Mario Boards: General Discussion

[rPSIvysaur]

How was it held? Round Robin?

 

[Matt07]

Good stuff, Skidd!

As long as you had fun that's all that matters .

 

[Inferno3044]

Wolverine is so good.

 

[JuxtaposeX]

Amaterasu!!

 

[A2ZOMG]

Damn. That's almost 2 years ago. But yeah Mario is bad and I am probably gonna pick up Falco. He is pretty fun to play and I love his jab cancel ****. Only problem is I can't kill for ****. I eventually get people to really high percents and kill with dtilt lol.

D-tilt sucks. Just D-throw -> BDACUS. Or N-air -> U-tilt. Or charge F-smash. Or edgetrap/edgeguard with B-air. All better than using D-tilt.

Especially charging F-smash and B-airing. Seriously, it's incredibly stupidly good. F-smash outranges everything and is a broken edgetrap tool. B-air ***** most airdodges and Falco's legs are invincible while B-airing.

Just don't go to Brinstar as Falco. Brinstar makes Falco low tier like srsly.

 

[vato_break]

im actually inspired to use mario again..

 

[A2ZOMG]

And meh, I never really got into SF in general, but it seems like it's a more technical game, but with less mindgames and such. Hell, I'd say the smash series seems more mindgame oriented than most fighting games (That I've played at least).

No actually, SF is one of the most mindgame oriented competitive games in existence.

SF at its core is elaborate rock paper scissors, with some characters leaning more towards rock, some more towards paper, and some more towards scissors. Only replace rock paper scissors with zoning, rushdown, and grappling.

SF HUGELY requires reads to be good. Yes you have to know tech skill and options, but when two players actually know wtf is going on, who wins depends on who makes the best reads (disregarding skewed matchups of course).

Smash really isn't as mindgame oriented as you think it is. Smash requires reaction time and a certain level of ambition to just initiate conflict significantly more than mindgames especially when you compare it to high level Street Fighter. In Street Fighter...for the most part there is pretty much nothing that is truly 100% guaranteed to always win. In Smash, not so. Smash has some insane tool options that you're just supposed to throw out and fish with until you get reward.

You compare the most successful player in Street Fighter (Daigo) to the most successful player in Brawl (M2K). Daigo does win consistently, and he's both extremely smart and technical, but he often clutches out wins by making insanely hard reads from just figuring out his opponent really really fast (the way Daigo plays, he often literally throws his first match just so that he can build meter and figure out his opponent's playstyle, and then he proceeds to possibly perfect them or get close to that the next two games). M2K on the other hand I feel has been winning more not because he really knows how to adapt to other players that well, but because his insight into the game was just far superior and he developed and perfected the best strategies before anyone else did, and could win that way given that his strategies and use of tools was just beyond insane compared to what anyone else was doing.

M2K also had a time when he dominated Melee for the exact same principles he dominated Brawl. Smash just fundamentally can be exploited really really heavily by just using tools correctly without really using mindgames.

 

[Omari]

@Vato Break: Where did your motivation to resume using Mario come from?

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

To you guys saying MvC3 characters, MODOK.

 

[SKidd]

Yeah, it was round robin.



Thanks Matt.

 

[vato_break]

smashfest yesterday, haha i mean my mario isn't very good but, he's fun lol.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

soo... the matchup chart is up... and apparently we lose against Marth, DDD , and GW harder than metaknight. lul

 

[Matador]

Trying my best not to rage, lmao.

Overall, there's really no reason to. Just little things like MK vs Mario being as hard as PT vs Mario and Wolf vs Mario. And G&W...

 

[Coolwhip]

What's good my brothers!

 

[The Nutz of Norcal Deez]

i hate G&W

 

[Matador]

He's never been too bad for me. Best I've faced is GIMR.

 

[The Nutz of Norcal Deez]

best tools vs G&W are OoS that's about it :\

 

[Matt07]

G&W is a lame match-up .

 

[Coolwhip]

Sounds like we need a g&w match-up thread. Anyone agree?

 

[Matador]

Still don't see it being worse than MK though. Not even AS bad as D3 or Marth.

@Coolwhip: What's the point? The one that matters is in tactical discussion...

I guess we could go over the basics of the match-up n such...

 

[The Nutz of Norcal Deez]

marth is not bad, i can beat zex and sake with mario from time to time lol

 

[Matt07]

-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:

Hmm, some things I'm curious about.

1) Possibly Metaknight only being -2? I think he's fine where he is, but a majority of you guys would say -3?
2) PT, Wolf, IC's, Peach and Falco being -2, I thought these match-ups were more close to even, or slight disadvantage.
3) -1 Looks Perfect in my opinion, I might move Sheik, Zelda and Sheik down to even though.
4) Ness being in our favour? I think Ness slightly wins this match-up, in my opinion.

Yea...those are my opinions. Other than that this chart is really good.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

FLUDD to Cape ****

Ness should be +>9000

 

[Matt07]

Hahaha, only FLUDD vs Ness is that bad .

Edit: Happy Birthday by the way rPSI .

 

[Coolwhip]

hmm...Let's see if i know something about g&w.

-Mindgame your fireballz
-up-smash oos against him. (especially when he trys to dair you. g&w lags for a sec.)
-Space @ least one character away from him. Jabs, f-tilts & dair are your friend for close range kombat.

That's bout as much as i know, lol. Anyone please feel free to correct me.

 

[HeroMystic]

-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:

MK needs to be -3.
GW needs to be -2. Seriously, he's not a hard counterpick to Mario anymore.
DK being -1 is iffy, prefer for him to be 0.
Diddy being 0 is iffy. I'd prefer him to be -1.
Pokemon Trainer being -2 is lulzy.

Overall it's a decent representation of what we discussed., but I'd like to see the reasoning behind most of these, particularly what I already mentioned, as well as Bowser, Wolf, and Olimar.

 

[Matador]

Yeah, MK should be alone wherever he lands to establish himself as, by far, our hardest match-up. Not even D3 compares.

PT, Wolf, and Peach should move down. I can live with Peach staying, but Wolf and PT should go down a spot.

Wouldn't rage if Sheik and Sheilda stayed. I think it's even though.

I think Ness is fine. We have a few things that lend the advantage to us in that match-up, even if it's slight. Not referring to Fludd either.

Lol, we lose to ROB now?

 

[HeroMystic]

Lol, we lose to ROB now?

Apparently so. I think A2 has been harping on that for awhile.

Admittedly though 70:30 Mario in that MU three years ago was very satisfying, but it's either 0 or +1 Mario IMO.

 

[Matador]

Apparently so. I think A2 has been harping on that for awhile.

Admittedly though 70:30 Mario in that MU three years ago was very satisfying, but it's either 0 or +1 Mario IMO.

Lmao, I remember that XD

But yeah...even at the very least. I'm thinking +1 though.

 

[HeroMystic]

Right now I'm trying to phantom how exactly the BBR saw Marth as a harder MU than Metaknight when the latter basically does the same thing but better.

The only thing that Marth has over Metaknight is that he can stop fireballs with his F-air.

 

[fromundaman]

Having fun with both currently. Loving how balanced Marvel is turning out to be.

You should see my Viewtiful Joe. He's so ****in viewtiful, it's ridiculous.

@ Fromundaman: There's actually mindgames going on all the time in SF. Just looks different. That thing where they dance back and forth and throw out random attacks (low lag...they want them to whiff on purpose and punish someone trying to punish them) is where the bulk of their mindgames lie. Pretty deep stuff actually.

Still not at deep as Smash goes imo though. Just not enough options for it.

To everyone correcting me on SF: Okay, I'll take your word for it. As I said, I haven't really played SF much, and didn't like it enough to explore it any more than I did. It seemed less mindgame oriented from an outsider's view.

Dude, Viewtiful Joe is mad underrated. I think he may be a sent counter too, since he can bait the launcher/close range hyper, H RHK punish into Slow, and slow sent = lol.
He has some awesome combos too.
What team are you running? I'm still fine tuning mine. I was using Vjoe/Tron/Ammy at the tournament yesterday, but I think I might switch out Ammy for Morrigan to build meter faster and be able to use Slow and Mach Speed pretty much nonstop.

Heresy! -_-

Zerg da bess!

For the swarm!




Also, I ended up using more Mario and Wolf at yesterday's Brawl tourny than Kirby, and repped Mario the hardest, surprisingly. I even managed to take a game off of AZ with Mario (Though granted, for some reason GG was on the stagelist and the fact I actually know how to play the stage kind of gave me that win. Also, at one point he throws me into a bomb, I tech it, so the invul frames occur as it explodes. He dies, I take no damage XD ).

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Don't worry guys, here is my own version of that list. It is the most accurate.

-3:
-2.5:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3: Count's

I'm willing to give one sentence reasonings behind anything on this opinionated list by the way.

 

[Inferno3044]

-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:

Hmm, some things I'm curious about.

1) Possibly Metaknight only being -2? I think he's fine where he is, but a majority of you guys would say -3?
2) PT, Wolf, IC's, Peach and Falco being -2, I thought these match-ups were more close to even, or slight disadvantage.
3) -1 Looks Perfect in my opinion, I might move Sheik, Zelda and Sheik down to even though.
4) Ness being in our favour? I think Ness slightly wins this match-up, in my opinion.

Yea...those are my opinions. Other than that this chart is really good.

What is this and where is this from? I wanna make a more accurate one of these but I don't know the scale. Does +1 = 60:40 or 55:45?

 

[HeroMystic]

The new match-up gauge isn't really supposed to be compared to match-up ratios as they have a broader perspective.

0: Mostly even. Small advantages also apply here, as long as the opponent can work around the small advantages easily.
1: Advantage, but beatable with some outplay. The advantage doesn't have to be significant, just noticable enough.
2: Solid counterpick. Still beatable but player skill will have to be taken into account.
3: Hard counterpick, and shuts down the character pretty hard.
4:

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Don't worry guys, here is my own version of that list. It is the most accurate.

-3:
-2.5:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3: Count's

I'm willing to give one sentence reasonings behind anything on this opinionated list by the way.

Why does mario not exist on this list! I demand my one sentence reasoning!

 

[HeroMystic]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12266930&postcount=159

Translation: "I dunno lol"

 

[Matador]

What is this and where is this from? I wanna make a more accurate one of these but I don't know the scale. Does +1 = 60:40 or 55:45?

Go to the "competitive brawl discussion" sub-forum and u should find it. It's being bumped like every 5 seconds.

They did away with the ratios since they don't make sense. +1 simply means slight advantage.

@Xero: Why Lucario and Sheik for -2? Other than that, Interesting but agreeable take.

@Fromundaman: So far I'm just playing characters I like...haven't really formed a cohesive team. Running Spidey(a)/Vjoe(a)/Wolvie(y).

It's working out too...got a decent record (89 wins, 19 losses) and was on the MvC3 set-up at Pound for like an hour and a half before dropping my first set to Mekos and getting off. But sooner or later I'll end up buckling down and forming a team based off how well the members compliment each other.

And yea, Vjoe DEFINITELY has some merits vs Sent. Voomerangs make approaching so easy...

 

[HeroMystic]

Even better I'll quote it here, because we'll probably have to start using this format as well.

-4: (close to) unwinnable
-3: large disadvantage/hard countered
-2: medium disadvantage
-1: small disadvantage
0: even
+1: small advantage
+2: medium advantage
+3: large advantage/hard counter
+4: (close to) unloseable

I do wonder how they gauge "Small advantage" though.

 

[Sleek Media]

Figure I'll take a stab at this:

-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:

 

[vato_break]

Anyone know the wolf matchup? there's a couple mid level wolf here and it seems fun with mario but, super boring with mk.