~Marth's Match Ups~

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

what do you guys think about diddy vs marth, cuz the diddy boards think its even or 55:45 and i say otherwise...is there anyone in here who possibly knows the matchup as well?

 

[Steel]

Do you think it's 6:4 hr?

I can see 55 45, but Id like to keep t at 6 4 for now.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Yeah i'm thinking more along the lines of 6:4 because marth has the ability to shut down several of diddys options including camping

 

[Steel]

HR how do you handle Diddy's that sit in their shield amongst their bananas and just runs away every time you approach?

The best method I have vs diddy is to just pressure the hell out of him when he has no bananas so he can't set anything up, but when he has his tent up I'm not sure what to do about it.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

okay, here's the thing if they are in their shield you can easily mix it up and with fair to double jump and watch their reaction most diddy's expect a retreating fair so they usually glide toss to smash or something, you basically have shield breaker if they wait for you to hit their shield, which puts them in a bad position (shield wise: allowing shield stabbing to happen), if you think they are gonna instant glide toss after your fair just pull out a dolphin slash, and its not too bad cuz diddys punishes aren't amazing either, you could counter a banana thrown at you as well

your main option should be to fair to double jump, sometimes side b for extra vertical movement and stalling purposes to avoid diddy and watch his movements, if he runs to the ledge and is camping peanuts, your fair will go through them or you catch them (be warned when you catch peanuts diddys think they get a free grab or hit, be sure to use Dancing Blade (safer) or dolphin slash (if they are at 100% and not expecting it toward the ledge they might die.

your game plan is simple push diddy toward the ledge and edgeguard, always have a banana or throw one off the stage so he only has one in his possession at all times (none if you can stop him), marth ***** diddy's recoveries too lol, unless he recovers high marth always has something to beat his recovery, my personal favorites, dair and bair

 

[Steel]

good ****, that helps

btw i hear you're going all marth now?

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

lol, bringing him back...to full strenght then probably gonna play all marth except vs a few characters because i recently found out that the other amazing marth in florida chaz played every mk enough so that they aren't aggressive toward marths anymore, and a defensive mk is the worst mk for marth lol...its pretty much snake marth falco...i always loved having three characters, cuz i always get bored or frustrated with one lol, you play ics??

oh and if you're in the lead and diddy is dumb enough to camp you just don't approach all of his camping crap is easy to avoid lol

 

[Steel]

haha, yeah mk's really need to learn to not approach marth XD

and yeah i'm probably going to main IC's now and second marth and mk for a few other characters.

yo go with ZMT to this if you can http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=247313

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

okay ill try to make it i posted there in the tread

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

so what do you think the matchup is for snake/marth??

 

[Steel]

At this point I think it's dead even. Fair outranging ftilt is huge for the neutral situation. Marth has the tools to pressure snake so he can't camp as effectively as he'd like. NEO says you can avoid a lot of snakes **** due to your mobility, so snakes methods of dealing damage aren't as good as marths. I kinda agree, course that could just be NEO being better than the snakes he plays.

and you?

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

I agree its even, one throw off the stage can end snakes life, i've done it alot believe me lol

 

[_Kadaj_]

Yo HRNUT you going to Pound 4?

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

yep sure am, i hope to see all the other marths there

you coming right?

 

[_Kadaj_]

Yeah Im def. going , its gonna be ****

 

[momochuu]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242786

ICs boards are discussing Marth and it's going kinda slow.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

btw douible jump vs camping diddy is good, i mean double jump retreat and other things like that

 

[Lord Chair]

I agree its even, one throw off the stage can end snakes life, i've done it alot believe me lol

This is so vague it doesn't make any sense.

Such statements make Olimar-TheWorld 0-100, and IC-TheWorld 100-0.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

This is so vague it doesn't make any sense.

Such statements make Olimar-TheWorld 0-100, and IC-TheWorld 100-0.

okay here is how its done since you seem to want to know,

once you're at the edge with snake, you being near the ledge and snake coming at you, if you land a grab dthrow this limit snakes options by only giving him the abilities to jump bair which you can bait and punish and jump to cypher which you can break with fair if you catch snake fast enough you'll have a nice opportunity to gimp him,

if snake tries to wait and just fall then simple grab the ledge and wait on his jump to cypher then ledge release and push him far off the stage with bair, he most likely will recover from this but he has to go high still giving marth the upper hand in that part of the fight, when snake is camping its simple don't approach just dodge grenades etc im pretty sure you know the rest of the match but yeah marth can **** snakes recovery so are you satisfied? thats why i think its even!

 

[Lord Chair]

okay here is how its done since you seem to want to know,

once you're at the edge with snake, you being near the ledge and snake coming at you, if you land a grab dthrow this limit snakes options by only giving him the abilities to jump bair which you can bait and punish and jump to cypher which you can break with fair if you catch snake fast enough you'll have a nice opportunity to gimp him,

if snake tries to wait and just fall then simple grab the ledge and wait on his jump to cypher then ledge release and push him far off the stage with bair, he most likely will recover from this but he has to go high still giving marth the upper hand in that part of the fight, when snake is camping its simple don't approach just dodge grenades etc im pretty sure you know the rest of the match but yeah marth can **** snakes recovery so are you satisfied? thats why i think its even!

Any decent Snake will C4 and recover high in the first place.

You cannot outcamp Snake, trying to do so is a real joke unless it's a Snake who's impatient enough to go approach you (lol).

Yes if Snake recovers high you have the chance to juggle him a bit, big deal. That's the match-up, but it doesn't have to mean 60% damage (or whatever).

Marth has a hard time getting into grab range, so the way you describe 'just dthrow at the edge and instant-win' is not valid.

Yet again I shall stress: Why would a good Snake be incapable of dealing with a Marth who's trying to airdodge all of his nades? Just cook that **** and, if playing against a good Marth, deal minimal damage in the process. Who cares if that damage is so minimal, Marth is apparently convinced he can outcamp Snake.

 

[ZHMT]

Any decent Snake will C4 and recover high in the first place.

You cannot outcamp Snake, trying to do so is a real joke unless it's a Snake who's impatient enough to go approach you (lol).

Yes if Snake recovers high you have the chance to juggle him a bit, big deal. That's the match-up, but it doesn't have to mean 60% damage (or whatever).

Marth has a hard time getting into grab range, so the way you describe 'just dthrow at the edge and instant-win' is not valid.

Yet again I shall stress: Why would a good Snake be incapable of dealing with a Marth who's trying to airdodge all of his nades? Just cook that **** and, if playing against a good Marth, deal minimal damage in the process. Who cares if that damage is so minimal, Marth is apparently convinced he can outcamp Snake.

Uh, Marth's shouldnt even worry about grenades tbh, they just add confusion to the match thats unneeded. You gonna get ***** if your worried about grenades all game.

If you fthrow Snake offstage you get a guarenteed dtilt off the edge. This GUARENTEES like 50-60 damage or MORE (more is usually death)

Plus snakes tend to shield sooo much its not even funny. Fair is safe on block which if hits leads into a free grab at low % anyways. You can pivot grab Snake after conditioning, especially if he loves holding grenades a lot.

Also, nobody mentioned outcamping Snake lol

 

[Lord Chair]

Also, nobody mentioned outcamping Snake lol

Standing back and airdodging stuff all day sounds like camping to me. If you plan to camp a camper, you'd plan on outcamping him.

That's all I have to add to a seemingly endless discussion.

 

[ZHMT]

Standing back and airdodging stuff all day sounds like camping to me. If you plan to camp a camper, you'd plan on outcamping him.

That's all I have to add to a seemingly endless discussion.

How exactly would Snake be winnable if you never once approached? Whatever was said your taking out of context lol

If you dont plan on dodge grenades, you plan on getting hit by them, and who does that

 

[Steel]

Marth doesn't camp snake, he attacks >_>

 

[Lord Chair]

For christ's sake.

when snake is camping its simple don't approach just dodge grenades

That was all I was commenting on. Stop trying to badger me because I supposedly take things out of context or whatever.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

lol, okay i'm just telling seeing as i know how to play both of the characters very well and i play some of the best snakes with marth and vice versa...but idk what i'm talking about, snake can do alot of dumb stuff to marth who is pressured by grenades, so i'd say just usually stand back dodge them and wait for an opening unless you're gonna try to approach him while he does this.

If you're close up feel free to rush him , you may not get grenade grabbed or spot-dodge to **** (tilt), since snake spot dodges so much i'd say usually just get a good pivot grab on him and i forgot to put that back throw to edgeguard works best at low percentages where snake's c4 recovery is pointless and you could always just follow his c4 and footstool him unless he is near the border of the stage then you just wait for him I know you can spike him out of c4 recovery if timed right but i'd probably do Bair if he is coming toward the stage just for good measure

 

[feardragon64]

That was all I was commenting on. Stop trying to badger me because I supposedly take things out of context or whatever.

This is so vague it doesn't make any sense.

Such statements make Olimar-TheWorld 0-100, and IC-TheWorld 100-0.

Hmm.. .

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

lmao too good

So are we discussing a match up? or rediscussing?

 

[Albert.]

Lord Chair is nitpicking that's ghey.

I've seen HRNut's Snake AND Marth he obviously knows the match-up from both sides way better than Lord Chair does.... HR has more experience in a better region.

<3 FL my old home

 

[ZHMT]

lmao too good

So are we discussing a match up? or rediscussing?

We already discussed every MU, they are all re discussing lol

@Bass, Also yeah <3 Florida xP

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

FL is too good when it comes to exp lol ZMT we gotta do some matches next tourney we're at dittos and shiz

 

[ZHMT]

FL is too good when it comes to exp lol ZMT we gotta do some matches next tourney we're at dittos and shiz

You going to gigs? We can play then

Marth dittossssss, and let me play your Snake too xD

To stay on topic: We can prolly get some vids for the discussion

 

[Player-3]

also

instant throwing snakes nades makes them go wat

just sayin'

 

[Lord Chair]

Lord Chair is nitpicking that's ghey.

I've seen HRNut's Snake AND Marth he obviously knows the match-up from both sides way better than Lord Chair does.... HR has more experience in a better region.

<3 FL my old home

Even though I were the one trying to end the discussion prematurely in the first place, knowing that it led nowhere.

Good job knowing exactly what opponents live in my region, which of them I have played and oh yes of course, my experience.

Get a clue, instead of judging people for no apparent reason try to give some input on the actual topic instead.

Oh wait, I'm continuing the discussion, thus giving people more reason to waste their time. Whatever.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

lol, but yeah we'll do that if i can attend gigs next week may be too busy to we'll get a friendly tv and play if we can

 

[Mota]

How much do you guys think TL OHKO on Marth will effect the MU?

 

[Shaya]

Little to none.

I think it will be a HUGE gimmick; but general high level play will have Marth outspace it always...

Unless you guys could somehow in the time between a whiffed dolphin slash do it or something...

We'll see though, won't we?

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Wolf boards are currently rediscussing marth. Any input is appreciated.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237768&page=20

 

[Roxas1988]

So how do you think the match up with Zss would go? Seeing as it is a battle between spacing and edgeguarding.

 

[DTP]

Posting this in two different threads because I can.
Luigi boards are discussing the Marth match up!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=251887