Official Mario Enigma Machine [1.1.1] Patch Notes

[ARGHETH]

The OP should put "SHIELD STUN WAS INCREASED MARTH WASN'T NERFED" in giant letters next to Marth

 

[Nobie]

There are a lot of things weird about Mewtwo's data from Dantarion. Keep in mind I'm still very amateur at interpreting the data, so any expert response would be very welcome.

1) Rolls were nerfed again supposedly, but I noticed that one of Mewtwo's "rolls" lists his FAF in 29. I tested both forward and back rolls in training mode at 1/4 speed and both of them finish at the same time. It might be his air dodge because that seems to be what's affected other characters, except Mewtwo's air dodge invincibility was never 15 frames to begin with, let alone 14. What is it actually referring to?

2) There are a bunch of attacks listed with a damage value of 7, but Mewtwo has no attacks that are 7 base damage. What could this be?

 

[Astra Waifucon]

I didn't say remove custom changes, I just said change the colour. Most people don't really care about custom changes because they're irrelevant now in most regions. But we should still be able to see the custom changes, hence changing the colour solves that problem

 

[Deleted member]

Shield Breaker still functions generally the same due to how a lot of moves (including Shield Breaker) have higher shield stun now. It wasn't nerfed.

It's not that bad, I suppose (although shield stun is far from an exact replacement for shield damage), but the main thing I'm upset about is that Samus Custom.

 

[Hygaro26]

Edit:

This post was reserved for Marth changes. I fell for the placebo.

He apparently wasn't changed at all except for a Shield Breaker shield damage nerf. So now it's... just a kill move? What was the point of that? It's literally named after its ability to break shields. They should have focused on fixing his moveset.

• He has many blind spots due to missing frames and small hitboxes (both jabs, ftilt, utilt, fsmash, fair, uair, dair, up b).
• He has bad moves (Dash Attack, Dsmash, and DB1) that need attention.
• Dancing Blade doesn't connect properly (DB2 goes right under their feet).
• His throws don't do enough damage and his "combo" throws have the combination of too much knockback and too much end lag for follow-ups.
• His autocancel windows are crap.

This isn't even the half of it. He's still a character that while heavily buffed compared to 1.0.0, relies way too much on kill power and rage. Maybe next patch.

How would it JUST be a kill move? Shields as a whole were nerfed.

 

[Thinktron]

It's not that bad, I suppose (although shield stun is far from an exact replacement for shield damage), but the main thing I'm upset about is that Samus Custom.

If anything shield breaker is better now, Plus, dancing blade in theory should be a lot safer as well, especially the multi hit finisher.

H Hygaro26 Ummm that message was wrote way before these changes where found

 

[topspin1617]

Some people are actually COMPLAINING about increased shield stun?!?

Hasn't lack of shield stun been one of the targets of the "Smash 4 is too defensive to be competitive" crowd since release?

Holy hell I'm glad I'm not Sakurai or whoever makes these changes, players would have me literally ripping my hair out of my head.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

It's not that bad, I suppose (although shield stun is far from an exact replacement for shield damage), but the main thing I'm upset about is that Samus Custom.

Why? knockback growth stat for full charge was reduced by 3 points, which doesn't do much at all to offset the damage increase, greater base knockback and lower launch angle. It's a buff every which way you look at it.

 

[Shog]

Some people are actually COMPLAINING about increased shield stun?!?

Hasn't lack of shield stun been one of the targets of the "Smash 4 is too defensive to be competitive" crowd since release?

Holy hell I'm glad I'm not Sakurai or whoever makes these changes, players would have me literally ripping my hair out of my head.

That's why I sometimes feel hate towards the competitive smasher is justified because they can't make up their minds at all. If Sakurai would listen to the great whining of Smashboards... what kind of game would we get? I mean I cringe at the threads about how the people here would make things "better", how arrogant.

(Note that I am only ranting because people literally said time and time again how shields are OP etc. What is the problem now again? I for once enjoy being able to attack on Shield with Jigglypuff for example :/ )

 

[DungeonMaster]

: Fair landing lag reduced.
I can provide pre-patch footage. I need somebody else to provide the post-patch to compare to so we can have video evidence.

No need, I'm sure anyone can tell the landing lag is much reduced! Are you sure about d-air? 1-2 frames on d-air would be quite significant for combos.

 

[Kurri ★]

The fact that Shield Breaker had it's intended purpose nerfed and the fact that ANYTHING about Melee Charge Shot was weakened disgusts me..

Shield Breaker nerf was needed considering how much easier it is to break shields now.

 

[FairyLip]

Seconded. Also, seeing Pallykins getting her best move nerfed hurts, man.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

No need, I'm sure anyone can tell the landing lag is much reduced! Are you sure about d-air? 1-2 frames on d-air would be quite significant for combos.

I'm certain Fair is the only move of hers with altered landing lag. Dair is unchanged.

 

[Methacrylate]

Shaya , in the OP you have the universal change to tech get up attacks which I assume are the DownAttackU and DownAttackD in the dantarion data. I am also noticing the same universal change to SlipAttack, is this considered a tech get up as well? This would be an attack out of a trip right?

I tested the Palutena lightweight glitch on a 1.1.0 3DS and was not able to perform the glitch. I believe it was removed in an earlier patch, we are just noticing it now because of the custom emphasis of this patch.

There was a change to explosive flame:
Initial hitbox size change from 3.7->4.8
Initial hitbox damage change from 0.6->0.8

Final hitbox size change from 14.0->15.5
Final hitbox damage change from 4.0->4.2

There are some changes to the multi hits between the initial and final hits, maybe its the placement of these hitboxes?

Edit:
Bowser Jr. cannonball has some changes:
KBG increase 80->85 sweet spot
KBG increase 60->65 sour spot
Size increase 4.5->5.5 for both sweet and sour spots

 

[meleebrawler]

Seconded. Also, seeing Pallykins getting her best move nerfed hurts, man.

Not on Omegas/Final Destination.

 

[fenyx4]

Ooh, I can actually help in one of these patch-note threads without actually owning the Super Smash Bros. 4 game(s) (yet)! ^_^

Greninja has 2 0.66x frame speed multipliers added to subactions that previous had no code. (So not attacks or such) It's currently impossible for me to tell what these might be, other than that they must be something obscure. No other changes.

Edit: Ike has multiple changes. Coming back to him later. So does Kirby.

Courtesy of a Reddit post by the Redditor AshtonAnchors, apparently an animation/sub-action for Greninja's second victory pose, where it "does a few chops splashing water, and then a ninja pose," has been altered in a truly metagame-changing way...instead of water droplets solely flying to the left, there are now some water droplets that fly to the right as well..

Super Smash Bros. 4, Version 1.1.0 scene (old): http://gfycat.com/WastefulInsidiousCusimanse
Super Smash Bros. 4, Version 1.1.1 scene (currently new): http://gfycat.com/RepulsiveUniformBarasingha

Um...well, at least Greninja didn't get a visual nerf?
(Just how do they notice these things?)
--Funny Reddit comment 1 - https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...th_the_important_buffs_robins_victory/cvjlmm9
--Funny Reddit comment 2 - https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...th_the_important_buffs_robins_victory/cvjllzz

 

[Dinoman96]

Hey guys, another thing regarding Palutena's customs: Explosive Flame seemingly no longer knocks people out of their shield on the last hit. Played it against someone else recently. People can now completely block it.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Got Ryu's 1.11 frame data completed.

By comparison, Ryu's 1.10 numbers that I put together.

I labelled the special moves wrong in 1.10 and I forgot which ones are which...but the important thing here is his normals. That n-air/b-air frame advantage...

 

[Steam]

Some people are actually COMPLAINING about increased shield stun?!?

Hasn't lack of shield stun been one of the targets of the "Smash 4 is too defensive to be competitive" crowd since release?

Holy hell I'm glad I'm not Sakurai or whoever makes these changes, players would have me literally ripping my hair out of my head.

Yes, I think increased shield stun is bad for the game and will further stifle the meta into safe pressure options. It works out in melee because of the mobility options it has to work around the shield stun.

 

[GP2]

Some people are actually COMPLAINING about increased shield stun?!?

Hasn't lack of shield stun been one of the targets of the "Smash 4 is too defensive to be competitive" crowd since release?

Holy hell I'm glad I'm not Sakurai or whoever makes these changes, players would have me literally ripping my hair out of my head.

It'd be fine if there was a mild increase in shield stun but we're talking more shield stun than melee! I think that's a bit too much

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

Wow, haven't been here in awhile and forgot there was a 1.1.0. Could you link to the previous patch notes? I found the 1.08 topic, anyway...

 

[Shog]

Yes, I think increased shield stun is bad for the game and will further stifle the meta into safe pressure options. It works out in melee because of the mobility options it has to work around the shield stun.

True because before the patch >>unsafe<< pressure options against a BETTER shield was much better right? Also further stiftle the meta into safe pressure? So unsafe pressure was the metagame until now, that sounds really stupid

(Special Note: If the nerf of the defensive options is indeed a bad thing, would you mind explain, as you call it bad for the game, not the competitive metagame, no for the WHOLE GAME , WHY having the "OP Shield" is better than not having it?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Wow, haven't been here in awhile and forgot there was a 1.1.0. Could you link to the previous patch notes? I found the 1.08 topic, anyway...

Here.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yes, I think increased shield stun is bad for the game and will further stifle the meta into safe pressure options. It works out in melee because of the mobility options it has to work around the shield stun.

Isn't this also bad in a single player standpoint? This means that you can't safely shield yourself against Master Core anymore if you have yet to complete the higher intensity levels.

 

[Saviorr]

Doesn't the increased shield stun allow for characters with bad grabs to be more viable?
It was too easy to just sit in shield against characters who you knew had bad grabs.

I only hope this doesn't make projectiles spamming more viable...

 

[Dcas]

Mind boggling that some people is arguing about shield being nerfed, if these numbers reflects on gameplay this change could change the meta a bit.

I would be very happy if we get a more agressive sm4sh.

 

[[Deuce]]

I was indifferent to the shield changes because I had grown to appreciate the responsiveness of shielding in smash 4. When I played Melee recently after being out of the competitive scene for a few years, shielding felt really clunky as I sat there with my fingers off any button and I'm still shielding.

However having looked at the frame data I'm quite satisfied; its one thing for shield to be able to punish whiffed smashes or tilts. Its another thing for it to be able to punish unfinished/cancelled jabs (hated that)

 

[Dantarion]

I love this entire argument.

"Making shields better would make the game even more campy! Everyone will just sit in shield"

"Making shields worse is going to make the game even more campy! Everyone will camp even more because they can't just shield!"

 

[Xygonn]

It's not that bad, I suppose (although shield stun is far from an exact replacement for shield damage), but the main thing I'm upset about is that Samus Custom.

Melee Charge shot got a huge buff overall. Try it with rage. The new base knockback and increased damage is a direct buff. The reduced KBG is commensurate with the increased damage. It kills mario with rage from the edge of final destination at like 43%

 

[Faltrazz]

I don't know if this has been brought up but frame cancelling still works. It's worth bringing up because it's a glitch.

 

[LancerStaff]

I love this entire argument.

"Making shields better would make the game even more campy! Everyone will just sit in shield"

"Making shields worse is going to make the game even more campy! Everyone will camp even more because they can't just shield!"

As stupid as it sounds, both sides are right. Some characters will camp more, some less. The net change is hard to determine... It honestly could go either way.

 

[Kurri ★]

True because before the patch >>unsafe<< pressure options against a BETTER shield was much better right? Also further stiftle the meta into safe pressure? So unsafe pressure was the metagame until now, that sounds really stupid

(Special Note: If the nerf of the defensive options is indeed a bad thing, would you mind explain, as you call it bad for the game, not the competitive metagame, no for the WHOLE GAME , WHY having the "OP Shield" is better than not having it?

I'm sure there are a few other problems, but the most glaring one is how the increase in shield-stun affects heavies. Shield was the main, if not, the only way a heavy could safely approach and attack and with shield-stun being increased they lose that.

Personally, I like the increase, it really helps out a lot of characters, but heavies were shafted hard.

 

[JB333]

The increased shield stun could be bad for the game, or it could be good, but I think we need to see how it plays out and how it affects the meta before we assume anything. BH5 is using version 1.1.0, so we'll have to see how it affects the meta in national play after this.

 

[[Deuce]]

I'm sure there are a few other problems, but the most glaring one is how the increase in shield-stun affects heavies. Shield was the main, if not, the only way a heavy could safely approach and attack and with shield-stun being increased they lose that.

Personally, I like the increase, it really helps out a lot of characters, but heavies were shafted hard.

I think its the way they implemented the additional shield stun. They added a base shield stun as well as a increased damage multiplier; whereas if they just increased the damage multiplier a bit more it'd be much better for heavies (and would make more intuitive sense too, you'd likely flinch harder when being hit by a hard hit)

 

[E-Mann]

Overall, this change definitely sparked more controversy than it should have...

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Shaya There's an issue with our interpretation of Wario's Garlic Breath (custom neutral 3). Comparing pre and post patch, the new version clearly has faster startup but more endlag frames. Dantarion's dump only points out the differences in Wario's animation. He leans forward and then back faster in pre-patch, but only now does the hitbox for the move match the animation.

 

[[Deuce]]

I think the OP should just have confirmed changes. There's an equation there, as well as roll changes that have question marks next to them.

 

[ENKER]

Could someone help explain why Yoshi's Dair locks people in their shields while Mega Man's Usmash doesn't?

 

[Xygonn]

I'm sure there are a few other problems, but the most glaring one is how the increase in shield-stun affects heavies. Shield was the main, if not, the only way a heavy could safely approach and attack and with shield-stun being increased they lose that.

Personally, I like the increase, it really helps out a lot of characters, but heavies were shafted hard.

I think it makes life much better for heavies. Landing was the number one problem because people could just wait in shield. Now they can throw out a huge damage aerial and the improved shield stun will keep them safe. Fast characters that has lots of safe options on shield get nothing. Heavies get a bunch of new moves that used to get punished on shield that are now safe.

 

[DarthGogeta]

I can't confirm with clear cut evidence but Ganondorf's Up Smash appears to have a different trajectory on the sourspot. Could be placebo though...