbed.
I'd recommend staying in the air a lot. While Olimar has powerful aerial moves, they lack priority. Just because you jump, doesn't mean you have to attack. I've been able to punish marth players because they jump at me and shfair, and I simply run just outside its range and pivot grab.
And yeah, just don't get grabbed. Marth is fairly easy to combo on if he gets grabbed.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Double post.
I have never lost to NC-Echo's Olimar (at least so far, and I've played him quite a bit), so I think I'm qualified to give a fair assessment on this matchup.
Marth:
-Aerial control
-easy, early gimps
-able to apply lots of pressure despite Olimar's range
-normal zoning (obviously will be varied cuz of grab range and Fsmash range) can hurt any Pikmin that Olimar attempts to throw (forward B)
-can juggle somewhat easily
-tips set up very well for edgeguards/kills
Olimar:
-awesome grab range
-powerful, far reaching, and quick smashes
-whistle can disrupt juggles, along with AD
-can use tether recovery to gimp
-can legitimately combo at low percents (usually from a grab)
-great AD following with Usmash, Up-B, and grabs
This is much easier for Marth than Olimar. Marth has to play a slightly varied zoning game, while Olimar must camp and attempt to grab Marth as he zones onstage.
Once Olimar does get a hit however, things do get fairly bad for Marth. Early on, grabs can combo into Usmashes, Fairs, Uairs, etc. Depends on the player really. Easily in the neighborhood of 30% if done correctly from a Dthrow early in the stock. Olimar must maintain the control that he gets from these early combos because Marth will eventually pay this back with a gimp or multiple Dancing Blade punishers if Olimar isn't wary.
Marth obviously doesn't want to get grabbed at low percents, so the game plan usually consists of more cautious zoning earlier in the stock, followed by more of an aggro type playstyle when Olimar gets into mid percents to force him off of the edge (not difficult due to weight). Marth is excellent at punishing Olimar with empty SHs and Dancing Blades, which will eventually push Olimar to the edge. Olimar has even less options on the edge than when he's fighting Marth at the center of the stage. Marth can work in some grabs here, or more DBs or even a Fair (never a Nair!) to push Olimar over the edge.
At this point, Marth has it made. Olimar will most likely DJ to gain some height so that he can whistle/AD through Marth's attacks as he falls. A Fair seals his fate there. When/if Olimar adapts to this, then his only option is to delay the DJ, which means that Marth can fake doing a Fair (run off stage to FF to DJ back) to force an AD/DJ AD, and will punish accordingly.
Olimar can do decently against Marth offstage as well. Olimar is, of course making a risky move if he decides to jump out at a recovering Marth (it won't be very far off the stage, but close enough to make a difference), but should Marth lose his jumps and get Faired by Olimar, then he can be edgehogged very easily due to Olimar's tether regrab to renew invincibility trick (Marth's best counter to this is waiting for Olimar to tether and Up-bing at that point to hit Olimar off and reverse the situation).
Both can kill pretty well, Olimar can kill around 100% and above with some throws, and his Usmash, Fsmash, and Dsmash all come out extremely quickly and can kill (105%-120% I'm guesing, don't exactly remember the numbers), or at least set up for a fairly easy edgeguard at moderate percents (60-90%).
On the whole, Marth should have control of the match most of the time because Olimar can't disrupt his zoning when he's sitting in shield and hoping for a grab/is too far away to Fair OOS.
I'll say 65:35 for now. Thoughts?
Marth:
-Aerial control
-easy, early gimps
-able to apply lots of pressure despite Olimar's range
-normal zoning (obviously will be varied cuz of grab range and Fsmash range) can hurt any Pikmin that Olimar attempts to throw (forward B)
-can juggle somewhat easily
-tips set up very well for edgeguards/kills
Olimar:
-awesome grab range
-powerful, far reaching, and quick smashes
-whistle can disrupt juggles, along with AD
-can use tether recovery to gimp
-can legitimately combo at low percents (usually from a grab)
-great AD following with Usmash, Up-B, and grabs
This is much easier for Marth than Olimar. Marth has to play a slightly varied zoning game, while Olimar must camp and attempt to grab Marth as he zones onstage.
Once Olimar does get a hit however, things do get fairly bad for Marth. Early on, grabs can combo into Usmashes, Fairs, Uairs, etc. Depends on the player really. Easily in the neighborhood of 30% if done correctly from a Dthrow early in the stock. Olimar must maintain the control that he gets from these early combos because Marth will eventually pay this back with a gimp or multiple Dancing Blade punishers if Olimar isn't wary.
Marth obviously doesn't want to get grabbed at low percents, so the game plan usually consists of more cautious zoning earlier in the stock, followed by more of an aggro type playstyle when Olimar gets into mid percents to force him off of the edge (not difficult due to weight). Marth is excellent at punishing Olimar with empty SHs and Dancing Blades, which will eventually push Olimar to the edge. Olimar has even less options on the edge than when he's fighting Marth at the center of the stage. Marth can work in some grabs here, or more DBs or even a Fair (never a Nair!) to push Olimar over the edge.
At this point, Marth has it made. Olimar will most likely DJ to gain some height so that he can whistle/AD through Marth's attacks as he falls. A Fair seals his fate there. When/if Olimar adapts to this, then his only option is to delay the DJ, which means that Marth can fake doing a Fair (run off stage to FF to DJ back) to force an AD/DJ AD, and will punish accordingly.
Olimar can do decently against Marth offstage as well. Olimar is, of course making a risky move if he decides to jump out at a recovering Marth (it won't be very far off the stage, but close enough to make a difference), but should Marth lose his jumps and get Faired by Olimar, then he can be edgehogged very easily due to Olimar's tether regrab to renew invincibility trick (Marth's best counter to this is waiting for Olimar to tether and Up-bing at that point to hit Olimar off and reverse the situation).
Both can kill pretty well, Olimar can kill around 100% and above with some throws, and his Usmash, Fsmash, and Dsmash all come out extremely quickly and can kill (105%-120% I'm guesing, don't exactly remember the numbers), or at least set up for a fairly easy edgeguard at moderate percents (60-90%).
On the whole, Marth should have control of the match most of the time because Olimar can't disrupt his zoning when he's sitting in shield and hoping for a grab/is too far away to Fair OOS.
I'll say 65:35 for now. Thoughts?
Nibbity
Smash Journeyman
I think Olimar's Meteor can be risky if he tries it on Marth, because it can be out done by Up B and could leave Olimar in a spot to be gimped. But I agree with kadaj, gimping a good Olimar isn't as easy as it sounds.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Make sure you get him off of the stage quickly and keep your invincibilty, Olimar has a strong UpB that will stage-spike.
Watch out for his meteor btw, its amazingly safe imo when used correctly.
His smashes and tilts are too good at times, and the grab range is great. Swat and kill pikmin quickyl, stay on that butt to prevent pick sessions.
60-40 Marth, he keeps momentum and edgeguards for a stock
Watch out for his meteor btw, its amazingly safe imo when used correctly.
His smashes and tilts are too good at times, and the grab range is great. Swat and kill pikmin quickyl, stay on that butt to prevent pick sessions.
60-40 Marth, he keeps momentum and edgeguards for a stock
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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Spacing is critical against Olimar. If you have really good spacing, you will give him a hell of a lot of trouble.
Stages with platforms like BF are very good against Olimar. When Olimar is on a platform, he cannot grab you or spam Pikmin toss. His U-smash does go through platforms, but it really shouldn't hit you if you know how to jump out of shield.
I haven't played this matchup as Marth though, so I don't know anything else. With other characters I have a lot of experience in this matchup and I personally think it's very easy once you start to learn that Olimar is a very straightforward character.
Stages with platforms like BF are very good against Olimar. When Olimar is on a platform, he cannot grab you or spam Pikmin toss. His U-smash does go through platforms, but it really shouldn't hit you if you know how to jump out of shield.
I haven't played this matchup as Marth though, so I don't know anything else. With other characters I have a lot of experience in this matchup and I personally think it's very easy once you start to learn that Olimar is a very straightforward character.
Desire
Smash Journeyman
i main olimar... kinda`
i go for a grab all the time.
Olimar user will CG you 2-4 times and finish it W/ u B.
DO NOT DS THIS. you will get punished.
Olimars main kill move is U smash,
i go for a grab all the time.
Olimar user will CG you 2-4 times and finish it W/ u B.
DO NOT DS THIS. you will get punished.
Olimars main kill move is U smash,
I agree with Peepee with 65:35.
Marth's sword completely outprios the pikmin.
I play an Olimar main often and he can't stand vsing my Marth. I've had ftilts kill 4 of Olimar's pikmins at once whilst he short hopped.
Besides the point:
The range Olimar has is outdone mostly by his lack of 'good defense is a good offense' on short hop fairs from Marth.
Olimar has got some scary speed/power attacks too. I dont know what else to say here... I think it's a bit easier for Marth than 60:40.
Marth's sword completely outprios the pikmin.
I play an Olimar main often and he can't stand vsing my Marth. I've had ftilts kill 4 of Olimar's pikmins at once whilst he short hopped.
Besides the point:
The range Olimar has is outdone mostly by his lack of 'good defense is a good offense' on short hop fairs from Marth.
Olimar has got some scary speed/power attacks too. I dont know what else to say here... I think it's a bit easier for Marth than 60:40.
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
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Olimar's ground game really hurts Marth's approach overall.
He is limited to aerial approaches for the majority of the time unless he really wants to mix it up. This makes him very predictable in the match, which in turn can make him easier to deal with.
Overall though Marth does **** pikmin hard and owns him offstage.
I will stick with 60/40, just because Marth is limited in his offense and Olimar can punish with a fair amount of ease when Marth attacks from the ground.
He is limited to aerial approaches for the majority of the time unless he really wants to mix it up. This makes him very predictable in the match, which in turn can make him easier to deal with.
Overall though Marth does **** pikmin hard and owns him offstage.
I will stick with 60/40, just because Marth is limited in his offense and Olimar can punish with a fair amount of ease when Marth attacks from the ground.
Snail
Smash Lord
60/40 Marth, in my opinion. Marth is annoying as hell but 65-35 is pushing it. <_<
60/40. Or 61/39 lol. The difficulty of the matchup is directly proportional to how defensively the Olimar player is willing to play.
I accept 62/38 Ankoku.
61.3/38.7, no more.
FINE!
Snail
Smash Lord
I am willing to agree with 61.3 / 38.7. Seems about right.
Done already?
I will put it at 60:40 and do another character a bit later
I will put it at 60:40 and do another character a bit later
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Lol weird ratios 
asob4
Smash Champion
yes 60/40 is perfectly fine, because your predictability can hinder you greatly :D
but you still **** our pikmin with that big ol' sword of yours lol
but you still **** our pikmin with that big ol' sword of yours lol
Desire
Smash Journeyman
i agree, 60 40 is fair :/
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
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Two tools need to be utilized a lot in this match. ShieldBreaker and DS frame traps.
Olimar's grab is his primary tool in this match, since it locks off ground approaches. In turn, that leads Marth to frequently attack from the air. Because of this, Olimar will frequently rely on his shield, which works out well for him, because you can shield grab.
However, Fair to Dolphin Slash will punish an Olimar that tries to grab in between, and breaking an Olimar's stock while he's at 30% should result in a stock if you tipper shield breaker or fsmash.
Also, don't be afraid to use Dancing Blade in midair during this fight. An extra vertical boost will help mindgames, and throwing all four attacks in midair will allow you do use the down version, which is likely to throw your opponent WAY off guard if used scarcely, and result in a shield stab, especially if RARed.
Olimar's grab is his primary tool in this match, since it locks off ground approaches. In turn, that leads Marth to frequently attack from the air. Because of this, Olimar will frequently rely on his shield, which works out well for him, because you can shield grab.
However, Fair to Dolphin Slash will punish an Olimar that tries to grab in between, and breaking an Olimar's stock while he's at 30% should result in a stock if you tipper shield breaker or fsmash.
Also, don't be afraid to use Dancing Blade in midair during this fight. An extra vertical boost will help mindgames, and throwing all four attacks in midair will allow you do use the down version, which is likely to throw your opponent WAY off guard if used scarcely, and result in a shield stab, especially if RARed.
someone tell me how to **** this thing please
and when i say "thing", i mean the gayest character in the game.
PLS GIVE GOOD RESPONSE BY TOMORROW AFTERNOON THX
and when i say "thing", i mean the gayest character in the game.
PLS GIVE GOOD RESPONSE BY TOMORROW AFTERNOON THX
∫unk
Smash Master
first you lose to my olimar and now you lose to.....
BlackWaltzX
Smash Lord
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Marth should fair a lot. If you are not fairing, you lose.
Xisin
Smash Ace
you know when I'm playing against the olimars around my area i can sometimes manage to dtilt them out their throw... its weird looking but the grab gets me then my dtilt fires off (while im being dragged towards olimar if hes pummeling you its too late duh.) and it breaks me free + i take no damage. I'm not sure whats happeneing here exactly nor can i replicate it 100% of the time, maybe a buffered Dtilt? I dont think oli has SA on his grab....
BlackWaltzX
Smash Lord
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Xisen, the game has been out for over a year and ya just found out?
Xisin
Smash Ace
hm no ive known about it for a while actually just i dont post everything as soon as i know about it lol its kind of unavoidable knowledge for me since the person i live with... plays olimar.
feardragon64
Smash Champion
I beat junk's olimar once.
Then he ***** me with all the other 35+ characters in the cast basically. Repeatedly.
But I have the replay of that ONE match I won.
Anyways, I feel like ground approaches fail against lolimar. His grab range is bull****. >> Use them to bait if anything else =[
Then he ***** me with all the other 35+ characters in the cast basically. Repeatedly.
But I have the replay of that ONE match I won.
Anyways, I feel like ground approaches fail against lolimar. His grab range is bull****. >> Use them to bait if anything else =[
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Blackwaltz i need to play you at COT4
asob4
Smash Champion
blackwaltz is right, just spam fair and DB
you should win
you should win