Sheik only > Marth if the Marth has no clue what he's doing
I also said that it takes a great deal of mindgames and awareness... Maybe you should work on that?
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Marth Counters?
- Thread starter MitchBerryCrunch
- Start date
I also said that it takes a great deal of mindgames and awareness... Maybe you should work on that?
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
thats pretty good observation smash god, i'd have to say i agree somewhat with everything you said, but i'd still have to say sheik has the slight advantage. What you say is true about fox and falco though.
flaco
The Terminator
thanks man thats what I just said,that marth owns them all is a shame that I own him he doesn't know how to escape marth DI dependents combo lolI saw lots of argument in this thread so I decided to contribute to it
Some Fox players really know how to destroy Marth inside out. Some Marths know how to slice right through Fox's head.
Fox's Uair/Usmash/Uthrow combos along with shines and grab and SHFFLed Nairs and Bairs etc. can really pin Marth down. BUT, Marth can chainthrow Fox, which counts for a lot, into an Utilt, into another Uthrow, into Utilt to continue or to Fsmash to edgeguard. Fsmash/Utilt/Dtilt/Ken Combos/Fair Combos can throw Fox into a corner.
Fox can either = Marth or Marth can > Fox or Fox can > Marth..
Falco can really undermine Marth's defenses with SHL spam and Nair and pillaring. Marth has some nice combos too and can take stocks without taking damage, but Falco is truly on the upperhand in this matchup.
Marth has no projectiles, so is stuck jumping and shielding and spot dodging the SHL spam. Falco will SHL spam to Nair/Dair to pillar/JC grab/etc. and combo Marth to oblivion. Marth can chainthrow Falco to Utilt to grab/Fsmash etc. to kill without taking damage, but its hard. If the Falco really knows how to SHL and pillar and use aerials/ground moves effectively, the Marth is pwnd.
Falco > Marth
Sheik can outpriotize and attack faster than Marth. has a horizontal trajectory, and after going off the side and downward, Marth can really get back up unless he has a jump. Marth can combo Sheik just as well with Fair/Uair/Utilt/Uthrow/Fsmash/Bair combos and edgehog her.
Sheik has her needles to stop Marth's recovery. Marth can combo her with aerials easily while she is pushed around helplessly. To do this you must have good mindgames and awareness to see her motions, if you become to obvious then you will be caught in Sheik's trap. Sheik has tilt combos and Dsmash and chainthrow. Marth can get Sheik with Dtilt edgeguard or can Bair off the stage and interrupt aerials combos with your disjointed hitbox. This matchup could be either very defensive or very offensive.
Sheik = Marth
Fox vs Marth - can go either way, depends on the players and his or her styles
Falco vs Marth - Falco > Marth
SheiK vs Marth - Sheik = Marth
WhiteOblv
Smash Ace
sheik=marth.........uh no. Marth falls to easily into the slap from here tilts an crap, it is easy to combo sheik yes but i believe sheik has the upper hand in this match-up.
As for marth ditto's, there a pain in the *** EVERYONE knows that, but even tho they are a pain in the *** the better player will win most of the time if not all the time.
As for marth ditto's, there a pain in the *** EVERYONE knows that, but even tho they are a pain in the *** the better player will win most of the time if not all the time.
not bragging or anything but im top 5-6 in tx
i play fastliketree every now and again.
he got 5th at mlg dallas 2nd in teams blahblah blah
i can shffl fast, lcancel etcetc i can even jc shine shields 2-3 times and keep up dair shines
but vs flt every nair and dair i tried he would upsmash out of shield
it almost makes playing falco vs him pointless
lol
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
LOL let's listen to someone who mains luigi on who counters marth.
Shiek>>>>Marth
Shiek>>>>Marth
Mr. C: I did not know Fox could pull that off so fast; it would seem the shine would always come out a little bit faster. Well, I guess you learn new things every day 
flaco
The Terminator
Well same here not bragging but am top 2 second on springfield Mass right next to my brother y2kbakura.
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
well, not to sound arrogant or anything, but i'm good at this game.
I main Marth equally with Luigi FYI... I'm just more well known for Luigi because Luigi players are rare. My Marth and Luigi are about equal in terms of skill. But then again, what do I know about my own main characters that you don't? ...Research next time before you make assumptions.
And I heard some people say arth falls easily into Sheik slap and tilts... Marth is just being controlled by you. Its not Marth's fault.. DI my friends DI out of her combos. You also have higher priority and a disjointed hitbox and range. Sheik has priority and speed. If you are smart with mindgames you can outthink her speed and she's just left with priority. You have that as well as other! Sheik = Marth IMO
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Shiek has the advantage. Just cuz 1 marth player(who has falco and luigi in his sig, and luigi in his avatar) thinks its even doesnt change anything.
WTF do u mean DI out of her comboes? YOU CANT. If you DI forwad=Slap/DI back+Nuetral/Bair/DI up= Upair. Thats why Shiek>Marth.
And STFU with this BS mindgame crap. Unless the skill is Marth>Shiek, then shiek will most likely always win unless the shiek is complete garbage.
Mr. C:Shine is faster than upsmash, sorry.
WTF do u mean DI out of her comboes? YOU CANT. If you DI forwad=Slap/DI back+Nuetral/Bair/DI up= Upair. Thats why Shiek>Marth.
And STFU with this BS mindgame crap. Unless the skill is Marth>Shiek, then shiek will most likely always win unless the shiek is complete garbage.
Mr. C:Shine is faster than upsmash, sorry.
AIDS
Smash Lord
in the end no one counters marth, ur best hope is shiek
In my sig it is supposed to show one of my mains and one secondary. Once again, stop making assumptions. I have a Luigi avatar because Marth ones are common and Luigi ones are only seen on the Luigi boards. I play some Falco, Fox, Sheik, and Samus. I main Luigi and Marth. I can put up a fight with almost all characters (I think not Mewtwo). I have a pretty good knowledge of who > who. Sheik can combo Marth. Marth can combo Sheik. Sheik has speed, easy combos, and priority. Marth has priority, a disjointed hitbox, and range. Minus priority and you have - Speed/Combos vs Disjointed Hitbox/Range. If the Marth and Sheik are on teh same level of skill. Marth has combos as well, Sheik just has them come easier. Marth has tippers. Sheik has a slap. Marth can neutralize Sheik's approaches with the disjointed hitbox. Sheik can doge Marth's approaches with speed. They match priority in many ways. Sheik's (arguably) best smash, Dsmash, has equal priority with Marth's (arguably) best smash, Fsmash. My bro and I just played today, My Sheik vs his Marth. My dsmash matched his Fsmash... three times. Marth can space his way from Sheik with WD and Jabs/tilts. Sheik can hit Marth with her needles from a distance. Sheik can cg Marth a bit. Marth can Uthrow to Uair/Utilt combos on Sheik. Sheik has a medium range recovery that goes in all directions. Marth has a far range vertical recovery. Sheik's UpB cannot be interrupted with its max priority (defensive). Marth's UpB can be reversed for a horizontal trajectory hit on the opponent while dodging at the same time (offensive). Sheik's Fair is a great killer move but you cannot combo with it, only finish. Marth's Fair is a great combo move but you cannot kill well with it. Sheik's Dair is a launcher to start combos. Marth's Dair is a spike, to finish combos. Marth's Bair can be used for combos or just to knock the opponent off the stage. Sheik's Bair can also be used for combos or just to knock the opponent off the stage. Marth's Uair has good range and priority and can be used for juggling more than kills. Sheik's Uair has good speed and priority and can be used best for kills and a bit of juggling. Marth's Dtilt has good range, priority, goes under shields, and edgeguard. Sheik's Dtilt has good range and is a launcher to start combos or to and Fair. Marth's Ftilt can be used for kills or for defensive purposes with its amazing range and priority. Sheik's Ftilt can be used to launch the opponent into an aerial combo with its speed. Marth's Utilt can be used for kills or juggling or combo starting with its great upward range and priority. Sheik's Utilt can launch if sweetspotted or can rack up damage with its multiple weaker hits. Sheik has a quick wavedash that can be used for spacing or for dodging. Marth also has a quick wavedash with a farther range for spacing tips or in general. Both can be used for a quick edgehog.
I believe none of the above mentions mindgames. Just technical skill and comparison of moves. Sorry for long post.
If u ever play flt which is one of the best players in america and u get upsmashed out of shield
7/10 times u try to dair/nair shine
we can talk.
Whoa. Did Mr. C just change his avatar?
Mr. C
Just because you're terrible, please don't go assuming everyone else is.
Falco can L-cancel shine faster than fox can usmash out of shield.
Either you're missing the l-cancel or you're just ********.
Just because you're terrible, please don't go assuming everyone else is.
Falco can L-cancel shine faster than fox can usmash out of shield.
Either you're missing the l-cancel or you're just ********.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Eh, I'm too tired to read this, but I assume you tried to justify why Marth = Shiek.
It doesn't matter, statistics don't lie.
You lose.
LOL, Shine is still faster than upsmash+shield lag.
I know about gay upsmash out of shield. its nothing new.
Maybe you should try reading the post. And what statistics are you talking about? If you are takling about how many Sheik players beat how many Marth players, I'd like to see some sort of graph or something. And even if there is (lol), is there something that shows how many of them are equal in skill level? The standard style of Sheik players vs the standard style of Marth players results in Sheik > Marth most of the time. BUT, we are talkin about Sheik and Marth, not the current style of the people playing them.
King Kong
Smash Lord
I was under the impression that the top Marth players in the States generally beat the top Sheik players.
Of course i could be wrong, thats just somethng i've gathered looking at MLG and other tournament results and such. If someone has evidence that points to the contrary please share.
peace out
Of course i could be wrong, thats just somethng i've gathered looking at MLG and other tournament results and such. If someone has evidence that points to the contrary please share.
peace out
sheik beats marth but not as bad as people think.
its morel ike 57 to 43 in sheik favor. Some thing to keep in mind though..
Both can **** well ...
I mean sheiks down throw combos is average of 30 percent damage, while marth is up throw, up titlt... however there is a difference.. sheiks damage is "guranteed" while marth IS NOT!!!!, you can di, and jump[ out of up throw up tilt....
1.) sheik can needle camp marth and force marth to come to them.
2.) marth is a victim to light shield edge hog.
its morel ike 57 to 43 in sheik favor. Some thing to keep in mind though..
Both can **** well ...
I mean sheiks down throw combos is average of 30 percent damage, while marth is up throw, up titlt... however there is a difference.. sheiks damage is "guranteed" while marth IS NOT!!!!, you can di, and jump[ out of up throw up tilt....
1.) sheik can needle camp marth and force marth to come to them.
2.) marth is a victim to light shield edge hog.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Yea, you just tried to justify why Marth<Shiek.
But like I said stats don't lie. I don't need a graph when you're being ignorant and are just trolling this topic with BS.
Any vid you watch Marth Vs Shiek, Shiek wins.
Any tourney you goto, if a Marth has to play a Shiek, the Marth player cries and then loses.
Even Ken can't beat Shiek anymore with Marth(or Fox LOLOLOLOL).
Why do you think Shiek is higher than Marth on the tier list? because Shiek>Marth. Shiek definitely doesn't do as good vs Fox and Falco as Marth does.
Yes Marth can **** Shiek, but not like Shiek can **** Marth(besides Marth ***** everyone and so does Shiek, Shiek wins in the end).
No, its definitely at least 65/35 Shiek. At least. You might as well say its even if its 57/43. Fox beats Shiek 57/43.
Anyone can do that to Marth.cablepuff said:
Marth is edgeguarded by Shiek easier than anyone.
Needles, ledge hop fair/grab if you legde hog, drop off stage and Nair(works at 0%), basically anything Shiek can think of.
I thought KDJ's Sheik was the only one that ever gave trouble to the top Marth's (Ken, Azen, and M2K). Most other Sheik's they can handle some what easily.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Most other Shiek players aren't on Ken's level.
Even captain jack obliterates ken apparently(and Fox! Fox=Shiek).
Even captain jack obliterates ken apparently(and Fox! Fox=Shiek).
if you want to do assumtions like that by one person takeing out a counter charictor you may as well say that because drephan can take out top falcos with sheik that falco sheik is even. (Dope is one of the only falcos drephan cant seem to beat although at game junkie drephan sent dope to losers but then lost the tourny to dope) **** drephan has even beat PC at one tourny(that was a while ago though)
any way like i said it should be a general thing not just what one player can do to others
Sheik ***** Marth
That is all...
any way like i said it should be a general thing not just what one player can do to others
Sheik ***** Marth
That is all...
theFalcoMasta
Smash Apprentice
Isai's sheik beats Ken. DSF's sheik has beaten ken in a set plus many matches within a set. Ken's lost some matches to sheiks like Aesis (though ken won the set).
ken lost to KDJ a few times (sets), as you pointed out.
i've only heard of m2k using marth in marth dittos and against fast fallers. i'd assume he would use fox for sheik.
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
Ken will comeback next season and be able to take every sheik, just wait for it, he is always learning new mindgames and crap for marth that by next year everyone will think that marth counters sheik.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
I probably would, but that's because I don't play Falco.
If Falco's Dair is performed too early, IE poor pillaring, or if you miss the l-cancel then you can usmash out of shield.
I believe shield-grabbing is faster than usmashing out of shield.
I would also like to point out that FLT doesn't attend all MLG's.
there is where you said fox and sheik is equle
if you have played a what i like to call robot foxes aka mew2king and cunning who NEVER miss anything and are so techniquly sound that one drill kick can mean death if the sheik isnt smart
Wow your are totally clueless. You missed the whole point of my previous posts. Lets show you my thesis.
Marth and Sheik are even as characters.
Here is what you think I am saying.
Marth players and Sheik players win against each other 50% of the time.
If you didn't see what I have said, Marth and Sheik are even, I never said the players are.
Current Styles of the Majority of Sheik Players > the Current Styles of the Majority of Marth Players.
When I said this before you said I just tried to prove that Sheik>Marth. Wow ur dumb.
I am saying that Sheik=Marth. Not Sheik Players=Marth players.
You sadi that Marth can **** Sheik. That is if the Marth player uses a style different from the preferred ones being used currently. If they use Marth's moves differently vs Sheik, then Marth > Sheik. If Sheik changes her style as well, then Marth = Sheik. That shows that it is equal. The result just depends on how they are played. The characters themselves are equal.
I bolded and italicized things that need emphasis and voice that are hard for you to see online.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Omg please shut up about style this and style that.
Shiek and Marth are not even as characters.
Marth does better vs Space Animals and that's it.
Shiek has ***** Marth since the begging of the metagame. It hasn't changed and never will.
Shiek beats Marth. End of story.
Shiek and Marth are not even as characters.
Marth does better vs Space Animals and that's it.
Shiek has ***** Marth since the begging of the metagame. It hasn't changed and never will.
Shiek beats Marth. End of story.
Wow after all that you are still clueless? And if you have an argument, please don't screw it up with insults and bs.
I fixed your post.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Clueless about what?
Alright then, all characters current play styles are the reason why there are only like 7 or 8 good characters in this game.
But if some uses a differnt style with Kirby, then Kirby will be top tier.
I gottchya. Make perfect sense.
Alright then, all characters current play styles are the reason why there are only like 7 or 8 good characters in this game.
But if some uses a differnt style with Kirby, then Kirby will be top tier.
I gottchya. Make perfect sense.
I'm going to have to agree with DooDah and say that Sheik > Marth regardless of what style is used or whatever.
As a character Sheik > Marth.
As a character Sheik > Marth.
Sure Kirby can be Top Tier. Considering Tier lists have to do with current play styles and tourney rankings and the fact that I never mentioned tier lists.
Smash GOD - Stop trying to force a debate with DooDah. He's not going to argue against you. In fact no sensible person is, because what you're trying to point out doesn't really apply to this thread.
Just let it drop, please.
Just let it drop, please.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Hooray for Topesies.
I'll drop the argument but not my point. Just cuz I don't argue doesn't mean that I give up. And Tope is cool. The boards wouldn't lemme give him more rep though cuz I still have to spread some.