Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[JesiahTEG]

A fun slightly risky thing to do is falling tipper uair into a reverse utilt, as Marth will lean forward and avoid a shield grab (credit to LK for showing me that).

I don't know what you meant. You have to be behind their shield?

 

[Emblem Lord]

No. Do a tippered uair then when you l-cancel it, turn around and do an u-tilt.

 

[Omni]

I don't know what you meant. You have to be behind their shield?

Up-air, reverse up-tilt. Avoids the shieldgrab while the end of the up-tilt hits opponent. It also needs to be spaced well.

The easiest way to actually hit up-airs IMO is with shielding opponents on platforms. The average Marth wants to leap toward a player on a platform with an f-air. That's why the average person will shield if Marth is in range to do this, however, you can use that as an advantage by jumping toward them and doing nothing. I find it better to full hop and not fast fall since it allows them to shield longer. At the last possible moment, you can probably land an up-air because:

1.) Their shield is low enough.
2.) The person attempts to jump out of shield.

Hard to explain it if you can't grasp the concept, but for those who can catch my drift.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

I caught your drift, Omni. I've been thinking up different ways I can take advantage of shielding opponents. One way which I have yet to test out (no one to play but cpus) is when the opponent - say a marth - hits the side of the joystick to get up from the ledge onto the stage. Usually they'll immediately shield. Well, I was thinking I could charge an fsmash (maybe neutral B too) when he does that (pivot the fsmash or whatever works). If he jumps out of shield then I'll let the fsmash go and he'll get hit, and his shield gets smaller during the charge process which means he might actually suffer the hit. In addition, if he wavedashes toward me then he is vulnerable for a little while, and he is so close to the ledge that it's likely he'll air dodge off in an attempt to wavedash to the ledge for safety.

Just one of my ideas.

 

[knightpraetor]

so question about sheik's jabs..as i understand it sheik's jab is roughly as fast as a shieldgrab if they L-cancel and do it on the first available frame...it may even be the exact same speed, i forget..

but anyways, after sheik jabs, I can try to shieldgrab but she may jab again..i assume that will indeed hit me if i try..so i basically have to call the number of jabs she will choose to use? she can't do more than two? without going into the rapid A version in which case i can just roll behind and punish or maybe wavedash back and punish? i forget what options will get through there...so few opponents use rapid A's for a reason i'm sure...can you aerial out of the shield when they do rapid A's?

anyways, that's a lot of questions..but they're relatively simple so i'm sure someone can help me out here.

oh and btw..mew2king's 4 hit double edge dance during the finals of MLG long island..was priceless...so hard to setup but if you can get the third hit as an up, the 4th goes up as well relatively easily...the trouble is hitting them at the right point with the 3rd hit so they go into range for the 4th...

oh now i remember my last question..this one is far harder for me to understand...so i was watching the doubles finals and i'm confused about why people counterpicked as they did..like why did chu choose to go pikachu over IC the second match...and then isai and mew2king counterpicked peach and sheik...

i don't understand doubles matches as all..i only play singles...so i'm confused as to the whole counterpicking thing

 

[Dark Sonic]

For Marth it's called the Dancing Blade, not the Double Edge Dance. Get your names right lol.

 

[Cactuar]

Who cares, it's called a forward b.

@UMBC: I used to bait people into getting up by dashing away into a pivot charging fsmash. I rarely bother with pivots these days though... it's not as useful as most people make it out to be. There are just too many setups for Marth's attacks to need the ability to randomly throw out single smashes/tilts/jabs. Actually, I still love pivot jabbing people, but only in friendlies when I'm messing around.

 

[S_K]

Can someone give me some strats to beat Luigi and Mario because what I do is by doing dgrab back forth then mix in some fsmash and upairs

 

[knightpraetor]

no answers to my questions..oh well, since i couldn't get those answered yet..let's throw out some more.

with marth..i'm supposed to switch to fairs in the chainthrow around some percentage..i'm guessing this is when they di away ..if they don't di i can just upair...and at higher percentages non-sweetspot upair...anyways, people who use this can you give me some rough estimate of when and where?

umm, dthrow of marth vs sheik or marth..at what damages is it a guaranteed fsmash if they don't di? when can they tech out of it..and does down di help like for the fthrow so that you can avoid getting fsmashed at low damage?

 

[tyjets212]

Haha, I can do ledgehopped aerials, pivot, l-cancel, JC Grab, ken combo and even waveland.

But I can't short-hop consistently. No matter what I do, I always take a high jump. Any suggestions?

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Press the button lightly if you use Y or X lol...

 

[Randizzle]

it's all about how quickly you press it then let go of it. how hard you press it down doesn't matter, but it's a good mental aid.

 

[ArcNatural]

Might as well throw this one out there, just so you can put it in this thread. What are the best ways to ensure being able to smash DI Fox's upthrow to upair? I think it's impossible if they are spot on in lower %. But I think in Mid to higher percentages I think your supposed to DI up and then Smash DI left or right? I'm not entirely sure anymore, I just try to smash DI in any direction and I get mixed results. But a definite method would help.

 

[FrostByte]

with marth..i'm supposed to switch to fairs in the chainthrow around some percentage..i'm guessing this is when they di away ..if they don't di i can just upair...and at higher percentages non-sweetspot upair...anyways, people who use this can you give me some rough estimate of when and where?

It's better not to use fairs. It's better to utilt, Fsmash then edgeguard. If your opponent DI's behind you, you won't be able to uair at mid % So just Fsmash them. If you get another grab, Fsmash them again. If they don't DI, walk forward, then Fsmash.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ok. I have a request. Can someone tell me who they think has the advantage in the Marth vs Link matchup, and on waht stages. For example:

Final Destination: Link 60/40
Yoshi's Story: Marth 60/40

Those are just examples, but I'd like to know what everyone thinks for every legal level. After that, if someone could provide explanations for their reasoning that would help me a lot.

 

[Lord Knight]

but anyways, after sheik jabs, I can try to shieldgrab but she may jab again..i assume that will indeed hit me if i try..so i basically have to call the number of jabs she will choose to use? she can't do more than two?

Protip, when Sheik does some stupid fair > jab stuff, just sheild the jab then hold down and towards and mash grab. If she does a second jab you'll just CC it and grab anyway.

 

[Randizzle]

My experience is that it's a fairly even matchup that depends on the stage and the playing style of the link. Link's projectile game can be a bit frustrating and he's got some pretty powerful combos, but marth can really punish link's lag and combo link pretty well.

FD and stadium are the toughest levels for me against link. Approaching him with marth is really quite annoying on those levels. Battlefield and Yoshi's story tend to be pretty manageable since they're relatively smaller stages with platforms, plus battlefield limits link's recovery options a bit.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ya, as my friend says FD is gg marth. lol

 

[Randizzle]

FD is the usually when I just switch to fox or sheik against a good link.

 

[Mew2King]

Marth has the advantage over every character in the game except Sheik and maybe Captain Falcon on FD

 

[Emblem Lord]

I hate CF. Then I love him again because he is too amazing.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Emblem lord..I've noticed alot of questions went unanswered and many people are ignoring this thread again..should we let it die and make a fresh one or just scream this one at them?

 

[knightpraetor]

frostbyte, i was referring to like 80 or 90% maybe when fox di's away and then plans to jump out..you can't wavedash to fsmash i think..or uptilt in time..you have to dash to a Fair to combo? i think you're supposed to tip? not sure

anyways, more questions..i realized that i don't really know what i should be doing as a marth when i dfair and hit with nonsweetspots...grabs are good i think..but when should i risk continuing fair comboes..i'm guessin not on someone with a lot of range like marth


i dunno i don't think about it much in matches...comboing a comp it seems easy to keep aerialling even with nonsweetspotted aerials unless tehy do one of those nairs in between.

on fastfallers..you can't really do it..got to switch to upair on the second hit or they touch down and can shield or what not...

anyways, i was practicing against a comp link just to see how much i could combo..and it seemed almost forever with it's bad di so long as he doesn't neutral air...against a human it's hard to do that of course..but even so..recommendations and videos or whatnot..when do i continue aerialling after a dfair and when do i go for a tilt or grab and just end the juggle

edit: about fox's upair..there was a huge debate on this on the fox forums or something...but basically from the throw you di away from them and then smash DI in and up or in or in and down..i forget which..i think that was the debate

 

[Emblem Lord]

B-Will said he would sticky this. If you see more threads that ask very simple questions, just go into those threads and try to answer thier question as best you can or wait until someone else has answered it. Then tell them that in the future they should post whatever questions they have in this thread.

 

[Cactuar]

People could just message me on AIM and I'll answer their questions more thoroughly.

AIM: WSFL Cactuar

 

[tyjets212]

If only if there were a way that you could re-format the thread into a guide. Like a FAQ guide so that any re-visited questions would be answered by different people's opinions. Then we would have a clean slate of a thread.

 

[JesiahTEG]

People could just message me on AIM and I'll answer their questions more thoroughly.

AIM: WSFL Cactuar

Expect me to bother you with tons of questions.

 

[Emblem Lord]

All people have to do is search the thread. But people are lazy or they create an account so they can make a thread about one question and then they never post again.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Up-air, reverse up-tilt. Avoids the shieldgrab while the end of the up-tilt hits opponent. It also needs to be spaced well.

The easiest way to actually hit up-airs IMO is with shielding opponents on platforms. The average Marth wants to leap toward a player on a platform with an f-air. That's why the average person will shield if Marth is in range to do this, however, you can use that as an advantage by jumping toward them and doing nothing. I find it better to full hop and not fast fall since it allows them to shield longer. At the last possible moment, you can probably land an up-air because:

1.) Their shield is low enough.
2.) The person attempts to jump out of shield.

Hard to explain it if you can't grasp the concept, but for those who can catch my drift.

Ok, say your uair hits their shield for some reason, your opponent's instincts will then be to let go of their shield and jump, wd off the platform, whatever. Would there be enough shield stun from the Uair in order to SHFFL the rest of the Uair into a Utilt, and have the Utilt hit them?

 

[Cactuar]

Ok, say your uair hits their shield for some reason, your opponent's instincts will then be to let go of their shield and jump, wd off the platform, whatever. Would there be enough shield stun from the Uair in order to SHFFL the rest of the Uair into a Utilt, and have the Utilt hit them?

Uairing the opponent while they are shielding above you is more to either hope to shield stab, or pressure them off the platform. If they jump after the uair hits the shield, it's very unlikely you will get an utilt in fast enough to actually hit them unless they are ridiculously slow.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Uairing the opponent while they are shielding above you is more to either hope to shield stab

What's shield stab?

second, I'm saying if you hit their shield from below with a uair, and shffl the rest of the attack, can you hit them with a utilt? Ok, besides the fact that if they jump out of it, you can't hit them. What if they try to WD off or run off? Is there enough shield stun to Utilt after?

 

[Emblem Lord]

JesiahTEG: How long have you been play smash competitively? Just curious.

Anyway, shield stab is when an attack hits a part of a characters body that the shield isn't covering.

 

[JesiahTEG]

lol idk why I've never heard of it.

Since sometime in January. But now that you asked, I have to ask why you asked lol I'm that kinda person, so if you wouldn't mind explaining the motive behind that question, it'd be highly appreciated.

 

[Cactuar]

He's probably asking because shield stab is a very widely known mechanism in the competitive scene.

WDing is jumping. Releasing your shield and going into a run takes less frames, but the actual time spent moving would allow you to hit them. Unfortunately, the amount of space that an utilt hits on most platforms isn't that large, so you are probably going to miss. If you are directly under, you can probably go from the uair to utilt vs their shield, but the end result would still be them jumping out after taking the hit to their shield. The whole purpose is still what I said originally in that you are hoping they tilt their shield wrong so you shield stab.

Also, the term shffl doesn't indicate any one part of an aerial attack, you don't shffl the rest of an attack, the entire movement is a shffl.

 

[Omni]

To add what Cactuar's saying, the u-air maneuver is just a mindgame to force the opponent into the air. A good Marth is always one step ahead so never assume your attack is going to land; better yet, it's better to assume the worse so you're always in position where you have the advantage.

So if the up-air is shielded, the opponent will:

1.) Do nothing. In that case, an up-tilt will shieldstab them.
2.) Release their shield, fall through platform and attempt to hit you. Again, you up-tilt or pivot grab, but you can see them trying to do this a mile away. Pretty silly if you ask me, but that kind of **** works on me.
3.) Jump out of shield to a safer position aka a higher platform. Ultimately, your opponent will be doing their best to get lower ground, but the 2nd best option against Marth is the highest ground where they can't be up-tilt combo'ed.

Idk, Marth's air game is all about tricking the person into jumping or using their double jump, then begining the aerial rapsies to edgeguard, f-smash, or both.

Marth's ground game is all about tricking the opponent into getting grabbed. That's about it.


*OMG 666 post. If you post before or after this post, you will be cursed for 7 years, a girl named Mindy will kill you in your sleep tonight, or your controller will break! To save yourself, repost this message 999 times before midnight! </so gay>*

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Not my controler. NOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[JesiahTEG]

Also, the term shffl doesn't indicate any one part of an aerial attack, you don't shffl the rest of an attack, the entire movement is a shffl.

ok, lemme rephrase that. FFL the rest of the attack.

Alright guys, thanks for clearing that up for me. This thread is very helpful.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I'm bored, so I guess I'll just post this link here.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=105433

Check it out. It's a good read.

 

[knightpraetor]

i was just going to post this randomly...that article is nice, it mentions shield stabbing a bit..anyways, if you really want to get the depth of shield play ..you should try smash 64..the use of directional shielding is far more necessary in smash 64 and you will get ***** if you do not angle your shield wisely and fast...because the opponent has zero lag from L-cancels and will be pressuring weak points on your shield.

Anyways, i don't know why i thought of that..but i just realiezd in melee it's much harder to work for shield stabs and not nearly as common..yesterday dedrick literally pressured me with 4 hits in a row in a fox ditto with my shield almost going to nothing..i could have probably grabbed after the third hit but i didn't realize he was going to do something that slow (Dsmash)..anyways...i rarely see much fancy use of shields at tourney level play..i think most of it has to do with the myriad defense options added by smash..especially the extra movement options...plus adding in lag to aerial attacks..but i suppose, if anyone has some cool vids of such, i would love to see them..i really should incorporate shield stabbing more into my melee game


another thing i wonder is who can get away with jabs after a shffl? i mean marth's sucks..but sheik, fox, falco, etc..is it worth using more jabs? atm i barely use them because it seems like i get punished..the jabs gets shielded and then i get grabbed..more often than not at least..i think with falcon if you do a gentleman after a shffl you can't get grabbed..the stun is enough to roll away..

btw, i loved the article..it was a fun read..i really want to learn to moonwalk...just for the fancy dash to moonwalk back grab...granted it won't happen often..but when it does it will be amazing..or maybe if they catch on and want to grab...i'll moonwalk back and raptor punch so the pullback animation gets me out of grab range sigh so many fun things to do...just because moonwalking isn't necessary doesn't mean it isn't fun;P

 

[MookieRah]

He's probably asking because shield stab is a very widely known mechanism in the competitive scene.

It's a common thing that is indeed well known, but I've yet to hear anyone refer to it as "shield stab." Just cause it may be regional jargon it doesn't necessarily mean that it is in the community's vernacular.