Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[WhiteOblv]

Its soooo weird to change from Fox and Falco to Marth, everything is just so different.

Then pic one character and just main them >_>.

 

[Baha]

Then pic one character and just main them >_>.

ah but what's the fun in that!
Falco is my main but I want to be able to play with Marth nicely as my second char

 

[tyjets212]

What is spotdoging?

Also, I am learning to washdash. And 80% of the time, I am facing a different direction/holding the shield at the end/ or short wavedashing. Is wavedashing a flowing movement? Or is it a "sequence of buttons" type of motion.

JC Grab- Do I press y/x at the same time as Z or shortly before?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Spotdodging is just doing the side step dodge in place.

For JC grab I hit up on the analog stick then hit Z at the same time. You could also hit X/Y and Z to do it. You would hit the jump button at the same time as the Z button. Cactuar hits X and presses up on the analog stick while he hits Z. It's like he gets 2 chances to get right and thier are less chances of messing it up.

 

[shirryuoni]

Hey guys, sup kevin it's javier.

Reasons why I get grabbed:
-Vs space animals, I get caught with jab grabs alot. x.x;
-Vs captain falcon and dash dance camps. after I miss a aerial sometimes I get grabbed inbetween my cancels.
- .. VS SHIEK. needle grabbed, again with the jab grabs.
- vs falco i get lazer grabbed.

And guys with the link problems about being shield grabbed, and vs escesive shield grabbers period, If you space a f-air just enough to get hit stun from the move, you can dash through them, and dash dance a grab. also concider canceling into utilt whenever you attack a shield, since utilt starts up closer to the person and will come out faster then a close dtilt. you can also try a single forward b after a f-air, and then go into dtilt, that can be sometime safe as well.

 

[Emblem Lord]

All attacks cause hit stun regardless of spacing. Also dashing away or dashing through an opponent will channge according to yur spacing and who your facing. You will NEVER want to dash through Link unless you want to eat a spin attack.

U-tilt doesn't beat out shield grabs except for the people who grab slowly i.e Zelda and a few others I think.

Forward B after after a fair followed by a d-tilt? No. I'm sorry, but that isn't safe at all. Marth is better off rolling, spot dodging or dashing after a shuffle. Which is fine. Because no other characters besides Fox and CF can really utilize dashing after aerials like he can. Only d-tilt after a fair if you are facing characters with crappy grab range.

Edit: And I think you posted this in the wrong thread. You didn't really ask a qauestion. I think you meant to post that in Husbands thread about avoiding grabs.

 

[Silver Sytos]

Can you explain up-air, like the sweet spots and uses of it?

Where exactly is the sweet spot? I know if you shuffl with it and hit the person with the side of the blade (right next to falling marth) they go up and get f'ed up lol. Is there one also on the tip above marth? What are some comboes to use them in? I know the lag on this is horrible, so should we avoid using uair unless we're near the ground?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Explain the sweetspot? It's at the tip of the balde. Like all of Marth's A moves. Nothing much to explain. If you hit with the tip they get juggled. If you don't hit with the tip they still get juggled just not as high.

There isn't much to say about it IMO. The lag is anything, but horrible. 7 Frames. The least amount of lag an aerial can have when L-cancelled. You use it to juggle opponents then go for f-smash, a spike, or a nair. It's a combo extender or it can start combos. When juggling fast fallers you usally want to hit with the tip. When juggling floaties try to make the hits non tippered hits. Of course your opponents percentage will also affect whether or not you want the hits to be sweetspot hits.

Maybe another Marth player has more to say, but the uses of the Uair are pretty straight forward IMO.

 

[JesiahTEG]

I'd just like to say, if your waiting for an opponent to fall down and your underneath them...Use a mix of Utilts and Uairs, to throw them off. for example, il'll wait for someone to fall, and utilt. wait for them to fall, utilt. Then, ill wait for them to fall and throw them off with a uair, see what im saying, i think its good to mix up utilts and uairs, they work well together to throw ppl off.

 

[balladechina212]

When you're under a platform and your opponent is teching on the platform above, it is often better to SHFFL an uair rather than use an utilt. Because, then, if you miss, there isn't as much lag for them to punish you with.

 

[Silver Sytos]

I know if you shuffl with it and hit the person with the side of the blade (right next to falling marth) they go up and get f'ed up lol.

What about the odd sweet spot when they're right next to you?

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

What about the odd sweet spot when they're right next to you?

If marth fsmashes and the person is right next to him, they will go unscathed because marth extends his body when he swings.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Nothing odd about it. The tip of the blade is right next to Marth in the first frames if the arc when he swings the sword upwards. It's just a normal tipper hit.

UMBC: He was talking about Marth's Uair. And I'm certain that his opponent will still take a hit even if they are right next to him, if he f-smashes. Just a non-sweetspot hit.

 

[Scimmia]

Although I can wavedash fast, It only happens in like spurts of 2 wavedashes, then for some reason I always do a high jump. Am I not keeping my finger in rythmatic form, and what would be my best bet to practice wavedash- aerials - wavedash and so on>?

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Nothing odd about it. The tip of the blade is right next to Marth in the first frames if the arc when he swings the sword upwards. It's just a normal tipper hit.

UMBC: He was talking about Marth's Uair. And I'm certain that his opponent will still take a hit even if they are right next to him, if he f-smashes. Just a non-sweetspot hit.

Check out my vid on youtube vs sheik from this March. There are multiple occasions where I fsmashed sheik when she was clearly in front of me, but the fsmash extends marth's body so it doesn't hit.

 

[Brightside6382]

Although I can wavedash fast, It only happens in like spurts of 2 wavedashes, then for some reason I always do a high jump. Am I not keeping my finger in rythmatic form, and what would be my best bet to practice wavedash- aerials - wavedash and so on>?

Play more with other people or go into melee mode with a lvl 1 comp and practice practice. There is no trick to getting down tech skill its just practice.

 

[Emblem Lord]

UMBC: Was Shiek crouching or dashing forward? Or did she just stand there and the f-smash completely missed her?

 

[dude225]

can you please explain the difference in Smash DI and normal DI? also, i have heard of ASDI... wth is it?

thanks in advanced and it is appreciated.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

UMBC: Was Shiek crouching or dashing forward? Or did she just stand there and the f-smash completely missed her?

Sheik had just finished her dash attack.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ahhh. That explains it. When she finishes her dash attack her body is sort of half way behind Marth letting her bypass the f-smash. That has happen to me before. But never when a person was just standing there. It's usually when they are in an animation that puts there bodies somewhat behind Marth.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Its not purely a marth question but I'm quite confused..I was fighting my friends peach, she f-throwed me off the ledge and I up-bed back only to be edgeguarded with the d-smash, I ledgeteched it though, I watched marth turn his back and flash white but about .5 seconds later, I go flying despite me being invincible...I teched the blow yet I got hit again, I thought my invincible frames protected me after a tech?..any explanation for this?

 

[Randizzle]

my best guess is that you teched the very beginning of the dsmash and accidentally jumped into one of the later hits of the dsmash since it's an attack that lasts quite a while. I know the invincibility frames are definitely enough to protect you from getting hit by the dsmash again.
I've edge teched the dsmash several times before with different characters and I don't think I've seen that happen.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Same here, I ledgeteched it thousands of times and thats never happened, my invincible frames were still there yet I was hit again.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Ahhh. That explains it. When she finishes her dash attack her body is sort of half way behind Marth letting her bypass the f-smash. That has happen to me before. But never when a person was just standing there. It's usually when they are in an animation that puts there bodies somewhat behind Marth.

Actually I've had wierder things happen. My friend and I were in a Marth ditto and I noticed that Marth's Ledge attack at less than 100% doen't hit the opponent if their standing at the edge. Me and him retried it multiple times and it missed every time.

Also if the opponent is walking towards you and you foward smash up close you miss. I don't mean that they're walking past you. I mean that if they are still in front of you, but partially overlapping you then your f-smash misses. The same thing happens with Marth's grab and I've had it happen a few times with the D-tilt.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You edge teched an early hit of the d-smash and you get hit by a late hit of the d-smash. very simple. And very ghey.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

But..but..invinciblity frames...lol

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Actually I've had wierder things happen. My friend and I were in a Marth ditto and I noticed that Marth's Ledge attack at less than 100% doen't hit the opponent if their standing at the edge. Me and him retried it multiple times and it missed every time.

Also if the opponent is walking towards you and you foward smash up close you miss. I don't mean that they're walking past you. I mean that if they are still in front of you, but partially overlapping you then your f-smash misses. The same thing happens with Marth's grab and I've had it happen a few times with the D-tilt.

Yes, I noticed the ledge attack missing thing recently as well.

This is why I think marth's body extends somewhat beyond him when fsmashing, so that the fsmash completely misses anything in that small section near where he stands.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Characters with fast dashes can dash past Marth as he f-smashes if they are close enough, but if they are just standing next to him they will get hit.

Basically if they are just standing there they will get hit, but if they are doing something that outs them somewhat behind them, then they will avoid the f-smash.

Marth has alot of blindspots and wierd hit properties on his attacks.

 

[Hitaku]

I have a few questions, how long does Marth's counter actually last for? Second, when setting up for a smash whats the best throw to use (excluding terrain)? Is there much of a difference between down throw and back throw?

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

I have a few questions, how long does Marth's counter actually last for? Second, when setting up for a smash whats the best throw to use (excluding terrain)? Is there much of a difference between down throw and back throw?

I'll try to answer some of these.

As for the exact timing of marth's counter, perhaps someone else could get those statistics. I think M2K might have them on his site. However, when using the counter you need to keep a few things in mind: it slows down marth's fall speed temporarily, which means the opponent might not hit marth (leaving him open). For me, I use counter as a mindgame sometimes as an easy way to get back on the stage; I bait my opponent to hit me and just counter. I'd estimate the counter to last for about 1 second after the "shing" sound.

It's often possible to get a fsmash after an fthrow for certain charaters (marth, peach, or any character that misses the tech). Against space animals at mid percentages, uthrow can lead to an fsmash. Dthrow sometimes works if the opponent DIs poorly. Bthrow can be used to put the opponent on a platform, which can lead to an fsmash tipper on certain stages or utilt on others. That is also the difference between dthrow and bthrow. In general however, you want to use dthrow.

 

[Hitaku]

Thanks for the info =). I wasn't aware one of the throws could send an opponent onto a platform while the other couldn't. Thats some very useful information =P. Ya, as far as the counter I don't use it much at all. Like you, I often use it for mind games when I feel opponent is guaranteed to hit me.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Ok,a simple question.

All of the JC grabs I have been doing are usually with X+Z,but recently I have been hitting up on the joy-stick+Z.

Even though i'm not as accustomed to it,I can land my grabs more fluidly and precisely.So,should I just implement this method insted?

Even though it is personal preferance,what do you prefer?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Cactaur uses both methods at the same time. Hit hits the jump button, the Z button and up on the analong stick at the same time. Less room for error.

 

[Aesir]

I'm gonna say that control stick Up + Z = little chance for error.

when I gc with Y+Z I Usually land it 70% of the time with the control stick it was close to 100 and it felt more comfortable.

anyway I got a question.

after landing an airal if its missed meaning didn't hit at all. would it be better to back off and camp (IE: dash dance camping) or to chase after them.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I usually buffer a roll if I know my aerial is going to whiff. Sometimes I will dash back and then dash back in with a pivot grab though.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Marth will grab as long as Z is pressed in the frames before he lifts off the ground. It's completely a matter of preference for which method works better. I am more comfortable using Y + Z to grab, but a fox player who uses the joy + up for JC usmashes would probably like to JC grab the same way. Just find what works best for you and stick with it.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

This has fallen down quite abit and about three people have made topics that could have been asked here. *Lifts topic and drops it back at top*

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

A few questions:

1. From exactly what percent to what percent does marth's fthrow to dash attack work? Is there no way for the other marth to escape from it (i.e. down DI, away DI), and all variations do not prevent the follow-up dash attack? Only down DI prevents it?

2. Do any other variations of down DI (i.e. down + away) work for avoiding marth's chaingrab/fsmash after a fthrow?

3. Does the extent to which the control stick is facing down (like tilting but not fully down) effect DI?

4. When exactly must the DI be performed for throws (i.e. marth's fthrow!) in order for it to take effect? Is it before the throw is executed?

5. Which way should I DI when falcon is uair comboing me across the stage?

6. How does marth beat pikachu? Same with Pichu and Ness. Chu's pika/pichu/ness are too goodz.

7. This isn't really a question, but it seems when I miss techs is usually if I am about to l-cancel but get hit. I can't hit L again to tech because it has already been pressed too soon to when I hit the ground. Is there a way around this that I am missing?

8. How much longer till I stop sucking? I've been playing for 7 months already!

Maybe it's my controller, but I've been having trouble DIing down. I'll even look at my controller and see it is in the perfect down position and M2K will continue chaingrabbing me. I know down DI works because I have tested it with Husband (with an old controller). I also can't perform the firefox next to the ledge with fox and falco with this controller. Curse switching controllers!

 

[Cactuar]

1. Dependent on DI. I'm assuming you are talking about being thrown off the stage into a dash attack. It works well into high mid percents though. I know M2K does this a lot, and generally if I assume he's going to do this I DI down and slightly into him, so that I am next the the stage when I get hit by the dash attack (usually weak hit dash attack because I DI'd in). I can often tech it because I'm next to the stage, but if I can't, it's still just weak hit. Unfortunately, M2K edgeguarding is also death.

2-5. Husband should answer. I don't really think about DI at this point. Magus knows a lot about that stuff too.

6. Marth swings his sword. VS Chu: You are playing vs Chu, not vs pika/pichu/ness, so matchup help will only get you so far. To beat his novelty characters, you just have to get better first. (Plus Chu is a dumbazz, so once you get to that point, he won't turn down the money matches. It's like free money! )

7. Always l-cancel as if you are light shielding. L-cancelling doesn't require you to actually hit the button, just that you compress it a bit. Teching requires the button in the shoulders to be pressed.

8. Dependent. Largely on natural talent.

Controller makes a huge difference though. Once you have a high level of technical ability, you end up taking it for granted due to you being used to a certain controller. That controller breaks, you get a new one, and you realize you can't do a lot of the stuff that you could before. But yeah, I don't use down DI, so I've never had that problem...

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Thanks Cactuar. I find it surprising that you don't use down DI. At the very least I'd think you would use it at 0-~20% then DI away. Then again, you beat Husband so... I'm still experimenting with variations in DI from down to away or even up and in, though I try to stick and do what Husband tells me.

Now I have 2 more questions:

- Since teching requires the control stick's "shoulder" to be pressed in, when I am recovering as marth wouldn't it be easier to ledge tech if I press L/R in partially so that I can more quickly react for a tech? Or would that make me air dodge? I won't be able to test this stuff out till tomorrow evening; normally I would just test it out for myself

- What are the practical applications for light shielding? For instance, when I KO my opponent and if there are platforms, then I jump then air dodge to the platform then press Z to light shield. I suppose I could also press L/R slightly, but the Z light shield is perfectly large. Also I can roll to the edge of the stage and light shield with Z to edge hog another marth. However, are there other uses for it?