Marth Match Up Thread. Being Redone Soon.

[trinityWOLF]

thanx for the post

 

[AlcyoNite]

This has to be one of the most informative threads on SWF. PERFECT reference material.

 

[flaco]

good job man nice help here

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Good, informative thread. Really interesting to read match-ups against my character.

 

[Europhoria]

Take DK to FD. He can't get down through an up-air juggle. On platform stages he can use those to get out, and they can help him continue his up-air chases.

 

[Requiem]

Liking this... very much ;o

 

[Tee ay eye]

This should be stickied IMO

 

[Havokbringer]

I think it hasn't been stickied for a couple of reasons.

2 of them being that its not complete yet and Arcnaturals advice isn't in this.(although it should be, and also should be filled with many more quotes to help people learn the match-up).

 

[Prince Of Fire]

Hey everyone,

Sorry that I have been lacking input on this lately. I've just taken notice that this has been stickied.

To whomever did that, Thanks!

This will be updated further.

-P. O. F.

 

[VGmasta]

If you John to a John you can John Combo!

By ArcNatural.

 

[ArcNatural]

No Johns, Everyone just ignore the previous post.

 

[Bob Money]

I'd say something that is very good to do vs space animals is learn how to tech chase with fsmash.Re-grabbing at low percents is nice but if you can get them off the stage at 30 percent fsmashing is the better option.
Example of how I use this.
Nair to walk up fsmash
Down tilt WD forward then walk to either jab reset to fsmash or just fsmash
Fsmash...walk up Fsmash
etc.
You can get used to it by wave dashing and walking to tech chase rather than dash dancing.

Spacing a tipper on a slow get up is amazing. It's well worth practicing because it gets FFalling characters off the stage at decently low percents.
As simple as it sounds, it's amazing and people freak out sometimes when they get hit by fsmashes twice in a row

 

[Teczer0]

I'd say something that is very good to do vs space animals is learn how to tech chase with fsmash.Re-grabbing at low percents is nice but if you can get them off the stage at 30 percent fsmashing is the better option.
Example of how I use this.
Nair to walk up fsmash
Down tilt WD forward then walk to either jab reset to fsmash or just fsmash
Fsmash...walk up Fsmash
etc.
You can get used to it by wave dashing and walking to tech chase rather than dash dancing.

Spacing a tipper on a slow get up is amazing. It's well worth practicing because it gets FFalling characters off the stage at decently low percents.
As simple as it sounds, it's amazing and people freak out sometimes when they get hit by fsmashes twice in a row

I actually have learned to punish obvious techs with fsmash ^_^.

I totally agree with this =D

I've been thinking of application of Marth's dair on the ground, to pop up for grabs or fair combos. (Or just stun for a free grab)

Any thoughts?

 

[Cactuar]

Fsmash...walk up Fsmash


As simple as it sounds, it's amazing and people freak out sometimes when they get hit by fsmashes twice in a row

This is important. People get discouraged if they feel they get hit with something "silly" or "stupid", and when people are discouraged they play worse. Making it easier for you to beat them.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I've been thinking of application of Marth's dair on the ground, to pop up for grabs or fair combos. (Or just stun for a free grab)

Any thoughts?[/COLOR]

It beats those pesky crouch canceling Samus's that's for sure.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

So umm...

why isn't this stickied again. It's a great thread even if its still not complete.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

so what say you of the marth vs fox match up?

 

[Teczer0]

It beats those pesky crouch canceling Samus's that's for sure.

I just jab, fair, dtilt, and fsmash in this match up.



Using dair is too creative for me

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Vs Ganon what stages would you suggest counter picking? FD and PS are the only two I feel Marth really shines on. Are there any others worth noting?

 

[P. O. F.]

I find that Dreamland is not so bad actually. Although Marth is insanely horrible here he does live longer here and this takes away Ganons ability to kill you insanely fast.

I basically look at it like this: "Well, alright....i suck here but I take ganons strength by how big Dreamland is and the size of the stage doesn't affect my edge guarding......"

With smaller stages you're room for error decreases.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242794

That is the Ganon vs. analysis of the match. Maybe taking a glance at the prespective of your opponent can help you guys understand the match more.

 

[goateeguy]

Several times in M2K vs. shizwiz (falco) i saw m2k up-throw and then instead of utilting he just tipper fsmashed one way or the other which, at the percentage it took to throw the falco into it usually killed.

here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJLDGiwUEsc *1:03*

at what percentage should i look for this? i understand it's not going to work every time (too much damage and it can DI, miss and the falco's right on top of you) but i'd really like to work this in.

 

[P. O. F.]

Several times in M2K vs. shizwiz (falco) i saw m2k up-throw and then instead of utilting he just tipper fsmashed one way or the other which, at the percentage it took to throw the falco into it usually killed.

here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJLDGiwUEsc *1:03*

at what percentage should i look for this? i understand it's not going to work every time (too much damage and it can DI, miss and the falco's right on top of you) but i'd really like to work this in.

Here, Shiz used slight DI forward which he probably should not have used at such a high percent. My guess is that he probably did not intend to do that. It looks like he was trying to get a combo or something going before m2k grabbed him and just DI'd it wrong. At such a high percent your better option is to simply just nair Falco. It's much more reliable and safe. I personally am not a fan at attempting a f smash via chain grab on Falco past mid 60's.

 

[goateeguy]

Here, Shiz used slight DI forward which he probably should not have used at such a high percent. My guess is that he probably did not intend to do that. It looks like he was trying to get a combo or something going before m2k grabbed him and just DI'd it wrong. At such a high percent your better option is to simply just nair Falco. It's much more reliable and safe. I personally am not a fan at attempting a f smash via chain grab on Falco past mid 60's.

alright, so maybe not as an option for kills, but 50s-60s are generally good times for uthrow->fsmash? it'll work on a computer even if it obviously has time to DI away, so i can't try this out until i get a friend to help me out. i don't have that so i decided to ask here

 

[Miggz]

This thread is full of win. Really loving the development.

 

[P. O. F.]

alright, so maybe not as an option for kills, but 50s-60s are generally good times for uthrow->fsmash? it'll work on a computer even if it obviously has time to DI away, so i can't try this out until i get a friend to help me out. i don't have that so i decided to ask here

Falco at LATER percents is much easier to fool around with than he is at earlier %'s IMO. Look for the F smash around 65-72% from the u throw. Mostly the mid 60's is most reliable for the tipper but depending on DI you might just get a regular f smash. Any higher than do uairs or nairs.

 

[goateeguy]

Falco at LATER percents is much easier to fool around with than he is at earlier %'s IMO. Look for the F smash around 65-72% from the u throw. Mostly the mid 60's is most reliable for the tipper but depending on DI you might just get a regular f smash. Any higher than do uairs or nairs.

ok, thanks

 

[ZoSo]

In FCD crews, M2K uthrow > tippers DSW at like, 76% before the uthrow and Shiz, even with great DI, dies to an edgehog. It's silly.

I don't understand that combo. It seems to start around mid-fifties for Fox and around mid-sixties for Falco (like Garrett said). It even works against Falcon sometimes. I think you can do it a little earlier if they DI left or right. If they don't DI, walk slightly left or right and you can still tipper them.

Uthrow > nair is good for getting them off the stage once they hit that percent where you can't do anything else from an uthrow. If they DI left or right at mid-high percents, center-hit fairs can still get them off the stage or maybe even lead to tippers (you always want to be looking for a tipper). If they reach that percent (mid-hundreds) where uthrow never leads to ANYTHING (why did you let them live that long), just try to get some tech chases with fthrow/dthrow until you have them near the edge. Bthrow if you think you can read their DI. Second hit of forward-B combo pops them up for an fsmash/grab/utilt. Just don't go crazy with it, cause they can CC the first hit pretty much indefinitely.

Quick comment on your analysis of Marth vs. Doc. Utilt is of course a solid move, but it's pretty laggy. If you're trying to keep him in the air, whiffing an utilt gives them an opportunity to get down (which happened several times in the match you linked). Best thing to do would probably be a timely shorthop, slowfall uair when you THINK you should be able to hit them. If they stalled with cape or air dodged or something (if you missed, in other words), fastfall and L-cancel to utilt ASAP. Basically, giving yourself multiple chances to hit them thereby covering more options. If they avoid the uair by stalling and air dodge through the utilt, you should be able to grab them before they can do anything. If they start doing fastfall dairs or something to throw off your timing, pivot grab/dash dance to grab. Or just fsmash their feet if you feel like being a ****. Only do this if they actually succeeded in throwing off your timing. Otherwise just resume the uair trap (lol Brawl).

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with M2K's analysis.

 

[1048576]

Two things:
1.) Have you seen Marth's full walking speed animation? He has his hands on his hips and he sashays.

2.) Even if you sweetspot, Doc's cape is gonna get you. When I'm too far out to use a dj to get back, The best advice is to up-B onto the stage, and DI for your life. I haven't tried stalling with fair to see if I can get him to cape prematurely, but I imagine it wouldn't work.

 

[ZoSo]

You can't stall with fair. Normally you would forward-B out of hitstun and save your jump when recovering. Against Doc you could try jumping out of hitstun and saving your forward-B's to throw off his timing, but then you're a sitting duck if he goes out for the bair.

Other than that, just try to space yourself from the edge as much as possible when up-B'ing. Doc is gay.

 

[Turazrok]

Which stage is fox gonna counterpick if i beat him first round?

 

[P. O. F.]

It depends on the Fox really.........

I'd bet on either Pokemon Stadium, Rainbow Cruise, Poke Floats or Dreamland.

Just get used to using Marth on different stages.

 

[Turazrok]

alright thanks. Tourney tomorrow :D

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I don't think most Foxes would go for Dreamland.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Some will take you to Yoshis.

 

[P. O. F.]

I don't think most Foxes would go for Dreamland.

Fox can camp Marth extremely well here. While Fox cannot KO Marth vertically...Marth cannot CG here and this is his least effective ledge stage minus FD of course which he ***** Fox there. In terms of neutral CP's its either Pokemon Stadium, Dreamland, and Yoshis. Most Marths nowadays usually strike Dreamland but in the CP situation a Marth could ban nearly anything VS a Fox. It really depends on the Fox player and how they play.

 

[GALE 14]

EYYYYY and what about MARIO ???

 

[P. O. F.]

Sorry, I forgot about Mario and Luigi. I actually have a lot of useful good advice/tips VS Luigi. I just recently literally learned how to make that match up easy as heck. lol.

 

[Hpnotiq]

Sorry, I forgot about Mario and Luigi. I actually have a lot of useful good advice/tips VS Luigi. I just recently literally learned how to make that match up easy as heck. lol.

mario's not that important, but i could use some tips against luigi

 

[P. O. F.]

Sorry, i've been busy these past few days. I will write up Luigi and Mario sometime next week!

I'll also talk to Arc and get some information from him as well.