Marth Counters?

[Emblem Lord]

Shiek= best in the game?

Do you guys even know who Falco is?

 

[JBM falcon08]

^ yeah seriously, falco is the best everyone knows that, then maybe sheik or marth or fox, they all tie.

 

[Tope]

I think Fox is the best... slightly

 

[StripesOrBars]

LOL @ Topesies. Fox has the potential to be the best, but potential is nothing if no one can be "that" good(not even M2K).

Sheik goes basically even with space animals and she beats Marth. Shiek is teh best.

It seems to me that its only Peach and, ESPECIALLY Shiek mains who think fox is best.

Sheik mains will go to great lengths to let people "know" Fox is top and that Fox counters the **** out of Shiek. Its funny too because he's like the only character where Shiek really has to press another button besides A a couple times to win the match. Just becuase she really can't do anything from a downthrow, they think Fox is a counter.

Peach I can understand, but Shiek mains just need to quit johning.

It's either Falco or Shiek at top IMO. with marth then fox coming in a close 3rd and 4th.

 

[alcheato]

Sheik. Fair all day.

 

[Tope]

Sheik vs Fox is my favorite match up to play as sheik. I don't think fox counters sheik at all, although I will say he has a slight advantage.

Fox slightly loses to Marth, and Falco.

Falco doesn't slightly lose to anyone, although has a much tougher time with some of the lower tiered characters then fox does. Pichu, Mewtwo, Mario, Doc, CF, Peach, Ice Climbers, just to name a few.

Sheik slightly loses to Fox and Falco, and greatly loses to icies. However she mostly destroyes the lower tiered characters, except for the occasional DK or what have you.

 

[StripesOrBars]

One **** up from fox and falco, and that's one less stock. 95% of the characters have 0 to death combos on them.

And lol @ Pichu and Mew2.

And Shiek can chain grab DK from 0 to 1000000. But I still say its a pretty even matchup.

 

[Tope]

WTF Sheik can't CG DK.

He bounces too weird to do straight Dthrow regrab dthrow.

I think 1 mess up = loss of stock is a bit of an overstatement.
We're not dealing with ICies Infinite here.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Yea Shiek can definitely CG DK bro.

 

[cablepuff]

people explain to me why we are talking about sheik in marth counters thread?

so back on topic... falco counters marth.

 

[NJzFinest]

so back on topic... falco counters marth.

Counter = one sided matchup.

Falco vs Marth is in no way a one sided matchup for Falco. Marth definately stands a chance.

 

[StripesOrBars]

It's even, marth might have a small advantage infact.

Then again so could falco. . . .

 

[JBM falcon08]

i'd say fox and marth are equal, but falco has a VERY very slim advantage over marth, his only downfall is his recovery, but he still ***** marth's so its all even as far as recovery goes.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth ***** Falco on recovery and with CG. Platforms = easy tippers and utilts as well.

Also Falco has a very hard time DIing out of Marth's combos if he even can DI out of them. Usually he can't. Marth can tech out of Falco's combos and DI out of them more easily. But shine bull**** and laser bull**** even out the playing field.

Overall I would call it even, and very very stage dependent.

 

[ThE_BaTmAn]

I have to say falco vs marth is just about even, maybe a slight advantage to falco. but heres the thing marths grab vs shine is what it comes down to I think. marth getting grab combos to death is key but shine can just will punish you for being to graby let alone wiff a grab. falco when played flawlessly cant be beat imo. marth has to worrie about so much tippers, spacing as well as other things. when it comes down to it falco just has to much going for him for marth to keep up in the long run

 

[Emblem Lord]

I would say it's so close that the advantage Falco has is negligible.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Falco has the advantage over Marth slightly. He also has a slight advantage over Shiek and Fox too. SLIGHT.

Falco might as well be considered even with all of them though. Which is why he's the 2nd best after Shiek.

Shiek>Marth

That's the only character that comes close to a counter. Fox and Falco shouldn't even be considered.

 

[SynikaL]

Pete, you're all over the fvcking place.


-Syn

 

[StripesOrBars]

Duh, it's not like I have a job, when are we gonna smash?

I'm movin back home Thursday.

 

[SynikaL]

Whenever you call me and ask.

Don't know where you are, but I ain't doin' ish right now.


-Syn

 

[StripesOrBars]

Nah, can't right now, but uh. . . . . . . yeah, I'll call ya bro.

 

[Emblem Lord]

The reason why I say Falco is the best is simply because of the bull**** he can do. To date since the SHL technique has been discovered there is no sure fire method of getting around them all the time. It's one of the most annoying and effective tactics in the game. That with shine combos, 1337 edge guarding skills, awesome shuffle game, and more makes Falco number one.

All IMO of course.

On a side note: People hate on Marth too much for no reason. His brokenness is overhyped IMO. People come down on him and act like the other top 5 don't even exist. Marth is good, but when I compare him to the other top 5 he seems a little lacking. Even compared to Peach due to her float cancelling. Marth doesn't some broken tactic that he can completely fall back on when he is scared. That's why I think Shiek and Space animals really surpass him. That and out of all the top 5 he is by far the laggiest. But all of the top 5 have little lag overall so it's not THAT big of a deal, but you do notice it. And his attacks generally have the longest start up time.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I think that Shiek and Fox are the hardest match ups for Marth.
Shiek can easily ruin Marth's recovery with needles and that chainthrow/chaining tilts to fair really screws him over.
Fox has his shinespike for his edgeguarding. Yes you can try to fair him but he'll be in range to shinespike you by the time your fair comes out. He's also got the up throw to uair, the dreaded up smash, and even worse the waveshine infinite completed with an up smash. You've just got chain throwing but any good fox player will make sure to land benind you after his ariels.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Its not easy to waveshine upsmash Marth. Infact the Marth would have to be pretty bad to let it happen.

Waveshine to grab is possible though.

 

[Mr.C]

it is hard to dair waveshine upsmash marth

but u can dair waveshine dair waveshine grab really easy

all in all

fox - falco - sheik > marth

they are not counters but they have an advantage.

 

[StripesOrBars]

No Marth Definitely is even with Fox. Or Marth may have a small advantage.

 

[Aesir]

Marth doesn't have the advantage he mostly goes even with Fox, if its on FD I think he has the advantage stages with low ceilings I'd go with fox.

 

[NJzFinest]

Marth vs Fox on Yoshi Island isn't fair
*remembers back when that was a commonly used stage*

 

[StripesOrBars]

Out of the 6 randoms

Marth wins on:

FD
BattleField
Yoshi Story
FoD

Fox wins on:


Is even on:

DreamLand 64
Poke'Stadium

 

[JBM falcon08]

Marth vs Fox is definetly a very close matchup, but if its in anyones favor its foxes. sure marth has cts, but fox has uairs chained together that can hurt pretty bad. i'd say 5-4 fox.

it is not even on pks, its in fox's favor, also thats why we have cps, overall the level there are fox has many more levels to choose from than marth does. corneria, peaches castle, green greens, onett.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Peach's Castle is banned and so is Onett.

Chain Grab > Upthrow upairs.

All Marth needs is one grab. Thow up and chain grab, or throw onto platform for UpTilt and/or tip.

Marth can smash DI Fox Uairs.

 

[Aesir]

Good luck grabbing a GOOD fox.

 

[JBM falcon08]

^ haha, exactly. besides lets base it on others personal experiences. kdj vs Ken?

 

[Mr.C]

fox ***** platfrom stages ask any "pro" player, marth barely has a chance on yoshis.

marth cant even grab a good fox lol... gl chaingrabbing on uhh the one level fox can be cg'd on? fd... which he still ***** cause of lasers,easy shine, upsmash, uair combos.

also like to add marths dtilt or fsmash cant even hit a sweet spoted firefox
you can even ask m2k. Fox has a pretty easy time getting back onto the stage vs marth and his edge guarding if done correct while if marth is off the stage he has to sweet spot
because of his lag = shield edgeguard = gg

 

[Tope]

Actually Mew2King claims that Fox vs Marth is the most even match in the game.

 

[Mr.C]

"also like to add marths dtilt or fsmash cant even hit a sweet spoted firefox
you can even ask m2k."

i didnt say anything about what m2k thinks about this matchup.

 

[SynikaL]

^ What a dumb response. You just cited M2K to support your argument about Marth's edgeguard vs Fox. That's a valid point of discussion about the matchup, don't ya think?


And Dair takes care of that sweetspot nonsense unless the Fox isn't coming from below.


-Syn

 

[Darkfalchion0813]

between marth and fox, its fairly even, but slightly in marths advantage. edge guarding fox is a piece of cake, fair off the stage if he firefoxes above the stage, swip or dtilt if he illusions back to the stage, and backwards spike through the stage if hes fire foxing below the stage. if u backwards spike him, sure he can tech the wall from it, but he'll be too low to illusion back to the stage, so he'll have no choice but to fire fox back, which can lead to a fsmash generally, or another spike.

grabbing a pro fox isnt that tough, cc grab ***** the **** outta fox

 

[Emblem Lord]

This match up even. EVEN I SAY!!!!!

Marth is gay.

Fox is gay.

EVEN! Nuff said.

 

[dcx1287]

^ What a dumb response. You just cited M2K to support your argument about Marth's edgeguard vs Fox. That's a valid point of discussion about the matchup, don't ya think?

Mr. C cited M2K to support his assertion that "marths dtilt or fsmash cant even hit a sweet spoted firefox."

Perhaps he cited M2K because he felt people might question the validity of that statement.

It's perfectly reasonable for M2K to think fox vs marth is even yet still support that said assertion at the same time.

Mr. C never used M2K to support his own idea that the matchup is uneven. He only used M2K to support an assertion that Mr. C felt people might question.

Does this assertion support Mr. C's belief on the matchup? Yes. Does the fact that Mr. C cited M2K as evidence for the validity of that assertion mean Mr. C was using M2K to support his idea on the entire matchup? No.

Responding with "What a dumb response" makes you look kind of lame. If I were you, I would probably try to not respond like that in the future. But of course, it's up to you.