Marth vs shiek

[FrostByte]

You can dash dance, dash in and shield her needles then get a grab off. Dtilts will **** sheiks that like to cc, so throw them out a lot. In fact, this is the only safe move you have against a ccing sheik. An approaching shfair will get you jab-fair combo'd. A standing fair will leave sheik with just enough range to ftilt you, retreating fairs are actually good, but you only have so much space in which you can retreat to. Full jump fairs will get you *****.

 

[Aesir]

You basically want to keep sheik in the air, it's like your best option personally.

 

[Howls]

THis is bad and good advice.

1. no dash dancing is still good against sheik and effective, wavedash whatever it's still useful. It's not like her needles are worse then falcos lasers they're no where near as bad.

2. Battlefield isn't so great imo, you want yoshi story defiantly yoshi story

3. FD Is defiantly not your friend.

Things that will work?

Grabs, lots of them.
Grab, Uthrow, utilt
or
Grab, uthrow, wait for DJ, uair
Sheiks will almost always try to DJ to avoid the utilt.

abuse your range if you can't space you lose simple as that.

almost all your kills will come from edge guards learn to mix them up.

little note, no one can sweet spot the ledge against marths fsmash, just thought I'd throw that out there.

wow, I guess my game vs. sheik is flawed. Thanks for the corrections.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

When Marth is edge guarding Sheik and Sheik got the edge and is trying to get back on the stage, dtilt to put pressure on Sheik (and so she can't wd on stage and block your fsmash into a wd out of shield grab to **** -- please Marths, STOP TRYING TO FSMASH WHEN SHEIK IS GETTING BACK ON THE STAGE) and dash dance and wait for her to get up so you can grab her. Even if you aren't in position for the initial grab just dash dance camp and Sheik can't do anything; she'll spot dodge or punch or shield and then you just grab and do it all over again.

Dash dance camping as you control the middle of the stage > Sheik.

 

[Shmooguy]

No.

They combo the living hell outta her. Shiek can really only tech chase to do anything to them at low percents.

Her moves don't combo for **** until like 60% vs space animals.

Meanwhile Falco just ****s all over her even when she is at 0%

Space animals vs Shiek = Space Animal advantage.

Falco vs Shiek is definitely in Falco's favor.

Fox vs Shiek is pretty close to even, but Fox has slight advantage.

Um, LOL this is so wrong. Fox is harder for Sheik than Falco. I'm even debating whether Falco has an advantage over Sheik anymore. Once both parties know the matchup it becomes really close to even.

ur dum

lolllz

Seriously though, you don't play spacies or sheik. Don't comment on matchups you don't know. >.>

<3<3

Yes, thank you. You obviously don't have enough experience with Sheik.

wtf?

LOL!!

Falco vs Shiek is EVEN?!

If you said that about Fox fine, but Falco?

And Shiek vs Marth isn't ****.

**** implies he has no chance or that he will consistently get 3 stocked or more.

This is not the case.

Falco definitely has advantage over Shiek BTW. This is fact.

Yeah she can edgeguard the hell out of him , but who can't? Falco's recovery is *** juice. Everyone knows that. The main thing that gives him advanage is his ridiculous combos on her and the fact that she can't combo him for **** until mid percents. Tech chasing only gets her so far. And it's not like her grabs lead to anything garuanteed at low percents. How is the match-up even?

If you're not stupid and try to grab Falco out of his dair then it's already pretty even. You can get around lasers; Sheik doesn't have good horizontal aerial movement but it's still pretty doable. If the Falco camps it's not even that bad, and if he rushes at you then there are so many things you can do out of shield that shield pressuring doesn't even put you at a disadvantage. The hardest thing is when Falco is CC below you when you don't have a jump anymore... but then just keep your 2nd jump, which shouldn't be that hard to do. I guess if you don't know the matchup well then Falco has a natural advantage, but once both people know what they're doing it becomes pretty even. Maybe not completely even, but really, Fox has a definite advantage compared to Falco.

 

[Vincent Vega]

When Marth is edge guarding Sheik and Sheik got the edge and is trying to get back on the stage, dtilt to put pressure on Sheik (and so she can't wd on stage and block your fsmash into a wd out of shield grab to **** -- please Marths, STOP TRYING TO FSMASH WHEN SHEIK IS GETTING BACK ON THE STAGE) and dash dance and wait for her to get up so you can grab her. Even if you aren't in position for the initial grab just dash dance camp and Sheik can't do anything; she'll spot dodge or punch or shield and then you just grab and do it all over again.

Dash dance camping as you control the middle of the stage > Sheik.

Yuuuuuuup.

 

[Inkslinger]

P gives good advice, i'll admit i try to fsmash when sheik is on the ledge because i always do so in thinking that she is going to wd onto the stage, right when i pull out the fsmash, thus no time to sheild but dtilt is a lot safer.

One thing that really good marths use and is rarely mentioned is cc to grab, it's very effective against sheik. DD camping, as mentioned by NeighborhoodP is really effective, Azen's Marth is proof.

I'll also advice marths to edgeguard outside the stage when possible and experiment with this a lot in friendlies, because that opens up ideas and possibilities.

lol i rarely give out advice..........

 

[NeighborhoodP]

wow i'd give more info but I'm afraid inks might start beating me =/

btw cc to grab is a must in the marth's repertoire against sheik, it ***** sheik. Sheik's jab game just destroys Marth in so many ways, so you must cc to a grab. MUST. MUST. Inks does this and I HATE IT WOW IT'S SO ANNOYING.

 

[ArcNatural]

CC to JC grab is a godsend in early % in this matchup or any of them.

WOW I SAID THAT ON THE FIRST PAGE ZOMGZ

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Everyone's contradicting each other, and now I have no idea who to believe anymore.

 

[Aesir]

^ No ones contradicting anyone. >_>

 

[sakuraZaKi]

please Marths, STOP TRYING TO FSMASH WHEN SHEIK IS GETTING BACK ON THE STAGE)

well we need to do it to win xD

but yeah besides fsmashing, a well placed reverse dolphin slash is nice, because for a shiek to be in that situation, shiek should have either been at a high percentage or blast off pretty far.

two words. EZ KILLZ!!!111!!!eleven1one!

 

[NeighborhoodP]

reverse dolphin slash is only good if they can't DI. If you DI it properly it really doesn't do much.

 

[ArcNatural]

reverse dolphin slash is only good if they can't DI. If you DI it properly it really doesn't do much.

It's also really good when everything is really good, when you catch them with it by surprise. That's always a factor.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

meh it's just never a surprise when it's done to me, and it's like marth giving me a free life

 

[FrostByte]

Your try to dash attack a Marth but miss. You proceed to crouch cancel his next attack. You get dolphin slashed. /stock.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

i don't dash attack when i'll miss, it's a move best used sparingly when you can't miss ^^

anyway more times than not it's not useful vs me anyway, and as a sheik main i can only speak for myself. if you marth mains have played a lot of sheiks and it works then keep using it obv

 

[Deleted member]

Um, LOL this is so wrong. Fox is harder for Sheik than Falco. I'm even debating whether Falco has an advantage over Sheik anymore. Once both parties know the matchup it becomes really close to even.

If you're not stupid and try to grab Falco out of his dair then it's already pretty even. You can get around lasers; Sheik doesn't have good horizontal aerial movement but it's still pretty doable. If the Falco camps it's not even that bad, and if he rushes at you then there are so many things you can do out of shield that shield pressuring doesn't even put you at a disadvantage. The hardest thing is when Falco is CC below you when you don't have a jump anymore... but then just keep your 2nd jump, which shouldn't be that hard to do. I guess if you don't know the matchup well then Falco has a natural advantage, but once both people know what they're doing it becomes pretty even. Maybe not completely even, but really, Fox has a definite advantage compared to Falco.

You don't know what you're talking about in any way. Any char that can CC into a 1 frame invincible move that goes to any other move has a serious advantage against a character that has weak non-disjointed attacks. This is just silly.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Actually he's right, Sheik v Falco is WAAAAAAAAY easier than Sheik v Fox. Falco is so limited because you have to play him a certain way (aggressive w/ same approach) which is easier to counter than Fox who just friggin ***** Sheik in 3-4 different ways.

The only hard part v Falco is getting him up to 30-40%. After that he's pretty easy, and really easy to edge guard as well. It's probably 60/40 for Falco, but Fox is like 70/30 if not wider if they play it properly.

 

[Micheloxx]

so fox is the prob XD, well serusly, i dont know, but i thought before fox was way easier than falco with sheik.. now i read this i know i werre wrong XD

 

[Aesir]

Falco is 60/40 in falcos favor


Falco can pressure sheik very very well but theres some pro-sheik stages that make it pretty close.

Like FoD I would never go falco against a sheik there. >_>

 

[Emblem Lord]

Fox is harder then Falco for Shiek now?!!!?

-_-

Yeah, I'm officially done with this thread.

BTW listen to Mow and Aesir.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Lol people don't trust Socal Sheiks? Falco can seem harder cause he's just annoying. But he is so easy to gimp. Just don't be an idiot. Fox is harder for Sheik simply because Fox is the best character in the game.

 

[Aesir]

*learned falco from pc chris*

>_> I think I know the match up

 

[Deleted member]

falco is way harder than fox than sheik. falco can attack sheik's attacks and win 90% of the time. fox on the other hand sheik can cc ftilt/uptilt his moves and trade/outrange him to get the upper hand. sheik cannot deal with falco's attacks outright, but sheik can beat fox's attacks all over with clever use of upair and bair once she forces him into the air. and while dd camping for fox might be crappy, sheik can shut it down by crouching and ground needles. not only can sheik not shut down falcos attacks, falco can shut her down instead by simply spamming lasers. say what you want, sheik cannot stop falco from shooting if falco knows what he's doing. fox vs sheik might not be exactly even, but it's relatively close so long as sheik bans FD in tournament, and sheik should beat fox on battlefield/fountain of dreams to make it even. falco controls sheik on all stages, even blatant counterpicks.

falco vs sheik is probably the most one sided match in the top tier, even more one sided than marth vs fox or sheik vs marth.

 

[Aesir]

FoD Sheik can win, not sure about other stages.

I know Falco wins on Yoshi, FD, and PS against sheik thats a definite.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

falco is way harder than fox than sheik. falco can attack sheik's attacks and win 90% of the time. fox on the other hand sheik can cc ftilt/uptilt his moves and trade/outrange him to get the upper hand. sheik cannot deal with falco's attacks outright, but sheik can beat fox's attacks all over with clever use of upair and bair once she forces him into the air. and while dd camping for fox might be crappy, sheik can shut it down by crouching and ground needles. not only can sheik not shut down falcos attacks, falco can shut her down instead by simply spamming lasers. say what you want, sheik cannot stop falco from shooting if falco knows what he's doing. fox vs sheik might not be exactly even, but it's relatively close so long as sheik bans FD in tournament, and sheik should beat fox on battlefield/fountain of dreams to make it even. falco controls sheik on all stages, even blatant counterpicks.

falco vs sheik is probably the most one sided match in the top tier, even more one sided than marth vs fox or sheik vs marth.

... um, wait, what?

falco is just miles easier than fox. falco is much much easier to combo, so the only hard part is getting him up to combo percentages. utilt / uair / nair do that just fine. the former two trade or win with any of falco's attacks. nair out of shield is much more effective v falco than fox because falco's much more predictable and slower.

dude, fox ***** like all the random stages and has a million counterpicks that destroy sheik. basically if the fox knows what you're doing, you're already starting 0-1 and have to win the first match and your counterpick. sheik has no chance v fox on gay crap like green greens or poke floats. fox ***** on PS, FD and YS and while sheik has an advantage on BF and FoD, it's not nearly the advantage sheik has on a falco on those stages. so 3/5 of the time you're coming from behind from the random stages, and fox can ban sheik's best stage (FoD) which hurts sheik much more than banning FD hurts fox. (MLG rules don't let you ban randoms and in so cal we play by MLG rules so we can't even ban neutrals anyway.)

a campy fox that plays as gay as possible >>>>>>>>> sheik. falco can play as gay as possible and it's uphill but still not that bad because unlike fox he can't hit and run, he has to play aggressive and he has to be much more predictable to an extent than fox. fox can literally laser, nair shine and run away, and just punish your mistakes with drill shine to grab to uair all day long. toss in some usmash out of shield and a much better edge guarding game than falco and i'll take falco over fox any time.

 

[P.c. Chris]

... um, wait, what?

falco is just miles easier than fox. falco is much much easier to combo, so the only hard part is getting him up to combo percentages. utilt / uair / nair do that just fine. the former two trade or win with any of falco's attacks. nair out of shield is much more effective v falco than fox because falco's much more predictable and slower.

dude, fox ***** like all the random stages and has a million counterpicks that destroy sheik. basically if the fox knows what you're doing, you're already starting 0-1 and have to win the first match and your counterpick. sheik has no chance v fox on gay crap like green greens or poke floats. fox ***** on PS, FD and YS and while sheik has an advantage on BF and FoD, it's not nearly the advantage sheik has on a falco on those stages. so 3/5 of the time you're coming from behind from the random stages, and fox can ban sheik's best stage (FoD) which hurts sheik much more than banning FD hurts fox. (MLG rules don't let you ban randoms and in so cal we play by MLG rules so we can't even ban neutrals anyway.)

a campy fox that plays as gay as possible >>>>>>>>> sheik. falco can play as gay as possible and it's uphill but still not that bad because unlike fox he can't hit and run, he has to play aggressive and he has to be much more predictable to an extent than fox. fox can literally laser, nair shine and run away, and just punish your mistakes with drill shine to grab to uair all day long. toss in some usmash out of shield and a much better edge guarding game than falco and i'll take falco over fox any time.

your weird, falco and fox **** sheik equally since when was falco vs sheik an uphill battle? and since when do u HAVE to be aggressive vs sheik with falco? he has lasers that stun last time i checked its pretty easy to camp a sheik with falco and its effective too. his combos vs her are good as well. sure he dies at low dmg and gets gayed but hey any good sheik will usually kill a fox or falco when hes off the edge doesn't rly matter what percent. Fox might have a slightly easier time on certain stages but your making it sound like sheik counters falco or something <_<

 

[NeighborhoodP]

i said falco v sheik is an uphill battle for sheik, not falco.

the fact that a good counterpicking fox already has one win in his back pocket is enough to make fox >>> falco. like seriously, what can sheik do on corneria? green greens?

just look at drephen and plank, arguably the two best sheik mains in the country. drephen beats pretty much every falco and from talking with plank about sheik v fox i bet he'd agree fox >> falco.

 

[Aesir]

PC is kind of drunk let me put what he meant to say in sober words

You don't know what you're talking about. Falco ***** sheik almost as bad as fox ***** her.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

it's kind of hard to respond to "you don't know what you're talking about," mainly because, well, that's not offering any logical points to respond to.

so i'll just respond in kind: i do.

 

[Aesir]

Because it's simple that falco ***** sheik.

Falco
Shuts
Her
Down.

Theres no one way to play falco, you can be campy and win or aggressive like Shizwiz and win both these styles work.

 

[maximus omega]

Lol that was an easy way of putting it.

 

[JesiahTEG]

THis is bad and good advice.

1. no dash dancing is still good against sheik and effective, wavedash whatever it's still useful. It's not like her needles are worse then falcos lasers they're no where near as bad.

2. Battlefield isn't so great imo, you want yoshi story defiantly yoshi story

3. FD Is defiantly not your friend.

Things that will work?

Grabs, lots of them.
Grab, Uthrow, utilt
or
Grab, uthrow, wait for DJ, uair
Sheiks will almost always try to DJ to avoid the utilt.

abuse your range if you can't space you lose simple as that.

almost all your kills will come from edge guards learn to mix them up.

little note, no one can sweet spot the ledge against marths fsmash, just thought I'd throw that out there.

Thanks, I was just wondering why Azen always went for the uthrow to utilt when he knew they would dj out of it. This helps me a lot.

 

[Cactuar]

Because it's simple that falco ***** sheik.

Falco
Shuts
Her
Down.

Theres no one way to play falco, you can be campy and win or aggressive like Shizwiz and win both these styles work.

Lol. This is a Marth thread.

I am a Cactus.

 

[Aesir]

Lol. This is a Marth thread.

I am a Cactus.

I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS, I LOST TO A CACTUS

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Because it's simple that falco ***** sheik.

Falco
Shuts
Her
Down.

Theres no one way to play falco, you can be campy and win or aggressive like Shizwiz and win both these styles work.

incorrect. you're bad at logic.

 

[Aesir]

Mind point out where my bad logic lies?

>_> there is no bad logic my bad. it's 60/40 falco's favor Chris even agrees

 

[NeighborhoodP]

lack of any logic = bad at logic. not necessarily having bad logic.

dude, i said from the start it's 60/40 falco, wtf? that's far from **** LMFAO. you call THAT one sided? look up the word hyperbole and stop subjecting people to it.

 

[_milktea]

I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS, I LOST TO A CACTUS

FLACOEEEEEEEEEEED.