Official Mario Enigma Machine [1.1.1] Patch Notes

[Got4n]

This patch changed awfully the game IMO, it's worse also I think, only good point is Luigi nerf, although it's my honest opinion, I completely agree with other opinion

 

[MZG20]

And they'll never get close to buff Jiggly...

 

[Rawbinator]

So, Shaya , remember what I mentioned earlier about how Ryu had a delay to his run if you had to turn around first?

Looks like this was a 1.10 change, not a 1.11 change.

Here's me doing a Shakunetsu Hadoken in 1.08:

And here's 1.10:

And finally, 1.11:

Note that Ryu only crouches and turns around in the latter two instances. In 1.08, he turns around for a couple of frames and then starts running immediately.

For further evidence, here's just me doing a back run with Ryu in 1.08:

And here's me doing a back run with Ryu in 1.11:

2 frames of turnaround in 1.08 (also shown in the other gif I have above), 5 frames of turnaround in 1.11.

I know this isn't entirely relevant to 1.11 now, but I thought it would be worth mentioning since this is not noted in the 1.10 thread. At least, not in the OP.

This change makes dash attacks with Ryu slightly awkward if you have to turn around...if you input attack too quickly you will just turn around tilt (I use tilt stick)

 

[LancerStaff]

Also finished Pit's frame data. To no one's surprise, his frame data is almost exactly the same as Dark Pit's.

These are the only differences:

1. Dark Pit's Arrows are 2 frames safer on shield than Pit's (min charge and max charge), but Pit's last longer.
2. Dark Pit's Piercing Arrows are 1 frame safer on shield than Pit's (min charge and max charge), but Pit's last longer.
3. Pit's Guiding Arrows are 1 frame better on shield than Dark Pit's at minimum charge, but Dark Pit's Guiding Arrows are 1 frame better on shield than Pit's at max charge. Pit's Guiding Arrows also last longer than Dark Pit's.
4. Dark Pit's Electroshock Arm and it's variants all have higher hitlag than Pit's Upperdash Arm. However, they have the same frame advantage.

This matches what I've found in the past, although Electroshock not being any safer is new. And baffling... Wonder if it's some kind of fake element or if it has a lower hitlag modifier so it matches Pit's.

Surprised you didn't point out how Dark Pit's custom Nspecials could be charged slightly longer. Your page isn't agreeing with my browser, but I'm also wondering if Dark Pit's Striking Flight was any safer then Pit's since (I'm fairly certain) it does more damage.

 

[jmjb]

noooo villager got a nerf... thats the last thing i needed

 

[theyellowflash26]

Well the best way I can explain it is that you can attack shields with aerials and then follow-up instead of having to read an opening. He's just one of the characters who had a lot of trouble playing aggressive because he had no options besides Pk fire and Zair that were safe on shield, and even those weren't very good, so his neutral was awful and I felt he was not viable because of it.

NOW, i'm doing the same aggressive fast fall aerial heavy style I wanted to play (reminiscent of how I play him in PM) and I don't get punished even half as much as before. To be honest, it's reallly hard to explain unless you tried to get him to tournament level before the patch, because talking to other Lucas players, I can just mention this issue as his "biggest flaw in design", in that pre-patch, playing him aggressively was brain dead easy to punish, but his is no longer an issue.

I've been trying to play him since he came out. I was really excited for him and then just like you said I couldn't play him as aggressive as I wanted to. I haven't really tried him since the patch but I think I'll give him another go now.

 

[Patriot Duck]

Well the best way I can explain it is that you can attack shields with aerials and then follow-up instead of having to read an opening. He's just one of the characters who had a lot of trouble playing aggressive because he had no options besides Pk fire and Zair that were safe on shield, and even those weren't very good, so his neutral was awful and I felt he was not viable because of it.

NOW, i'm doing the same aggressive fast fall aerial heavy style I wanted to play (reminiscent of how I play him in PM) and I don't get punished even half as much as before. To be honest, it's reallly hard to explain unless you tried to get him to tournament level before the patch, because talking to other Lucas players, I can just mention this issue as his "biggest flaw in design", in that pre-patch, playing him aggressively was brain dead easy to punish, but his is no longer an issue.

Could you elaborate a little more on that? Which aerials are you landing with and what are you following up with? Is it something along the line of landing with a sweetspot fair and continuing pressure with, say, a jab? I'd really like to know.

 

[FUEGO!]

Could you elaborate a little more on that? Which aerials are you landing with and what are you following up with? Is it something along the line of landing with a sweetspot fair and continuing pressure with, say, a jab? I'd really like to know.

Well I tend to fast fall with all of his aerials, really, as mix-up strategies. They all tend to keep a shielding opponent in place now for follow-ups instead of looking like a "yolo option" for lack of a better phrase.

Here's me messing around with him against what I feel is the most human-like level of CPU:

I've been trying to play him since he came out. I was really excited for him and then just like you said I couldn't play him as aggressive as I wanted to. I haven't really tried him since the patch but I think I'll give him another go now.

Watch that video and tell me if that's the type of aggression you wished you could play with. All of this has been working on my friends so far today.

EDIT: just realized that video doesn't really showcase what I'm talking about because the CPU wasn't shielding much. But at least you can see the type of playstyle that works with him now.

 

[TurboLink]

And they'll never get close to buff Jiggly...

What buffs could they possibly give Jigglypuff to make it better?

 

[Eureka]

What buffs could they possibly give Jigglypuff to make it better?

Combo throw, less landing lag, pound being safe on shield, better range, faster moves, rest setups. They could do a ton to make puff better.

 

[Vipermoon]

Hey guys sorry I haven't been able to follow this thread.

Can someone please review the details on the hitstun change/placebo? Last thing I read, the combo counter is showing new combos (I may have noticed this with Marth and his throws but can't prove anything). I didn't see anything about it in the OP. Thanks.

 

[Firefoxx]

Hey guys sorry I haven't been able to follow this thread.

Can someone please review the details on the hitstun change/placebo? Last thing I read, the combo counter is showing new combos (I may have noticed this with Marth and his throws but can't prove anything). I didn't see anything about it in the OP. Thanks.

if you are talking about the thing with Sonic having a combo register that didnt before, that has been proven false as it always counted as a combo

 

[q_e_d]

Hey guys sorry I haven't been able to follow this thread.

Can someone please review the details on the hitstun change/placebo? Last thing I read, the combo counter is showing new combos (I may have noticed this with Marth and his throws but can't prove anything). I didn't see anything about it in the OP. Thanks.

It doesn't look like hitstun is changed.
The very relevant change is that to shield stun (also shield lag for attacks with hitlag modifiers), those changes are all listed in the OP of http://smashboards.com/threads/shields-in-1-1-1.419235/.

 

[Vipermoon]

Okay thanks

 

[Eureka]

Have we confirmed that the Mii Swordfighter Chakram infinite is still in the game? Because I just tried it out and it didn't work. I believe that characters slide farther when hit with the Chakram now, although my timing could have just been off.

 

[Firefoxx]

Have we confirmed that the Mii Swordfighter Chakram infinite is still in the game? Because I just tried it out and it didn't work. I believe that characters slide farther when hit with the Chakram now, although my timing could have just been off.

it wasn't a true infinite in the first place, and no knockback changes happened to it this patch

 

[Eureka]

it wasn't a true infinite in the first place, and no knockback changes happened to it this patch

My bad I was under the impression that it was a true infinite, guess that's what I get for not trying things out on my own. (then again who plays his wacky character anyway?) There are no changes to the frame data of that move too I'm guessing?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Mii Swordfighter has some tweak in his code that repeats on almost all his moves, but chakram isn't one of them. It seems to be on every move that's a sword attack. Nobody has been able to interpret it so far. I can tell you that there are no changes to endlag. Nor sword size, which was what I was expecting to find, since it's listed as "effect" instead of "game", meaning it's probably some aesthetic change.

Edit: Of course I should probably post a link to what I'm talking about.

 

[Eureka]

Mii Swordfighter has some tweak in his code that repeats on almost all his moves, but chakram isn't one of them. It seems to be on every move that's a sword attack. Nobody has been able to interpret it so far. I can tell you that there are no changes to endlag. Nor sword size, which was what I was expecting to find, since it's listed as "effect" instead of "game", meaning it's probably some aesthetic change.

Maybe it was some adjustment to the sword trails?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Maybe it was some adjustment to the sword trails?

Yes, that was my theory. The sword's visual size does not match up to hitboxes for certain sizes of Mii. My favorite test scenario is to put a target on one of the lower platforms of battlefield and perform Utilt under them as a default sized Mii. The sword hitbox still doesn't connect until you're well under them, making for a very inaccurate sword trail.

 

[IntelliHeath1]

False Alert. Apparently the stage glitched on me.

 

[RonNewcomb]

And to round out the FE clone trio, I have Lucina.

The verdict...isn't good. The patch of course made her safer, but she's even worse compared to Marth now. All of her normals, except for f-tilt, are only as safe as Marth's sourspots (and f-tilt is only as safe as Marth's tipper f-tilt). In a couple instances it's a bit safer than Marth's sourspots but it's still less safe than Marth's tippers now.

Thank you for the findings, but I disagree with your analysis. At tipper range safety comes primarily from spacing not frame advantage. Both characters are already safe from a good portion of the cast just by virtue of position. It's when you're cuddled up next to your opponent that frame-based safety is a big deal. Which Lucina has now taken from him. Marth's sourspots are now less safe on block and/or give less reward on hit than her everything, at that close-in range.

That's a big buff for Lucina, not because she's numerically a better character, but because she's finally a different character. He wants to space while she's better in your face... especially with those extra 2f of shieldstun added across the board. This hitlag fix means she's no longer a strictly inferior clone.

 

[Kerenthar]

It is me or now Pikachu inflicts more damage with the rolling jolt instead of the aerial?

 

[ksizl4life]

Kirby Ice Breath has the hitboxes moved forward slightly. The 6% hitbox angle was changed 40 -> 30, bkb 50 -> 40, size 7 -> 7.5.
Kirby aerial side-b 2 wkb 20 -> 50, 2nd hit hitboxes changed in priority to make the 17% hitbox a targeted sweetspot (similar to the previous sheik fair change)
Ditto on the grounded version of Kirby side-b 2. (sweespot)
Kirby had some frame speed multiplier added to make somethign unknown 5 frames faster. No clue.

Ike counter #3 kbg 100 -> 70, bkb 48 -> 90
Ike Eruption
Ike Eruption #2 uncharged does 5% from 1%, the hitboxes last 2 more frames, and the move ends 4 frames faster.
Ike Eruption #2 charged initial windboxes last 2 frames longer and are adjusted backwards a tiny bit; later ones last 3 frames longer total, move ends 4 frames faster
Ike Eruption #2 max charg initial windboxes last 2 frames longer and are adjusted backwards a tiny bit; later ones last 3 frames longer total, move ends 2 frames faster
Ike Eruption #3 uncharged sweetspot size 7.0-> 8.5, adjusted upwards, first hitbox lasts 10 frames from 12, second hitbox lasts 15 frames from 12
Ike Eruption #3 charged sweetspot size 8.0 -> 10.0, adjsuted upwards, first hitbox lasts 14 frames from 16, second hitbox lasts 19 frames from 16
Ike Eruption #3 max charged sweetspot size 10-> 12.5, adjusted upwards, sourspot size 15 -> 16, adjusted upwards, first hitbox lasts 14 frames from 16, second hitbox lasts 19 frames from 16

Hey Thinkaman, first off, thanks for all the work you put in detailing this patch changes. Zucco and I are working on the patch notes videos, like we've done for previous patches on VitaminZK YT channel, basically detailing everything in video form, and comparing from 1.1.0 to 1.1.1. We'll be crediting you, Shaya and Smashboards for the info.

But we're stuck on a few things. We're not seeing any change with Kirby's air Side B 2(or the ground version) between both patches. Do you know of a better way to test it to show a difference?

I also don't see a difference in percent with Ike's Neutral B 2, Tempest. Your notes say it does 5 damage now, increased from 1%. But in 1.1.10, it does 5%, so there was no difference in the new patch.

Any help with these? Thanks!

 

[Karsticles]

And they'll never get close to buff Jiggly...

More shieldstun is a Jigglypuff buff.

 

[Methacrylate]

It is me or now Pikachu inflicts more damage with the rolling jolt instead of the aerial?

That would be placebo. All changes for Pikachu in the data are stated in the OP... his only changes are the universal changes.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

But we're stuck on a few things. We're not seeing any change with Kirby's air Side B 2(or the ground version) between both patches. Do you know of a better way to test it to show a difference?

I also don't see a difference in percent with Ike's Neutral B 2, Tempest. Your notes say it does 5 damage now, increased from 1%. But in 1.1.10, it does 5%, so there was no difference in the new patch.

Kirby's Side B 2 startup was reduced on both air and ground. As for Ike's tempest damage, it is indeed 5% uncharged on both versions.

I've been finding a lot more changes to custom moves in the last few days, if you're making a video detailing everything, I'll let you have the info now. I wasn't going to post it until @LordWilliam1234 and I had frame counted the differences.

: Down B 3 damage increased. 8 to 10% on initial hit, 8 to 12 on final hit. Note that Dr. Mario has the same move and his changes are already in the OP. If my Hex is on point, Knockback growth on final hit reduced from 120 to 70. Base increased from 65 to 100 for both characters
: Neutral B 2 and 3 also have reduced endlag. Data suggests that the counter activation on each also has FAF change of 66 to 61, but this is impossible for Neutral 3 which has no counterattack.
: Neutral B 2 endlag reduced. Startup unaffected.
: Side B 2 endlag reduced. Down B 3 startup reduced. Endlag also reduced.
: Neutral B 3 startup reduced, endlag and total frames increased.
: Neutral B 2 max charge damage increased 19 to 20%. It was conspicuously dropped to 19 last patch, this is a reversion.
: Neutral B 3 Max charge pushes Samus back substantially farther - especially when performed in the air.
: Neutral B 3 endlag reduced on max charge. I also think uncharged is reduced by just a single frame, but I don't trust my eyes well enough for a verdict.
: Neutral B 2 startup reduced. Endlag also reduced significantly. Side B 2 startup reduced on both air and ground versions.
: Down B 2 startup reduced. This is separate from the endlag reduction. The OP says the endlag reduction is 5 frames, but I feel like that's incorrect in terms of total frames
: Side B 3 endlag reduced. This applies to both the forward and back kick animations. Startup unaffected.
: Neutral 3 earliest point at which you can release is later into the attack. Endlag is unchanged for charged versions of the move..
: Neutral 2 Projectiles travel faster at all angles, including when thrown as an item. This is in addition to the reduced endlag noted in the OP. Damage on direct hit increased 8 to 10. Indirect (splash) damage increased 6 to 8%.

 

[Doval]

Thank you for the findings, but I disagree with your analysis. At tipper range safety comes primarily from spacing not frame advantage. Both characters are already safe from a good portion of the cast just by virtue of position. It's when you're cuddled up next to your opponent that frame-based safety is a big deal. Which Lucina has now taken from him. Marth's sourspots are now less safe on block and/or give less reward on hit than her everything, at that close-in range.

That's a big buff for Lucina, not because she's numerically a better character, but because she's finally a different character. He wants to space while she's better in your face... especially with those extra 2f of shieldstun added across the board. This hitlag fix means she's no longer a strictly inferior clone.

Frame advantage still matters even with spaced attacks. Having negative advantage means acting second. Even if the opponent can't guarantee a punish, acting first means they can approach you before you can act and force you to read his move. Having frame advantage would let you continue to pressure the opponent.

Lucina is still strictly worse. Lucina has 1 more frame of advantage on a handful of moves and breaks even on the rest. They're both so unsafe up close that they're both going to get punished in the same scenarios. However Marth's tippers have even more frame advantage than his sourspots (which wasn't the case before), all his tippers are safer than Lucina's and he still hits harder/kills earlier with them. To top it all off, Roy's considerably safer and stronger than her up close too.

 

[ksizl4life]

Kirby's Side B 2 startup was reduced on both air and ground. As for Ike's tempest damage, it is indeed 5% uncharged on both versions.

I've been finding a lot more changes to custom moves in the last few days, if you're making a video detailing everything, I'll let you have the info now. I wasn't going to post it until @LordWilliam1234 and I had frame counted the differences.

: Down B 3 damage increased. 8 to 10% on initial hit, 8 to 12 on final hit. Note that Dr. Mario has the same move and his changes are already in the OP. If my Hex is on point, Knockback growth on final hit reduced from 120 to 70. Base increased from 65 to 100 for both characters
: Neutral B 2 and 3 also have reduced endlag. Data suggests that the counter activation on each also has FAF change of 66 to 61, but this is impossible for Neutral 3 which has no counterattack.
: Neutral B 2 endlag reduced. Startup unaffected.
: Side B 2 endlag reduced. Down B 3 startup reduced. Endlag also reduced.
: Neutral B 3 startup reduced, endlag and total frames increased.
: Neutral B 2 max charge damage increased 19 to 20%. It was conspicuously dropped to 19 last patch, this is a reversion.
: Neutral B 3 Max charge pushes Samus back substantially farther - especially when performed in the air.
: Neutral B 3 endlag reduced on max charge. I also think uncharged is reduced by just a single frame, but I don't trust my eyes well enough for a verdict.
: Neutral B 2 startup reduced. Endlag also reduced significantly. Side B 2 startup reduced on both air and ground versions.
: Down B 2 startup reduced. This is separate from the endlag reduction. The OP says the endlag reduction is 5 frames, but I feel like that's incorrect in terms of total frames
: Side B 3 endlag reduced. This applies to both the forward and back kick animations. Startup unaffected.
: Neutral 3 earliest point at which you can release is later into the attack. Endlag is unchanged for charged versions of the move..
: Neutral 2 Projectiles travel faster at all angles, including when thrown as an item. This is in addition to the reduced endlag noted in the OP. Damage on direct hit increased 8 to 10. Indirect (splash) damage increased 6 to 8%.

Thanks for all the data! Me and Zucco are going through them now. Link's change is incorrect though. Does 19% in both versions. I'll update if I find more inconsistencies.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Does 19% in both versions. I'll update if I find more inconsistencies.

...adding to list of character differences between 3DS and Wii U versions.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

One more change.

: Up B 2 startup on second push reduced. Robin is now sent far higher vertically by the move

This is probably all I can spot. Many differences still exist in the data that haven't been interpreted. Differences to Duck Hunt's can and side special attacks, Toon Link's wait and walk (hylian shield?), Villager's watering cans, Little Mac's custom KO punches, and Olimar's aerials, some of G&W's attacks and his buckets, and more. What a messy update.

 

[Tinkerer]

Seems Villager's recovery got nerfed further:
https://youtu.be/eQO2OSqYdW4

http://smashboards.com/threads/villager-in-1-1-1.419115/#post-20237135

 

[Teshie U]

Is there a list somewhere being compiled of multi-hit moves that can't be unshielded between hits?

 

[-Grimm-]

What does QCI mean? I've recently picked up Ryu but I've never heard of the term and couldn't find it anywhere on the internet

 

[ぱみゅ]

Quarter-Circle Input I guess?
If it is it's nonsensical. To me is much better numerical annotations are like 236A.

 

[Plague von Karma]

Not only was Roy not nerfed, but the universal shield stun increase benefits him greatly and makes a lot of his moves safe on shield. t3h ph1r3 rises.

For me, Roy feels a lot faster, and a lot more like a Melee Character (as if he didn't already). I like how he has changed with the shieldstun. I have to say though - the Marth VS Roy dilemma is rising because of this. It's a matter of who strikes first right now.

 

[Plague von Karma]

What does QCI mean? I've recently picked up Ryu but I've never heard of the term and couldn't find it anywhere on the internet

WHOOPS, double post. 'scuse me, but I gotta answer this. I'm a Ryu main, so I know it. QCI can be considered Normal Hadoken or Tatsumaki Senpuyaku. Most likely the latter given that Shaku and Norm are so similar and are en given other abbreviations in the SF Community.

 

[Smash Arena]

Roy's our boy.

 

[Equin0x]

Has the 1 frame nerf on rolls been confirmed, or is it still unsure?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Has the 1 frame nerf on rolls been confirmed, or is it still unsure?

It's confirmed. The only confusion was that the code for one of the rolls was put into the old spot for air dodges.