Mario Boards: General Discussion

[A2ZOMG]

YoshQ I think could be the best Luigi. His style I feel is more precise than Boss's.

 

[Kanzaki]

Like for reals.. do you hate Boss or something?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Quite the contrary I love Boss. However I definitely feel he's a bit overhyped. His playstyle generally speaking isn't practical to emulate, and he definitely has some issues with optimal move choice. This goes for both Melee and Brawl to be honest. Boss has good technical skill and mindgames, but he could definitely improve if he played smarter and simply knew how to pick better options.

Boss's Mario/Doc vs Chudat's ICs in Melee is probably the most obvious example, where it's a matchup he technically wins, and where he isn't really that much less skilled than Chudat, but he loses because he makes bad choices.

Just because Boss is a cool guy and all, that doesn't mean he's immune to criticism. In fact I'm more or less ashamed that so few people really care for Boss enough on these boards that they will point out his flaws to him so that he can improve as a player.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Guys, what in your opinion is a good damage to fell content dying at? And i mean in a general character sense, or more an average, I dont mean Snake or G&W or something where their Kill Power is ********, I mean the average kill power?

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Usually at like around 130-140%
Anyways, back from my tourny. My Yoshi MU knowledge had improved by A LOT! I don't really care if he hits me with eggs anymore

 

[Matador]

Generally speaking, I'm content dying around 150 or so percent.

It's match-up dependent too, though.

 

[Matt07]

I'd say 150% is safe, depending on the move Mario can Momentum Cancel horizontally a LOT better than vertically.

 

[Z'zgashi]

150%? Hmmm, k, guess Im still stuck with my heavy weight mentality, good to know, thanks.

I played some wifi matches with Mario today, it seemed like I died on average around 130-140 though, but maybe it was due to lag and the fact that I was fighting DK... I did alright, I think I lost more than I won, but I never play wifi, so im content with the fact that I won some. :3c

And I couldn't get any recorded, every match lasted at least a good 5 mins and we didnt have hacks on either side :/

 

[A2ZOMG]

150%? Hmmm, k, guess Im still stuck with my heavy weight mentality, good to know, thanks.

I played some wifi matches with Mario today, it seemed like I died on average around 130-140 though, but maybe it was due to lag and the fact that I was fighting DK... I did alright, I think I lost more than I won, but I never play wifi, so im content with the fact that I won some. :3c

And I couldn't get any recorded, every match lasted at least a good 5 mins and we didnt have hacks on either side :/

Honestly surviving to obnoxiously high percents is universally easy for every character in the game. Except for like...Olimar and Ivysaur tbh. You don't need to be a heavyweight to take hits well, having solid spacing + DI also can make you extremely hard to kill.

Being a heavyweight is mostly overrated unless you're Snake imo, whose grenades change the point of the game. Also the worst overall durability in the game belongs to Bowser, in that he's the easiest character in the game to kill safely.

 

[Inferno3044]

Bowser still lives to obnoxiously high percents even if he is easy to juggle. DK and D3 can also live to really high percents. Snake definitely seems like a fatass because of the grenades.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Everyone besides like...Olimar and Ivysaur should live to obnoxiously high percents in the majority of matchups. Even Jiggs mostly shouldn't have a problem surviving long given that she almost never has to commit to getting hit by a kill move in most matchups. The fact Bowser lives to obnoxiously high percents isn't special nor does it make him in any way durable. His high weight if anything makes his durability worse by making him easier to combo, since it means you don't have to work as hard to push Bowser's damage past 100%. It doesn't matter how much damage he takes when you never have to let him get back on his feet and when generic juggle/edgeguard kill setups are extremely easy to do on him. Most characters don't actually have a problem killing Bowser at around 130% (landing a charged U-smash on Bowser as Mario isn't hard, and can very realistically kill Bowser at around 125).

Donkey Kong is kinda in the same situation as Bowser, except his recovery options are semi-existent. D3 has somewhat existent recovery and landing options as well, but also is harder to approach than either DK or Bowser.

Snake has the best deal out of the bunch when it comes to durability. While his landing options are still bad and his recovery isn't outstanding, he has the best ones out of all the heavyweights, and has grenades to make capitalizing on him more complicated. It can often be favorable for Snake to trade with a juggle by blowing himself up with a nade simply because he's far less likely to get killed by it than his opponent in most cases.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

It really depends too :/
Against Yoshis, I live up to 180-190 if I play really safe, but against snakes I die really early regardless of how safe I play or not.

 

[Lord Chair]

upbing diddy's upb

mario broken wtf ban this character

 

[steep]

YoshQ I think could be the best Luigi. His style I feel is more precise than Boss's.

Going back to this:

I don't know if I would say he's the best overall. I think YoshQ is possibly the best at landing up b kills. But players like Big Lou and Boss seem to have more ability to beat MU's where Luigi is at a large disadvantage or where up b kills aren't really a viable option.

Although, YoshQ's MM against Red Ryu's Lucario on his youtube page was so sick....

 

[Matador]

Boss is pretty damn good at landing upB kills...

YoshQ is too, but if there were a way to measure it, I wouldn't say one is much further than the other in that department, lol.

 

[Coolwhip]

My top 5 best luigi players......

1.Big lou

2.Boss

3.Jbrandrew

4.Yoshq

5.????

^ Don't know who's in 5th place. Would had been samboner if he didn't quit brawl. Such a legit/godlike weegee.

 

[Inferno3044]

Boss is pretty damn good at landing upB kills...

I can support that statement. He UpB'd me 4 times in a set. Btw, I don't get how Mario vs. Luigi is even. The MU tends to have a lot of trades and Luigi benefits from trades in that MU much more than Mario does.

Btw apparently Mario is the worst character in the game according to M2K

 

[Fire!]

I'm pretty sure he's been saying that for the last 2 years.

 

[Matador]

I can support that statement. He UpB'd me 4 times in a set. Btw, I don't get how Mario vs. Luigi is even. The MU tends to have a lot of trades and Luigi benefits from trades in that MU much more than Mario does.

Btw apparently Mario is the worst character in the game according to M2K

I used to think Luigi was one of Mario's hardest match-ups...and technically it is if you play it incorrectly...

Basically, you have to camp the balls off him. Any aggression is pretty much punished heavily, and you can't follow up much of anything...We outrange him with a few moves, beat his aerials with Usmash, and do silly things to him offstage, and have better mobility. Just make him have to work to get to you.

Lol, and yeah...M2K has thought that for awhile. Not surprised though...he's MK. Every Mario that he's ever fought has probably been cake for him.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

My top 5 best luigi players......

1.Big lou

2.Boss

3.Jbrandrew

4.Yoshq

5.????

^ Don't know who's in 5th place. Would had been samboner if he didn't quit brawl. Such a legit/godlike weegee.

big lou pretty much quit luigi for a better character... pretty much his entire region did.

matador is right about that luigi MU, you pretty much have to play as gay as possible against luigi.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

if Luigi didn't have such a good nair, i'd say it's a bit even

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I think it's pretty even now... you just can't be aggressive.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Luigi's N-air isn't even half your problems. That move is easy to deal with. Just U-tilt.

The matchup is only really hard for Mario on wifi just because it's impossible to space correctly. Offline it's pretty close. Just play as gay as possible. Space him all day. Crouching is also pretty underused in this matchup on both sides, though I'd say Mario gets more out of it when you consider Luigi's pretty lame air mobility.

It really depends too :/
Against Yoshis, I live up to 180-190 if I play really safe, but against snakes I die really early regardless of how safe I play or not.

I survive til 180 quite often against Snake players. It's not hard. You just have to make a point of avoiding his U-tilt when it's able to kill you. SDI his N-air and D-air consistently. His other aerials are fairly easy to avoid on reaction except for maybe B-air if you're forced to recover low. Just in general if you don't let Snake do bull**** to you, surviving long against him is the same as surviving long against anyone else.

Actually vs Yoshi, I'm personally in the habit of surviving in the 200s against him.

 

[Kanzaki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVMws6GwzPI

Me for 5th Luigi?!? Did beat Paper who's rank 10 in SoCal xD

 

[Famous]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t6YWlBvRDk&feature=channel_video_title

-_^ Only a friendly tho...

 

[Jimmyfosho]

needs more mario imo

 

[steep]

Matador and 2Fast i wanted to play you today i've been looking forward to it! maybe tomorrow.

Btw i have some nice matches (even though they're wifi) of me today. I got a boss-like shoryuken on Dark Peach with my weegee. It made me feel so pro.

FF air dodge through his read up tilt-buffered up b on landing....

 

[Matador]

We'll play, lol. No worries. Imma be on wifi plenty this week.

And yeah! Definitely upload...we need more Mario vids, wifi or otherwise.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

If you can survive till 180% against snake, they're doing something terribly wrong...

 

[Inferno3044]

If you can survive till 180% against snake, they're doing something terribly wrong...

I was thinking the exact same thing. It sounds to me that he isn't playing good people. Or that A2 has been trolling us all this time and has just done a really bad job doing so.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I would get wifi matches uploaded but i don't like being judged based on wifi matches lol

 

[Matador]

I just wanna see matches, lol.

Couldn't care less about judging. I learn stuff from most of you guys anyways.

 

[Matt07]

Lol I might enter a WiFi tourney this weekend see how I do.

 

[SKidd]

Man, why do so many people use their hacked wiis in tourneys where you guys live?




No one does that here.




And yep... Looks like same old Mario boards.

 

[Inferno3044]

It's mainly used for infinite replay.

 

[Kanzaki]

I personally hate all the hacks, it looks too messy imo.. however infinite replay IS nice.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

I only have the infinite replay and music hacks on my wii

 

[A2ZOMG]

If you can survive till 180% against snake, they're doing something terribly wrong...

I was thinking the exact same thing. It sounds to me that he isn't playing good people. Or that A2 has been trolling us all this time and has just done a really bad job doing so.

No, you can definitely survive that long against good Snake players. I believe I once did against Bigfoot's Snake in tournament.

If all you get hit by are grenades, DA, and F-tilt, that can happen very easily (and generally, it is my opinion that Snake players are playing right if they aren't trying to force kills, but simply trying to rack damage to get the lead. Snake's U-tilt isn't a move he should be trying to spam or force, since it's very easy to deliberately avoid. He does better if he simply focuses on pressuring you with the above three moves). As I said, all you need to do is simply make a point of not getting hit by his U-tilt and his aerials. He doesn't have the mobility to really force you to get hit by anything, he can only punish you for committing to something unsafe. Usually what this means in a real match is that you can generally make it very difficult for him to land more than 2-3 moves by just spacing well.

In general you're doing something wrong if YOU let Snake kill you early. Even on a stage with small blastzones, it's perfectly reasonable to survive long against Snake if you simply space extremely well. He only kills you when you let him, and you want to avoid larger blastzones against him since he benefits a lot more from them than you do where he still has the potential to kill you early for ****ing up, while you lose a lot of reliable KO potential. Now if you're playing someone like Ganon against him...good luck avoiding his U-tilt.

I'm always serious by the way. And Juu generally agrees with me when it comes to Snake. He's just not nearly as active as me on these boards.

 

[Juushichi]

NEOH is weird. It seems like they still play, just not together. They pretty much only seem to play in groups of 2-3 and at tournaments.

As for Dayton, I haven't seen Fizzle since the last SiiS, and Scribz spends pretty much all his time on WoW. Plus with all the stuff that's been going on lately, I highly doubt Scribz will get back into the scene.
Everyone else quit or went to Marvel.

Speaking of OUGA, are you going to their tournament? I'm thinking about it.

That's sad because I always thought Iska was extremely talented. And I will assume that you're talking about the June OUGA in Columbus, yes? The one Composer and Squid are heading to.

Well, I am since it's just a twenty-five minute ride up there. Though Keister usually houses people the previous night.

As for M2K, yeah. He feels rather emphatically that Mario is the worst character in the game. Or at least that what I got when I talked to him about it years ago at a Nope's.

I think the 5th best Luigi is probably still Crash (from KY), even though he doesn't play very much anymore.

So, I'll be in Cincinnati for SiiS5. Seems like steep and I might be the only Mario's there and steep being the only main since I haven't gone solo Mario (or Mario at all really) in months.

Unfortunately mars, I'm getting my ride from out of town and took the last spot. I don't know if anyone else from Columbus is going. I don't think so though. Quivo never got back to me.

At least I get to play Shugo some.

As for Snake stuff, in terms of Snake stuff... it's kind of hard to really put where I stand on it. It... really doesn't feel like it should be this hard to get in on Snake. With good, smart spacing it's better for sure but when you get hit it's so demoralizing.

It feels like you have to reconstruct yourself every time you lose momentum against him. It's so ****ing draining playing against Snake. I'd rather play against IC's and DDD every time than face a Snake tbh. And as for living against Snake, it's more like this (I'll use quality of player):

Usual Mario death % vs Snake %:
Random: 180% barring a dumb mistake. vs 170%, stock lead or even.
Moose (OH Marth/Snake): 130-150 vs 100-ish, usually stocks tied, can flux.
Infern/64: 110-135 vs like 80-100, stock deficit.

Most of the snake mains here (Infern, Nope, 64, Links24) are a higher caliber of player than I and admittedly struggle against Snake in general. I'm not a good source for the Snake MU from a Mario perspective.

I don't even play Mario vs Snake outside of friendlies now.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, the Snake matchup requires a lot of concentration. It also can be tough when you have to adapt to different playstyles. Usually for me, I lose the Snake matchup when it's against a playstyle I'm not familiar with, or when I don't feel like playing at 100% concentration. Usually when I get killed, it is by really stupid things. I almost feel more than half the time I get killed, it's from either a landmine, C4, Grenade (on a stage or TV where it's hard to see them), or a F-air. It's the kind of stupid thing where I find everything else too easy to see coming. But my concentration isn't always perfect, so random stupid **** occasionally catches me offguard, and when it doesn't, I usually survive forever. The other half of the time where I DO get killed by Snake's aerials or U-tilt practically always either is the result of a technical error or from me poorly spacing an attack instead of blocking or camping. It's never because I lacked the options to avoid it in the first place (unless I'm playing someone like Ganon or Bowser).

The assumption I have when discussing the Snake matchup though is that when you have all the playstyles figured out, and if you're playing at optimal concentration levels, it mostly isn't hard to pick apart Snake and prevent him from doing a lot of stupid things to you.

Chances are he'll probably kill you at around 140-150 if you only avoid his U-tilt (M2K has several matches against Ally where he survives around this range, and keep in mind MK is one of the lightest characters in the game), while Mario generally should kill him at around 160-170ish with either U-smash or D-smash after a generic juggle setup. If you never get hit by his aerials as well, this is when surviving to 180% is realistic. And I do think it's totally realistic to avoid those moves. It's only obnoxiously tedious to do that if you're also trying to recover from a lost lead.

Generally getting the lead against Snake ***** since you practically never have to get hit by the majority of what he does. He doesn't have the mobility to trick you or to really chase you. He only punishes mistakes really really well, so playing this matchup anything but optimally generally sucks.