Mario Questions and Answers; Ask here first!

[steep]

Hey guys I've been experimenting with using grounded b reverse fireball since we talked about Mario vs D3… What do you think? How often does anyone use this, and would it be a good mind game possibly? Or generally would using shield to cancel dash work better?

I realize that b reverse grounded fireball is probably mostly only useful if the enemy is chasing you, and even then only if they don't shield/powershield the fireball and punish you. I just was wondering what other peoples thoughts were, such as which characters it would work better against, and in what situations.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Matador]

He could still gimp with the sourspot of it.

How does Luigi's weak nair hit? I forget...

I assumed it still hit the opponent vertically, just not as much.

Edit @ Steep: It worked out for 2Fast in those vids versus Yars...I'd say give it a go. Can't hurt to mix it into your play.

 

[Inferno3044]

Luigi's sourspot nair pops the opponent up a bit.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Depends on the character.

But yeah, I agree. It definitely would benefit Mario to have an aerial KO move. It'd hurt his gimping ability pretty severely though.

I don't remember the last time I gimped anyone that isn't Link, Falcon, Ganon or olimar

 

[Matador]

Luigi's sourspot nair pops the opponent up a bit.

That's what I figured. That's not gonna gimp anyone, Z'zgashi, lol.

I don't remember the last time I gimped anyone that isn't Link, Falcon, Ganon or olimar

My gimp game is severely lacking too. I usually read their recovery right, but my timing is usually off with cape or w/e.

 

[HeroMystic]

Depends on the character.

But yeah, I agree. It definitely would benefit Mario to have an aerial KO move. It'd hurt his gimping ability pretty severely though.

How?

B-air and U-air edgeguards far better than what Mario's N-air can do. There's Fireball > F-air too, and of course the Cape. I don't see how his gimping can be hurt severely (nevermind it's damn near impossible to gimp anyone in this game if you know how to DI).

 

[Matador]

The best moves to gimp with are the ones that allow the least amount of DI (or have insane kockback like MK's Dair...). Weak moves like fireballs and sourspot nair are great for that. Sourspot bair too, if you can time it. This isn't for EVERY gimping scenario, but it's a common denominator for most.

Think about it. If you are trying to intercept a recovering TL, hitting him with Bair or Uair will knock him back, but allow him to DI up as well and possibly recover without using that DJ of his. Sometimes that weak nair or fireball is enough to stop his forward momentum so that he has to start it again...most times he won't have enough time for that and will have to use the double jump to successfully recover (depends on the DI). If you hit an opponent with it after they've used their double jump, sometimes you can just grab the ledge afterwards and secure a gimp.

There's also the benefit of it staying active forever...so timing isn't a big deal. It beats all spacey illusions...trades with a lot of other aerials...overall it's a pretty good tool to have offstage.

And yeah, I kinda suck at gimping currently compared to where I think Mario's offstage game could be. I don't believe it's outrageous to think that Mario's gimping game could be reliable in the right hands...technically he CAN gimp most of the cast off of one good read while recovering.

 

[Z'zgashi]

That's what I figured. That's not gonna gimp anyone, Z'zgashi, lol.

Lol, maybe solopo

 

[Luigisama]

Lol, maybe solopo

or someone really DIing bad on purpose.

 

[holyv]

Why you need a gimping aerial

You guys, you have a cape that turns people around and stales you on the air!!

 

[Z'zgashi]

What if Mario had MK's dair :o

 

[Jimmyfosho]

needs less what ifs

 

[Inferno3044]

What if we stopped asking what if questions and tried to do productive **** with Mario?

 

[Coolwhip]

What if Mario had MK's dair :o

Stop it with the silly troll questions.

 

[steep]

What if we stopped asking what if questions and tried to do productive **** with Mario?

I concur wholeheartedly my plumber brother from another mother.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

so what do you guys do against a roll happy opponent? I usually just like walk up to them and wait for the roll then punish with a smash or grab.

 

[ThatGuy]

I usually run up to them, say 'boo', follow the roll, and taunt.

 

[Matador]

I start charging my smashes more.

 

[steep]

I sometimes do the jab thing that I've seen boss do… jab, turn around, jab, kind of thing, so they roll after the first jab and then roll into the second one. Then depending on their percentage and how far away from me they are after the jab, I either go for a grab, a smash, or an aerial/another jab to set up a string or a kill.

 

[BSP]

I get where they would roll to and Mario Tornado; If they don't roll, I just jump away and shoot a fireball.

 

[SKidd]

Anyone mind digging up a recent Mario vs. Falco write-up?




... Or writing a new one?

 

[Veggi]

That would be good. I need help against Falco.

 

[steep]

I've played against clowsui and shugo a couple times. I don't know if I should do a write-up with just that experience though.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

So I've realized after playing a friend that I get punished because I am always jumping around (due to the Mario's aerial game obviously). So my question is how do you guys keep a balance between your ground game and air game?

 

[Matador]

Its mainly match-up based, for me. I won't jump vs Sheik, won't be found grounded vs Jiggz, and in between vs someone like Kirby.

Beyond that, don't do either strategy so often that the opponent has an opportunity to read you. As long as you keep them guessing, do what you feel. Just know that some characters can capitalize off of certain strategies better than others.

 

[Orion*]

So I've realized after playing a friend that I get punished because I am always jumping around (due to the Mario's aerial game obviously). So my question is how do you guys keep a balance between your ground game and air game?

don't jump uselessly or unsafely unless you are specifically trying to bait something or have a read. vs some characters opportunities arise a lot more than others, based on their air/ground game vs yours. you want to stay in a position that optimizes your options, and limits your opponents as much as possible


edit:
also if you are doing this properly rolls should never be a problem save maybe for a smart lucario/mk or something. in marios optimal range it should be easy to just sh nair or just turn around grab (not dash) on reaction. i suppose you could dair, but it's a bit to committed for me unless you already jumped prematurely. optimally sh dair is not something you would react with, and with a read you could do it early and since the hitbox is out for a while the execution is easier or something... but in the end thats not your best option.

if you're reading them that hard start upsmashing them LOOL

 

[Orion*]

does anyone else find it weird that i suck vs low tiers with mario but i play fine vs mid and up >_>

im so used to just cping low tiers in tournament with something gay because i never play them anyway that i dont know all the "ins and outs". so when i play like lol lucas/ike with mario i have noooo idea what to do. but if i play like sheik/DK/fox/mk/w.e. im all set LOL

 

[Z'zgashi]

Ike isnt low tier...

 

[Inferno3044]

Ike is overrated imo.

 

[Matador]

Mario loses to Lucas doe...and Ike is tricky. It's still an even match-up, imo, but that jab...It's harder to win those match-ups without a lil experience.

Sheik, Fox, and DK all feel like even and straight-forward match-ups to me. Mario may lose to DK, but that's mainly the survivability difference. If you know how these three characters work in general, then it's doable without match-up experience as Mario, imo.

MK tho...lol. Dunno how u pull that off.

Ike is mid, imo...

 

[Z'zgashi]

Ike is overrated imo.

Ike is underrated imo. With MK gone, who's gonna stop him now?

King Dedede

 

[Inferno3044]

All Ike has is jab. Everything else is hella slow and reactable.

Also I know this sounds like super theory craft but if you crouch with Snake looking away from Ike he basically can't hit you. His jab will phantom hit, he has to be literally up his *** to grab him, and everything else is slow enough to react to.

 

[BSP]

All Ike has is jab.

That's all he needs

His jab is really good

Like, really good

He's also one of the people with a ******** spotdodge -> fast, disjointed move. You've got to have good timing to hit this dude out of spotdodge -> jab ; it's silly how good it is

 

[Matador]

I'd say his jab is the best thing about him...but he has quite a few other good qualities as well...the most obvious one being his wtf-range.

 

[HeroMystic]

I'd say his jab is the best thing about him...but he has quite a few other good qualities as well...the most obvious one being his wtf-range.

Ike has Jab, very good auto-cancelling aerials, and great range. His jab just simply allows him to be a brick wall against anyone who doesn't have fully disjointed hitboxes.

@Inferno: Ike can F-air or N-air a crouched Snake.

 

[Inferno3044]

Ike has Jab, very good auto-cancelling aerials, and great range. His jab just simply allows him to be a brick wall against anyone who doesn't have fully disjointed hitboxes.

@Inferno: Ike can F-air or N-air a crouched Snake.

You can react to Ike's fair. You might have a point with nair.

 

[HeroMystic]

My point is it's actually pretty easy to "touch" Snake even if he's humping the floor. In the end the crouching does nothing.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

how do I get around sonic's mindgames? All the things he can do out of that spindash makes me confused and helpless.

 

[Coolwhip]

Be patient, and wait for an opening. try to stay grounded most of the match.
fireballs will stop sonic's spindash, no question about it.

fludd can also play a role in how sonic approaches.

 

[HeroMystic]

how do I get around sonic's mindgames? All the things he can do out of that spindash makes me confused and helpless.

When push comes to shove, you can always fireball him. Personally, I just see Sonic as one of those characters that staying defensive is a bad thing.