Marth Counters?

[AS Money]

hey someone noticed

edit i forgot my sig gives it away now ****

 

[Mr.C]

the only peopel who say sheik doesnt get ***** by fox and marth ***** fox

are fox players get that **** outa here son

 

[cablepuff]

fox has more advantage on sheik than sheik has on marth, but i guess i am the only one who thinks that.

 

[NJzFinest]

cablepuff... you are the only one who thinks that.

 

[ajphctp46]

I feel ike Sheik is not that much of a counter to Marth as a lot of people think. It's a hard matchup for sure, but not necessarily a counter. I hate to be a vid *****, but look at like EK vs CJ or Ken vs DSF. At the highest levels, it's almost even, since Marth's range and Fair-Dair combos compensate for Marth's floatiness playing into Sheik's ridiculous comboing.

 

[StripesOrBars]

the only peopel who say sheik doesnt get ***** by fox and marth ***** fox

are fox players get that **** outa here son

Fox is waaaaaay too over rated.

The only people who think Fox ***** all are n00bs(and shiek, marth, and peach players).

Shiek and Fox is even.

Marth and Fox is even.

Shiek ***** Marth

fox has more advantage on sheik than sheik has on marth, but i guess i am the only one who thinks that.

*Ignores*

 

[cablepuff]

k i was totally wrong.

Fox vs sheik is even (agrees).


Sheik ***** marth (disagree, sheik only has a slight advantage against marth..lot closer than people think).

 

[StripesOrBars]

Shiek Vs Marth is like 70/30 in Sheiks Favor.

Shiek Vs Fox is like 52/48 in Fox's Favor.

Ken can't even Beat Shieks anymore with Marth OR Fox(Isai and KDJ in Orlando and KDJ twice in Las Vegas).

Shiek and Marth are top.

 

[AS Money]

ya but then who wins falco

 

[StripesOrBars]

Nvm this post.

 

[ToP CaT]

shiek fox 55/45 (sheik)
fox/marth 50/50 (no johnz)
shiek/marth 53/47 (sheik)

fox hand hang with sheik...get over it

 

[Mr.C]

sheik > marth it can be even at sometimes.
Fox> sheik dont be a nub
Falco > marth unless the marth is better.

 

[JBM falcon08]

Falco
Sheik
Marth
there ya go... those are your top tiers marth only has problems with the above and fox would be 4th which is an even matchup .

 

[StripesOrBars]

Falco
Sheik
Marth
there ya go... those are your top tiers marth only has problems with the above and fox would be 4th which is an even matchup .

Yep, QFT.

Fox=Over rated

I'd much rather play against a Fox than a Marth or Falco.

And LOL @ Falco>Marth

 

[Mr.C]

fox isnt overated lol

u see more fox's placing then any other character

thats why hes #1 on the tier list based on tourney results

and even when sheik was #1 99.9% of the smash community still concidered fox to be the best

fox is no doubt the best in the game and is better/ ***** everyone else

and once u play a pro fox and relize u can never grab them, hardly hit them, how easy the can kill you, how hard it is to do anything vs them because they can run laser spam then nair blahlbahlbah dead.

 

[StripesOrBars]

No, the people who made the tier list all play Shiek and Peach, that's why fox is top.

People who think Fox is the best really need to stop playing Shiek and Peach(sheik=fox).


Fox<Falco(barely)
Fox=Shiek
Fox=Marth

Shiek=Fox
Shiek=Falco
Shiek>>>>>>Marth

Marth=Fox
Marth<Shiek
Marth=Falco

Falco=Marth
Falco>Fox(barely)
Falco=Shiek

Shiek is the only character that ***** another character within the top 4.

 

[cablepuff]

hmm i like to see indepeht reasons (comprehension even us noobs can understand). from both side on

why sheik is only a little bit better than marth and why fox beats up sheik (from mr. c)
Why sheik ***** marth and why fox is even with sheik from doodah?

 

[ToP CaT]

take my word for it gimme a sweet fox and i will beat him with shiek!

 

[ajphctp46]

and even when sheik was #1 99.9% of the smash community still concidered fox to be the best

Umm, no. You're wrong. If 99.9% of the (advanced) smash communiuty CONSIDERED (note spelling) fox the best character, then he would have been the highest on the tier list. Clearly if sheik wasn't considered number one by at least a significant, vocal minority of people, she would never have been number one ever.

 

[JBM falcon08]

why are we arguing still? i guarantee you that the majority of marth players were to vote in a poll, it would be like this
sheik
falco
marth/fox
cfalcon
doc
peach

 

[SwiftBass]

Marth > shiek i'd say 55/45

uptilt destroys shiek and leads to good offensive strikes. on FD shiek wins, but anywhere else....diff story. Marth out ranges her on grabs and ground attacks(up in the air is a bit more complicated). ppl talk about how shiek ***** marths recovery, but lets not forget about how bad shiek's is. probly one of the easiest to edgeguard IMHO.

other opinions

marth vs. fox 50/50
marth vs. falco 55/45 (heavily dependent on stage)

 

[JBM falcon08]

Marth's only counter is Marth.

 

[StripesOrBars]

I think Falcon does better vs Marth than Fox and Falco.


Shiek is definitely the closest thing Marth has to a counter.

*Facts*

Marth players think Shiek is top and the sucky Marth players think Fox/Shiek.

Fox players think Falco is best or Falco/Marth

Falco players think Marth is best and the sucky ones think Fox is

Peach players HATE MARTH AND FOX

Shiek players think Shiek sux and is a horrible character that gets countered by every character in the game.

 

[JBM falcon08]

i'd have to say sheik and marth are marth's hardest matchups. here are some reasons for marth.


1. air combos all over the place, once your in one its kind of hard to get out if the marth knows what he is doing.

2. you basically can't survive even with great DI even on stages like dreamland if you get tipped at like 110%.

3. tech chasing and spacing can really turn the game around, and marth can gimp kill marth so badly by tipping him off the edge then going off of the edge bairing him, making it just as hard to recover even if you did save your jump.

4. Ken combo.

 

[SynikaL]

How absolutely idiotic is it to consider a ditto a characters' "hardest" matchup? Just step away from the keyboard a moment and think about that...


-Syn

 

[cablepuff]

hmm still the argument is like sheik > marth noob or fox > sheik or fox = sheik noobs, and yet no one puts in solid "characterstics and moves facts", just what players think.

 

[Tope]

Marth barely beats Fox

Fox barely beats Sheik

Sheik beats Marth

Falco barely beats them all, but has alot of slightly harder matchup's then the others, aka Peach.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Tope is the man.

 

[NJzFinest]

gg Tope, now if only everyone would agree on this.

 

[JBM falcon08]

How absolutely idiotic is it to consider a ditto a characters' "hardest" matchup? Just step away from the keyboard a moment and think about that...


-Syn

lol none. how idiotic can a person be saying that a marth ditto isn't difficult? I'm pretty sure if u were to ask ken or azen they'd most likely say that going against each other in a marth ditto is the most difficult/troubling match for them. don't insult my opinion. marth dittos are a pain in the *** as far as i'm concerned from my standpoint, i just said my opinion just as you did saying that it was idiotic to consider. quit looking to start stuff, i'm just putting down what i think about the discussion, You on the other hand did nothing therefore you should stfu.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Yeah, but JBM, you can't say Marth is a Marth counter.

It's like saying Shiek counters Shiek because she can chain grab herself.

It's not logical.

They are exactly the same, it's an even fight no matter what, unless one player is significantly better than the other.

 

[SynikaL]

They are exactly the same, it's an even fight no matter what, unless one player is significantly better than the other.

Even then, if you want to remain completely objective you don't consider players' skill levels at all. That's a requisite premise of the tier list discussion this silly community seems to be so hopelessly fond of.

-Syn

 

[JBM falcon08]

Yeah, but JBM, you can't say Marth is a Marth counter.

It's like saying Shiek counters Shiek because she can chain grab herself.

It's not logical.

They are exactly the same, it's an even fight no matter what, unless one player is significantly better than the other.

yeah, true, i understand your point, but imo marth dittos is nothing but a bunch of gimp kills, and it can be a hard ******** matchup.

 

[Virgilijus]

The only reason it can be hard is because it is an even matchup; with Marth you're typically used to having an advantage over your opponent, at least in range). When you are in a ditto, none of your strengths are greater than theirs.

For a crude example, in paper-rock-scissors, a rock doesn't counter itself.

 

[flaco]

Hold up not according to these tournament I went yesterday omg these marth ***** two falcos and two foxes and they knew how to play but he just rapped them jc grab unexpected tilt tilt to fsmash to edge guard although I rapped him on singles I got 13 yes.

 

[Mr.C]

fox > falco mangs

fox can upsmash out of shield every single dair/nair falco does to his shield

not to mention easy *** upthrow combos

 

[Virgilijus]

I'm not so sure about the upsmash out of the shield on every dair/nair. When they l-cancel perfectly, you really don't have time for anything, at least in my experience.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I saw lots of argument in this thread so I decided to contribute to it

Some Fox players really know how to destroy Marth inside out. Some Marths know how to slice right through Fox's head.

Fox's Uair/Usmash/Uthrow combos along with shines and grab and SHFFLed Nairs and Bairs etc. can really pin Marth down. BUT, Marth can chainthrow Fox, which counts for a lot, into an Utilt, into another Uthrow, into Utilt to continue or to Fsmash to edgeguard. Fsmash/Utilt/Dtilt/Ken Combos/Fair Combos can throw Fox into a corner.

Fox can either = Marth or Marth can > Fox or Fox can > Marth..

Falco can really undermine Marth's defenses with SHL spam and Nair and pillaring. Marth has some nice combos too and can take stocks without taking damage, but Falco is truly on the upperhand in this matchup.

Marth has no projectiles, so is stuck jumping and shielding and spot dodging the SHL spam. Falco will SHL spam to Nair/Dair to pillar/JC grab/etc. and combo Marth to oblivion. Marth can chainthrow Falco to Utilt to grab/Fsmash etc. to kill without taking damage, but its hard. If the Falco really knows how to SHL and pillar and use aerials/ground moves effectively, the Marth is pwnd.

Falco > Marth

Sheik can outpriotize and attack faster than Marth. has a horizontal trajectory, and after going off the side and downward, Marth can really get back up unless he has a jump. Marth can combo Sheik just as well with Fair/Uair/Utilt/Uthrow/Fsmash/Bair combos and edgehog her.

Sheik has her needles to stop Marth's recovery. Marth can combo her with aerials easily while she is pushed around helplessly. To do this you must have good mindgames and awareness to see her motions, if you become to obvious then you will be caught in Sheik's trap. Sheik has tilt combos and Dsmash and chainthrow. Marth can get Sheik with Dtilt edgeguard or can Bair off the stage and interrupt aerials combos with your disjointed hitbox. This matchup could be either very defensive or very offensive.

Sheik = Marth

Fox vs Marth - can go either way, depends on the players and his or her styles

Falco vs Marth - Falco > Marth

SheiK vs Marth - Sheik = Marth

 

[StripesOrBars]

LOL at Shiek=Marth.

 

[Vall3y]

maybe at PAL and even there im not sure
what do you say?

we should all move to pal