Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[Cactuar]

Light shield edgeguard doesn't work in Marth ditto, as Marth likes to take his time dropping to the ledge after having his shield hit by the upb. *note: works if the opponent can't sweetspot, but vs a half-decent sweetspot, the person up-bing will grab the edge first. It might work if you fastfall after having your shield hit...*

Husband definitely knows more than me. Just because I beat him doesn't mean my opinion should be weighed more. 0-6 I DI away and down as it's generally inescapeable if the other Marth's timing is decent. Away and down let's me DI away a decent distance, as well as touch the ground somewhat fast, so that if they are off by a few frames in the chase, I have time to spot dodge or roll when they go for the regrab. 7+ I DI fully away, unless I see them using the uthrow, in which case I use slight left or right DI, so that my arc isn't low enough to get hit by the utilt, which is generally what people will go for after an uthrow at that percent. Slight DI or no DI from an uthrow at that percent lets you jump out a lot easier.

About the teching question: it doesn't really matter on the recovery, as long as you hit the button at the proper time. If it helps you, go for it. It won't make you airdodge unless you press the button.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

I played Husband last night for several hours. Basically, the important thing I learned is that marth can always chaingrab another marth until 7%, in which case it is probably better to uthrow. What can never be done with the down DI however, is an fsmash after fthrow.

 

[JesiahTEG]

After a Marth Uthrow's another Marth, I usually Utilt. Can the Marth that just got Uthrow'd jump out of the Utilt between 0-10%, or is Uthrow->Utilt inescapable?

 

[Cactuar]

Lol @ UMBC. It's actually 0-6, if you fthrow at 7% Marth falls down (I'm pretty sure anyway ).

@Jesiah: You can jump out of it depending on how you DI the uthrow.

 

[JesiahTEG]

wait, umbc, so if you di down you wont get fsmashed after an fthrow??? i dont get it.

 

[Randizzle]

without DI you eat a tipper after fthrow and certain percents. DI down and away puts you out of tipper range and gives you a teching opportunity since you hit the ground quicker.

 

[Aesir]

PC once told me I should DI down and away >.> though that might be from being thrown off the stage.

is it the same effect? >_>

 

[knightpraetor]

they said i should have posted this here earlier...so my 2 questions

from time to time i will L-cancel and end up mistiming the Z for the grab.....i'm curious whether it matters whether i just hold L and hit A afterwards?

1. how much slower is it to shield grab if i wait for the shield to appear?

2. if i am just holding L and then still hit A on time will i grab without the shield coming up (ie no loss of time over just using Z) ? because in that case i'd have the best of both worlds, instant grab if timed well, and a shield grab if i mistime a little..

but anyways i just thought i'd try to deal with those random times when i end up throwing up a shield when i wish to grab..very careless..but it still happens 2 or 3 times an hour


anyways, that was my post from a few days ago..a couple more questions

i used to know the answer to the first, but i've forgotten, the stuff gets ingrained and you don't worry about the random knowledge..but anyways

3. IF you hit Z and up/x/y at the same time...which occurs first? and if the jump occurs first will you just jump without a grab i guess since the others input will be ignored?

ps - props to you for suggesting i try doing both UP and X/Y to jump cancel..i recently switched to a claw grip and i've started missing jump cancels for the first time in a year..it's annoying..hopefully that will help.

question 4. Shouldn't down DI be better than down and away to get out of fthrow to fsmash from marth..it just seems like there is little vertical movement to di so i'd think you'd lose too much, making down the better option.

question 5: so at 30% roughly in a chaingrab vs fox if they don't di you have to uptilt? and if they do di you uptilt? i thought it didn't hit at the tip if they don't di..but someone else says it does...i'll go check..anyways, can you pivot grab and get them before they shine/ jump out...i get the feeling jumping out wouldn't work...shine should work i think.

how do shine's work..if a shine is already out can you grab through it? ie i don't think it's a continual attack, meaning the fox would have to react perfectly to get the shine timed exactly right..

anyways, if they di to the sides, should you regrab or just uptilt? i think they can still shine in those cases too..so i'm guessing just use uptilt regardless at 30%? it's just i thought that at 30% no di +uptilt equals no combo

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

wait, umbc, so if you di down you wont get fsmashed after an fthrow??? i dont get it.

Correct. If you DI down when marth is thrown forward or down, an fsmash will never be able to hit him.

they said i should have posted this here earlier...so my 2 questions

from time to time i will L-cancel and end up mistiming the Z for the grab.....i'm curious whether it matters whether i just hold L and hit A afterwards?

1. how much slower is it to shield grab if i wait for the shield to appear?

2. if i am just holding L and then still hit A on time will i grab without the shield coming up (ie no loss of time over just using Z) ? because in that case i'd have the best of both worlds, instant grab if timed well, and a shield grab if i mistime a little..

but anyways i just thought i'd try to deal with those random times when i end up throwing up a shield when i wish to grab..very careless..but it still happens 2 or 3 times an hour


anyways, that was my post from a few days ago..a couple more questions

i used to know the answer to the first, but i've forgotten, the stuff gets ingrained and you don't worry about the random knowledge..but anyways

3. IF you hit Z and up/x/y at the same time...which occurs first? and if the jump occurs first will you just jump without a grab i guess since the others input will be ignored?

ps - props to you for suggesting i try doing both UP and X/Y to jump cancel..i recently switched to a claw grip and i've started missing jump cancels for the first time in a year..it's annoying..hopefully that will help.

question 4. Shouldn't down DI be better than down and away to get out of fthrow to fsmash from marth..it just seems like there is little vertical movement to di so i'd think you'd lose too much, making down the better option.

question 5: so at 30% roughly in a chaingrab vs fox if they don't di you have to uptilt? and if they do di you uptilt? i thought it didn't hit at the tip if they don't di..but someone else says it does...i'll go check..anyways, can you pivot grab and get them before they shine/ jump out...i get the feeling jumping out wouldn't work...shine should work i think.

how do shine's work..if a shine is already out can you grab through it? ie i don't think it's a continual attack, meaning the fox would have to react perfectly to get the shine timed exactly right..

anyways, if they di to the sides, should you regrab or just uptilt? i think they can still shine in those cases too..so i'm guessing just use uptilt regardless at 30%? it's just i thought that at 30% no di +uptilt equals no combo

1/2. I believe it's the same speed when landing from an aerial attack. If you're dashing and want to grab, it is faster to do a JC grab than cancel into a shield then grab.

3. Z (grab) will always happen.

4. Down DI is the only DI which works for escaping marth's fsmash after an fthrow or dthrow.

5. I'm not sure on percentages yet. I have five phases in a fox chaingrab: 1) uthrow without hitting fox for ~5 throws, 2) uthrow with hitting fox for ~4 throws, 3) uthrow with utilt then maybe a grab and another utilt or a second depending on what the fox does 4) uthrow to uair for a few hits 5) uthrow to fair or bair then edgeguard

- You can grab a fox after it shines and while the shine is out
- Do what is necessary to keep the fox in a combo and in the air. If utilt accomplishes that, then do it. You might even try wavedash to utilt, or dash to wavedash to utilt.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I've got another question about grabbing.

Does the dash attack cancel go farther than a normal dash grab. I wanted to know this because I've got a friend who plays Jigglypuff and I have to be very carefull with my grabs so I don't get rested out of them.

I've also noticed that I missed a lot of JC grabs on Jigglypuff when she lands from doing an aerial. Does she automatically crouch on landing or is there some other explination.

I've recently been pivoting smashes on my friend out of a foward throw and it's been working quite well. My friend says that he can't seem to get out of it and I want to know if that's 100% correct. I also want to know at what percentages is he thrown to far for my pivot to reach.

 

[JesiahTEG]

whoa, umbc back up pal. I'm confused now. When I get grabbed by a Marth, I always di AWAY, and I never get fsmashed. If you di down, sure you can escape the fsmash, but won't that make it easier for a marth to fsmash you after they Uthrow?

DI'ing away does work to escape fthrow-->fsmash btw

 

[Aesir]

^ soemtimes, however soemtimes it doesn't work at all and you get fsmashed in the face especially when thrown off the stage down and away is always a better option imo. >_>

 

[JBM falcon08]

if your on the edge and you are going to get f smashed but your at a percent to where you know you will survive due to DI, wouldn't it be a smarter choice to just take the hit and DI up so your recovery is much easier rather than going under and taking the chance of being dtilted or fsmashed?

basically what i'm saying at percents such as like 80-100, wouldn't it be a good idea (i'm sorry if this sounds stupid) to DI towards them so they will get the fsmash but you will be much higher so you will be recovering from the top corners of the screen.

 

[JesiahTEG]

I think if your around 80-100 and you DI into them, it will lead into a perfect tipper. Maybe at lower percents that would be a good idea. or maybe i'm just an idiot and my thoughts are backwards. idk.

 

[Aesir]

at like 0 its better to not even DI no matter what you do you're going to get fsmashed lol.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

at like 0 its better to not even DI no matter what you do you're going to get fsmashed lol.

Wrong. Down DI is impossible to fsmash. A good marth against a good marth will fthrow twice then probably uthrow.

I think if your around 80-100 and you DI into them, it will lead into a perfect tipper. Maybe at lower percents that would be a good idea. or maybe i'm just an idiot and my thoughts are backwards. idk.

If there is time to DI (there always is), then DI down. Why get fsmashed when you can escape it?

if your on the edge and you are going to get f smashed but your at a percent to where you know you will survive due to DI, wouldn't it be a smarter choice to just take the hit and DI up so your recovery is much easier rather than going under and taking the chance of being dtilted or fsmashed?

basically what i'm saying at percents such as like 80-100, wouldn't it be a good idea (i'm sorry if this sounds stupid) to DI towards them so they will get the fsmash but you will be much higher so you will be recovering from the top corners of the screen.

I'd prefer just getting thrown off rather than thrown then fsmashed off the stage. If you get dtilted, it's your fault. It is possible to make it harder to get fsmashed by fast falling before you up B. Mew2King did it to me and I could rarely hit him with an fsmash when edgeguarding.

whoa, umbc back up pal. I'm confused now. When I get grabbed by a Marth, I always di AWAY, and I never get fsmashed. If you di down, sure you can escape the fsmash, but won't that make it easier for a marth to fsmash you after they Uthrow?

DI'ing away does work to escape fthrow-->fsmash btw

If you DI away at low percentages (< ~20%) then you will get fsmash tippered. If the marth uthrows you, then simply change your DI once you see the uthrow coming.

I've got another question about grabbing.

Does the dash attack cancel go farther than a normal dash grab. I wanted to know this because I've got a friend who plays Jigglypuff and I have to be very carefull with my grabs so I don't get rested out of them.

I've also noticed that I missed a lot of JC grabs on Jigglypuff when she lands from doing an aerial. Does she automatically crouch on landing or is there some other explination.

I've recently been pivoting smashes on my friend out of a foward throw and it's been working quite well. My friend says that he can't seem to get out of it and I want to know if that's 100% correct. I also want to know at what percentages is he thrown to far for my pivot to reach.

The JC grab goes the same distance as a standing grab (because that's what it is), which is actually a shorter grab than a non jump-cancelled grab. However, the lack in reach is outweighed by the improvement in speed if the grab whiffs.

In the marth vs Jiggylypuff match-up, you don't want to grab unless you know you can get it off. Don't play that match-up like marth vs fox or you'll get *****. Marth can't grab jigglypuff when she's crouching, and trying to grab leaves marth wide open for part of a second, which is all Jigglypuff needs for a rest.

I don't understand the purpose of pivoting after an fthrow. I'd have to see that in a vid.

 

[FrostByte]

When I DI away from Marth at low %, I never get Fsmashed. If I do not DI at all, I will get tippered. Is there a difference in the pal version then? I thought that since Marth is lighter, he'd get fsmashed easier. That doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

When I DI away from Marth at low %, I never get Fsmashed. If I do not DI at all, I will get tippered. Is there a difference in the pal version then? I thought that since Marth is lighter, he'd get fsmashed easier. That doesn't seem to be the case.

Wow, state ahead of time that you're playing PAL version. Everything is different in that. For NTSC, down DI is the only way to not get fsmashed after an fthrow.

 

[Aesir]

Wrong. Down DI is impossible to fsmash. A good marth against a good marth will fthrow twice then probably uthrow.

Heh I remember PC telling me at 0% not to even DI >_>

 

[Dark Sonic]

Wrong. Down DI is impossible to fsmash. A good marth against a good marth will fthrow twice then probably uthrow.

If there is time to DI (there always is), then DI down. Why get fsmashed when you can escape it?

I'd prefer just getting thrown off rather than thrown then fsmashed off the stage. If you get dtilted, it's your fault. It is possible to make it harder to get fsmashed by fast falling before you up B. Mew2King did it to me and I could rarely hit him with an fsmash when edgeguarding.

If you DI away at low percentages (< ~20%) then you will get fsmash tippered. If the marth uthrows you, then simply change your DI once you see the uthrow coming.

The JC grab goes the same distance as a standing grab (because that's what it is), which is actually a shorter grab than a non jump-cancelled grab. However, the lack in reach is outweighed by the improvement in speed if the grab whiffs.

In the marth vs Jiggylypuff match-up, you don't want to grab unless you know you can get it off. Don't play that match-up like marth vs fox or you'll get *****. Marth can't grab jigglypuff when she's crouching, and trying to grab leaves marth wide open for part of a second, which is all Jigglypuff needs for a rest.

I don't understand the purpose of pivoting after an fthrow. I'd have to see that in a vid.

Yes you can grab a crouching Jigglypuff. I've done it a million times. The dash grab reaches low enough to get her. That's why I'm asking about the dash attack cancel grab and not the JC grab. I want to know if it will extend my dash grab animation so I can do it from farther away and outrange her aerials. That's also why I want to know if she auto crouches after landing from an aerial. The JC grab doesn't reach her down there, but the dash grab does.

If you pivot with the c-stick then you could dash foward and smash her after a f-throw. I've found this to work with away DI until about 85%. That makes a very easy kill on Jigglypuff after a succesful grab.

This is probably the only match where I'll ever need to NOT jump cancel a grab, so I want to use the best alternative.

 

[dude225]

ok, so regarding the ken combo, what percentages does it work on space animals and floatier characters (perhaps samus and other marths)?

would a fair then uair work better than a double fair for setting it up? also, do i have to tip the fair on all the characters or just certain ones?

kk ty

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^ On fast fallers you'll need to tip the fair if you want to jump before dairing. However, if your at the edge, but you can land on the stage right after the dair and don't need to jump then you can hit them with an untipped fair and follow them down with a dair. On floaty characters like Marth then you should tip the fair at low percentages and not tip it at middle percentages. You may also full hop a tipped fair for a ken combo at middle percentages. I think it's mostly reacting to thier DI to see if you can do it, but most of the time you'll want to tip the fair.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Heh I remember PC telling me at 0% not to even DI >_>

It's up to you if you want to listen to me. I'm just repeating what Husband told me.

However, down DI > no DI.

 

[knightpraetor]

well, for normal dash to jump cancels the up + X and Z did improve my accuracy..however, it's still hard as hell to get used to trying to slam right then left then up for when i'm chaingrabbing fox and need to jump cancel to get the 20% -30% area

oh btw..people always mention that i should just jump cancel..should i do that when landing from an aerial as well? i think it would be easier to just do L + A since you said i lose no time by doing that...anyways thanks for the info..now i no longer have to risk using Z which might cause me to light shield instead...though i guess i could still press A early in which case i just won't grab and will have to press it again..so i dunno if i've gained much the thing is it seems easier to just repress A then remember to hold Z and then press A which is what i have to do if i hit Z early in the other case.

wow, this post contributes nothing:\ but just consider it a thank you

 

[Hitaku]

I was wondering what the best way to preform a double fair was. Atm when I short hop I use the X button and tap the right side of it. The issue with that is when I tap the right side I am going the opposite direction of the A button and when I make it back to press it usually its to slow to get the double fair off.

After talking to some people I was told that Y can be useful for it because when using Y your finger is already over the A button. Another thing that I was thinking of was possibly keeping my current short hop key options (X) and then just use Z rather then A. Now I understand that there is no "best" way as far as what keys to use seeing as its preference but I was wondering what most of you out there use.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

I was wondering what the best way to preform a double fair was. Atm when I short hop I use the X button and tap the right side of it. The issue with that is when I tap the right side I am going the opposite direction of the A button and when I make it back to press it usually its to slow to get the double fair off.

After talking to some people I was told that Y can be useful for it because when using Y your finger is already over the A button. Another thing that I was thinking of was possibly keeping my current short hop key options (X) and then just use Z rather then A. Now I understand that there is no "best" way as far as what keys to use seeing as its preference but I was wondering what most of you out there use.

This has been answered dozens of times. However, here is a copy and pasted response from my marth guide:

Short Hop Double Fair (SHDF):

This is a useful skill for marth players in stringing together combos and possibly ending in a second jump dair for a “Ken Combo”. Ken, Azen, Neo, Husband, Mew2King, and others (including myself) perform this by pressing A for the first fair then using the C-stick for the 2nd. It is the fastest, most reliable way of doing the SHDF. Using the C-stick for the second fair also allows for marth to DI in order to maintain proper spacing from his opponent. When practicing the move, pay attention to when the animation for the fair ends, because that is when the 2nd fair should come out. At first it will be difficult to get the entire second fair out before hitting the ground. With time and practice however, the move becomes fluid and easy.
Note: Jumping may be performed with either X or Y. As a general rule, the control stick should not be used to jump.

 

[Hitaku]

wow heh, I cant imagine using the C-stick for the second one. I have issues getting it off by just spamming A once in the short hop T_T. I can do it by pressing Z rather then A but often times I just JC grab and thats no good =P. I guess I will just need to learn to short hop by actually pressing the button faster rather then just hitting the side of it.

 

[FrostByte]

Wow, state ahead of time that you're playing PAL version. Everything is different in that.

Even when I play NTSC, it's still the same unless you're talking about escaping the following grab, which I don't even bother until over tumble %.

 

[Aesir]

How come Cactuar is so good now? this is a serious question >_>

 

[Cactuar]

This has been answered dozens of times. However, here is a copy and pasted response from my marth guide:

Short Hop Double Fair (SHDF):

This is a useful skill for marth players in stringing together combos and possibly ending in a second jump dair for a “Ken Combo”. Ken, Azen, Neo, Husband, Mew2King, and others (including myself) perform this by pressing A for the first fair then using the C-stick for the 2nd. It is the fastest, most reliable way of doing the SHDF. Using the C-stick for the second fair also allows for marth to DI in order to maintain proper spacing from his opponent. When practicing the move, pay attention to when the animation for the fair ends, because that is when the 2nd fair should come out. At first it will be difficult to get the entire second fair out before hitting the ground. With time and practice however, the move becomes fluid and easy.
Note: Jumping may be performed with either X or Y. As a general rule, the control stick should not be used to jump.

I use Y -> A for the first fair unless I'm doing retreating double fairs. I don't have a problem with doing sh double fairs with just the C-stick though, so it really doesn't matter how you want to do them. If you can manage to get your fingers fast enough to be able to do all aerials with C-stick, it just gives you massive air control (air control = better spacing and movement).

 

[JesiahTEG]

I gotta question. I want to use Utilts more, and after asking around my friend told me of a weird way to set up a utilt. Falling Uair--> Utilt. It does indeed work, but I find it difficult to hit someone with a falling Uair. Does anyone have any ideas as to how to set up the Uair? Remember, for this to work the opponent has to be on the ground.

 

[Dark Sonic]

SH fair to Uair works well. There's really not that many ways to set up for a uair on the ground. If you do happen to hit with a falling uair then by all means follow it, but it's a very situational strategy.

 

[tyjets212]

When I try to Wavedash, sometimes I do I high jump or I dodge only slight slanted.

Is this something with Marth or am I doing something wrong?

 

[Cactuar]

You are just timing it wrong/tilting the stick wrong.

 

[JesiahTEG]

I have a question. Did you guys know that Roy's sword is actually longer than Marth's, but Roy's arms are shorter?

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Jesiah, marth's range is better than Roy's because his sword tips at the end. Roy's sword is almost ineffective at the tip. As for the overall range though, I believe it's about the same because as you said his longer sword makes up for his short arms. Maybe the reason Roy can only swing once per short hop is because his sword is too big for him to handle compared to the relative ease of Marth?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Jesiah, marth's range is better than Roy's because his sword tips at the end. Roy's sword is almost ineffective at the tip.

LOL c'mon man, don't insult me. I'm not a complete idiot, I just need help with a few things once in a while.

No, Marth's range is longer than Roy's, I'm just saying. ppl think Marth's sword is longer, but it's not. He still has more range though.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

LOL c'mon man, don't insult me. I'm not a complete idiot, I just need help with a few things once in a while.

No, Marth's range is longer than Roy's, I'm just saying. ppl think Marth's sword is longer, but it's not. He still has more range though.

lol yeah, I was just pointing out the obvious for other people since things aren't always so obvious to people who don't play the game a lot. I didn't mean any offense.

 

[JesiahTEG]

lol it's alright dude, but maybe you have some ideas to answer my other question?

I want to use Utilts more, and after asking around my friend told me of a weird way to set up a utilt. Falling Uair--> Utilt. It does indeed work, but I find it difficult to hit someone with a falling Uair. Does anyone have any ideas as to how to set up the Uair? Remember, for this to work the opponent has to be on the ground.

 

[Cactuar]

Falling uair is good if you are too close to tipper with a fair, as the uair tippers closer to you. The tippered uair will cause more shield stun, letting you have a bigger window to escape/punish them.

A fun slightly risky thing to do is falling tipper uair into a reverse utilt, as Marth will lean forward and avoid a shield grab (credit to LK for showing me that).