Mass Effect series discussion

[sakuraZaKi]

In the game's defense, shouldn't that be why the difficulty is what it is?

Though, I agree, I did have to go ammo hunting after some battles. If they wanted me to feel helpless with the limited ammo capacity, it worked.

 

[Master Xanthan]

In the game's defense, shouldn't that be why the difficulty is what it is?

Though, I agree, I did have to go ammo hunting after some battles. If they wanted me to feel helpless with the limited ammo capacity, it worked.

I thought the difficulties were challenging just because of how much damage the enemies do to you. But it just becomes annoying when you run out of ammo so easily.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Is it weird that even though I use the Mattock, I never really seem to run into that problem? Though...oddly enough I ran into it a LOT more when I was playing Soldier than during my Sentinel run. Probably since as Sentinel I can use like Warp, Overload, and Throw.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

I want the Mattock or something like it in ME3

 

[LivewiresXe]

I want the Mattock or something like it in ME3

I'm pretty sure from footage I've seen the Mattock IS in ME3. Just...probably nerfed until you mod it a bunch.

 

[F8AL]

Wait, there's no more unlimited ammo in ME2? D:

 

[Pluvia]

No there's actual ammo in ME2.

Edit:

Also Xanthan you're supposed to have low ammo for some weapons, like the heavy pistol, because those weapons are powerful. Seeing as though nearly every enemy drops ammo you wont run out for your SMG or AR, but strong weapons will remain low.

 

[Master Xanthan]

No there's actual ammo in ME2.

Edit:

Also Xanthan you're supposed to have low ammo for some weapons, like the heavy pistol, because those weapons are powerful. Seeing as though nearly every enemy drops ammo you wont run out for your SMG or AR, but strong weapons will remain low.

I know that the heavy pistol is supposed to have low ammo but I don't really like that since its one of my favorite weapons to use.

 

[Grey Belnades]

With regards with the ammo, I'm kinda looking forward to that ammo conversation between Sheppard and Conrad Verner.

Also, did you guys read this story?: http://m.kotaku.com/5878284/mass-effect-will-set-a-record-for-most-expensive-dlc

I'm kinda 50/50 about it.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I know that the heavy pistol is supposed to have low ammo but I don't really like that since its one of my favorite weapons to use.

True, but isn't one shot with the Mattock AR just about as powerful as one shot with the Viper Sniper Rifle?

 

[Pluvia]

But it's DLC, it'd be kinda crappy if something you paid extra for wasn't much better than the normal weapons.

 

[LivewiresXe]

But it's DLC, it'd be kinda crappy if something you paid extra for wasn't much better than the normal weapons.

Uh...what about that 3-round burst Sniper Rifle though?

 

[Pluvia]

I think it is too I can't remember, squaddies just rip people to shreds with that thing I'm sure that's a glitch.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Is the Revenant back? Lol.

 

[Evil Eye]

Never posted in this topic before.

Mass Effect was one of my favorite games of all time. Mass Effect 2 was a solid enough sequel and quite fun/expansive, but it really showed some seams in pandering to the Gears of War crowd. (And hey I'm not throwing stones here; I just beat GOW1 today and blew through most of 2 without even turning off the xbox). It also dramatically over-streamlined the RPG elements, to an almost laughable level. You get railroaded straight to hell story-wise, too. The ease with which Shep accepts being a hapless drone for one of the first game's primary antagonists is quite preposterous. Even moreso when you're a Sole Survivor, considering

Spoiler

under that backstory Cerberus damn near ruined your life

.

It's kind of funny for me because when I first played ME1 I was probably the kind of gamer they would have ended up pandering to in ME2. And because of that it didn't grab me at first. But then I sat down and really gave it a shot and it changed everything, including my expectations for video games.

They can keep the combat engine from ME2, it's slick and too many people like it to do otherwise. But they really need to bring back some of the complexity of the first game -- in all areas. That got kicked to the curb big time for ME2 and it blew. Don't know if anybody has sacked up and said this before me in this thread, but eh. Now I'm sayin' it.

 

[Pluvia]

They're increasing the RPG elements in ME3.

But anyway, if you go back and play ME1 you'll notice that the Alliance are completely useless and more racist than Cerberus. And the first one wasn't really that complex, it just had a bad inventory system and powers that would give you things like a 0.5% boost on your stats. That's nigh useless.

Also they're not the first games primary atagonists, you can completely ignore them in the first one if you want.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Doesn't it take the Alliance like half of ME1 to even accept that the bad guy's actually the bad guy anyway and that you're not just making it up? And I heard somewhere the actual story of Mass Effect 1 is really only 8 missions?

I may not have played Mass Effect 1, but I think some people have always been overreacting with how Mass Effect 2 is. That's always how it'll be with a sequel as say, a lot of people are the same way going from Uncharted 2 to Uncharted 3.

 

[theeboredone]

Well in ME2, the Alliance quickly

Spoiler

go back to thinking that the reapers are not real.

That's why in the Trailer, someone says

Spoiler

"We should have trusted Shepard"

or something.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Is that why the quick summary of the mood of ME1-ME3 is typically seen as

Spoiler

ME1: Reapers?
ME2: Ah yes, "Reapers"
ME3: Oh s---! Reapers!!!

then?

 

[theeboredone]

Yep, you pretty much nailed it lol.

 

[Pluvia]

Actually they never believe in the Reapers in ME1 (though with good reason), the council only make a passing reference to starting to believe you at the end. Throughout the entire game they constantly second guess all of your actions and give you no support. They all do absolutely nothing and even the people on your ship hate having aliens on board. Heck Cerberus are a pro-Human organisation yet they're not ********, they know that if using an alien is the best thing to do they will do it.

Doesn't it take the Alliance like half of ME1 to even accept that the bad guy's actually the bad guy anyway and that you're not just making it up? And I heard somewhere the actual story of Mass Effect 1 is really only 8 missions?

I may not have played Mass Effect 1, but I think some people have always been overreacting with how Mass Effect 2 is. That's always how it'll be with a sequel as say, a lot of people are the same way going from Uncharted 2 to Uncharted 3.

About 6-8 missions really, and while you can do them in (almost) any order you have to do them unlike ME2 which gives you the choice of doing a vast majority of it's missions.

 

[Grey Belnades]

Is that why the quick summary of the mood of ME1-ME3 is typically seen as

Spoiler

ME1: Reapers?
ME2: Ah yes, "Reapers"
ME3: Oh s---! Reapers!!!

then?

I never heard of this summery but I laughed.

 

[Pluvia]

Anyway download the Kingdom of Amalur demo to get the armour and weapon yet? You have to play the demo until the time runs out to get the weapon, you get the armour for just playing it.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I haven't, but I have no idea if it's a 360 only game or not.

 

[Grey Belnades]

I haven't, but I have no idea if it's a 360 only game or not.

The demo's out for PS3.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I'll have to try it in February when my bandwidth limit resets and I don't have to worry about going over, lol.

 

[Master Xanthan]

Anyway download the Kingdom of Amalur demo to get the armour and weapon yet? You have to play the demo until the time runs out to get the weapon, you get the armour for just playing it.

Plus the game is good too.

 

[F8AL]

Plus the game is good too.

Really? I might give it a try then.

 

[theeboredone]

Downloading the demo right now. My apt internet is soooo slow. 2 hours into a 2 GB file, and it's only 8% done

 

[Evil Eye]

Doesn't it take the Alliance like half of ME1 to even accept that the bad guy's actually the bad guy anyway and that you're not just making it up? And I heard somewhere the actual story of Mass Effect 1 is really only 8 missions?

I may not have played Mass Effect 1, but I think some people have always been overreacting with how Mass Effect 2 is. That's always how it'll be with a sequel as say, a lot of people are the same way going from Uncharted 2 to Uncharted 3.

That is a pretty awful analysis, not that I am particularly surprised since you straight up admitted to not having played the first game in the first place!

Doesn't it take the Alliance like half of ME1 to even accept that the bad guy's actually the bad guy anyway and that you're not just making it up?

No. Although some characters' opinions intertwine in ME1, they are always of an independent mind. In fact, most of the few Alliance humans you meet are incredibly supportive of your endeavors and whatever beliefs you divulge. Udina is the singular exception, but he is a politician; sometimes he is on your side, and sometimes not. It makes sense.

The Council, which is a different thing from the Alliance, is different. Humans are largely mistrusted and have only been around for like fifty years, versus the others who range from centuries to millenniums, so it's pretty easy to see why they wouldn't take your word for it when you start shouting the equivalent of

Spoiler

the Egyptian god Ra is attacking, just trust me on this one guys

.

It's annoying as ****, but it doesn't in any way strain credulity. It's just that -- annoying. Well, their characters are annoying. That's not the same as wrenching control over what Shepard says, does, and how s/he thinks and feels from the player when it comes to a crucial dynamic. Assuming that was what your point is, as it's the only sense I could make of it. But yeah, couldn't be more dissimilar, especially since you can consistently try to reason with the council or tell them to go blow a load out their collective *****.

And I heard somewhere the actual story of Mass Effect 1 is really only 8 missions?

Not a clue what your point there could be. There's no such thing as the "actual story". Every single mission has a story, including side missions, and some of the side missions were highlights of the game. Six to eight central, mandatory missions to progress the game toward an ending, yes, but what's that got to do with anything, or prove?

I think some people have always been overreacting with how Mass Effect 2 is. That's always how it'll be with a sequel as say, a lot of people are the same way going from Uncharted 2 to Uncharted 3.

You've really done nothing to illustrate the first point you've made here at all. And the second is pretty damn presumptuous. Making an analogy doesn't prove anything. You have to qualify it. And considering the fact that the Uncharted series in no way resembles Mass Effect in either premise or expectation, I find myself scratching my head at your logic yet again. Especially when you just assume people are overreacting about ME2, then assume people are overreacting about Uncharted 3, then assume that base similarities make them identical situations and therefore prove one another.


EDIT:

And I haven't seen the paragon ending(s) in a long time, but I'm pretty sure the Council straight up admits they were wrong at the end in those ones. Meaning the path Mass Effect 2 takes as far as they go is a straight-up retcon.

But anyway, if you go back and play ME1 you'll notice that the Alliance are completely useless and more racist than Cerberus. And the first one wasn't really that complex, it just had a bad inventory system and powers that would give you things like a 0.5% boost on your stats. That's nigh useless.

The inventory system was ****, but what's that got to do with it? Change it to alphabetical order + arrange stuff by its power level. Easy. Getting rid of it altogether is getting rid of a pebble with a hand grenade. And, no, it was plenty more complex. I don't know how you could make that argument, that the only complexity is its "bad inventory system and blah blah exaggeration of powers". On higher difficulties and particularly early on in the game picking the right modifications for each fight was damn useful and could often save your ***. You can turn a shotgun into a close range artillery cannon with high explosive rounds, or slap on a bunch of cooldown assists for your assault rifle and then put in tungsten rounds to annihilate geth like it ain't no thang. You're also conveniently forgetting that any class in mass effect has a grand total of, what, like 6 stats to put points into? If that? Compare that to ME1 where the vast variety of skills means you can build the character you want to play with versatility even if it's under the same umbrella variations as far as paragon/renegade and class go.

And I'm not sure what you mean about the Alliance being useless. You don't really encounter a lot of Alliance personnel, and most of them seem to be hardworking sorts, with Anderson being the shining beacon of loyalty among them all. Udina's a douche, but I've been over that. Furthermore, I don't care about racism. Cerberus does preposterous, outrageous **** in the first game. When did I ever say "I don't like their attitude"? In the first game they're a straight-up evil organization and their treatment in the second game (including you being pigeonholed into being either guardedly willing or a full-on Cerberus cheerleader) smacks of retcon, railroading, and all in all betraying the central concept of the series.

Also they're not the first games primary atagonists, you can completely ignore them in the first one if you want.

I said one of. Not the. I'm aware that they were side mission adversaries. They also had a massive branch of side missions, exponentially bigger than any recurring side mission scenarios. So what if they're side mission villains? Does that in any way, shape, or form change the horrible **** they did to the Alliance, Shepard, humanity as a whole, and generally anyone that makes the mistake of residing in the galaxy within their periphery? In the universe of ME1, and for anyone who plays the game properly, they are one of the primary adversaries. If Bioware wanted to use them in the way that they did in ME2 and completely wrench your control of Shepard's mind and emotions from you in the process, they shouldn't have emphasized this stuff over and over and over again in the background. It would take little of them to pay respect to the central concept of their own franchise for something so major, and paving over it so sloppily is bad form.

Regardless, I'm glad to hear the RPG elements are at least back.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I fail to see how attacking me, someone who's been speaking relatively positively and inoffensively throughout this topic and discussion makes any valid lasting point or gives off a positive impression, personally.

 

[theeboredone]

Got through the Kingdom of Ama-whatcha ma call it demo. It's alright. It sort of reminds me of WoW where you can have multiple quests, the art style, and even the landscape. With that being said, this won't be the prettiest PS3/360 game you look at. However, it's not an MMO. The battle system is also not turn based or anything, but there are heavy RPG elements as expected. I hate the UI system though. Man it's clunky as hell when you go to see what you wanna equip.

With that being said, the demo is about 2 hours long. After you do the mandatory stuff, you get 45 minutes to "explore" and do what you want. I decided to leave it on, and after 20 minutes you get another warning to let you know how much time you have left. Once time runs out, you get the ME3 weapon. You get the armor to start the demo.

Also, the story seems somewhat generic, but it still has an interesting plot. The question will be how the pacing is in this game given it seems like a game you can spend easily 60 hours on.

 

[Pluvia]

All of your post was mearly opinion on what you'd think would make the game better, when Bioware and the majority seem to disagree hence ME3 not having a crappy inventory by the looks of it.

But you said that they retconed the end of ME1, no like I said the council only makes a passing reference to starting to believe you after that super intense battle. After 2 years of no more evidence and when everything has cooled down they come to their senses and realise the Reapers probably don't exist.

You also try to say that joining Cerberus is a retcon, but for my Shepard it couldn't come soon enough, plus you try and talk to both the council and the Alliance in ME2 and look where that gets you. Unsurprisingly they are, shock horror, completely and utterly useless.

So yeah, you can't scream about railroading and retcons when it only pertains to your Shepard, hell mine is as pro-Cereberus as you can get, and in ME3 Cereberus is back to being the enemies, talk about railroading and retcons eh.

I would be more pissed about the Cereberus being enemy thing, but I'm not, though I can't really say why due to spoilers.

 

[LivewiresXe]

All of your post was mearly opinion on what you'd think would make the game better, when Bioware and the majority seem to disagree hence ME3 not having a crappy inventory by the looks of it.

But you said that they retconed the end of ME1, no like I said the council only makes a passing reference to starting to believe you after that super intense battle. After 2 years of no more evidence and when everything has cooled down they come to their senses and realise the Reapers probably don't exist.

You also try to say that joining Cerberus is a retcon, but for my Shepard it couldn't come soon enough, plus you try and talk to both the council and the Alliance in ME2 and look where that gets you. Unsurprisingly they are, shock horror, completely and utterly useless.

So yeah, you can't scream about railroading and retcons when it only pertains to your Shepard, hell mine is as pro-Cereberus as you can get, and in ME3 Cereberus is back to being the enemies, talk about railroading and retcons eh.

I would be more pissed about the Cereberus being enemy thing, but I'm not, though I can't really say why due to spoilers.

If that was directed to me, then I couldn't disagree with where your anger was portrayed as I never felt there was any sort of retconning or railroading, nor did I complain about there being no inventory system so...

 

[Mic_128]

Regardless, I'm glad to hear the RPG elements are at least back.

Have they actually said what they mean by this? I know I was hoping it'd be a return to looting various weapons, ammo, armour and upgrades, but from a screenshot I've seen, seems to be like ME2 in that regard at least

 

[Pluvia]

If that was directed to me, then I couldn't disagree with where your anger was portrayed as I never felt there was any sort of retconning or railroading, nor did I complain about there being no inventory system so...

No not you, EE.

Have they actually said what they mean by this? I know I was hoping it'd be a return to looting various weapons, ammo, armour and upgrades, but from a screenshot I've seen, seems to be like ME2 in that regard at least

They released a video at E3 I think that showed you can customise your guns, and for the powers they can evolve multiple times in many different ways depending on what bonus you'd prefer.

So it's like an upgraded ME2 system.

 

[Evil Eye]

Rather than drag this out I'm going to clarify something I think I stated vaguely. But yeah, it's not about wanting to just not join Cerberus. That would be a preposterous expectation. It's what they decided needed to happen to advance the story and built the whole freakin' game around. Expecting to be like "nah, no thanks" and somehow continue on in the game wouldn't make any sense.

My issue is with the treatment of this recruitment itself. You have no options in your Shepard's behavior, at all. When people yell at you for shacking up with Cerberus, you have no choice but to play the Cerberus cheerleader, or say some vague comment about how you call your own shots. The Virmire Survivor reunion left me blubbering like an idiot because I didn't have a single reasonable dialogue option. At no point in the game do you get the option to express hatred of Cerberus, and even expressing mistrust is a very rare option.

That doesn't make any sense. They wrote, into their own story, a reason for 33% of Shepards (the number of Shepards with a Sole Survivor backstory) to hate Cerberus absolutely, and their presence in ME1, including doing the exact same experiment they did to Shep to other marines

Spoiler

and Admiral Kahoku

, made Nazi scientists look like WHO health relief doctors. Hating Cerberus isn't some fringe viewpoint, it's completely justifiable and a lot of people are going to feel that way. Even throughout ME2 there is endless ambiguity about whether you really SHOULD be trusting Cerberus, such as Jack's backstory.

With the Council, you had to work for them. That was unavoidable; it's how Bioware advanced their story. But you could respect the Council, like a good little Spectre, or you could hate them. Or you could waver between the two. This is an element of choice that should have been present in ME2, and they decided not to allow it, even with all those previously established and deeply entrenched reasons for some (a lot of) Shepards to hate them. Even if you decide to

Spoiler

blow up the Collector base

at the end, you don't have an option to lay into them. It becomes a moralistic argument that somehow doesn't blame or mistrust Cerberus for anything.

So, yeah, I didn't want to be able to not join Cerberus. As I said, that was dumb. But they railroaded what you were allowed to think about it, and that was constantly immersion shattering for me (and a lot of other people, actually).

Hope that clears things up a bit.

 

[F8AL]

On the final mission in ME1.

 

[Pluvia]

But Sole Survivor was a random Thasher Maw. If Cereberus was involved in any way my Shepard had no clue.

Also why would you hate the people that (spoilering for F8AL's sake)

Spoiler

not only brought you back to life, but happen to be the only people in the Galaxy that believe you and are actually doing something about it

. Sure you could hate them for being the most useful allies you've ever had, and then what? Tell them where to stuff it and go shipless and resourceless back to the completely and utterly useless council?

There's no point stamping your feet and telling your allies that you hate them everytime you come across them. You could show your distust and resentment, which is what you can choose, but slagging off the only person that is trying to save the human race and the galaxy all the time just because they did a few things you disagree with is ridiculous. I'm actually glad you can't choose that pointless conversation choice, yet you can show your resentment.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

We never got to watch the Elcor's rendition of 'Hamlet'.