Marth is 7th on the New Tier List

[Remzi]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236407

In a tier below the rest of the crew...... grrrrr

Falco, Wario, and Diddy should be down there with him

And why is Falco still the 4th best?

Oh well, it's not bad I guess.

*Edit: To clarify, I don't think Marth is better than Wario, Diddy, and Falco (maybe), I think that they should be in the same tier as him, but above him.

 

[Mazaloth]

Why is Wario after us?
And I still thnk that we should at least be higher then Falco...
We need to get back to S-tier.

 

[Lord Chair]

Marth doesn't get as much new tips'n'tricks as Falco.

Falco has better matchups in S tier.

Falco can camp.

Those 3 things alone make him place higher.

 

[Teran]

And why is Falco still the 4th best?

He's not still 4th best, he used to be 3rd.
Also, because he has good top tier matchups.
Another fact is that he's better than a lot of characters in the game it seems, Marth included.

 

[takeurlife2]

wario is definately better than marth. Maybe not 3rd in the game, but definately above marth.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

falco is better than marth.. and WTF @ marth being better than diddy? LMAO!


just stop

 

[Turbo Ether]

People sleep on Falco like crazy. It's absurd. He's definitely top 5.

 

[Steel]

Those three chars are definitely better than Marth. However, Dedede I REALLY feel is not S tier quality. They should move him down a spot, if not one below Marth.

But whatever, not much to discuss. We all knew Marth would stay 6th or 7th, that won't be changing ever.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I agree with DDD not being S tier quality. Marth and DDD are comparable. Marth has less matchups in which he gets "*****", however DDD "*****" more characters. With DDD's weight, superior recovery, superior gimping, excessively damaging punishment and stage counterpicking shenanigans, I give him the nod, slightly.

 

[Krackshot Kroc]

I think Marth is actually good where he is, don't get me wrong I think he's a great character but I don't really see him moving up

 

[Freezewish]

Falco, Wario, and Diddy should ... A little late for April Fools jokes Bengals.

 

[Tari]

I think Marth is actually good where he is, don't get me wrong I think he's a great character but I don't really see him moving up

Anyone care to explain why Marth is 7th?

I've never really bothered with this tier list thing.. I simply just played so I don't exactly get all this stuff.

 

[VietGeek]

Marth is 7th because tiers should represent the current metagame. At least that's what these tiers do.

The metagame is currently centered around Meta Knight - to a lesser extent Snake, and you would notice all the characters in S tier are not only good characters, but all have arguably "even" match-ups with Meta Knight, and Dedede is there perhaps because he makes other characters like DK obsolete, and soft counters Snake.

Players, both top players and all those beneath, have picked up any of these S tiers, perhaps even MK himself, to counter the inevitable match-up as well as select an excellent character with a good chance of getting you far into a tournament.

Overcentralization? Perhaps, perhaps not. But as you can see, Marth does not quite counter either of the top 2, thus his placement is lower as he has less of an effect on the metagame.

 

[Tari]

Marth is 7th because tiers should represent the current metagame. At least that's what these tiers do.

The metagame is currently centered around Meta Knight - to a lesser extent Snake, and you would notice all the characters in S tier are not only good characters, but all have arguably "even" match-ups with Meta Knight, and Dedede is there perhaps because he makes other characters like DK obsolete, and soft counters Snake.

Players, both top players and all those beneath, have picked up any of these S tiers, perhaps even MK himself, to counter the inevitable match-up as well as select an excellent character with a good chance of getting you far into a tournament.

Overcentralization? Perhaps, perhaps not. But as you can see, Marth does not quite counter either of the top 2, thus his placement is lower as he has less of an effect on the metagame.

So basically.. if we find ways to "even" the match-up between Marth and Metaknight (among the other S-Tiers) we can essentially move Marth up the tier list?

 

[Inui]

Marth is still too high. Olimar and the Ice Climbers are better than him, and possibly Game and Watch (way way way better in doubles at least).

 

[Browny]

^^^
this man, he knows

 

[Turbo Ether]

Marth is still too high. Olimar and the Ice Climbers are better than him, and possibly Game and Watch (way way way better in doubles at least).

This is pretty much what I think. I don't know if G&W is better than Marth in singles, but I do think he's better in doubles.

 

[Albert.]

Marth is still too high. Olimar and the Ice Climbers are better than him, and possibly Game and Watch (way way way better in doubles at least).

Uh Doesn't Marth win all of those matches? Or go even?

BTW LOL at Inui being "bottom tier character"

 

[BacklashMarth]

ICs above olimar plz? I mean they hold their own against a LOT of characters but u just have to be uber skilled to do so. I think the ice climbers recovery is superior to olimars so that coupled with the fact that they can take on MK (ggs lain) sets them above the spaceman. But this is in the marth boards so i should comment on marth.

Um...he stayed...to be expected. Idrc about where he gets put on a list so much as him making his annoying matchups less annoying. Im not sure wario shoulda been moved up so far but i assume they had a good reason for doing so (or claim to). I still kinda wish some kind of explanation for character movements would be released along with the list (would make for a better discussion, but that would require more work on thier part).

 

[TreK]

*insert sadface here*
-1...
mine is low tier anyway xD

 

[Punishment Divine]

I don't care lol

 

[lolgrec]

i'm with BassCleft, lolz at Inui its true though what BassCleft said >_> at the match-up thread in the marth boards, no way ICs and Oli are better than marth

 

[legion598]

how much higher would wario be if grab releases didnt exist 0_0

 

[cman]

how much higher would wario be if grab releases didnt exist 0_0

Pretty sure he would stay the same actually. They just don't affect him too much. He still wouldn't be better than snake.

 

[Remzi]

Way to jump to conclusions guys, when I say "Down there with him" I mean still above him but in the same tier.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Who cares?

Does it really matter?

Just go do better and raise his placing, he stayed in essentially the same place, it isn't a big deal.

Marth has pretty much always been inviable anyway if you look at the tourney seen as a whole.


EDIT: Inui's just mad that he's bottom tier don't listen to him.
worse than ganon LOL fail.

 

[Emblem Lord]

So basically.. if we find ways to "even" the match-up between Marth and Metaknight (among the other S-Tiers) we can essentially move Marth up the tier list?

This is the **** that makes coming back to SWF worthwhile.

Funniest **** I ever read in my life.

 

[feardragon64]

This is the **** that makes coming back to SWF worthwhile.

Funniest **** I ever read in my life.

We were all optimistic at some point. Let him enjoy it before he dies inside when he finally realizes how futile it is. =\

 

[VietGeek]

We were all optimistic at some point. Let him enjoy it before he dies inside when he finally realizes how futile it is. =\

This is why the Marth boards deliver. Everyone just has a great sense of humor.

 

[Asimio]

So what i've read from this thread is that Falco, Diddy and Wario are better than Marth.

he metagame is currently centered around Meta Knight - to a lesser extent Snake,

I also understand Viet's concept, but what I don't get is that Marth's match-ups against them give him an advantage right? So even if MK ***** Marth, isn't it still good for Marth players that they have an advantage over these S-tier characters? Or are the match-up ratio's off?

EL = Meanie. We all love you, stop jabbing us.

 

[feardragon64]

We were all optimistic at some point except that emo ******* viet. Let him enjoy it before he dies inside when he finally realizes how futile it is. =\

This is why the Marth boards deliver. Everyone just has a great sense of humor.

Sorry. My mistake. Fixed.

 

[VietGeek]

I also understand Viet's concept, but what I don't get is that Marth's match-ups against them give him an advantage right? So even if MK ***** Marth, isn't it still good for Marth players that they have an advantage over these S-tier characters? Or are the match-up ratio's off?

Well, all the S tiers (in question) aren't exactly hard countered by Marth. In fact most of them can give Marth a run for his money. In no way are any of those S tier match-ups a walk in the park, even if Marth has a statistical advantage.

And then of course, even if Marth beats them out...it doesn't matter because guess what is going to be the most likely factor in stopping Marth dead in his tracks, MK, right? What are those characters that Marth beat have that Marth doesn't have? A supposedly even match-up.

And even if you do beat them, the counterpick most of the time will be Meta Knight. A Falco/MK player of the same skill level will more often than not have an easier time than a Marth/MK player in tournament. There are some instances where this isn't true, but it's a makeshift example to try to convey my point. I do see the flaw, especially if both were to fight a Falco player, then usually the Marth/MK player would have somewhat an easier time.

But that's ranting.

It's simply not feasible to go Marth all tourney. And these tier include tournament placings, not match-ups alone. Due to this, Marth is ranked lower even though he is a supposedly better character than Diddy, Falco, D3, and Wario, because they have something to deal with MK. So they will more likely get into top 8, thus placing and affecting their tier placements.

Or something like that. The Marth regs know I suck at explaining things...among other things.

Emblem Lord thinks of us as comedians...isn't that enough to show his gratitude?

The lot of us still playing Smash Brothers competitively...hilarious.

 

[Pr0phetic]

You guys depress me. Definitely will not give into the meta-mentality.

*Trains Marth*

 

[∫unk]

until you're considered a good marth it really isn't even the problem... unless maybe you don't want to start with marth as your main because you see that the end result isn't amazing

w/e mike was getting ***** for a long time stuck with it and ascended into **** status if i was doing as well as the best marths i'd be content

 

[Turbo Ether]

This is the **** that makes coming back to SWF worthwhile.

Funniest **** I ever read in my life.

I had a good time earlier today yelling at people for being mad hyped or mad emo over the tier list. You had some character boards literally breaking bread, celebrating, and patting themselves on the back, over their character moving up. Other character boards were having group therapy, trying to consul eachother, and delude themselves into believing their character isn't as bad as everyone thinks. Funny day.

 

[Emblem Lord]

This is what kills me about metagame based tier lists.

Makes you think your character is getting better or getting worse or blah blah.

Dudes actually think if their character moves up it means the character is good.

It is truly hilarious and extremely sad at the same time.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Inui, be glad you're bottom tire! Now you can experience the epic bottom spot like CF did! As in, lots of people will pick you up as a secondary/fun character, simply cus they like to play as the worst character XD.

 

[Tari]

This is the **** that makes coming back to SWF worthwhile.

Funniest **** I ever read in my life.

Glad I could make you laugh.

We were all optimistic at some point. Let him enjoy it before he dies inside when he finally realizes how futile it is. =\

Oh. Don't get me wrong, I know how futile it is. Just trying to give everyone that small glimpse of hope.

/shrug.

Main thing is that I guess I'm just too stubborn to believe that there's nothing Marth can do against MK.

 

[BarDulL]

inui is just being silly. marth mains just need to step it up more, that's all there is to it.

marth is a great character, definitely up there and does well vs. several top tier characters...but recently no one has been doing exceptionally well with marth and of course the individuals behind the tier list are going to rate him according to the evidence presented to them...and as far as i know, marth hasn't won any significant tournaments, so obviously that isn't helping marth's placement much. there isn't much evidence supporting a higher placement for marth, so obviously more people need to step it up and "show them that evidence" to put marth where he deserves to be.

...yea

 

[Pr0phetic]

inui is just being silly. marth mains just need to step it up more, that's all there is to it.

marth is a great character, definitely up there and does well vs. several top tier characters...but recently no one has been doing exceptionally well with marth and of course the individuals behind the tier list are going to rate him according to the evidence presented to them...and as far as i know, marth hasn't won any significant tournaments, so obviously that isn't helping marth's placement much. there isn't much evidence supporting a higher placement for marth, so obviously more people need to step it up and "show that evidence," get what i'm saying? step it up, marth boards.

^ This, this, this. I've been saying this for quite some time now...