Official Mario Enigma Machine [1.1.1] Patch Notes

[Pyr]

Considering all the lulz-worthy things that occurred with the changes in this patch, I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to make a few more tweeks.

 

[Eureka]

I don't think some balance changes in the bug fix patch are that odd. Since I'm guessing the balance team is continually tweaking and refining the game I wouldn't be surprised if they already have some changes made to some obviously bad or good custom moves done already and figured they might as well put them in with the update.

That or they just have the urge to nerf Diddy again.

Egad! A double post! Silly internet doing silly things. Sorry about that.

 

[WRECK-IT MUNDO]

Patch 1.12 is out everyone!

 

[Thinkaman]

There are no changes to character script files, as expected.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Well, something, somewhere game-wise changed. My replays don't work. Would the changes thus be engine-level?

EDIT: I'm stupid. This patch was for fixing the Diddy glitch, wasn't it?

 

[Eureka]

Well, something, somewhere game-wise changed. My replays don't work. Would the changes thus be engine-level?

Well since there are not changes to the character files apparently whatever they did to fix the Diddy Kong glitch must be on an engine level. Actually, do we even know what caused that glitch in the first place? Why is it only Diddy Kong?

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Well since there are not changes to the character files apparently whatever they did to fix the Diddy Kong glitch must be on an engine level. Actually, do we even know what caused that glitch in the first place? Why is it only Diddy Kong?

Copy and pasting my findings that I sent to Shaya earlier.

Okay, I tested grabbing during shieldstun/shieldlag. My findings are...interesting.

The tl;dr version is that if a player's shield is struck, they are throw-invincible. But ONLY to grabs performed by the player that struck their shield. And this only applies to physical attacks; multi-hit projectiles (Mega Man's crash bomb or Robin's Arcthunder) do not activate the grab glitch.

I had Roy with +200 attack and 2 Mega Mans in Training Mode (so I could set the speed to 1/4, I'm not coordinated enough to do all the following on my own at normal speed). One MM on the edge, Roy standing next to him and the other MM standing behind Roy. I shield with the MM on the edge, Roy d-smashes. When Roy D-smashes, the MM behind Roy hits him with a lemon, which cancels out Roy's hitlag. Roy then attempts to grab the MM that's still in hitlag. Both in hitlag and in shieldstun after hitlag ends, Roy's grab whiffs.

By comparison, in regular Smash I had Roy d-smash a shield while another character stood behind and grabbed; even though player 2 was in shieldlag/shieldstun, they still got grabbed by player 3.

Also, I tried activating the Diddy grab glitch in a 3-player game. Player 1 activated the glitch on Player 2 Diddy. Player 1 could not grab Player 2, as expected. However, Player 3 could still grab Diddy. But if Player 3 grabbed Diddy, Player 1 is still unable to grab Diddy. If Player 3 hits Diddy's shield, the glitch de-activates for Player 1.

Throw invincibility during shieldlag/shieldstun does not apply to projectiles, however. Robin and Link are still able to grab characters who are in shieldlag/shieldstun while the opponent is shielding Arcthunder or returning Boomerang respectively. This would explain why the glitch doesn't activate against multi-hit projectiles.

In conclusion, I believe that the grab invincibility during shieldlag/shieldstun is new (probably introduced because of the increased shieldstun); Diddy's damage animations just don't cancel out the invincibility properly for some reason. This grab invincibility is also different from the one they introduced to stop chain grabs; if you grab someone and then throw them, no one can grab them. With this, only the player that hit their shield is unable to grab them.

 

[ksizl4life]

Hey guys, I'm posting again to talk about another inconsistency I'm seeing with data posted here/ssbwiki and the games themselves. Luigi's Cyclone knockback growth being reduced by 10, from 130 to 120. Me and Zucco are pretty sure this is false.

We've tested it killing from the side, killing from above, killing from below, from all different angles. 1.1.0 and 1.1.1 are killing at the same exact percents and not killing at the same exact percents. Just detailing this due to Luigi being a part of today's video, since that Cyclone information won't be in the video. Unless we're doing something wrong and I really doubt it considering how much time we put into testing this one move, the data for that move as far as knockback growth goes was misinterpreted.

I'll likely make a video for Luigi solo showing that it wasn't nerfed, unless someone can point out the exact change. The video would be serve as a PSA, as I've seen several casters, players and posters talking about how Cyclone was nerfed in knockback while that doesn't look like the case and everyone should be informed.

 

[The Green Lanyard]

Copy and pasting my findings that I sent to Shaya earlier.

This reminds me of the visual Yoshi glitch, where if he's hit in the middle of his down-b, those colorful motion lines around him linger.

There's also the Olimar ghost pikmin glitch, where if Olimar throws a pikmin on stage, hangs onto a ledge, and gets up right as the pikmin joins him, the pikmin becomes invisible, since apparently pikmin w/ Olimar are programmed to be invisible when he's on the ledge, and getting up at the right time interrupts the programming that makes it visible again.

There seems to be a pattern for these glitches: Temporary traits that are supposed to last only for the duration of some action, and interrupting those actions early leading to "turn off that trait" code never running.

 

[Raziek]

Hey guys, I'm posting again to talk about another inconsistency I'm seeing with data posted here/ssbwiki and the games themselves. Luigi's Cyclone knockback growth being reduced by 10, from 130 to 120. Me and Zucco are pretty sure this is false.

We've tested it killing from the side, killing from above, killing from below, from all different angles. 1.1.0 and 1.1.1 are killing at the same exact percents and not killing at the same exact percents. Just detailing this due to Luigi being a part of today's video, since that Cyclone information won't be in the video. Unless we're doing something wrong and I really doubt it considering how much time we put into testing this one move, the data for that move as far as knockback growth goes was misinterpreted.

I'll likely make a video for Luigi solo showing that it wasn't nerfed, unless someone can point out the exact change. The video would be serve as a PSA, as I've seen several casters, players and posters talking about how Cyclone was nerfed in knockback while that doesn't look like the case and everyone should be informed.

Wasn't this pulled directly from the data, like almost everything else? I find it highly suspect that could be wrong.

 

[FullMoon]

So Greninja's N-Air really is -4 on shield now if you do it perfectly, that's pretty crazy.

 

[ksizl4life]

Wasn't this pulled directly from the data, like almost everything else? I find it highly suspect that could be wrong.

Considering we've found frame data inconsistencies(proved with yesterdays video and the one that'll come out today) as a comparison to data here and on ssbwiki, I'm pretty sure not everything Thinkaman posted was accurate.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

The changes noted for Luigi's Cyclone (and we are talking about the default version, not the custom move) are for the air version -SpecialAirLw. The data does not have a corresponding entry for SpecialLw. That's another hiccup.

 

[Methacrylate]

The changes noted for Luigi's Cyclone (and we are talking about the default version, not the custom move) are for the air version -SpecialAirLw. The data does not have a corresponding entry for SpecialLw. That's another hiccup.

I was just getting ready to type this... the default cyclone only changed for aerial version while the custom 3 cyclone changed for both the grounded and aerial versions.

Edit: Apparently I am terrible at reading the Dantarion files.

 

[ksizl4life]

We've tried it in the air both ways. Luigi decending onto the opponent, both final hit and multi hit. And also jumping into the opponent in the air. Everything kills at the same exact percents accross both updates. One percent point shaved off, and both don't kill. I don't get it.

I'll make a video and show off all possible angles/examples.

I was just getting ready to type this... the default cyclone only changed for aerial version while the custom 3 cyclone changed for both the grounded and aerial versions.

Interestingly enough there is something I noticed in the Dantarion data which is not mentioned in the OP, the d-smash had a damage increase from 14 -> 15 on both hits (the front and back hits).

Both front and back hits do 14 damage in 1.1.0 and 1.1.1

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

We've tried it in the air both ways. Luigi decending onto the opponent, both final hit and multi hit. And also jumping into the opponent in the air. Everything kills at the same exact percents accross both updates. One percent point shaved off, and both don't kill. I don't get it.

I'll make a video and show off all possible angles/examples.

Both front and back hits do 14 damage in 1.1.0 and 1.1.1

That is definitely peculiar regarding cyclone. Regarding Dsmash, the data does not show a difference in damage either. The opponent must be on top of Luigi for the 15% hit. And I do mean above him, not just close. Or at least, that's the only way I was able to get the 15% hit, and it seems unchanged between patches. Only a difference in knockback for Dsmash.

Edit: A better method for getting the 15% hit seems to be using Dsmash as close as possible on Wii Fit Trainer. You need some walking momentum for moving in to her.

 

[FullMoon]

By the way let's stop and admire the fact that Greninja's Down Taunt in -1 on shield.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Isn't it a multihit move that does like 4 or so %?

 

[Plain Yogurt]

I was gonna say. Next level ledge getup coverage meta for Greninja?

 

[ksizl4life]

Welp, disregard everything I said recently aboutthe Luigi inconsistency. The basis for our conclusion that the data was wrong came from us originally recording us starting Cyclone from the air and landing on the opponent with multi hits, into the kill hit. Both versions killed at 174. But who would've thought the moment Luigi touches the ground, any knockback dealt comes from the ground variant, even though the move began in the air. So since the gorund version received no knockback change, naturally both versions kill at the same percent.

Ignorance got the better of us. My apologies and thanks for the info to clear it up!

 

[FullMoon]

Isn't it a multihit move that does like 4 or so %?

It does 0.5% when it hits, but it does hit multiple times if you shield it.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Welp, disregard everything I said recently aboutthe Luigi inconsistency. The basis for our conclusion that the data was wrong came from us originally recording us starting Cyclone from the air and landing on the opponent with multi hits, into the kill hit. Both versions killed at 174. But who would've thought the moment Luigi touches the ground, any knockback dealt comes from the ground variant, even though the move began in the air. So since the gorund version received no knockback change, naturally both versions kill at the same percent.

Ignorance got the better of us. My apologies and thanks for the info to clear it up!

Yeah. Same thing applies to Ganondorf's Warlock Punch actually. You only get the absurd damage and knockback of the aerial version of the move if you hit while still in the air. Otherwise, you're just sacrificing the move's super-armoured startup for no real reason.

 

[Methacrylate]

That is definitely peculiar regarding cyclone. Regarding Dsmash, the data does not show a difference in damage either. The opponent must be on top of Luigi for the 15% hit. And I do mean above him, not just close. Or at least, that's the only way I was able to get the 15% hit, and it seems unchanged between patches. Only a difference in knockback for Dsmash.

Ah I see, mixed up the hitbox IDs when I looked at it the first time.

 

[Unowninator]

Mewtwo's Down Smash actually hits foes hanging on the edge; originally it ALWAYS missed; the only attack that hit them on the edge was a Forward tilt angled downwards.

 

[meleebrawler]

Mewtwo's Down Smash actually hits foes hanging on the edge; originally it ALWAYS missed; the only attack that hit them on the edge was a Forward tilt angled downwards.

I've been able to hit people on the ledge with dsmash since day 1; it's just quite difficult because of timing and spacing required.

Yeah. Same thing applies to Ganondorf's Warlock Punch actually. You only get the absurd damage and knockback of the aerial version of the move if you hit while still in the air. Otherwise, you're just sacrificing the move's super-armoured startup for no real reason.

The game even notes that it's absolutely impossible for Ganondorf to ever land an aerial Warlock Punch without item or platform assistance.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

The game even notes that it's absolutely impossible for Ganondorf to ever land an aerial Warlock Punch without item or platform assistance.

No platform assistance required, only pure disrespect. Send a foe with a long-range (or very vertical) recovery way offstage, double jump just over the ledge and Warlock Punch while they try to recover low, and profit. No, it's not at all practical. No, there is no good reason to do this. Yes, it's the focus of a great many Smash 4 Ganondorf montages on Youtube.

 

[ksizl4life]

Part 2 of our patch notes vid is now live! Expect part 3 tomorrow.

 

[Eureka]

By the way let's stop and admire the fact that Greninja's Down Taunt in -1 on shield.

So Greninja's taunt is now safe on shield?

Huh.

 

[Boney]

Part 2 of our patch notes vid is now live! Expect part 3 tomorrow.

Samus coming tomorrow? What's the hold up? I'd love detailed look at nair's new hitbox.

What's left for tomorrow?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Samus coming tomorrow? What's the hold up? I'd love detailed look at nair's new hitbox.

What's left for tomorrow?

Samus alone would probably take a third of a video. There's also Ganon's new Nair, Bowser Jr. and Ike's everything.

 

[Equin0x]

Copy and pasting my findings that I sent to Shaya earlier.

Was this 1.1.1 or 1.1.2? Has it been changed in 1.1.2?

 

[LordWilliam1234]

So Greninja's taunt is now safe on shield?

Huh.

Actually it was always safe on shield. Pre-patch it was +4/-3 on shield (shield drop/OOS). Post-patch the shieldstun went up by 2 frames so now it's +6/-1.

Greninja's down taunt only has 3 frames of endlag so even pre-patch with no shieldstun on it it was still safe.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Well... it seems update 1.1.2 just rolled in. Apparently, it states that the issue regarding the glitch with Diddy was already removed.

 

[Vipermoon]

I'm surprised we got ****IN patch notes this time!

 

[Methacrylate]

I'm surprised we got ****IN patch notes this time!

Yet they still felt the need to add the "adjustments have also been made for a more pleasant gaming experience," line into the patch notes. Guess they felt the need to keep the some sort of ambiguity in there.

 

[divade]

Can the patch date of each character please include the date (not day of the week) of the latest and previous patch note? It's hard to tell if something is new

 

[[Deuce]]

Copy and pasting my findings that I sent to Shaya earlier.

So what I got from this is that if these findings are true, while offense has been buffed a bit (except for shield approach), its only been buffed to the extent that moves are safer from OoS options but not to the point that one can safely link a grab during shieldstun?

Actually it was always safe on shield. Pre-patch it was +4/-3 on shield (shield drop/OOS). Post-patch the shieldstun went up by 2 frames so now it's +6/-1.

Greninja's down taunt only has 3 frames of endlag so even pre-patch with no shieldstun on it it was still safe.

Wasn't post-patch changed such that all shieldstun consumes shield drop frames?
In that case it'd be +4/-1 post patch?

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm surprised we got ****IN patch notes this time!

Every time a major glitch gets fixed we get patch notes.

 

[Vipermoon]

Every time a major glitch gets fixed we get a patch note.

Fixed.

And yeah I'm just making jokes up here.

 

[ksizl4life]

Samus coming tomorrow? What's the hold up? I'd love detailed look at nair's new hitbox.

What's left for tomorrow?

Yes, Samus will be in today's video. But due to the specifics and nature of how Nair was(legit, it would just miss sometimes in 1.1.0 and now that's less of a problem), that part of the video showcases only 1.1.1 Nair being used and spaced to show new hitboxes instead of a compare/contrast spot. Sorry if that's disappointing, but we tend to show before/after spots for big hitbox changes or controversial moves(like Villagers Exploding Balloons). Still though, Samus got a few nice things.

The other characters in todays video are Fox, Bowser Jr, Ganondorf, Villager(though he was in the previous video, he's there again to show the Up B nerf that we missed), and Ike.

EDIT: Videos live!