Match-Up Discussion #26! Mario

[Matador]

In that vid, the Marth was BAD. He had no idea what perfect shielding projectiles can do for you, and had horrible spacing. He did not use Fair, Nair, Dtilt, or Dancing Blade appropriately, and missed a lot of stuff by miles. HE GOT METEOR SMASHED FOR GOODNESS SAKE, WHY WOULD YOU EVEN BRING THAT GARBAGE TO THIS DISCUSSION?

Lmao, calm down. Didn't mean to offend you. XD

Sorry, but Marth's Fair really does beat Mario's options of the edge. It out-ranges his entire midair moveset (his entire moveset except maybe ftilt and fsmash maybe). Fireballs help, but only if Marth is approaching from below, and he can fan this. You really should not hit Marth before he tipper Fairs you with is disjointed hitbox at highest level play. Raining Fireballs is legit, FLUDD is legit, even cape and cape gliding is somewhat legit, but Aerials? NO. Marth ***** Mario's range, and once again, I mention that Fair is disjointed.

I pretty much agree here. Trying to edgeguard Marth with an aerial or preventing an edgeguard FROM Marth with an aerial is silly. That's why Fludd, cape and fireballs are main methods for edgeguarding and recovering vs Marth, because they're what work. If there's a way around this for Marth during our edgeguard or his recovery, then I'll concede that Marth is superior offstage and will agree to 65:35.

 

[Pierce7d]

Marth can fan fireballs with his sword (Fair, Uair if necessary). He can hit Mario with rising Dancing Blade, which will give him INCREASED upward momentum if caped (I think). He can use Uair which will hit either way. If caping is your primary guarding tool, Marth can Bair sometimes. Mario cannot bet on Marth Bairing consistantly, because it's too risky since Marth may fair.

I don't know how potent Fludd is on Marth. I've never actually been gimped by it, but I think we can fan some of it, lol.

Marth's onstage game keeps Mario out, so Mario has a hard time using his speed to deal much damage to Marth. He can't approach from the air, and his whole moveset except his highly unsafe and telegraphed Fsmash is outranged by Marth's dtilt. Fireballs can be perfect shielded, after Fair which auto-cancels, and dtilt which is IASA frame 21 I believe. PS takes only 2 frames I believe, so it really doesn't provide ANY opening whatsoever. If I can approach Falco from the ground through a laser stream by walking forward and hitting L, R, or X (my shield buttons) with good timing, I am sure not going to let two fireballs slow me down. Mario has ZERO reliable ways to get into Marth; Fair and dilt with the occasional ftilt shut down ALL of his options, and Dancing Blade punishes too good. Retreating into the shield is awesome for Marth, because retreating Fair OOS or Dolphin Slash, or even Shield Drop Dancing Blade are all good options.

Also, I'm not offended by the vid, I just want to emphasis the fact that the Marth in that vid is not at the level that should be in this discussion. Your Mario is good though. Nice footstool. I would've appreciated it more if I wasn't yelling at the Marth for failing. I get angry at bad Marth players, lol.

 

[HeroMystic]

I don't know how potent Fludd is on Marth. I've never actually been gimped by it, but I think we can fan some of it, lol.

That'll just get you FIHL'd and allow Mario to get close to punish.

 

[Matador]

Simply put, if Marth plays the game he should, Mario can't get close and consequently, cannot win. He has the tools to deal with pretty much everything Mario throws out and keeps Mario constantly on the defensive.

Mario CAN win, but won't if the Marth is playing correctly. This is basically what I'm getting and sort of agree with. I suppose I can settle with 65:35, but 70:30 just seems too much. That's like MK and D3 difficulty.

I'm done debating either way. My point has gotten across, and I'm satisfied with that. We're at a disadvantage in the end anyways; even if it is 60:40.

Also, I'm not offended by the vid, I just want to emphasis the fact that the Marth in that vid is not at the level that should be in this discussion. Your Mario is good though. Nice footstool. I would've appreciated it more if I wasn't yelling at the Marth for failing. I get angry at bad Marth players, lol.

Lol, that vid doesn't do Bden any justice. Last time we played, he won most of them with a couple 2 stocks. Granted, that was a few days ago whereas this vid was about a month and a half ago, but eh.

It was more to show what I could do than anything.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Metador: Your first few sentences in that last post summarize the match-up. Mario really shouldn't be winning which is what makes it 65/35 or more. 60/40 is honestly still in the realm of "you will win every once in awhile". When in reality Mario would really only be winning once in a blue moon.

Marth has all the tools to control the fight and keep Mario on the defensive.

 

[Blackbelt]

Metador: Your first few sentences in that last post summarize the match-up. Mario really shouldn't be winning which is what makes it 65/35 or more. 60/40 is honestly still in the realm of "you will win every once in awhile". When in reality Mario would really only be winning once in a blue moon.

Marth has all the tools to control the fight and keep Mario on the defensive.

Yeah, pretty much.

 

[Steel]

so i hear marth has one or two 60:40/65:35 advantages


we done then? anything else anyone wants to cover? i will move on to luigi if not

 

[HeroMystic]

I think we covered everything unless you wanna be super-detailed. The match-up is pretty straightforward. And 65:35 Advantage for Marth is generally agreed upon.

Gotta say though this discussion was a lot smoother than most of the other match-up discussions I've dealt with. I like these boards.

 

[Blackbelt]

I think we covered everything unless you wanna be super-detailed. The match-up is pretty straightforward. And 65:35 Advantage for Marth is generally agreed upon.

Gotta say though this discussion was a lot smoother than most of the other match-up discussions I've dealt with. I like these boards.

Yeah, the Marths are very straight to the point with their discussions, and very polite about it.


You guys should do Lucas next, simply because in the time it takes you do it, you can plan what to do next.


I mean, seriously the Lucas discussion would take about an hour tops.

 

[Steel]

I think we covered everything unless you wanna be super-detailed. The match-up is pretty straightforward. And 65:35 Advantage for Marth is generally agreed upon.

Gotta say though this discussion was a lot smoother than most of the other match-up discussions I've dealt with. I like these boards.

Yeah, we're kinda good at these things

moving on then

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth boards has a 100/0 match-up with match-up threads.

 

[Pierce7d]

Thank you. We do try very hard to be efficient and proficient at match-ups, so hearing that means a lot to us. Mario boards were also fun to talk to, and I learned something new. I guess I can agree that with quick attack speeds, little lag, Fireballs, FLUDD, and cape, I can let this lean at 65:35, and not push 70:30.

Pierce cosigns 65:35 Marth's Favor.

 

[BoTastic!]

awesome Kadaj, ur using the sig i made for you. How u like it?

also im going with 65:35

 

[_Kadaj_]

I beat boss's mario most of the time but don't get me wrong he if defintly far from bad he's one of the smartest players I've seen. Just by watching his matches and the things he does. Bottom line he is pretty much ****

Yea box 7 its pretty sweet thanks

 

[_Kadaj_]

Also no one else said anything about mario's recovery but it is NOT easy to gimp.

Far from it he can jump and throw fireballs he can cape stall he can also do this recovery that Famous made up with Fluud. I can't go into details its his secret lol sorry guys

 

[mariofanpm12]

Marth basically outranges Mario and is slightly more triumphant in priority, but not in all cases. Mario's gimping abilities are far superior, and he has Fireballs to aid him. Still, Marth has the advantage in speed. Overall, the matchup isn't a sbad for Mario as in Melee.

At best... 70:30 Marth
At worst... 55:45 Marth

 

[Steel]

Dtilt destroys mario's ground game.

Destroys.

spam that shiz


just saying

 

[∫unk]

mario's what?

 

[Steel]

his ground game sry i might ahve studdered

 

[∫unk]

its okay i do that too when i try to tell a good joke but i start laughing at it before its finished

 

[Steel]

ya sa me

 

[Pierce7d]

ROFL

Mario's not that bad of a character guys.

However, Marth does **** his shiz. At best, 65:35. At worse, 80-20. Normally awesome projectile is uselesss vs. Marth. No range to compete with. ALL of our attacks are disjointed and hugely win in priorty. Mario is STUPIDLY easy to gimp ALWAYS. Marth's can only be gimped my FLUDD, as intelligent Marth's will NOT get hit by cape (LOLOLOLOLOL).

 

[_Kadaj_]

lol just play Boss.

this match is 65:35 maybe even 60:40 if the Mario is Really Good

 

[ZHMT]

lol just play Boss.

this match is 65:35 maybe even 60:40 if the Mario is Really Good

We can probably, maybe, lose to the Best Ness or Ganon in the world (you get my point), don't mean hes good as a character xP.

 

[_Kadaj_]

but mario is a good character he's just underused wAYYYY too much

 

[ZHMT]

but mario is a good character he's just underused wAYYYY too much

I know Mario is good, but that don't mean that we have a nice matchup against him. Also yeah he is underused.

Snake is great and Olimar does a number on him right? Same thing here.

 

[_Kadaj_]

i know he's just so fun to watch being played especially in the hands of a master

 

[ZHMT]

i know he's just so fun to watch being played especially in the hands of a master

I wish I could play him, I never get to play really good Marios, offline anyways.

 

[_Kadaj_]

don't mess up if you ever do.

you WILL be caped lol

 

[ZHMT]

don't mess up if you ever do.

you WILL be caped lol

I was never caped by a Mario yet. But I also never played a godly Mario so...yeah.

 

[_Kadaj_]

yea u-airs into capes. b-airs into capes are pretty **** if you don't know how to avoid it.

and sometimes it can be unavoidable

 

[Pr0phetic]

I always wanted face Boss' Mario. I think Mario is underrated aswell, but 65:35 is good.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Ultimate lulz: non-rar dair off-stage + cape = mario practiacally spikes himself

But yea, mario can literally be poked to death by marth because he outranges him (jab, dtilt, ftilt). Dont get knocked offstage and the match is yours.

 

[Milos]

marth definitely can mess up mario if mario isn't careful when he's recovering.

Mario gets his *** stage spiked by dropzone reverse bairs or over b's into up b.

However if mario is smart the matchup totally goes to him because he can recover from farther out horizontally and still sweetspot the edge.

I dunno it goes both ways

 

[BoTastic!]

umm Kadaj is right, lol. He faces the best Mario in US. He probably has the best experience against Mario.

65:35 sounds right to me. 60:40 is debateable. But meh...

 

[HeroMystic]

I have the match-up as 60:40 on the Mario boards due to heavy discussion and personal experiences. 65:35 sounds like a safe ratio but after playing a bunch of Marth mains regularly I've been starting to be quite doubtful of it.

 

[ChaosKnight]

lol boss isnt that like my crewmate and shizz

but yea i agree on the 65:35 idk about 80-20 O.O being worst maybe 70-30

 

[BoTastic!]

80-20 70-30? lol Thats makes him harder than G&W and that isn't true.

65:35 at worst 60:40 at best.

 

[_Kadaj_]

lol boss isnt that like my crewmate and shizz

Isnt that like my crewmate as well? And not to mention playing Famous all the time

 

[feardragon64]

80-20 70-30? lol Thats makes him harder than G&W and that isn't true.

65:35 at worst 60:40 at best.

We left it at 70:30 >>

Let's put it this way. A majority of the fight is going to be fought on stage. Marth has all the tools necessary to keep Mario outside his range. Mario's best attempt of getting in is probably fireball-->approach but that is easily solved with perfect shield the fireball/swatt it, an dolphin slash if Mario goes for a grab. Because Marth dominates the on-stage game so much, Mario is going to have a difficult time knocking Marth off in the first place, especially in comparison to Marth. Both of them can gimp each other pretty well so off stage game rounds out to about even(Marth just needs to space a fair, bair, or nair off stage and it's a stock down for Mario. Mario has F.L.U.D.D. and cape).

That's why it's not a 60:40 match-up for sure. It's a pretty big advantage.

I'd call it 67.5:32.5 but that's an annoying number. Imo it could go either way but I'd go with 70:30 just because I think Mario is almost equally in danger while gimping if he goes for the cape on Marth, and can get fair'd before he can aerial/cape Marth or stage spiked(though I suppose if Marth isn't careful he can get stage spiked as well).