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Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!
- Thread starter Emblem Lord
- Start date
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LaserBust
Smash Journeyman
Lol, well mix it up, Shffl, waveland em, Double em up.
sagemoon
Smash Lord
Theres a lotta options you can do in this situation. If you hit the fair on the tip, you can do utilt and continue with a fair or uair depending on DI it works low to mid percent or you can preceed to do double fair (or fair-uair). You can also do f-smash. Against fastfallers i like to use a uair and just chain uairs.
If you dont get the tip, its very situational (depending on floaty, or fastfaller)
For floaty character you can follow up with a fair again or you can grab, jab grab, fsmash, utilt. Or at mid percents you can do nair.
For fastfalling characters you can do jab, jab grab, grab, sword dance, sometimes you can utilt (but thats depending on DI and percent)
Most of these dont work at higher percents but then again most combos do not. Just try a variety of things.
If you dont get the tip, its very situational (depending on floaty, or fastfaller)
For floaty character you can follow up with a fair again or you can grab, jab grab, fsmash, utilt. Or at mid percents you can do nair.
For fastfalling characters you can do jab, jab grab, grab, sword dance, sometimes you can utilt (but thats depending on DI and percent)
Most of these dont work at higher percents but then again most combos do not. Just try a variety of things.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
hey guys after some smashing this week i've came to some conclusions about marth.
1. Grab everything and anything that moves
2. Tip everything and anything that moves
You win.
1. Grab everything and anything that moves
2. Tip everything and anything that moves
You win.
Saph66
Smash Journeyman
I've been trying to do chain grabs with Marth, but I can't seem to do it. I'm grabbing them, then throwing forward, then wavedashing forward and trying to grab. But it seems they hit the ground right before I grab. Is this the correct way to chain grab? Am I doing it wrong cause my wavedash is too slow, also it feels kind of slow to execute the wavedash right after the throw. Can someone tell me how to do this better?
sagemoon
Smash Lord
And thats why you have only been playing marth for a week. But really dont spam this thread ppl either post if you need help or if you are helping other ppl.
Which character are you trying to chain grab. If you are chain grabbing a character forward you would do a dash, not a wavedash. Also you need to try and jumpcancel your grabs meaning you jump a couple frames right before your grab (i would suggest jumping with x or y and using z to grab )
Wavedashing after a throw is only helpful in situations such as throwing peach forward, wavedashing, then using a fair or dair. But its not effective for any chaingrabbing that i know of. (someone correct me if im wronge here)
spoonyd
Smash Apprentice
Sounds pretty right on to me boss. Keep at tip distance. If they get closer, just grab into a combo. Simple enough.
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
Don't spam this thread, Seriously, thats just being stupid.
Only post in this to put your 2 cents about a question or to put a question.
bumping it is the only time for mess like that.
Only post in this to put your 2 cents about a question or to put a question.
bumping it is the only time for mess like that.
Aesir
Smash Master
This is going to sound kinda pathetic but meh.
Okay lately, I can't seem to do anything to sheik at all, I know exactly what I need to do to ensure a victory but during my matches I make to many mistakes and fall for to many things. It doesn't matter how good the sheik is either, I lose. I sometimes play with this guy who kinda just started I **** his fox pretty relentlessly. He goes sheik and all of a sudden I look ****ing ********.
also same goes for luigi any advise? =\
Okay lately, I can't seem to do anything to sheik at all, I know exactly what I need to do to ensure a victory but during my matches I make to many mistakes and fall for to many things. It doesn't matter how good the sheik is either, I lose. I sometimes play with this guy who kinda just started I **** his fox pretty relentlessly. He goes sheik and all of a sudden I look ****ing ********.
also same goes for luigi any advise? =\
wexs883198215
Smash Cadet
How useful is the D-Air, and when would you use it? It seems like if you wanted to edgeguard, B-air would be preferred in most scenarios
Saph66
Smash Journeyman
Thx Sagemoon for the advice.
I can do the chain grab by throwing forward and dashing. However, I can only do this for like up to around 30%, this is a computer though, they stand up so I can dash/grab, but after like 30% they just fall the ground and I can't do it anymore. Will this happen to human players? Cause I'm not even sure if human players stand up when I throw them forward. This is with just normal dashing.
Oh, and about the jump grab thing, when I do it with jump (x) and then grab (z), I just do a forward air slash. How do I do this correctly? Any advice?
I can do the chain grab by throwing forward and dashing. However, I can only do this for like up to around 30%, this is a computer though, they stand up so I can dash/grab, but after like 30% they just fall the ground and I can't do it anymore. Will this happen to human players? Cause I'm not even sure if human players stand up when I throw them forward. This is with just normal dashing.
Oh, and about the jump grab thing, when I do it with jump (x) and then grab (z), I just do a forward air slash. How do I do this correctly? Any advice?
LaserBust
Smash Journeyman
@ Wex - The Dair ownz. Its IMO its .. nah, their both rly good edgeguards. The Dair is more sexier tho, harder to time, but better results. A sexy way to pull of the Dair spike is to ledgehop it, Dairing as soon as u hop up, spikin yur foe and putting you safely on the edge. Bair is good too, rly good for horizontal recovorys, or when you dont have enuf time to put yurself in position to Dair.I perfer Dair for the below ledge recoverys tho. Dair is rly only combod into by multiple Fairs. So yea, Ken it up I guess.
@ Saph - Humans can roll towards you or away from you, makin it a little more difficult to grab em. So it would be like Ufthrow > they bounce > then roll. When this happens you will have to pratice a technique called techchasing. Luckily for you tho, Marth ownz at techchasing.. and all that is pretty much with marth is just dashing in yur oppenents direction and predicting where they r gonna roll and how far. (I believe diff. characters roll diff. lengths)
Jump cancelled grab. You will probably not kno the diffrence when your first using it but yea.. your just pressing Z too late. You have to press ASAP. Not in sequence but yet in.. wuts the word.. simotanously? LOL i dunno.. just press Z sooner. X>Z. Pretty much press Z at the same time as X, just a bit after.
@ Saph - Humans can roll towards you or away from you, makin it a little more difficult to grab em. So it would be like Ufthrow > they bounce > then roll. When this happens you will have to pratice a technique called techchasing. Luckily for you tho, Marth ownz at techchasing.. and all that is pretty much with marth is just dashing in yur oppenents direction and predicting where they r gonna roll and how far. (I believe diff. characters roll diff. lengths)
Jump cancelled grab. You will probably not kno the diffrence when your first using it but yea.. your just pressing Z too late. You have to press ASAP. Not in sequence but yet in.. wuts the word.. simotanously? LOL i dunno.. just press Z sooner. X>Z. Pretty much press Z at the same time as X, just a bit after.
FrostByte
Smash Lord
The vs Sheik game is all about grabs. Look for grabs, but don't get grabbed. You could probably do this by dd camping or getting a grab off a fair. Keep her in the air and try not to let her back down. After you uthrow, you can intimidate with an empty jump, forcing sheik to use her second jump. When she does, use your second jump and fair combo.
As far as edgeguarding goes, you can bair her when she uses her jump/ right after she uses her up b. *Always* edgehog if you think sheik can make it back. Dtilt will not work unless sheik uses her up b too low.
Against Luigi, I learnt that he cannot fight you in the air. His long wavedash makes it easy to get into you and one grab to dair could do some damage. If you do grab him, do not let him touch the ground at all. Uthrow works nicely, though he will jump out of it. You just have to catch him and combo. Edgeguarding against him is a chore without the spike in the PAL version, so it works nicely in NTSC. If he goes below the stage, just edgehog, drop and jump to keep invincibility frames. He cannot get back unless he shoots a fireball at you. This is where your invincibiliyt comes in handy.
Saph66
Smash Journeyman
Aight, I got the jump cancelling done, and I'll remember the advice for chain grabbing human players.
I've now been trying to ledgehop Dair spike. Now I don't got any human players to practice this on, so only on comps. When I'm on the ldge and press down, then jump asap and then down A, I don't seem to be flying onto the stage safely, I just continue to fall straight down, why is this? I see videos flying onto the stage after the hit. BUT I haven't been spiking the comp all the time, but when I do, I still fly staight down and sometimes they don't die.
Any advice?
I've now been trying to ledgehop Dair spike. Now I don't got any human players to practice this on, so only on comps. When I'm on the ldge and press down, then jump asap and then down A, I don't seem to be flying onto the stage safely, I just continue to fall straight down, why is this? I see videos flying onto the stage after the hit. BUT I haven't been spiking the comp all the time, but when I do, I still fly staight down and sometimes they don't die.
Any advice?
LaserBust
Smash Journeyman
A Jc-grab is a standing grab while dashin basicly.. That may not sound usefull, but yea, a standing grab is shorter than a dash grab, so if you whiff your less open to punishment.
YAY SAPH!! Dair spike is the darkside. Ok try using the C stick, its alot eaiser to DI acordingly. Also press away instead of down if you r fastfalling.. but yea.. this is how its done
Down > Up > Rising Dair > Tilt yur analog up AND towards the stage. Matter of fact, when you 1st start doing it tilt yur analog during the entire move. This will put you on the stage.
EDIT - I win Frosty. =p
FrostByte
Smash Lord
Hold towards the ledge after you press A.
Saph66
Smash Journeyman
YOOO thx a lot LaserBust and FrostByte, I got this thing down, so sick. Now I gotta learn to time this technique. THx a lot!
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
Laserbust and frostbyte, good going with answering all the questions.
LaserBust
Smash Journeyman
Thank Thank you, no autographs.
PurpsTheTurtle
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 10, 2007
- Messages
- 4
when doing a ken combo you want your first fair to be a tipper then the rest non tipper correct?
wexs883198215
Smash Cadet
Thanks, I just tried it. I had a little more suicides than desired, but i think I'm getting better at it!
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
Spike for the win
To turtle, here, I wrote this earlier. and to tipper or not..its all abot their %.
Its not just a spike, d-air to f-smash works on most characters at mid percents if you l-cancel it properly. shuffled d-airs punish crouch cancelers badly. As he knows, the ken combo..he needs to learn when he should jump and d-air and when he should follow through with the momentum and d-air..either canceling his lag with the ledge or being high up enough he can regain himself.
To turtle, here, I wrote this earlier. and to tipper or not..its all abot their %.
Its not just a spike, d-air to f-smash works on most characters at mid percents if you l-cancel it properly. shuffled d-airs punish crouch cancelers badly. As he knows, the ken combo..he needs to learn when he should jump and d-air and when he should follow through with the momentum and d-air..either canceling his lag with the ledge or being high up enough he can regain himself.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
so this is more of a discussion than a post..i don't feel like making my own post atm.
So last weekend i went to my first tourney off school..placed 4th out of i forget..20ish? shrugs
anyways, the top player there pac! was way above my level but a hell of a lot of fun. i need work on my matchups with my five chars (fox, falco, sheik, marth, falcon) vs ganon..i really have no clue how to play against him..the 2nd place players ganon was rather painful..
as for 3rd place..i won the first match handily marth vs doc..he complimented my spacing...to be honest i was surprised at how much i had to work to win that...marth vs doc the opponent should be useless vs your superior range iwould think. Anyways, after that he pulled out his falcon..i'm not sure who i used vs him first match..i hate marth vs falcon on FD so i know i switched...i think i used fox
meh, i had a lot more trouble doing tech things at that tourney than others..so i think i just missed most of my waveshine comboes. two of the 4 machines there were lagging...very odd..we were playing on wiis but it was rather noticeable..i remember one match against a lower lvl player i just played around with dair to waveshine upsmash and could only get like 1 in 10...i can believe my nervousness was hurting my tech skill some..but still.
Anyways, 3rd match i lost too..played sheik vs falcon because i hear sheik holds the advantage...however, having never played the matchup from sheik's perspective i didn't really know what the hell i was doing i think..also..it seems sheik's ftilt can chain on falcon..in the future i should use that i think
anyways i'm not really worried particularly about how i placed...all of the people who beat me were my level or above..the top player being extremely noticeably above ( we played a lot of friendlies..i won one when he SDed)
i question whether i really learned much from the tourney..i really would have preferred playing weaker players who would sit down and explain more of what i needed to work on
anyways for the future i'm wondering what causes lag on machines...i had this same problem at my friend's house playing on his GC..i don't know if it's the TV or the game system or what. but it's annoying as hell and I would like to avoid it in the future.
also, my second question is...is it natural to forget how to combo when playing upper level players? i mean i would have to work so hard just to get an approach to work..then i'd slap myself for forgetting to tack on any extra damage..and yes they di well, but still, some things are guaranteed and i still miss them:\
oh last words...tiers are real..i feel bad...some of the low tier players there...i would say they would be better than me if they were playing better chars
So last weekend i went to my first tourney off school..placed 4th out of i forget..20ish? shrugs
anyways, the top player there pac! was way above my level but a hell of a lot of fun. i need work on my matchups with my five chars (fox, falco, sheik, marth, falcon) vs ganon..i really have no clue how to play against him..the 2nd place players ganon was rather painful..
as for 3rd place..i won the first match handily marth vs doc..he complimented my spacing...to be honest i was surprised at how much i had to work to win that...marth vs doc the opponent should be useless vs your superior range iwould think. Anyways, after that he pulled out his falcon..i'm not sure who i used vs him first match..i hate marth vs falcon on FD so i know i switched...i think i used fox
meh, i had a lot more trouble doing tech things at that tourney than others..so i think i just missed most of my waveshine comboes. two of the 4 machines there were lagging...very odd..we were playing on wiis but it was rather noticeable..i remember one match against a lower lvl player i just played around with dair to waveshine upsmash and could only get like 1 in 10...i can believe my nervousness was hurting my tech skill some..but still.
Anyways, 3rd match i lost too..played sheik vs falcon because i hear sheik holds the advantage...however, having never played the matchup from sheik's perspective i didn't really know what the hell i was doing i think..also..it seems sheik's ftilt can chain on falcon..in the future i should use that i think
anyways i'm not really worried particularly about how i placed...all of the people who beat me were my level or above..the top player being extremely noticeably above ( we played a lot of friendlies..i won one when he SDed)
i question whether i really learned much from the tourney..i really would have preferred playing weaker players who would sit down and explain more of what i needed to work on
anyways for the future i'm wondering what causes lag on machines...i had this same problem at my friend's house playing on his GC..i don't know if it's the TV or the game system or what. but it's annoying as hell and I would like to avoid it in the future.
also, my second question is...is it natural to forget how to combo when playing upper level players? i mean i would have to work so hard just to get an approach to work..then i'd slap myself for forgetting to tack on any extra damage..and yes they di well, but still, some things are guaranteed and i still miss them:\
oh last words...tiers are real..i feel bad...some of the low tier players there...i would say they would be better than me if they were playing better chars
FrostByte
Smash Lord
There is lag on HD tvs due to some downscaling garbage. It's a lot more noticable with the standard av cables when conpared to component cables, but it's still there.
It's not so much that you forget combos, it's just that you don't get the opportunity to do them as often. That is why you must know your matchups, know what you can to and when to do it.
The depth of Smash isn't in the tier list. It's based on more individual matchups, like how Falcon does well against Marth, and a character like Pikachu can do very well against fast fallers. IMO, there's a balance. More people choose Fox, therefore, more people know how to fight against Fox. The same cannot be said for low tiers.
It's not so much that you forget combos, it's just that you don't get the opportunity to do them as often. That is why you must know your matchups, know what you can to and when to do it.
The depth of Smash isn't in the tier list. It's based on more individual matchups, like how Falcon does well against Marth, and a character like Pikachu can do very well against fast fallers. IMO, there's a balance. More people choose Fox, therefore, more people know how to fight against Fox. The same cannot be said for low tiers.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Ok knight, as far as I know I Play with cubes and a wii and I have never had problems with lag on either. The only time I have played with lag are on plasma tv's. So I doubt it was a wii issue. This typically happens on Plasma's because the video feed and information sent (such as button inputs) are sent differently. Which causes the lag. I'm pretty sure you can tell if the TV has this problem by using the remote control (hitting a button has same lag I think).
And as for your third match, you shouldn't have switch to Sheik just because Sheik "holds the advantage". That IS tier talk, and if you don't know how to play the matchup with the character how is this an advantage to you at all heh. Doc isn't an easy matchup if your aggressive. You should never believe you should win just because your a higher tier it's the player that you should be concerned about. Higher tier characters just have more advantage to disadvantages, but it doesn't change how much skill you have.
As for your 2nd question. Yes it is. When playing better players you often get rushed and sloppy and surprised when you even get hits in. It's very hard to play well when they are constantly on top of you and barely miss any of their techs and tech chases. The only way you can get better against this is to play better players more often, to learn what works and what doesn't. Better players lead to faster learning for you imo.
The basic strategy for playing Ganon is to know that he has larger priority than pretty much anyone in the game (even Marth with his fair). And you never really want to trade hits with him. Ganon only really needs to get a good 3-4 hits on you to get you off the stage and edgeguarded. The only advantage Marth, etc. have over him is speed. His moves take time to come out and even l-canceled moves are laggy a bit. It's in these small openings that you have to fight him. Dash dance to grab alot (careful of Ganon's huge fair spacing) and try to get under him or try to aerial before his attacks go off. Playing defensive somewhat should help you here.
And as for your third match, you shouldn't have switch to Sheik just because Sheik "holds the advantage". That IS tier talk, and if you don't know how to play the matchup with the character how is this an advantage to you at all heh. Doc isn't an easy matchup if your aggressive. You should never believe you should win just because your a higher tier it's the player that you should be concerned about. Higher tier characters just have more advantage to disadvantages, but it doesn't change how much skill you have.
As for your 2nd question. Yes it is. When playing better players you often get rushed and sloppy and surprised when you even get hits in. It's very hard to play well when they are constantly on top of you and barely miss any of their techs and tech chases. The only way you can get better against this is to play better players more often, to learn what works and what doesn't. Better players lead to faster learning for you imo.
The basic strategy for playing Ganon is to know that he has larger priority than pretty much anyone in the game (even Marth with his fair). And you never really want to trade hits with him. Ganon only really needs to get a good 3-4 hits on you to get you off the stage and edgeguarded. The only advantage Marth, etc. have over him is speed. His moves take time to come out and even l-canceled moves are laggy a bit. It's in these small openings that you have to fight him. Dash dance to grab alot (careful of Ganon's huge fair spacing) and try to get under him or try to aerial before his attacks go off. Playing defensive somewhat should help you here.
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2005
- Messages
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- Scotch Plains, NJ
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Marth vs Ganon is basically even. But Marth has priority over him. It's all about the sword. Ganon comes close though.
Sheik > Falcon. Jabs, fairs, d-throws, and f-tilts = GG Falcon.
And the fact that Falcon has like, no priority at all. Shiek can jab him or f-tilt him out of virtually anything.
This post was worthless, I was just bored.
I wish more people would comment on my Marth vids. T_T
Sheik > Falcon. Jabs, fairs, d-throws, and f-tilts = GG Falcon.
And the fact that Falcon has like, no priority at all. Shiek can jab him or f-tilt him out of virtually anything.
This post was worthless, I was just bored.
I wish more people would comment on my Marth vids. T_T
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
heh, thanks for the advice everyone. anyways, you're right that i shouldn't have switched to sheik vs falcon having never played that matchup except as falcon..but as i do decently with sheik vs marth and space animals i sorta thought i could just learn the matchup as i went..probably a bad idea in retrospect
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Shouldn't we add M2K's Marth vids to the video archive?
Retroking2000
Smash Master
how to avoid the light shield edge guard .......... my friend keeps doing it on me please give me some advice on how to work around it (^.^)
wexs883198215
Smash Cadet
go around it (literally)
Randizzle
Smash Ace
approach from above or hit him with a fair to force him down early. If he's in a good position to light shield edge hog and you need to grab the edge in order to have any chance at recovery, then you probably won't get back on. Not much you can do about it.
whatwhatwhatwhatwhat
Smash Apprentice
So, are there any real uses for ledgehopping a f-air and grabbing the ledge right after? It's fun to do for annoyance/avoiding shieldgrabbing/stalling, but I can't think of anything else since you're unable to follow through with it.
I actually made a thread about it before I was told of this one by some high strung wannabe moderator. Apologies for my new user-ness.
I actually made a thread about it before I was told of this one by some high strung wannabe moderator. Apologies for my new user-ness.
Imperial Wraith
Smash Journeyman
High strung wanna be moderator? Hmm, seems like someones in a huff 
. TBD told you what you should have already done, its only your fault for not doing it.
But in responce to your question, it really isn't that good. Spotdodge -> Dtilt would hurt, and it would happen very often as using this trick is pretty **** obvious. Shieldgrabbing > That tech as well, which could lead to something very nasty.
. TBD told you what you should have already done, its only your fault for not doing it.But in responce to your question, it really isn't that good. Spotdodge -> Dtilt would hurt, and it would happen very often as using this trick is pretty **** obvious. Shieldgrabbing > That tech as well, which could lead to something very nasty.
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
making scrub threads is one thing but calling B-will, a amazingly cool mod whom which cares for us in the marth boards, a high strung wanabe moderator?
Go die now, whatwhatwhatwhatwhat please.
Either you be a good scrub or you don't need to be here.
Go die now, whatwhatwhatwhatwhat please.
Either you be a good scrub or you don't need to be here.
whatwhatwhatwhatwhat
Smash Apprentice
You're the high strung wannabe moderator I was talking about, TBD. Not B-Will, an actual moderator.
Seriously though, get over it. The thread is closed, I learned my lesson, whatever. I'm over it, but you're still antagonistic.
Seriously though, get over it. The thread is closed, I learned my lesson, whatever. I'm over it, but you're still antagonistic.
thebluedeath1000
Smash Champion
I'm not the one that was running my mouth over it to begin with.
And you can try to cover up for what you said, fine by me.
And you can try to cover up for what you said, fine by me.
whatwhatwhatwhatwhat
Smash Apprentice
Posted at 7:54.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=2492996#post2492996
B-Will closed it at 7:59.
Yes, I'm covering up for insulting a moderator who I saw close my thread while I was time traveling 5 minutes ahead in time.
About that running of mouthes thing: I call you a wannabe because of the high and mighty attitude you portrayed. I admit that it was unneeded, and that I only posted it because your post annoyed me. That's all.
If you really feel the need to respond, do it in PMs and not this thread.
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