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Make Your Move 6 - Nothing Gold can Stay

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SkylerOcon

Tiny Dancer
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
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MARIO
remix





Doubtlessly the most iconic video game character of all time, Mario need no introduction. Famous for jumping, Goomba stomping, turtle a ss-kicking, and unfortunately realizing that his princess is in another castle seven out of eight times, you can't call yourself a gamer if you have never played a Mario game.

Starring in over 200 games, he was the obvious character choice for the original Super Smash Brothers. However, his moveset has never really captured the essence of his character. This was forgivable on the N64, due to its technical limitations, but on the Gamecube and Wii, it's quite surprising that he wasn't given a true update rather than slight move changes. This moveset aims to fix that.


Stats

Walking - 45/100 - Not exactly the greatest walk out there, coming in at slight below average.

Running - 75/100 - Mario's run, however, more than makes up for his walk, coming in as one of the quicker runs in the game.

Jump One - 70/100 - They don't call him Jumpman for nothing!

Jump Two - 75/100 - Even better than his grounded jump, Mario's aerial jump is not to be laughed at! This jump also comes with a nice little effect - Mario's footstool deals 5% damage! Nice!

Aerial Movement - 60/100 - Identical to his speed in Brawl. Quick, but not the quickest.

Fall Speed - 50/100 - Once again, equivalent to his Brawl stat.

Weight - 55/100 - You guessed it! Equivalent to his Brawl stat.

Knockback - 40/100 - Mario's knockback takes a slight hit in his new rendition, due to his moveset becoming even more combo/gimping focused than it already was.

Damage - 40/100 - Taking another hit, Mario also deals less damage.


Specials

Neutral Special

Fireball - 5% - You should know how this move works. There are absolutely no changes to the move in this set. The fireballs work exactly the same.

Side Special

Cape - 8% - At a glance, this move seems to function exactly like Mario's cape currently does - the recovery-reversing and projectile-reflecting goodness we've come to know and love. However, if you hold down the B-Button after using the cape in the air, Mario will glide with it! It goes at about the speed of Meta-Knight's glide, which is decent.

This sounds nice, but it is Mario's only 100% guaranteed recovery move. His down special can also act as a recovery, but more on that later.

Up Special

Hover Nozzle - 1%, 2% (randomly) - Though charging the FLUDD is controlled through the
Down Special, the FLUDD is also used during the Up Special. I'm sure most of the people reading this have played Mario Sunshine, but for those who haven't, here's what you'll be looking at:

Mario uses the FLUDD to spray the water below him (it'll reach the height of one and a half Ganondorfs below him). This will allow him to hover, moving much like Peach's float, but at about three quarters of the speed of the aforementioned float. However, how long Mario can float depends on the charge of the FLUDD.

At full charge, Mario can float for two seconds, which makes for decent horizontal movement (though nothing like his glide). The big plus of this move though, is its gimping capabilities. If the opponent gets caught under the jet streams, they are pushed down to the bottom of the water. Fortunately for your opponent, the jet streams have terrible priority, and all up specials will go through this move.

Below average start-up and ending lag. If you use this attack while standing on the ground, Mario will begin to hover about his own height above the ground.

Down Special

Squirt Nozzle/Rocket Nozzle - No Damage/5-20% - This move functions exactly like Mario's current FLUDD. Charge it by the button input, and let 'er rip when it's done charging (or even before that by pressing Down-B again!).

However... there's a slight change. While the default Squirt Nozzle acts exactly the same, this move now has a new function. By using your down taunt, Mario's Down Special will switch from the Squirt Nozzle to the Rocket Nozzle.


The Rocket Nozzle is Mario's primary form of vertical recovery. Even at full charge though, it's not even that outstanding, going only about the height of his current, mediocre, recovery at full charge! Though a nice plus is that Mario sends out a nice stream of water, starting about his own height below him that follows him up till the peak of his recovery.

It deals 5% with low knockback at minimum charge, but it deals 20% with incredibly high knockback at full charge - killing at about 50% if you land this move parallel to FD's platform off-stage! Unfortunately, it has above average start-up lag (I wouldn't say high start-up lag though; just enough lag for this move to be predictable) and sends you into helpless.


Standards

Neutral Combo

Yoshi Hatchling - 5% - Mario, seemingly out of nowhere, pulls out a small Yoshi Hatchling. Pressing A to bring it out, Mario will continue holding the small creature directly in front of him, until you press A again, putting him away. Much like in Super Mario World, Yoshi will eat nearly anything that touches it - in this case, any opponent.

Despite that the move has the start-up lag of regular Mario's Forward Smash (allowing the opponent to pretty much see it coming), catching an opponent off guard with this move is a good thing. Upon touching any part of Mario, or the Yoshi, the opponent gets swallowed, and then promptly spat back out by the Yoshi, sending them about one and a half Battlefield platforms away. While the move doesn't turn the opponent into an egg like you might expect, it does have a great deal of hitstun due to the opponents shock of being covered in dino-spit. It gives the opponent about half a second of lag UPON hitting the ground (or if they're sent off stage, three quarters of a second of lag).

The Yoshi is put away much quicker when the move is landed than when it isn't - if it is landed, it has nearly no ending lag. If Mario puts the Yoshi away by pressing A, then the move has ending lag equivalent to that of regular Mario's Forward Smash. The Yoshi also has below average priority, so don't expect it to go through much. As a nice little easter egg, the Yoshi that Mario takes out will randomly be one of four colors: Green, Red, Blue, and Yellow.

Dash Attack

Turbo Nozzle - 8% - This move does exactly as the name suggests; Mario uses the FLUDD to turbo charge his run. At no charge, you'll just see a few droplets of water shoot out of the back of the FLUDD and... nothing will happen. Mario will just stop after the droplets stop coming out (about a quarter of a second). Mario doesn't even get a speed increase!

However, with any charge, Mario runs exactly 1.35x faster than his normal speed, and can go for as long as 1.25 seconds at the increased speed at max charge. Upon letting go of the A button (or the charge running out) Mario will quickly slow to a halt, with a touch of ending lag - about equivalent to that of his current dash attack.

The move has above average priority, and decent knockback, killing at 150% (Well... decent for a dash attack). It also has a touch of start-up lag, while the FLUDD comes out.


Tilts

Forward Tilt

Mega Strike - 11% - Mario heaves his right leg up, and bends over slightly (just enough so that his foot is parallel to his head). His arms are lifted up to his sides, and suddenly, Mario gives a forceful kick, almost as if he were kicking a soccer ball!

The move is incredibly straightforward, and serves as nothing more than a quick GTFO move (taking the place of Mario's old neutral combo). It has an incredibly fast start-up and very low ending lag. Nice! As a nice plus, despite having no kill potential (killing starting at 180%), the move has a pretty cool cosmetic effect, as it sets the opponent that Mario kicks on fire. However, it does have low priority.

Upward Tilt

Uppercut - 8% - A direct port of Mario's current up tilt, but with a slight damage gimp. However, it keeps its awesome locking capabilities, so it's excellent for damage racking at low percents.

Downward Tilt

/dance - 12% - Mario... breakdances.


A reference to the very obscure (and very bad) DDR Mario Mix, Mario will continue to breakdance in place indefinitely as long as you keep on tapping the A button. It has range on both sides equivalent to that of his current Down Smash, and it also has above average priority!

This serves as an alternative to your Forward Tilt - it has a bit more range, though it has a noticeable extra touch of start-up and ending lag. It also does a bit more damage, and kills about 10% earlier (170%). It's a good GTFO move, and also just a good move to throw out at random times (due to decent range and good priority).


Smashes

Forward Smash

Hammer Strike - 15% uncharged, 23% fully charged hammer hitbox; 8% uncharged, 11% fully charged star hitbox- Mario takes out his signature metal hammer, heaves it over his head, and slams it onto the ground. As a nice little plus (and easter egg for Paper Mario fans), as you charge, the action command meter will show up floating above Mario's head, and will charge up as you charge the move. This is purely cosmetic, and has no effect on the move.


In true Mario fashion, upon hitting the ground, the hammer shoots out a star right in front of it. It's small, about the size of the hammerhead itself. It quickly disappears, and in fact, stays out a bit shorter than the actual hammer hitbox does! Hitting with the star yields a nice reward however, giving the move just enough hitstun for Mario to come and follow up with a neutral combo, up air, or any move with pretty quick start-up. The hammer itself deals good knockback, killing at around 125% (though with the move losing how freshness, expect to be killing at around 135%).

If you completely whiff the move (not hitting with the hammer or the star), however, 25% of the time, while Mario brings his hammer back up, the Hammer head will fly up two Battlefield Platform lengths until crashing into the ground and subsequently disappearing. It's very quick, and should end as soon as Mario is able to move again. Really, it just serves as catching opponents that dodged the move off-guard, with an unexpected extra hitbox. It has low knockback though, only killing at about 160%, and only does 10%, regardless of charge.

Average start-up and average ending lag. Above average priority.

Upward Smash

Poppin' Shrooms - 11%, uncharged, 19% fully charged - Mario takes out a Power Mushroom! Lifting it up to his mouth, Mario takes a bite out it, causing him to quickly grow to the size of Ganondorf height-wise (he proportionally grows width-wise). He then quickly shrinks back to his normal size.

This move looks a lot like Mario's current Up Taunt, just Mario doesn't grow near as big, and this also goes much faster (taking about three quarters of a second with VERY little lag on both ends). This move serves one purpose: A good aerial defense. The move has good priority, so it can be thrown out and it will out-prioritize a good amount of other character's aerials.

It's also a decent combo starter too - at lower percents, you'll probably be able to chain this move into quite a number of Mario's aerials. The move has low lag on both ends, though you won't see it killing for a very long while (about 160%).

Downward Smash

Kuribo Shoe - 13% uncharged, 20% fully charged - This is one of Mario's abilities with a lesser known name, but a fairly recognizable image. It's also from SMB3, so a good deal of the people reading this haven't really played/don't remember that game very well anyway.


It's a small image, but still, it's a sprite ripped directly from the game. Beyond a somewhat obscure reference that hardcore Mario friends should appreciate, there's not that much to the move, Mario preforms a short hop, barely going about Pikachu's height while he's running off of the ground. This shoots out a small star on either side (much like the Forward Smash) that also has a good amount of hitstun, enough for you to follow up with pretty much any move with a quick start-up.

As a nice plus, if you keep the A button held down, Mario will stay in the shoe, and it will serve as an all-inclusive shield, that will even block grabs! However, Mario's head is vulnerable still, so be careful with that! If you're hit, he takes 1.2x more damage that normal.

Decent priority, with below average lag on start-up and next to no ending lag. Kills at 140%.


Aerials

Neutral Aerial


Flame Burst - 8% - Mario, very slightly curling his body up, unleashes an aura of fire all around his body, thought it doesn't extend very far - the opponent has to be in close proximity to Mario for the move to land. It's extremely quick with nearly no lag on either end of the move. Not only is great for starting combos, it's great for helping continue them, as the extremely small amount of ending lag allows Mario to follow up on opponents pretty easily. It knocks opponents in the direction that they hit it from, but all of Mario's aerials should be able to follow up on this move until about 50%. The knockback is pathetic (good luck killing with this move, even at 500%), but that only helps with its extreme combo-ability.

Forward Aerial

Fire Stream - 8% - Mario lifts up his right arm and shoots out a jet stream of fire. You can change where his arm is pointing, merely by rotating the control stick during the move's start-up lag (which is about equal to that of Mario's current Forward Smash). If you have the control stick angled to somewhere that it would be physically impossible for Mario's arm to reach, he'll merely just angle his hand so that it can reach where you're aiming.

This move is extremely useful, because it compliments Mario's combo game - Upon reaching higher percents, you may knock the opponent out of range for all of your other aerials. This is where this move comes in - it can reach where they can't, and due to hitstun, the opponents won't be able to escape it. It also helps with Mario's gimping game, because it can be aimed downwards. The stream reaches 1.5 Battlefield Platforms in whatever direction you aim.

Average ending lag, and knockback that kills at 200%. High priority.

Backward Aerial​

Swift Grab - 5% - This move is as simplistic as it sounds - Mario spins around in an attempt to grab the opponent, and then spins back. The grab range is the range of Mario's ground grab (standing). However, Mario doesn't throw the opponent at all... he merely lets go of them, directly in front of him. This may seem absolutely useless, but this sets the opponent up for any other of his aerials (except for the forward air, due to its start-up). This move is absolutely great for starting combos, and is a great option for an aerial combo start due to decent range and incredibly low lag on both sides. This move, however, has painfully low priority.

Upward Aerial​

Flip Kick - 9% - Exactly the same as its' current incarnation, but with a slight damage gimp.

Downward Aerial​

Luma Spin - 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 7% Mario, 2% Luma - Mario spins exactly as he does in his current down air. However, a Luma now strays a slight bit from Mario (about half a Battlefield platform) in an attempt to hit the closest opponent - if they're hit, they're sucked back into Mario's down air and take 14% instead of the usual 12%. Nice!


Throws

Animation

Identical to his current animation, same as the pummel. Though, the pummel does 1% less damage and goes at a slightly faster rate.

Forward Throw

Head Stomp - 11% - Mario jumps up and jumps on top of the opponent head, in traditional Mario fashion. He jumps off with a bit of extra flair, pulling off a blackflip before landing two Battlefield platforms away from the opponent (or as close to the ledge as possible). This causes the opponents head to hurt and sends them into the stunned animation! Though, this only lasts for half its normal time, to prevent Mario from charging an Forward Smash for broken KO-ing here - in fact, he's be hard pressed to even LAND a Forward Smash. This serves as an excellent combo starter.

Backward Throw

Spinning Throw - Exactly the same as the Brawl incarnation, but with a slight buff (finally!). Though it's not much, the move kills about 15% earlier than normal (making it kill at around 145%). It's not much... but it's great for when you can't land that Forward Smash.

Upward Throw

FLUDD Spray - 10%-18% - Mario tosses the opponent upwards, and then aims the FLUDD Nozzle at the opponent. He sprays the opponent, propelling them two Ganondorf's lengths upwards, with fixed knockback. The amount of time this takes (and the amount of damage) is dependent on the charge. At no charge, the opponent travels at the speed of Zero Suit Samus' blaster, doing 10%. At max, the opponent rockets upwards at the speed of Fox's blaster, doing 18%. This move is great for getting opponents in the air, though it's more for damage than comboing.

Downward Throw

Ground Pound - 10% - Mario Throws the opponent on the ground and then jumps up and pulls off the famous Ground Pound on them. This has a 20% chance of grounding the opponent (pitfall animation), and an 80% chance of causing the opponent to slide three Battlefield platforms to the side Mario grabbed the opponent from.


Final Smash

Mario Finale

That's right, nothing new here. Mario retains his entirely badass current Final Smash and just gives it a moderate hitstun buff, so that opponents can't escape it quite so easily (easily increasing it's killing potential).


Playstyle

Running for the Axe - Approaching

Mario's approach method remains generally the same as it did in Brawl - Short hop fireballs and try to get inside the opponents range. Land an Up Tilt for easy damage if you can, but don't force it. Throwing out forward airs will now become a major help due to its' great range. Though, the start-up lag will be a definite tell, so try to distract the opponent with fireballs BEFORE throwing this out so you don't get shielded and punished.

Random up airs, down airs, and neutral airs also help. Try to throw these out if the opponent is also coming at you, due to their quick start-up and low ending lag. All of these, except for the down air, are combo starters, which pretty much means a free 40% (yes!).

Luigi Style - Defending

Stay back an camp with fireballs. Bring out your yoshi egg to make the opponent cautious of getting close, and also take advantage of FIHL (FLUDD Induced Hit Lag - yes, it can do that). Your down tilt helps a lot with this, due to the fact that it can last forever, and the forward tilt is great in case your opponent gets a bit too close for comfort.

Your Up Smash decently counteracts aerial approaching, though if you're afraid of it, just run away and start throwing out fireballs while you're getting away. ALWAYS look for a time to come in and start a combo, whether it be via grabbing, the Up Tilt, or many of Mario's aerials.

Toads Tips - General Strategy​

Mario, at his core, is still the same character as he was before. He is HIGHLY focused around proper spacing, speed, and unpredictability. Throwing out random Up Airs is nice, but it shouldn't ALWAYS be an Up Air. Mix it up by staying on the ground, randomly caping your opponent, or just screwing up their spacing by using the FLUDD.

Mario is extremely well-suited for combos. All of his aerials string together, and he has various combo-starting ground moves. He has subpar killing, which you should always watch out for, but his damaging capabilities are extremely impressive. Also, pay attention to your FLUDD's charge! This is extremely important, as it is the sole benefactor to ALL of Mario's vertical recovery! Not to mention it also has plenty of other nice applications.

The Down Smash is great for when your shield is running low, or against characters with chaingrabs such as Dedede. If you're in danger of an aerial attack, throw out an Up Smash - even if you miss, it'll deter the opponent a slight bit. The Forward Smash is a nice attack, because even if you botch your timing at the opponent is still a slight bit away, there's that small chance that the hammer head will fly off to hit your opponent!

After comboing, the most important part of Mario is this: His extreme gimping abilites. Down angled Forward Air, the Spray Nozzle, Hover Nozzle, Rocket Nozzle, and cape are all EXCELLENT for keeping your opponent away from the ledge. Learn this and abuse it!

To sum it up, Mario is a light-midweight with an emphasis on combos and edgeguarding, though neither really overshadows the other. However, he's stunted by poor KO ability, and that his moves still suffer from the same range problem as before (except for the projectiles/Forward Air/Up Smash), which will possibly, once again, hold him back as a mid tier. Seriously, it may not seem like it matters, but Brawl Mario would easily be high tier if he was just given a little bit more range! Range counts for much more than most of you all realize, and Mario doesn't have very much of it.


Combos

0% - 30%

Neutral Combo -> Any aerial (DAir and FAir end the combo here) -> Up Air -> Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Up Air

Star (Down Smash/Forward Smash) -> Any aerial (DAir and FAir end the combo here) -> Up Air -> Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Up Air

Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Up Air/Down Air/Forward Air

Forward Throw -> Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Up Air -> Forward Air

Back Air -> Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Up Air -> Forward Air

I could list a lot more for this section, but you get the general idea.

31% - 60%​

Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Up Air/Down Air/Forward Air

Neutral Combo -> Any aerial (DAir and FAir end the combo here) -> Up Air -> Forward Air

Star (Down Smash/Forward Smash) -> Any aerial (DAir and FAir end the combo here) -> Up Air -> Forward Air

Forward Throw -> Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Forward Air

Back Air -> Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Forward Air

61% - 100%​

Neutral Combo -> Any aerial (DAir and FAir end the combo here) -> Up Air -> Forward Air

Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Forward Air

Star (Down Smash/Forward Smash) -> Any aerial (DAir and FAir end the combo here) -> Forward Air

Back Air -> Neutral Air -> Up Air -> Forward Air


Extras

Taunts

Side Taunt - The FLUDD appears on Mario's back, as he grabs the waist strap and hoists it up. A quiet click is heard, signifying the change between the Spray and Rocket Nozzles.

Up Taunt - Mario grooms his mustache with his fingers, stroking himself two times.

Down Taunt - A reprise of Mario's current side taunt, where he takes off his hat and preforms a spin on the ground. That sexy beast. As a nice easter egg, if you use the down taunt next to a teammate that is playing as Yoshi, Mario will jump on top of the Yoshi and quickly emulate the post found on the Super Mario World cover art. He will then jump off.

Alternate Costumes​

- Dr. Mario (As a nice bonus, the fireballs change to pills and the fire effects turn into electricity)
- Referee Mario
- Strikers Mario
- There Will Be Brawl Mario (Pretty much just rolled up sleeves and blood on his fists)
- Mario Cannon
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
Silver Rival Trainer




Chikorita
you got the feeling she's like ivy? Weird, i tried to base her off of much different characters, in fact i tried my hardest to essentially only make Leaf Storm and the grab similar...

(in fact, i based her off of a certain top character a bit...)

Cool that you like Quil :bee:

as for his Uthrow, i kindof modeled it off of sonic: only truly useful at High %, seeing as you cant really follow it up at lower (reliably) *shrug*

Feraligator

Now we move on to RT's answer to PT's Charizard. Hopefully he'll be more interesting than the PT counterpart.
Thanks, (takes notes on throw lag).

As for his side b: its not exactly a clone, he lunges forward to to it, giving it like 16x the range of wario's and can be angled to counter DI and hit other players.

I mean, hes a giant crocdile...he needs a move fitting of "the big-jaw pokemon"

Overall

Anyway, Silver Rival Trainer may not cover any exciting new ground, but it is certainly a good effort from a fairly inexperienced MYM'er and really shows that JOE! has potential for greatness.
thanks a ton chris :)

I think i went a bit too technical with him for sure, and didnt focus enough on the character's style: two things ill definatley take into consideration for my next set :bee:
 

Darkslash

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
4,076
Location
Strangereal Equestria
Oh Skyler.. this is big time beautiful.
*gasp* Spire made a post!

Now, the sins keep bugging me to make a actual commentary for once, and now it seems a certain ex Carpenter made me a door and he knocked on it. And with out furthur ado, the start of my first (and possibly ****ty and sugar coated) commentary on the Mario Remix.

From a skim, one of the things I really like about the Mario remix is your organization. You thankfully got straight to the point with this set and no mumbo jumbo to beef the look of your set.

You also didn't change moves for the sake of changing. For example the fire ball was thankfully, kept the same. The moves that you needed to changed were thankfully useful(then again, thats the point of a remix).

Also a combo section was a nice touch up, and you thankfully didn't go back on your word when you said Sukapon sucked.

Yea I like Mario remix, and if this comes off of sugar coating, well...yea (WARY)
 

MarthTrinity

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,954
Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
Mario Remix

So here we have another SkylerOcon set (that's been previewed to me like a dozen times ;)). Right off the bat I notice that the organization of this set isn't quite as nice or flashy as Vaati or V-13's was, the text isn't some crazy fitting font but the colors work nicely and there's some good images thrown in there to make it look nice. The headers as a whole are also quite nice as well (also I noticed it isn't an image like your other two major sets were). So yeah, organization is nice and flowy foro this set so I approve (although I still prefer the others' organization more).

Anyway, from when you were previewing it to me there was one thing I always poked fun at; lots and lots of props. Now, while I'm not one to put down props (hell, look at Mac) I knew you'd probably get a bit of crap for it...but admittedly, these props are all in character and make great use of trademark Mario moves (most notably the Super Mushrooms and Kuribo's Shoe, which I love mind you). Overall, if any character really fits the prop profile, it's Mario with all of his wacky powerups.

So what do you have in the way of moves? Well, it bugs me slightly that Mario's Up Special is charged via his Down Special...and the part of the Down Special that bothers me is that it's changed via taunt...to me it just kinda comes across as you wanted both of them in the set, but you couldn't chose which you wanted more, so you worked around it to find a way to get them both in. I'm sure if I mained Mario Remix I'd get used to it...but at the current point in time it seems clumsey to have a taunt be a crucial part of a characters strategies.

The Neutral A is a clever concept...but it really doesn't come across with that basic pummel concept almost all Neutral A's have; seems more like a side tilt kinda thing. Tilts are all good and we already went through how Mario could breakdance in Super Mario 64 ;) No need to mention that awful DDR game...

Smashes are all pretty good and like I said, I love Kuribo's Shoe, favorite Mario power up of all time (besides maybe the Tanookie Suit...I miss Tanookie (cry2)). And since when do people not remember Super Mario Bros. 3? I always figured that was one of the most popular ones excluding World and 64...

Aerials and throws are all fine (except that back air which is kinda dull and really only included for the combo aspects of Mario)...my one real complaint here is that you actually -KEPT- Mario Finale? That painfully uninspired move? Nothing to do with Stars or Warp Pipes or grabbing axes or any of the retro aspects of Mario at all...but the dull generic fire blast? I'd rather you gave him a Mega Mushroom and given him a "Hyper Mode" than keep that one >_>

Anyway! The playstyle and combo sections are both great; it's blatantly clear that you put a lot of thought into just how one of Mario's moves would flow into the next and you managed to do it quite well. It's clear you're a Mario mainer; you know his strengths and weaknesses and you know how he -SHOULD- play and how you ideally would like him to.

Overall, I'd say this is above V-13 for sure and it laughs at Metagross (Metagross don exits though, right?) and it's probably up above Vaati too. With this one you took the whole combo oriented thing and ran with it, but you (fortunately) didn't skimp out on the originality. While you easily could've given Mario punches and kicks and such and had him be an absolute beast at combos, you went to both sides with this moveset; to one side to appeal to the playstyle crowd and to another to appeal to the originality/unique moves crowd.

Great job overall Ocon, you keep improving with every set :3
Except Metagross (wary)
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,011
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
[size=+2]Mario (remix)[/size]

The first thing I can say is that I like how you made Mario's stats more realistic. The thing about this set, is that it is so much more realistic for Mario than the Brawl set (But I would have loved to see that move from Mario 64 where you press forward, Z and A in conjunction for Mario to leap forward and make a funny noise, for his dash). My 2 favourite moves in the set were the D-tilt and the F-throw (They should have put that in Brawl big time). The alternate costumes were cool (There would have been a lot more anyway). The moves are not overly complicated or anything at all, this Mario set could be made into brawl. An impressive job making Mario, and so many more incarnations could be made (Like SMG Mario)

Paint Roller being a great set in the future was a joke, but he still could be. It's a future comment.

Also, this thread has been rather quiet for reasons I do not know of. At this rate, MT's Sunday recap will be a short one indeed.
 

Meadow

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
197
Location
Herndon, VA
Mario Remix!

I love Mario so much that I had to give commentary (I know it's bad though, sorry). And one thing I can say for sure is; it really fits Mario's character. I think you did a great job improving on Mario's moveset, all of the attacks you gave him are his...um, specialty attacks, I guess. Although I'm a bit hesitant in having two F.L.U.D.D. specials, that's only a minor flaw in my eyes.

You attack descriptions were short and sweet, and you include a bit of background information as well. You managed to condense everything you wanted to say (I assume this of course > <), and it makes perfect sense. Your aerials seemed a bit too... um, combo-happy, in my opinion. I think that his KO Potential has been decreased a bit too much, even with his new Smash Attacks. The range, as you said, makes up for it, I think. But your version of Mario's Down Aerial just made me love it even better.

And um, sorry if I'm coming off a bit rude, but is there any reason why you chose a Power Mushroom instead of Super Mushroom? Or is there no difference? o.o; But I guess Super Mushroom are already used in the game anyway, so...

Oh, and one minor complaint; the headers were a bit too dark for me to see on this black background, so maybe you should change it into a brighter shade of red? Or maybe it's my monitor settings. Sorry~

Great job overall, this is a very nice set! I had a lot of fun reading it. :D

Edit : Wow, I sugarcoated a lot...or smothered my review in honey >_< Sorry, I don't really have an eye for seeing bad things...if that makes sense; I'm not good at picking out flaws other than the obvious ones.

And (Sorry for another edit that you're probably not going to see, but...) yes, I think it may be my monitor settings. I fiddled around with them a few minutes ago and changed the contrast and brightness; now everything looks a whole lot more sparkly and shiny and all sort of those things! Those pink usernames are a bit too bright and neon now, though...

But I do love Hot Pink!
 

Kholdstare

Nightmare Weaver
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,416
I think Mario Remix was a great set, much better than Vaati.

Oh, and Kholdstare is finished.
 

SixrchBattosai

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
39
Location
With my boyfriend...who's moving ;A;
Mario Remix is pretty dang sweet. I like the references to other games, such as the Forward Smash, the Forward Tilt, the other uses of FLUDD, and...pretty much every other move. In my next set, I'll try to implement the hitstun, killing %, and priority. This is a model moveset! Great set, Skyler! :D

One problem: In the forward throw's description, you said something a bit confusing:

"...in fact, he's be hard pressed to even LAND a Forward Smash..."

Could you clarify what you meant, please? Thanks in advance!
 

SkylerOcon

Tiny Dancer
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
5,210
Location
ATX
That's a typo, I probably meant to say "He'd be hard pressed to even LAND a Forward Smash or He's hard pressed to even LAND a forward smash. One of those two, fit much better, most likely.

@Meadow: Well, Power Shroom works just as well as Super Shroom, so I guess I just got the two terms mixed up in my head. Super Mushroom is its correct name though, you're right on that. I can read the headers fine, personally, but I dunno about everybody else. So you might have your monitor settings a bit screwy, or my monitor settings my be screwy. Who knows x_x

@Everybody else: Thanks for the praise! One complaint I'm constantly seeing is that I had two FLUDD moves in his specials... Well, I gave him the Up Special because nothing worked as well, and I made the Down Special switch via the side taunt because I didn't want to have to give ANOTHER input to the FLUDD.

But this went over better than I expected. Sweet!
 

Kholdstare

Nightmare Weaver
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,416
I couldn't wait for 9/23/09

A chill permeates the air . . .

***
*** K h o l d s t a r e ***
***


***********************

The winter's harshness comes alive . . .


Stats


Weight - 7
Height - 9
Power - 7
Run - 3
Jump - 4
Attack Speed - 4
Fall Speed - 8
Priority - 9
Traction - 10


Kholdstare is what you might call a pseudo-heavyweight. He's not exactly a powerhouse, nor is he heavy as some of the other villains. He's just a reanimated being of ice, after all. He focuses on disjointed attacks and projectiles but doesn't have Magic Syndrome, as all of them or reasonable. He's still pretty slow, but his traction is superb, and he doesn't slip on his own terrain, ice. And you're going to be making a lot of ice floors.

You shiver to your bones . . .


Special Attacks


Neutral Special {Φ} Carve

This will only work if the opponent is frozen.

Kholdstare claps his hands with nearly no lag, causing the frozen opponent's ice to be chipped away to make a perfectly shaped block of ice around them. They will now function like a Rolling Crate until they button mash out of this. Khold can break the block to deal [20%] damage to them (the block has [20 HP]) or bump into them to send them sliding away! They also take a constant [2%] per second while frozen in this state.

Foes caught in an ice block need to button mash to get out of this, just like being frozen normally.

Side Special {Φ} Substitute

Kholdstare crosses his arms and laughs evilly as an exact duplicate of himself forms in front of him. This duplicate, however, has no eye inside it . . . yet. If you use Khold's Side Special again, his eye will exit its current body and inhabit the other. The eye is ghostly like a soul . . . but much more solid.

It flies at the speed of Sonic's run, but it somehow seems slower . . . must be its ghostly appearance. If the opponent attacks Khold's eye when it is en route to the other body, Khold's eye takes high upward knockback, equal to that of Luigi's USpec getting the "PWAANNG!" effect. That's right, his eye is that fragile.

It takes [2 seconds] to create a duplicate and you must wait [60 seconds] before you can create another duplicate and you cannot have more than one duplicate in play at the same time.

Duplicates have no set HP and function just like the real Khold, meaning that they can be footstooled, grabbed, and knocked away. A duplicate shares the same damage percent with the other, but if the empty body gets hit, it won't add to Khold's damage percent. They also have an AI, although it's not amazing. It's about the same as a Level 1 CPU, although it will never risk going off the stage or ground. Khold can only control one body at a time, however.

Fools . . . don't they know Khold can create alternates of himself?

Up Special {Φ} Wings of the Ice Keese

Khold spreads his arms out wide as a pair of wings made of ice and as wide as Charizard's Brawl sprout from his back. Khold now has six midair jumps, each equal to one of Meta Knight's mid air jumps. After using these six up, Khold will enter freefall.

This recovery is just begging to be gimped, so why would this be useful? Well, this has two advantages: you can air dodge while using this recovery and continue it, and if the enemy hits Khold while he is recovering, something strange will happen . . .

If Khold is hit during this move, the wings will shatter and become five Ice Keese, each the size of a Poke Ball. These will home in on the one who attacked Khold and fly into him. They explode on contact and deal [5%] each and can freeze them.

[25% total][20% chance of freezing]

Down Special {Φ} Ice Rings

Kholdstare folds his arms in an "X" shape across his chest. Three rings with the diameter of Bowser each form around him: two diagonally in different directions, to give the appearance of an X, and one horizontally. They will spin around Khold at high speeds, as long as the (A) button is held in. They disappear after five seconds.

These will act like a shield, deflecting all projectiles back at the opponent. Any non-energy projectile and melee attack that deals [10%] or more will shatter the ring it touches, but still protects Khold.

Activating Khold's FSpec while the rings are up will result in them flying forward (as in, he throws them with his FSpec) like a projectile and locking around the nearest enemy. While the rings are around the enemy, they serve the same purpose.

Now, a neat little combo can happen. If Khold does his DSpec again with the rings around the opponent, he can press any three directions. This can be left-left-up, up-left-right, down-up-down, ect. to deal the enemy [5%] and knockback equal to that of Marth's USpec for each direction in the direction he designates. This is essential to K.O.ing the opponent or just positioning them in a place you want.

[15%][13% chance of freezing]

The stage grows cold and even the ground beneath you freezes . . .


Standard Attacks


Standard Attack {Φ} Cold Stare

Kholdstare simply stares forward, and anyone staying in his line of vision for [¾ second] will be instantly frozen and take [5%]. By "line of vision" I mean being exactly perpendicular to Khold- smart opponents can jump to avoid this attack. This has no end lag or start up lag, and is hard to distinguish between this and his idle animation. The opponent must be in sight of Khold for this to work. It has infinite range.

[5%][100% chance of freezing]

Dash Attack {Φ} Cold Shoulder

Kholdstare uses his momentum to lean forward and ram the opponent with his shoulder, stopping afterward. This knocks the opponent a good distance, but it's even more useful for frozen foes, as it can knock an iced opponent all the way across Final Destination.

[9%][22% chance of freezing]

Forward Tilt {Φ} Blizzard Fist

Kholdstare reaches his left arm [1 SBB] out in front of him. Snow and ice will suddenly swirl around his hand, they being a Kirby sized disjointed hitbox around it. If an opponent gets hit by it they will receive a steady [5%] per second with a high chance of freezing while they are in the torrential blizzard. There is also a slight wind effect that draws the opponent in equal to that of the "pull" of a Urina. This is also a great way to freeze the opponent.

Like many of Khold's attacks, this has great start up lag but has horrible ending lag, and can leave him quite open, as it takes [¾ second] for the blizzard to clear. You can hold this in as long as you want, though, to postpone the inevitable ending lag.

[5% per second][70% chance of freezing]

Up Tilt {Φ} Arctic Shelter

Kholdstare swipes his hand through the air above him, creating a drop-through platform made of ice above him! The platform has the same dimensions of a Battlefield platform, but with a few differences. It is very slippery- pretend it is a platform affected by Khold's DTilt. It's also extremely fragile, but only from melee attacks and non-energy based projectiles, as it shatters at the slightest attack but completely absorbs things like Pit's Light Arrows.

If it shatters, it will deal [13%] to anyone nearby (with a chance of freezing, of course). If Khold moves out from under it, it will automatically shatter in a similar fashion. Use this in combination with Khold's FSmash to box yourself in!

[13%][34% chance of freezing]

Down Tilt {Φ} Permafrost

Kholdstare slams a foot down [8%] to make the ground beneath him freezes over. An area the size of a Battlefield platform will freeze first, immediately after doing this attack. If you continue to hold this attack in, more ground will freeze at the rate of [1 SBB] per second.

Frozen floor will have the same properties has the ice terrain in Brawl. Traction is reduced and chances of tripping are increased. In addition, this ice can freeze the opponent, but the chance of freezing only kicks in every other second (there's always a second in-between that opponents standing on it that they will have no chance of freezing). It melts after ten seconds.

[8%][14% chance of freezing (foot)][16% chance of freezing (floor)]

You grow numb as the bitter cold bites at you . . .


Smash Attacks


Forward Smash {Φ} Freeze Cracker

Kholdstare rears his arm back as if he was going to throw a baseball, and a ball of ice forms in his hand. It will grow at the rate and size of Lucario's Aura Sphere. After you release this smash, Khold will throw the cracker in any direction in front of him that you aim this throw in.

After you throw it, it will travel in a gravitational arc similar to the physics of throwing a ball in real life at the angle Khold throws it. It will explode with the same blast as a Bom-Omb when it touches anything. It deals [15%] with a high chance of freezing and excellent knockback to anyone caught in the blast.

There is very slight starting lag as Khold throws the cracker, but enough to dodge the projectile and get a quick hit in right afterward. here isn't any ending lag on this move, thankfully, but you must wait for the first cracker to explode before even starting to charge up another.

[15%][80% chance of freezing]

Up Smash {Φ} Impale

A large spike suddenly shoots out from Kholdstare's head, impaling those unlucky to be above him. It has the reach of Bowser's height, and is slightly less wide that Khold himself. An uncharged spike deals [5%] with a slight chance of freezing, a halfway charged spike deals [10%] with a better chance of freezing, and a fully charged spike deals [20%] with a large chance of freezing.

Now, what about Kecleon knockback? The spike sticks in the foe, sticking them to Khold. Khold can now move around with them stuck on his back. His movement is cut in half, though, and he cannot jump. If Khold does a Smash Attack with the opponent on him, he will throw them in that direction with good force. They will drop off after five seconds, unless they button mash out of it. This counts as a grab, although it won't stick in them if they freeze from the initial impaling.

[5%][25% chance of freezing]
[10%][50% chance of freezing]
[20%][75% chance of freezing]


Down Smash {Φ} Ice Wall

Kholdstare points at the ground in front of him for the charging of this attack. When you release it, a wall of ice as thick as [1 SBB] and as tall as Ganondorf slides out of the ground where he points, directly in front of him. The wall can freeze those who touch it and deals slight damage and knockback as well.

The wall will stay up until it is destroyed. An uncharged wall has [20 HP], a halfway charged wall has [40 HP], and a fully charged wall has [80 HP]. Khold can only have two walls on the field at the same time.

The lag at the beginning is very high, so as the wall comes up Khold is really vulnerable. Best use this while an opponent is frozen.

[5%][15% chance of freezing]

The blizzard pierces like nails . . .
Not even the sky is safe . . .


Aerial Attacks


Neutral Aerial {Φ} Snow Storm

A cloud of frost suddenly swirls around Khold, completely obscuring him from view. The cloud is as big as a Smart Bomb explosion and stays up for as long as Khold holds in the (A) button. Opponents caught in it take various damage, anywhere in the range of [2%-25%] with the chance of freezing being double the damage percent they take. The move as major ending lag, though, as the blizzard clears, equal to that of a Falcon Punch, and if he gets hit while doing it and it cancels, well . . . it won't be pretty. Very high risk.

[Various][Various chances of freezing]

Forward Aerial {Φ} Meteor Smash

Kholdstare points diagonally down like Wario's DTilt, and as fast as it as well. Right as he does this, a small stone-shaped block of ice the size of a Capsule forms directly above where Khold points, and shoots down at a great speed. The meteor will fall at the speed of Fox's fall speed until it hits something. Anyone who gets hit by it will be spiked downward with knockback equal to that of Toon Link's DAir. The start-up lag is slight, but again, the ending lag is atrocious.

So how does this fit into his playstyle? A meteor can break any ice walls it touches, allowing Khold relocate them if he wants.

[16%][10% chance of freezing]

Backward Aerial {Φ} Ice Vacuum

Kholdstare straightens up and a vortex of frost forms behind him. Enemies who get within [2 SBB] of Khold will be sucked into it. A Poison Mushroom version of their selves are seen inside Khold's ribcage, being tossed around inside as they take [3%] damage per bump.

After reaching [12%], they will be tossed out the front of Khold with great knockback. The opponent can button mash out of this, as it counts as a grab. The lag is actually high at the beginning and low on the end this time, in stark contrast to Khold's other attacks.

[12%][25% chance of freezing]

Up Aerial {Φ} Hail Storm

Kholdstare laughs as he points upward, and a small storm cloud appears above him. The cloud is as wide as the moving platform on Smashville, and will indeed move horizontally to follow Khold where ever he goes. Whenever an opponent freezes because of one of your attacks, the cloud will shoot shards of ice varying from the size of Sheik's needles to the shards produced by Zelda's NSpec. These deal [1-3%] damage and flinching knockback.

Even though the shards can freeze enemies themselves, they will not "stack" the frozen effect on enemies that are already frozen, if you misunderstand. This is explained in matches where more than two characters are fighting (ZOMG SCRUB!!1!1). Say one of your opponents is frozen. The cloud shoots out shards, which hit the non-frozen opponent. They happen to freeze the second opponent. The cloud shoots more ice shards, repeating the cycle. They can deal damage to frozen enemies, however.

The cloud will only shoot them for [2 seconds], and will disappear after three hail storms. Khold can have only one cloud out at a time, obviously. The start-up lag is harsh, but the payout is worth it.

[1-3%][14% chance of freezing]

Down Aerial {Φ} Lending a Hand

Kholdstare reaches down and says, "Need a hand?" Any opponents who are within grabbing distance below Khold will reach up and grab the hand with gratitude. If they take it, Khold will laugh evilly and kick the opponent in the midsection (dealing [13%] and okay diagonal forward-down knockback) and the hand will break off.

The victim will be in freefall until they throw the hand like an item. Anyone other than Khold hit by the hand take [6%] and have a slight chance of freezing. Quite a laggy attack, like most of Khold's attacks, but can result in easy K.O.s if used in the right situation.

[13%][6%][5% chance of freezing]

Death has you by its icy grip . . .


Pummel and Throws


Pummel {Φ} Sheer Cold

Kholdstare tightens his grip on the opponent as a flurry of ice and snow surrounds both him and the foe with a hitbox x1½ the size of Bowser, they being at the center of it. The opponent, and anyone standing by who gets hit by the blast, takes [6%] damage per ½ second for one second. You can only get in one pummel before they break free, though. The upside? They can't break out of the pummel and you can throw them during it.

Oh, and if your grabbed foe is frozen by this attack, Khold will throw them absentmindedly in front of him [3 SBBs] away.

[12%][21% chance of freezing]

Forward Throw {Φ} Belly Slide

Kholdstare blows a layer of frost down the front of his opponent's body and tosses them forward so that they slide on their belly. They can slide any distance between the whole length of Final Destination or a mere ⅓ the length of Final Destination, depending on how smooth the terrain is.

[2%][50% chance of freezing]

Backward Throw {Φ} Back Slide

Kholdstare blows a layer of frost down the back of his opponent's body and tosses them behind himself so that they slide on their backs. They can slide any distance between the whole length of Final Destination or a mere ⅓ the length of Final Destination, depending on how smooth the terrain is.

[2%][50% chance of freezing]

Up Throw {Φ} Ice Stinger

Kholdstare throws the opponent up at a great speed. When they get as high as twice Ganondorf's height, Khold will fire three shards of ice at them from his right palm. These are as small as Sheiks needles and deal [1-2%] damage each. They deal only flinching knockback.

[3-6%][12% chance of freezing]

Down Throw {Φ} Boot

Kholdstare throws the opponent down right at his feet and then kicks them forward with a rough kick, sending them spinning around like a top ½ the distance of Final Destination. Definitely too far away for a chaingrab. . . unless used in combination of a wall of some sort (Warlord: :bee:).

[5%][16% if playing against Warlord]

<3

The Ultimate Technique


Final Smash / Super Attack / Fatality {Φ} Care Bear Stare

Will he make a PPL reference? Or is it a mechanic booster?

You don’t have time to ponder such questions, as Kholdstare has just grabbed a Smash Ball.

A Care Bear comes in from the background, and Khold runs up to it... and absorbs it. His whole body turns pink, and his eye glows gold. Khold can now walk around like normal. However, if you press ... Khold will release a rainbow beam as thick as Lucario's Aura Storm directly in front of him, and it will stretch across the entire screen. Those hit by it take [30%] and super high knockback. This is almost always a OHKO if it hits.

[30%]

Yay generic attack that has nothing to do with Kholdstare at all.

Your last breath . . .
You give in to his unrelenting terror . . .
His . . . . . eye . . . . .


Playstyle


So how does this all fit together? First things first, you will want to set up an ice wall and a Substitute as soon as possible. The Substitute will act as backup support, and the ice wall will act as a safeguard in case the damage gets too tough and you want to jump behind it and hide. Once you have that life insurance set up, feel free to go to town on foes, trying to get them frozen. Spam Cold Stare for this, if you'd like, but they can jump to avoid this. No, you want to keep a good long ranged game instead of getting up close and personal. An optimal range is just keep them at "tipping" distance (Marth players know what I mean): not too far away, but just out of reach of the opponent.

Once you get the foe frozen, you have two options. You can use NSpec (Carve) and then Dash Attack or another melee to come in for the kill and knock them clear off the stage, or you can come in and use any of your superb grabs to rack up some major damage on them.

As for individual attacks go, FSpec (Substitute) is great as an annoyer, back up, a meat (ice?) shield, and much more. If you can get him to stay on one side of the stage when you get knocked off the other, you might could catch the foe by surprise and switch over to the other body, sacrificing your previous shell but landing a "SURPRISE ****" attack on the foe.

DSmash (Ice Wall) is also another great attack. Create one on each side of you and an UTilt platform above you and you have a fort. That reminds me of the mattress and blanket forts I built as a wee lad . . .

You can also "lock" your Substitute in there by switching to another body while in the fort. The substitute won't jump or attack the walls or ceiling, thus he can't get out. Plus, since he's still under the ceiling, it won't fall in on it.

Repeatedly bouncing a Carved ice block-encased foe against the Ice Wall is fun, too.

To put it short, Kholdstare is mostly based around immobilizing the foe. Just about every attack has a chance at freezing, and once they're frozen, it doesn't matter that his attacks are laggy and fairly situational. Unlike most heavyweights, he wants to play a cautious, long-range game, toying with projectiles, making a cage around himself now and then, and sending his Substitute forward to fight for him. Only once the foe is frozen will he approach and bring out one of his many grabs to rack up some significant damage. Many of Khold's attacks are situational, so there's a huge emphasis on careful spacing; you usually want to just barely poke out at the foe, and keep them from coming in and pressing their own offensive. You're like a glacier.

The world is . . . . .


Extras

Up Taunt {Φ} Taste Frost

Kholdstare screams in a high-pitched voice, "TASTE FROST!"

Side Taunt {Φ} Cyclops

Kholdstare faces the screen and his eye moves back and forth wildly. An echo as if a door had slammed in a long, empty hallway is heard over the music. You can use this to annoy Ludicolo players.

Down Taunt {Φ} (DHAT)

A Santa Claus hat appears out of nowhere on Khold's head and the iris his eye narrows, as if to say "I see what you did there."

Obligatory Sundance Victory Animation {Φ} Live Preformance

Kholdstare appears on a large YOSHI-SHAPED STAGE at night. The crowd is cheering and multicolored lights and smoke swarms around the stage. He is seated at a piano, and the camera shows MT and K.Rool with guitars. Sakurai is at the drums. The crowd roars as the camera swings around to show Sundance with the spotlight on him at the microphone. They are all dressed as members of Queen, but the drums say "lolchillinz" with a :bee: behind the text. They will then play one of the following songs (the chance of getting any certain song is random).

Bohemian Rhapsody
Another One Bites the Dust
Don't Stop Me Now
We Will Rock You
We Are the Champions

You must listen to the entire song. It is unskippable.





. . . . . cold



^lulz

A Special Thanks to K.Rool for proofing and tons of help on this set, and to Spire III for the amazing artwork!
 

goldwyvern

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
519
Location
Holy keys locked in the jet, Batman!
KHOLDSTARE: Khold, THIS is epic.

I applaude you finally finishing a set and making a better comeback than i did. Ive read most of the set and the wwhole thing is just great. An original yet simple mechanic was a great way to make this set that much more enjoyable. But it'd be easier to read if there was a section between the stats and the specials telling you a little bit about the mechanic.

Overall, I really liked this set and ill probably vote for it if i can vote at all <.<
 

Kholdstare

Nightmare Weaver
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,416
KHOLDSTARE: Khold, THIS is epic.

I applaude you finally finishing a set and making a better comeback than i did. Ive read most of the set and the wwhole thing is just great. An original yet simple mechanic was a great way to make this set that much more enjoyable. But it'd be easier to read if there was a section between the stats and the specials telling you a little bit about the mechanic.

Overall, I really liked this set and ill probably vote for it if i can vote at all <.<
Thanks for reading, GW!

Yeah... he doesn't have a "mechanic", but more of a bonus effect playstyle. The only thing I would consider a mechanic is the attacks having chances of freezing, which is basically his playstyle. Glad you liked it.
 

darth meanie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
452
Mario REMIX is a fairly excellent set. You're remixing not just any character, but Mr. Nintendo himself, so understandably pretty much any design decision is going to be questioned, either going to far or not going far enough.

And for example, the Jab is one of those odd moves. Using such a weird, situational move for a jab, especially on Mario, seems rather weird, and I strongly feel it would have been better with another button input.

Other than that, there's really not much that I can complain about. Yeah, you didn't change much, the fireballs are the same, but really, its better off that he's a remix of Mario than he is a complete reimagining. And that's one of the strong points of this set. All of the moves that you have tweaked or rebalanced to make Mario fit your playstyle better are great, and makes this almost by default one of the most competitively minded sets.

There was some good creativity here too. The hammers were a fun concept, and the stars were both an excellent twist and balancing system. You took Mario and reshaped him into your concept of how he should play fairly easily.

Several things seemed odd, the obscure Down Smash and odd Jab being two that caught my attention, and you could have elaborated a bit more on the moves that Mario already had, but other than that, you did an excellent job recreating Mario. Kudos.


Kholdstare is a set I don't think I've ever seen before- oh THAT Kholdstare! An excellent set from where I'm standing. You took the concept of freezing, and made some very excellent twists out of it.

I don't like your somewhat random freezing percentage points though. 22%? Really, not 20% or 25%? Also, for what its worth, you seem to have a more campy emphasis than your projectile game would show. Cold Stare and Ice Rings are hardly helpful behind a wall, and I see no reason for you to really box yourself in. You mention locking your Substitute up, but never actually explain why you would want to do that.

The Uair is unnecessarily complex and confusing, and how does the Up Smash freeze someone who is impaled. These are all some significant issues with the set, but its overall good. He's got a fun set of options, but you never really get into the detail of what to do with a carved enemy in certain scenarios.

Anyways though, its great to see such a strong set from you, despite my mostly critical comment. Good Job!
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,011
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
[size=+2]Kholdstare[/size]

BEST FINAL SMASH EVER, and the quotes are cool at the end of attacks. Anyway, I believe you posted the img of Kholdstare beforehand, but this one doesn't seem to show up, SO, yeh, put it in. Khold would be annoying to fight against due to his freezing, and the Neutral Special is quite an original attack as well as the Up-Special, so on, Khold's got a different playstyle to other people. Some of the stuff like damage was a bit out of order, but it's OK, though I have some other wandering thoughts about this as well. My only real complaint is TO GET THE PICTURE if you can...

Wait, never mind, I see the picture now. Ignore what I said before.
 

Agi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,120
Location
SE Washington
Kholdstare

Ah... the long-awaited Kholdstare moveset. Or rather, ANY Kholdstare moveset has been long-awaited, considering you sat out all last contest without making a single set. So, with that said, let's get on to the actual comment, shall we?

Alright, I've got to say this first off... while I love how you've moved to the music-in-headers crowd, you've got to work on your choices. Death Note music? Majora's Mask final battle? ...not quite. I'd have envisioned... well, icy, windy music, for one. Maybe the music from the battle with Blizzeta from Twilight Princess, for instance. On that note, you don't really need to double-dip with your headers' music selection. One is fine; I'd rather not think to myself that I'm skipping half the music you're offering.

Okay, now on to the tangible concerns. For one, as Ocon mentioned earlier, the Neutral A simply can't be pulled off, as is. At least it could be moved to a less awkward button input... an infinite-range move that requires opponents to remain in his line of sight and guarantees freezing? There's no middle ground on that. It'll be overpowered or worthless.
The Pummel is another eyebrow-raiser. Dedede's backthrow is enough, do we really want Khold to be able to do 24% from simply grabbing the foe? Balance issues arise many times throughout the set, a sure sign of someone rusty at set-making but eager to follow new trends.

Once again, this is coming off more negative than I'd intended. Seriously, I loved the freezing idea, but it seemed like it needed a lot more fleshing out. Never once do you mention the difficulty of escaping a freeze, nor do you mention whether or not you can stack freeze effects. It's details like these that can make or break a set. (oh, and DSmash + DThrow makes him absolutely broken).

I'm not sure how I'd rank Khold, to be honest. His playstyle intrigues me, but it's guaranteed through the tiniest of move interactions that he'd be ridiculously overpowered. You have moves such as the Neutral A that are entirely useless in a set that's so overwhelmingly strong, it's simply mind-boggling. Still, you showed the MYM community that you're still alive and well, so that's a start.





 

Kholdstare

Nightmare Weaver
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,416
Woo comments

Kholdstare is a set I don't think I've ever seen before- oh THAT Kholdstare! An excellent set from where I'm standing. You took the concept of freezing, and made some very excellent twists out of it.
Thanks! Now . . .

I don't like your somewhat random freezing percentage points though. 22%? Really, not 20% or 25%? Also, for what its worth, you seem to have a more campy emphasis than your projectile game would show. Cold Stare and Ice Rings are hardly helpful behind a wall, and I see no reason for you to really box yourself in. You mention locking your Substitute up, but never actually explain why you would want to do that.
Well . . . I got an idea if I wanted it to be high, low, or mid chance of freezing, and I just put in a random number around that level. I didn't really have a playstyle in mind until, like, halfway through the set, so some moves like that may confuse you. Locking up a Substitute would be nice if you want to just keep it in one place instead of it going all over the place and attacking the foe.

The Uair is unnecessarily complex and confusing, and how does the Up Smash freeze someone who is impaled. These are all some significant issues with the set, but its overall good. He's got a fun set of options, but you never really get into the detail of what to do with a carved enemy in certain scenarios.
I'm sorry about how wordy that was- it was confusing for me to get it right, too. Basically, it follows him around and shoots out a projectile when someone freezes. The USmash will not freeze someone if they are impaled, it will only freeze with the initial hit, which won't stick the opponent to Khold if they do freeze. Carving the enemy is entirely situational, but you wanna generally use it around the edge and hit them off of it.

Anyways though, its great to see such a strong set from you, despite my mostly critical comment. Good Job!
Thanks, again!

[size=+2]Kholdstare[/size]

BEST FINAL SMASH EVER, and the quotes are cool at the end of attacks. Anyway, I believe you posted the img of Kholdstare beforehand, but this one doesn't seem to show up, SO, yeh, put it in. Khold would be annoying to fight against due to his freezing, and the Neutral Special is quite an original attack as well as the Up-Special, so on, Khold's got a different playstyle to other people. Some of the stuff like damage was a bit out of order, but it's OK, though I have some other wandering thoughts about this as well. My only real complaint is TO GET THE PICTURE if you can...
Thanks, I wanted to put in a wacky and irrelevant Final Smash. Ultimate Showdown was playing at the time. . . As for the image, you seem to be encountering a glitch, as others can see it just fine. I intentionally made Khold annoying to fight. Because I'm annoying myself. What do you mean by the damage is out of order?

Thanks for the positive feedback, and for reading the set.

Kholdstare

Ah... the long-awaited Kholdstare moveset. Or rather, ANY Kholdstare moveset has been long-awaited, considering you sat out all last contest without making a single set. So, with that said, let's get on to the actual comment, shall we?
(sry) I was in a drought. With writers block. Plus, the chat added to my procrastination as well XD

Alright, I've got to say this first off... while I love how you've moved to the music-in-headers crowd, you've got to work on your choices. Death Note music? Majora's Mask final battle? ...not quite. I'd have envisioned... well, icy, windy music, for one. Maybe the music from the battle with Blizzeta from Twilight Princess, for instance. On that note, you don't really need to double-dip with your headers' music selection. One is fine; I'd rather not think to myself that I'm skipping half the music you're offering.
Changed it, as per your comment in the chat.

Okay, now on to the tangible concerns. For one, as Ocon mentioned earlier, the Neutral A simply can't be pulled off, as is. At least it could be moved to a less awkward button input... an infinite-range move that requires opponents to remain in his line of sight and guarantees freezing? There's no middle ground on that. It'll be overpowered or worthless.
The Pummel is another eyebrow-raiser. Dedede's backthrow is enough, do we really want Khold to be able to do 24% from simply grabbing the foe? Balance issues arise many times throughout the set, a sure sign of someone rusty at set-making but eager to follow new trends.
I'll go change the NA later, I might add limited range or something. . . The pummel . . . I might nerf that damage as well.

Once again, this is coming off more negative than I'd intended. Seriously, I loved the freezing idea, but it seemed like it needed a lot more fleshing out. Never once do you mention the difficulty of escaping a freeze, nor do you mention whether or not you can stack freeze effects. It's details like these that can make or break a set. (oh, and DSmash + DThrow makes him absolutely broken).
Well, I figured people will think it has the same difficulty as freezing from a Freezie, because that's what I had envisioned. You can't stack freeze effects. (and I intentionally made him high tier by giving him a chaingrab :p)

I'm not sure how I'd rank Khold, to be honest. His playstyle intrigues me, but it's guaranteed through the tiniest of move interactions that he'd be ridiculously overpowered. You have moves such as the Neutral A that are entirely useless in a set that's so overwhelmingly strong, it's simply mind-boggling. Still, you showed the MYM community that you're still alive and well, so that's a start.
Thanks for the comment, Agi. I'm just happy to have made a set again to try to compensate for never finishing a set.
 

SixrchBattosai

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
39
Location
With my boyfriend...who's moving ;A;
Kholdstare, your Kholdstare set is a character I would use a lot. Mainly because it's an ice-related character.

Anyway, it's an aesthetically pleasing moveset.

The attacks seem balanced, detailed, and very well-explained.

When I read the Final Smash, I was like, "wtf...PPL reference? -_-;" and when I read the Upward Taunt, I...I have no real way of explaining it...Well, I'll try.

My insides melted for about a second, but then returned to normal then froze in place then began shaking violently. I literally almost threw up. >_> Mind you that this all happened within a matter of a second.

Nice job! ^_^ Kholdstare's a really cool moveset. No pun intended. Really.

I, along with many other MYMers, have been waiting a VERY long time for another Kholdstare moveset. Wait...was I even here for one of your movesets? Whatever. I'm just glad to see a set from you. Great set!

On a note about my own sets: After my upcoming moveset, Cezario, there won't be any movesets for a while. My scanner was taken, as well as the rest of the downstairs stuff that wasn't brought up by the workers. So, until a month is up, there won't be any more movesets from me. >_>;;; Sorry if anyone was looking forward to new sets.
Yeah f*ckin' right.
 

Junahu

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
893
Location
Shropshire Slasher
Mario Sunshine Remicks: I'm probably one of the few people here who thinks Mario didn't need remaking. He's the most "pick up and play" character in smash, all his attacks are basic but still iconic enough for a casual player to be able to differentiate between them. Remixing Mario, is almost as controversial as remixing Ryu. I assumed, since you are Ocon after all, that you would give the original set the right amount of reverence, and not just cave in and shoe horn classic props into it...

lol. It's a "remix". Of course it's going to have badly placed props!

I would have certainly forgiven the premise, if it weren't for the seemingly shallow execution. Why is Sunshine constantly used for inspiration when Galaxy, World and New have plenty of subtler and better ideas? And why are there so many props? You could have easily filled the moveset with the various acrobatic skills Mario uses in his games (punch punch kick combo shouldn't have been replaced, dash attack should have been "dive foreward and slide on stomach", ground pound should have been either d-air or d-special etc etc...)
I'll give you Hammer strike, Head stomp, Flame Burst and Cape, those are great moves you should be proud of. The rest of the moves are either awkwardly placed, or contradictory to your original intent, which was to properly capture the essense of Mario.
The key word there is "essense". As nostalgic as Kuribo's Shoe and Yoshi Hatchlings are to read about, they are external props that do not define Mario at all.

I thought the way Mario used FLUDD in brawl was excessive and exploitative, but Mario remix takes the concept way beyond the boundries of 'tolerable'. FLUDD was not a tool or a power up, but a character; one with a voice, a personality, and a relevance to Mario that was strictly limited to Sunshine. And as far as, flight enabling powerups go, FLUDD was literally the worst one.

And yeah, this comment is turning into another case of Junahu ignoring the set itself in lieu of ranting about the minor stuff. It's probably just because I dislike the concept of "character-remixes" on a fundamental level. Or maybe it's just because I'm a spiteful old man who refuses to let a set go with nothing but positive comments.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,855
Location
Laughing at you
WARIO REMIX
You already know my opinions on this set due to how much we’ve talked about it in the chat, but may as well broadcast it to the rest of the world, I suppose. I honestly didn’t mind the FLUDD seeing it was an actual recurring prop, neither the smashes because they were used on actual somewhat significant button inputs, were still cool, and made sense (Though the shoe is borderline). Of course, I hate the jab, but who doesn’t? It’s just one bloody move. That’s like complaining about one of Rool’s uairs (Oh wait – I still do that anyway.). Anyway, this is a surprising step-up in originality for you and is without a doubt the main reason people are noticing this set over your previous ones. You can have all the playstyle in the world, but all the commoners will still flock to the flashy attacks, it seems (See: Tycoon).

Of course, you haven’t completely given yourself over to these people, thankfully, trying to appeal to both sides. Wario flows better then I expected him to. I was highly skeptical of him being able to when one of the first move you showed me was that horrendous jab, but considering the ridiculous amount of lengthy combos you’ve got there, I can’t really argue. The FLUDD being a mini-mechanic within the moveset also helped.

You already know the main thing I have against him is that he flows into something very boring – a generic (Non-heavyweight) combo character/gimper. Sure, we don’t have any in this MYM so far while we have plenty of heavyweight combo characters, but that’s because it’s such an incredibly boring playstyle to do. I now realize –why- I didn’t feel any flow as I read throughout the actual moves. . .It’s just a bunch of fast attacks. Really, that’s it. That’s the amazing flow. Just making a bunch of fast and weak attacks. It’s far from an attention grabber, and nearly anybody could make a playstyle like it, seeing that’s the only thing you really have to do (Generic fast weak attacks, many of which you kept from Wario) and can still get away with other zanier random attacks that have nothing to do with the playstyle (Smashes) while you can throw in a playstyle section at the end to tie it all up.

So let’s break it down. He has some original moves and he flows, but it’s only in hindsight that he does it as you see very little references to playstyle outside the generic “good for comboing/gimping” throughout the set, and he flows into something terribly boring. If nothing else playstyle wise, he still actually remains in the same playstyle as Wario mains, so I can cut you some slack, but I refuse to rank this over Vaati’s far more unique playstyle.
There, Junahu. Now he has another negative comment. And this is probably the last comment it’ll get anyway, Ocon, so no worries about the other copypasting my comments.

GREAT TIGER
So you finally made a moveset? Alright then. Guess I better get packing.




Now that I’m back from my 2 year Mormon mission, this is a pretty good set. Far better then I expected after you long MYM hiatus. There’s plenty of creative moves, that certainly isn’t the problem. This resembles a MYM 4 set in that regard, but on the other hand this still has a lot of very juicy move interactions that make for some excellent playstyle bits. Boxing a substitute in a cage of ice and chain throwing against said cage are big highlights, as well as freezing somebody, carving them out via neutral special, then bashing them away with a dashing attack over a bunch of slick icy terrain from your dtilt. . .There’s a lot of amazing stuff here.

The organization is also extremely pleasing, far superior to any mere Rool organization. Those little bits that look like his eye inbetween the move names/button inputs is brilliant and combined with the quotes, musical headers, and the chance to freeze at the end of each move much like the percents really all combines to give this moveset a very unique flavor.

And now we come to the bad. The moveset is ridiculously rushed, which is ironic, considering you could’ve theoretically been working on this moveset over the entirety of MYM 5 and all of MYM 6 thus far. I shouldn’t even have to say anything about the final smash or the mirrored bthrow, but there are also a few moves that are just random and offer little in the terms of playstyle. Combine this with the intentionally broken dthrow, moves which incorrectly reference Great Tiger’s other button inputs, and awkwardly placed button inputs (His main projectile is fsmash?), this really feels extremely slapped together. It’s obvious you were trying to just get a set out at all, but given more time this could’ve been another Metal Man, hopefully minus the hype.

I’m also not a fan of the luck involved in the freezing percents and would’ve preferred if he just had a couple moves that had a guaranteed chance to freeze. It would’ve helped better straighten out his playstyle if he had something he could constantly freeze with instead of him just randomly using moves and hoping for a freeze with the rather awkward random freeze chances, which certainly don’t help in alleviating the moveset’s very rushed feel.

Now then, due to being able to rush out sets in small periods of time as this moveset has proved, you have no excuse to be making so few any longer. You’re perfectly capable of it, you merely need to get off your *** and do it. Of course, I’d prefer it if you took your time more with the next one, but that statement is just BEGGING for you to not release anything more until MYM 8. . .
 

Kholdstare

Nightmare Weaver
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,416
GREAT TIGER
So you finally made a moveset? Alright then. Guess I better get packing.
I will actually get around to making Tiger, you know. . .

Now that I’m back from my 2 year Mormon mission, this is a pretty good set. Far better then I expected after you long MYM hiatus. There’s plenty of creative moves, that certainly isn’t the problem. This resembles a MYM 4 set in that regard, but on the other hand this still has a lot of very juicy move interactions that make for some excellent playstyle bits. Boxing a substitute in a cage of ice and chain throwing against said cage are big highlights, as well as freezing somebody, carving them out via neutral special, then bashing them away with a dashing attack over a bunch of slick icy terrain from your dtilt. . .There’s a lot of amazing stuff here.
In other words, MYM4 had more originality? :p Thanks.

The organization is also extremely pleasing, far superior to any mere Rool organization. Those little bits that look like his eye inbetween the move names/button inputs is brilliant and combined with the quotes, musical headers, and the chance to freeze at the end of each move much like the percents really all combines to give this moveset a very unique flavor.
Better than any mere Rool organization? :bee: I do really hope more people will put music in headers. Thanks again. Now. . . the bad.

And now we come to the bad. The moveset is ridiculously rushed, which is ironic, considering you could’ve theoretically been working on this moveset over the entirety of MYM 5 and all of MYM 6 thus far. I shouldn’t even have to say anything about the final smash or the mirrored bthrow, but there are also a few moves that are just random and offer little in the terms of playstyle. Combine this with the intentionally broken dthrow, moves which incorrectly reference Great Tiger’s other button inputs, and awkwardly placed button inputs (His main projectile is fsmash?), this really feels extremely slapped together. It’s obvious you were trying to just get a set out at all, but given more time this could’ve been another Metal Man, hopefully minus the hype.
Rushed? I didn't rush it at all . . . I just got started to work on it about three weeks ago, plenty of time. I INTENTIONALLY made the Final Smash that way, to satire K.Rool's "Super Attacks" (most notably Kangaskhan and Hippo's), hurr durr. BThrow. . . I just suck at making them (sry) I do agree I made many irrelevant moves. The thing is, I had no idea of playstyle going into this moveset. Please point out to me where I "incorrectly reference Great Tiger’s other button inputs", as these are most likely typos.

I’m also not a fan of the luck involved in the freezing percents and would’ve preferred if he just had a couple moves that had a guaranteed chance to freeze. It would’ve helped better straighten out his playstyle if he had something he could constantly freeze with instead of him just randomly using moves and hoping for a freeze with the rather awkward random freeze chances, which certainly don’t help in alleviating the moveset’s very rushed feel.
That. . . that sounds a whole lot better. Really, I don't know why I didn't do that instead.

Now then, due to being able to rush out sets in small periods of time as this moveset has proved, you have no excuse to be making so few any longer. You’re perfectly capable of it, you merely need to get off your *** and do it. Of course, I’d prefer it if you took your time more with the next one, but that statement is just BEGGING for you to not release anything more until MYM 8. . .
I will take my time with my next set (the REAL Great Tiger) and focus more on playstyle. It's possibly my greatest weakness (besides balance), and I had difficulty with it in this set. Thanks for the comment, Warlord.

Kholdstare, your Kholdstare set is a character I would use a lot. Mainly because it's an ice-related character.

Anyway, it's an aesthetically pleasing moveset.

The attacks seem balanced, detailed, and very well-explained.

When I read the Final Smash, I was like, "wtf...PPL reference? -_-;" and when I read the Upward Taunt, I...I have no real way of explaining it...Well, I'll try.

My insides melted for about a second, but then returned to normal then froze in place then began shaking violently. I literally almost threw up. >_> Mind you that this all happened within a matter of a second.

Nice job! ^_^ Kholdstare's a really cool moveset. No pun intended. Really.

I, along with many other MYMers, have been waiting a VERY long time for another Kholdstare moveset. Wait...was I even here for one of your movesets? Whatever. I'm just glad to see a set from you. Great set!
Thanks for the feedback. So you're not even hiding the fact that you're . . . just don't let the mods catch you. Especially Ocon.

The Final Smash was a reference to that taunt, which is always lulz. You almost threw up. . . glad to know that.

Thanks again, to everyone who read.
 

MarthTrinity

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,954
Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
Kholdstare

Well lemme say right off the bat that I'm proud of you droogy for coming through with this set; it certainly shows that you actually can get a set done and have it be of pretty **** good quality. Off the bat, this set doesn't have the lulz that Anon had, but it's clearly, without a doubt your set of highest quality. It's quite clear that you tried quite hard on this one and it shows.

So what ideas do I like? I love that down air and almost all of the smashes. It's a shame I didn't comment earlier because now it seems that I'm just rehashing what everyone else said. I see their complaints (about balance and some of the moves being impossible to actually work into a set) but I still appreciate this moveset as something fun to read.

So once again, congrats droogy, you did a great job here (H)
 

KingK.Rool

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
1,810
Thanks and felicitations, oh my droog, for finally getting this set out. You already know what I think of it, so I'll just reiterate here for all to know: it's a hell of a creative, fun set. Its weaknesses are detail and balance, and both have been hugely improved from Kholdstare 1.0, leaving little to quibble about. Very fond of this set, and it really shows that we gave up on you too soon after all.

I've also mentioned what I think of Mario Remix, so just so this page isn't ALL negative for him: it's probably Ocon's best set, ably encapsulating the feel of Mario at present and fusing it with a ton of classic Mario moments that he really ought have had all along. Unlike Junahu, I'm uninclined to complain about the reliance on FLUDD - I really do love Super Mario Sunshine - and unlike Warlord, I appreciate a simple playstyle now and again; Mario may do little besides combo and gimp, but that just adds to his vaguely retro appeal.

And there should be no aspersions cast on his beautiful organization. I applaud you for that.
 

MarthTrinity

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,954
Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
#128​

"Don't let me see
RED..."

= Tauros =



Tauros, the Wild Bull Pokemon, is a Pokemon from the first generation of games. Being found exclusively in the Safari Zone (and rarely at that) Tauros was a hard catch for even for the most skilled of trainers. Excelling in the speed stat, Tauros is a surprisingly fast powerhouse. According to the Pokedex, Tauros always feels the need to rampage about; if it’s unable to, it becomes self-destructive until it has calmed itself down. Tauros remains one of the few Generation 1 Pokemon to have no pre-evolutions or evolutions; his female counterpart, Miltank, however was introduced in Generation 2.

In Smash, Tauros, much like Ivysaur has the distinct disadvantage of having no real useable arms. Unlike Ivysaur however, Tauros has no vines to work as makeshift hands…he does however have more than a few tricks to make up for this.


| Stats |

Weight: 6/10
Power: 7/10
Attack Speed: 4/10
Fall Speed: 8/10
Ground Speed: 8/10
Traction: 3/10
Jump: 3/10

As you can tell, Tauros is exceptional when it comes to both power and speed but severely disadvantaged when it comes to recovery. Several of Tauros’ attacks are very quick but most of his more powerful KO moves have a nasty bit of lag. Anyway, your best bet with Tauros is to stay grounded as much as possible; taking to the air too much could end up with him off stage where he can be easily gimped…the only problem with staying on the ground with Tauros is his less than impressive traction; once he’s started running, it’s difficult to stop!


| Specials |

Neutral B: Bull Gore
Taking a stance much like the one in the animated .gif shown previously, Tauros begins pawing at the ground, kicking up dirt and snorting. After a second, Tauros charges forward the distance of Fox’s Side B at the speed of Pikachu’s dash and then gores his opponent upwards delivering 14% and medium/high knockback. On the downside, if Tauros misses with this attack he’ll skid to a halt and shake his head adding about a second end lag to this move.

However, there’s more to this move than it originally seems; by holding the B button, Tauros will hold the charging stance, exhaling steam from his nose for each second the move is held. Not only can this be good for mindgames as a delayable attack, but if released at a certain moment, this attack will become all the more devastating. If the B button is released the MOMENT Tauros exhales steam, Tauros will rear back, kicking wildly into the air before dropping to all fours again and dashing the distance ¾’s of Final Destination forward. This makes the move considerably laggier, but it also increases the damageof the attack to 20% with high knockback and great priority (as opposed to the mediocre priority it previously had). This move in either form acts as one of Tauros’ better KO moves despite being incredibly hit or miss…make sure you can pull this off before attempting it and don’t forget that you can always stall it. Bull Gore KO’s Mario from the center of Final Destination at 65-95% depending on whether or not you use the more powerful version or not.

Side B: Rage
Didn’t have enough Rage with the other Bull set this contest? Well, Tauros is here to deliver some more! Tauros’ Rage works differently than Bald Bull’s however; it only builds when Tauros is attacked while using his Side B.. Upon activation of the Side B, Tauros leans forward and arcs his back (the move’s ½ second of start up lag), his three tails standing perfectly upright for a second and a half (with half a second end lag). If struck while in this stance, Tauros will bellow and shake his head, steam now visibly coming from is nostrils, but he’ll stand his ground, receiving full damage from the opponent’s attack but no knockback.

Now…what does this do exactly other than simply irritate Tauros? Simple; the next attack Tauros uses will deal half the damage of the attack Tauros was just hit by in addition to how much damage it would normally do. For instance, say Tauros is hit with an attack that deals 20% and he uses Rage. He receives no knockback and begins blowing steam…now if he uses his Bull Gore at this time, he’ll do the base damage of 14% plus an additional 10%. While this may seem a tad unbalanced, the end lag for the Rage induced move is increased by half a second making this another high risk/high payoff move.

Down B: Eye To Eye
A similar move to Rage but it’s oh so much more crucial to Tauros’ damage racking game! Tauros glares forward harshly, much like Mewtwo’s Melee Down B…but if he makes eye contact with his foe, they aren’t stunned…much rather Tauros becomes enraged! Tauros begins to glow a faint reddish color and now has three seconds to attack his opponent! Every second that passes adds an additional 5% to Tauros’ next attack (hence how it’s similar to Rage in the damage increasing aspect). However, if Tauros waits four seconds after successfully using this move, he’ll become so enraged that he’ll start thrashing about, dealing no damage or anything; he’s essentially a sitting duck now!

However, Tauros does have the potential to add an extra 15% to his next attack providing he can pull off his Down B and the follow up attack successfully…use Tauros’ speed and aggression to chase down your foe and punish them! The start up lag and range for this move are easily comparable to Mewtwo’s Melee Down B but without the end lag (and obviously no stunning effect on the opponent).

Up B: Jump Over The Moon
While it may not be the most mind blowingly awesome move ever, Tauros’ Up B recovery is a vital to his character in more ways than one. Kicking off the ground (or air if that situation is needed) Tauros leaps up and forward effectively traveling the horizontal and vertical distance of Diddy Kong’s Side B. Not very impressive eh? Well, it gets better.

Like Diddy’s Side B, this attack acts as a grab (a normal grab as opposed to an attack grab with Diddy’s). If Tauros lands on the opponent, he’ll pin them to the ground like normal allowing Tauros access to all of his throws and his pummel. On the ground, this attack is a great set up for a forward throw > Neutral B combo, but don’t get cocky; if you miss this, you’ll be eating a forward smash for sure with the ¾’s of a second end lag. Also, it’s possible to Taurocide with this move if it lands over a gap…regardless, the move itself does no damage or knockback, so disjointed hitboxes and projectiles will EASILY be able to gimp this as a recovery...



Neutral A: Horn Attack
Tauros begins rapidly thrashing his head from side to side in an attempt to spear his opponents with his horns! Tapping the A button causes Tauros to continuously thrash his head from side to side. Each strike from his horns causes 6% and “get away from me” knockback and great priority...in fact, Tauros’ head isn’t even a hurtbox during this attack so he can use it to nullify smaller energy based projectiles (like Fox’s lasers, Pit’s arrows etc.).

Dash Attack: Tail Whip
Tauros lets out a cry as his three tails begin furiously whipping him, increasing his movement speed to that of Captain Falcon’s dash. During this time, Tauros’ body acts as a moderate priority hitbox that deals 9% and low horizontal knockback (KO’s at 190%). Upon dashing at this speed for the length of a Battlefield platform, Tauros will spin around quickly, striking foes before him (or behind him now that he’s turned full circle) with three quick hits, one from each tail. Each hit deals 3% and low knockback (except the third hit that deals low/medium knockback).

Unfortunately (or fortunately maybe) this leaves you facing away from your opponent meaning you can dash away immediately afterwards…great for keeping on the move.


| Tilts |

Side Tilt: Grrsnarl
Breathing in deeply, Tauros exhales a puff of steam from his nose that reaches one Kirby width/height before him. Any opponents hit by this puff of steam enter a state similar to that of their grab release (so essentially a shocked stance where they’re unable to do anything but far shorter than a shield break) animation. This stunned animation lasts one second, one valuable, valuable second for Tauros.

Despite doing no damage or knockback, this attack is excellent for stunning your opponent long enough to safely land Tauros’ short range grab safely which in turn can be used to bury foes which of course leads to Tauros’ laggier KO moves. An absolute must for any Tauros main to use the character effectively.

Up Tilt: Tail Spears
Tauros leans forward and arches his back, his tails shooting sharply upwards striking above him and diagonally upward to both sides. Tauros tails shoot out quite quickly and act as strangely shaped hitboxes. This move is excellent for defending against aerial attacks. The tails deal 8% and low knockback that kills in the upper 200%’s.

The only real notable thing about this move is that the very tips of the tails act as sweetspots; hitting one will increase the knockback of this move to moderate knockback that KO’s at around 200%.

Down Tilt: Grazin’
Tauros looks downwards and begins feeding on the grass below him…that is, providing you're standing on grass that’s actually in the stage! Yes, this is no prop move, there actually has to be grass on the stage in order for Tauros to use the main use of this move. If you’re standing on a patch of grass, Tauros will begin eating it, restoring 1% every half a second. Because he’s a bull and he’s just kind of…mindlessly grazing, Tauros can graze on the one patch of grass indefinitely without it ever vanishing. Obviously however, your opponent isn’t going to let you do this so it’s best to use in between stocks or while being guarded by a partner. Little start up lag and no end lag; once you release the A button, Tauros stops grazing.

However, if there’s no grass on the ground, Tauros will become enraged and stomps around violently, much like DK’s Down B. This causes 3% per hit and can be used indefinitely (although the priority, range and knockback are all poor). This form of the move also has considerably more end lag.



Side Smash: Thrash
Tauros enters a mad rage and begins thrashing about violently! Once the charge is released, Tauros thrashes his head forward, smashing foes away with a high priority, medium-high knockback strike that deals 12-19%. Immediately after that, Tauros kicks straight backwards, striking behind him with a weaker (yet still pretty darn powerful!) kick that deals high knockback and 10-16%. Both strikes reach about as far as a Kirby length away from Tauros but the move (like most of Tauros’ stronger moves) is coupled with high start up lag and punishable ending lag if it misses. Fortunately, Tauros has the advantage of having a side smash that hits to both sides!

Up Smash: Bull Rocket
Tauros crouches down and shakes his head. Upon release of the Smash, Tauros shoots straight upwards like a rocket one Ganondorf height upward. This move deals high knockback and 15-20% depending on the charge. It also has considerably high priority (but of course a nasty bit of lag…). Now what’s the downside here? Well, the only hitbox here is Tauros’ head meaning that opponents have to be pretty much directly above Tauros in order for it to work properly. Fortunately, this move eats through almost all down aerials (except maybe Thunder Stomp) so you should be able to stop approaches easily with this attack..

Down Smash: Dust Clouds
Tauros rears back once again, facing the screen and kicking wildly into the air as he charges this attack. Once released, Tauros slams violently into the ground, kicking up large clouds of dust to both sides! A C-Sticked down smash will get you clouds the size of Kirby whereas a fully charged down smash will create clouds the size of the Koopa King himself! This attack has great priority but has some nasty start up lag making it a difficult move to land if you don’t plan ahead…also, the dust clouds only last as long as the visual stars last after Dedede’s hit the ground with his Up B.

So what exactly do these dust clouds do? Well, if an opponent touches one of these clouds, they’ll start coughing a lot and take about 2-4% from their coughing fit. Fortunately, they’ll cough for about a second and a half so you can easily use this move to land a forward throw and then go for a KO move! As an added note, if the opponent is lined up with Tauros’ body when he slams downward, he’ll deal 4% and low horizontal knockback.



Neutral Air: Bull O’ Nine-Tails
Tauros turns to face the screen and begins whipping his tails wildly in all directions! This attack is great for racking up damage as it’s one of Tauros’ faster moves, unfortunately it causes little knockback, has little priority and doesn’t have much range at all. It does however have the advantage of being quick and random; it could easily screw up your tactics, but just as easily screw up the opponent’s too! Each tail strike deals 2% and can hit up to four times per use (but you can use it quite a bit really…)

Forward Air: Head Spike
Tauros rears his head back and then swings it forward, violently crashing into his foe! If sweetspotted (the sweetspot being his horns), the opponent is sent hurtling downwards with a fierce spike as well as receiving 12%. If the move is sourspotted, the opponent will simply receive light forward knockback and 6%.

Needless to say the best use for this move is to force your opponent to the ground where Tauros really excels; if the opponent is trying an aggressive air game, send them back to the ground where Tauros can have an easier time.

Backward Air: Tail Slasher
Tauros’ tails begin whipping violently behind him, striking foes numerous times with multiple weak hits! This move has surprisingly long range but low priority and knockback. This attack is best used for damage racking and spacing, striking up to five times, each strike dealing 2%.

Up Air: Horn Driver
Tauros thrusts his head upwards in an attempt to skewer his foe with his sharp horns! If he connects with this attack, he’ll flip around and plummet to the ground, foe first! The initial strike deals a low 3% but once the foe hits the ground they’ll take 8% and knockback that KO’s at 190%. This move can also be used to Taurocide if used over the edge of the stage. One of Tauros’ faster moves but it lacks in range, striking only directly above Tauros. Fortunately, it counts as an attack grab so its priority is great.

Down Air: Earth Shaker
Tauros leans forward in mid-air and rockets downward at a frightening pace! During this, Tauros’ body acts as a high priority hitbox that, if an opponent is beneath him, spikes quite well. Once Tauros hits the ground, two dust clouds the size of the Hot Head item will be kicked up as well, stunning for the length of Tauros down smash. The fall itself deals 6% to opponents while the dust clouds will cause 2-4% to an opponent. Unfortunately, this attack suffers from a second of end lag so you won’t have much time to start on the offensive; this is really only useful for helping Tauros escape being juggled.



Grab: Tauros’ grab is incredibly close range (considering he has no arms to stretch out and grab the foe with). Swinging his head violently downward, Tauros attempts to pin the foe down with his horns. This rivals Ganondorf’s as the shortest grab in the game…but it also lasts longer (grab length, not lag) than other grabs by one second. However…if Tauros misses with his grab, he ends up slamming his head into the ground, dealing 2% to himself…
Pummel: Get The Horns
You mess with the bull, you get the horns! While pinned to the ground, Tauros shakes the foe from side to side, scraping them along the ground. This deals a solid 3% and you’ll usually have time to fit in about two or three of these before the opponent escapes from Tauros’ extended grab time.

Forward Throw: Grounder
Releasing the foe from being pinned beneath his horns, Tauros rears back and then slams down violently atop the opponent, driving them into the ground much like Donkey Kong’s Side B. This attacks deals a solid 6% and no knockback. It does however leave the opponent trapped in the ground for a while; basic grounded situation applies here, the more damage the opponent has, the harder it is for them to break free. Tauros' prime set up for his KO moves.

Back Throw: Run Down
Tauros begins running in place, trampling his foe under hoof before dashing forward, sending his opponent shooting out from beneath him backward with low knockback (killing at 275%) and 11% damage. This throw is perfect for escaping from foes who’re putting too much pressure on you; after the throw is complete, Tauros enters his dashing animation and will continue to dash like normal so long as the control stick his held forward (so basically he keeps dashing, simple as that).

Up Throw: Wild Rodeo
Flinging the opponent out from beneath him and onto his back, Tauros begins rampaging around the stage with the foe clinging to his back! After two and a half seconds of this, Tauros flings his opponent off his back and into the air, dealing 8% and decent knockback (that KO’s at 160%).

There are however a few quirks to this attack. Like Bowser’s Side B, if the opponent has less damage than Tauros, they’ll be able to control where Tauros is charging about! Obviously, this CAN be used in that case to lead Tauros into a trap (Snake’s mines anyone?) but it CANNOT be used to lead Tauros off the edge. Regardless of who is “in control,” if Tauros reaches the edge of the stage or platform, he’ll buck the opponent forward! That’ll teach ‘em to try and make you self-destruct! Stages with walk-off edges however…in that case, expect a Taurocide…

Down Throw: Reverse Rodeo
Well here’s a weird sight…pressing his head to his opponent’s stomach, Tauros begins to drag the opponent along the ground, scraping their back painfully across the stage! Ouch! Unlike the Up throw, this painful looking move only lasts a second and a half before Tauros jerks his head forward, sending the opponent flying with 10% and low horizontal knockback (that kills at 205%). Also unlike Tauros’ up throw, only Tauros can chose which direction he’ll begin running in; the opponent is trapped for the ride no matter where they’re going! Like the up throw however, self-destructs are a no-no except on stages with walk-off edges; reaching an edge will only cause Tauros to toss the opponent away sooner.



Bulls on Parade

Tauros is glowing; he must’ve grabbed a Smash Ball! With a tap of the B button, the camera zooms in on Tauros who lets out a loud moo and rears backwards. At this, a whole herd of Tauros (they just kind of…appear while the screen is focused on Tauros) will come stampeding from the left side of the screen to the right! Now, they surprisingly do no knockback…but they’ll carry any opponent’s unfortunate enough to be in their path away much like the Piplup Pokeball albeit slightly easier to escape (so it’s not instant death).

The herd of Tauros move at about Bowser’s running speed and will deal 4% per second to any opponent trapped within their ranks! Not only is this Final Smash effective for sweeping foes off stage, but it can add up a nice chunk of damage to them! Unfortunately, this Final Smash can be dodged quite easily if you’re on a higher platform…however, the Tauros do have a slight suction effect to them. If you’re on one of the lower platforms of Battlefield, you’ll end up getting sucked into the stampede! As an added little bonus, Tauros is free to do whatever while this Final Smash is going on! Try and knock enemies into the warpath! This Final Smash lasts as long as it takes for the Tauros to make it across stage. And as another note, the Tauros WILL jump if they have to to reach the other side of the stage, so if they run into a wall (for instance the buildings on Onett) they will jump over them…


| Taunts |

Up Taunt: Moooove It Or Lose It!
Tauros lets out a loud moo as he paws at the ground before him, nothing particularly out of the ordinary here, he is just a bull after all!

Side Taunt: Shake It Off!
Tauros shakes his body from side to side, much like that one taunt DK has. He then walks in a tight circle before snorting and shaking his head. Somebody's a bit touchy..

Down Taunt: Standing Tall
Tauros rears back onto his hind legs and kicks wildly into the air while mooing. Seems more like something a stallion would do but...who's gonna be the unlucky guy to tell Tauros he looks silly...?



Win Pose #1: Bully!
Tauros eyes the camera intently as it pans down to the victor's screen...what's he...? Oh no! Tauros snaps and then charges the screen, shattering the camera to pieces as the screen goes black and only mooing is heard...we need a new camera man now...and some anger management!

Win Pose #2: Let Sleeping Bulls Lie...
Tauros is seen sleeping after a hard earned victory...unfortunately, it's hard for him to sleep while the guys he just beat are standing around like idiots clapping! Tauros sits up, turns to face the losers and snorts. All of the losers immediately stop clapping and Tauros goes back to sleep...

Win Pose 3: Proud Beast
Proud of his victory, Tauros stands with his head held high, staring off into the distance! Every once in a while he paws at the ground...doesn't he look so majestic?

Lose Pose: Clapping...?
Tauros tries to be happy for the winner...but his lack of hands makes clapping kind of difficult. After trying for a while to clap with his hoofs, Tauros simply shakes his head and faces away from the screen.

Victory Theme: Needless to say it's the Brawl Team Pokemon Victory.

Victory Against Red Team (Team Battles Only): Tauros' partner is seen doing their normal victory pose...but Tauros isn't on screen...and, hey, neither are the opponents! Soon after, the opponents run onto the screen from the left and exit off the right with Tauros in hot pursuit! Yikes! Run!

Obligatory Sundance Pose: JAM!
Sundance appears onscreen dancing while in a red jump suit. Tauros then charges onto the screen, spots Sundance and gives chase! Offscreen we hear Sundance ask, "Hey Tauros, you want two tapes or two CD's?" Before he can finish his joke, you just hear a scream. Tauros' normal victory theme is replaced by this. (It starts at :31).


| Match Ups |

Tauros VS. Bald Bull: 55/45, Tauros’ favor
Well, let’s see. Neither of them can fight at a range, so Bald Bull’s methods of forcing an approach are rather pointless seeing Tauros has no reason not to. No tricks here, the two bulls simply clash horns head-on. Both have problems racking damage, them not having much variety in this phase, but later on in the match is when Bald Bull begins to pull ahead due to his better durability, especially considering Tauros can’t really gimp Bald Bull’s bad recovery (One of his main weaknesses) unless he wants to go for a suicide KO. On the other hand, Tauros has multiple chances to go for a KO thanks to his great set-up fthrow (And even has set-ups for his set-up) while Bald Bull generally only has one or two chances to go for a Bull Charge due to having to build up his rage. That said, it evens out somewhat as Bald Bull can just try to KO with one of his laggier KO moves if he loses all his rage, seeing he’ll still be sticking around a good while longer then Tauros. Despite this the KO phase is ever so slightly biased towards Tauros. Bald Bull puts up fine resistance, but you can’t beat the real thing.

| Playstyle |

-Playing As: Raging Bull-

If you haven’t gathered Tauros’ playstyle from the overall moveset, you’re most likely blind. But, I’ll sum it up here just cause I’m a nice guy. When it comes to damage racking, Tauros will want to abuse Rage and Eye To Eye in order to raise his attack power and rack up % quickly against his opponent. As far as damage racking attacks go, Tauros’ bair, down tilt (providing it’s the second form), nair, neutral a and dash attack can all be used quite frequently to add up a good amount of damage to them. Once he’s raised his foe’s %’s to higher levels, he’ll want to stun them using either the down smash, down air or forward tilt; any of those will work properly. After that, you’ll want to grab the foe (the stunning effect from the previous moves will only last a brief amount of time). Because the previously mentioned moves have such short stun, they’re really only useful for landing Tauros’ incredibly short range, high risk grab. Once Tauros has grabbed the foe, he can then bury them with the forward throw and use their buried time to finish them off with Bull Gore or Thrash (or potentially even Bull Rocket). If you’re having a hard time landing the stunning move or grabbing the foe, you may want to try using Tauros’ Up B to pin the foe beneath Tauros for an easy forward throw.

If you’re knocked into the air, make sure to use your forward air and down air to fight your way back down; because of Tauros’ heavy-weight and fast fall speed, he’s juggle fodder unless you keep him grounded. Using his down air, Tauros can fall quickly downward and regain his footing on solid ground whereas he can use his forward air to spike the foe downward. The down air also has the advantage of stunning any foes nearby because of the dust clouds, so make good use of that too. Tauros’ uair can also be quite useful for driving opponents to the ground, so don’t discard that one either…

Even at higher %’s Tauros has several ways to hang in there. The most obvious one is Rage. Considering the attack nullifies knockback Tauros would receive from the attack, it’s quite handy as a last-ditch sort of effort. Obviously, however, relying on it too much will have the foes catch on to your schemes and a quick throw will have Tauros into the air and juggled off stage (or they’ll simply jab you once and then forward smash you when you’re back to normal). Worst comes to worst, you have several options to drag the opponent to their death with you. On walk off stages (such as Tauros’ own stage!), Tauros can use his Up/Down throws to drag the opponent off the sides. He can also Taurocide with his uair and Up B as well as the dair depending on the situation.

Overall, if you want to play as Tauros successfully, you’ll utilize his strengths properly. Movement and momentum are what makes Tauros a powerful contender. Stopping his opponent’s momentum in its tracks with his many stunning moves also help guide the battle in Tauros’ favor. Keep your opponents grounded and pick your fights carefully; stun whenever possible and unleash your kill moves when your opponent’s are stuck in their tracks.


-Playing Against: Seeing Red-

So you’re playing against Tauros huh? Well you’ve got your work cut out for you here with this angry Pokemon, fortunately, there’s a few ways you can topple this bull with relative ease. First of all, play smart while fighting Tauros. While this may sound obvious, it’s a key thing to note while playing against a good Tauros player. First of all, don’t let them ever land Eye To Eye. If they do somehow, get out of there fast before they deal some nasty damage to you; if you can avoid Tauros long enough, you can punish him severely. Second of all, learn to identify the Rage stance. If you see this attack coming, don’t attack directly, wait for Tauros to exit the stance then punish him with a forward smash or throw. With these options out of the way, Tauros will have a much harder time racking up damage…and if he can’t rack up damage, he can’t ground his opponent long enough to use his KO moves.

The best strategy to use against Tauros is to keep him in the air. Tauros players will do -EVERYTHING- in their power to avoid being juggled; don’t let them escape your aerial combos! If Tauros uses his dair to escape to the ground, predict it and wait for the dust to subside, then move in for the punishment. Try to stay out of the way of Tauros’ head too; if he can’t spike you with his fair and can’t fall on you with the dair, you’re pretty much safe from his aerials…unless you’re above him of course.

Another key thing to always remember when fighting a good Tauros is that being grabbed pretty much means you’re gonna be eating a considerable amount of damage. Avoid Tauros grab at all costs as he can link his forward throw to most any move in his moveset due to its grounding effect. None of Tauros’ other grabs are particularly deadly (unless you’re on a walk off stage) so you don’t have much to fear in that sense.

Overall, you’re going to want to keep Tauros in the air. Constant juggling of a Tauros player means he’ll have no time to use his deadlier attacks…it doesn’t help either that Tauros has weak jumps and a pitiful recovery. Tauros however is a deadly foe on the ground, so learn to dodge his dust clouds, stay a reasonable distance away to avoid his weak grab and punish him whenever he makes a mistake (which most Tauros rookies will make LOTS of). Against a good Tauros however, you’ll have to play aggressively to keep him in the air, but you’ll also have to play smart if you want to avoid falling into his many stunning attacks!


I'm beat... I can't muster the energy to ram...



#128
 

darth meanie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
452
Tauros was a set I had been looking forward to for a while. And overall, its a good set. Tauros is all about locking an opponent down for a big hit, and heavy ground based combat. The throws are all incredibly well written for an armless character, although I was disappointed by the fact that the Down Throw was entirely superior to the Up Throw, the Up Throw could use a damage buff, in my opinion.

I thought that it was weird that Bull Gore and Rage didn't have their button inputs the other way around. Also, having both Rage and Eye to Eye was unnecessary. I feel that they could have been simpler consolidated into one attack, seeing as they both basically do the same thing. That's a relatively minor nitpick though.

I'm a little disappointed in the Down Tilt though. It's incredibly situational, and having him simply graze, but only if there was grass on the stage, and otherwise be a still situational attack just reeks of quickly assembled "creativity". Certainly you could have come up with something more suitable to his playstyle there.

Other than that though, he fits together very well. Damage and knockback were all within reason, except for Bull Gore's KO at 65%! when done at the right time. With 20% damage, that seems a tad (understatement) broken. Other than those things though, I have to say that you did a good job of putting creativity and playstyle into this relatively difficult to build moveset.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,855
Location
Laughing at you
RANDOM COW MT SAW ON THE WAY TO HIS NEW HOUSE
I know how it is to get inspiration for a new character after having just watched something/playing a game, but of all things to inspire one to make a moveset, seeing cows on a long car drive? Never quite heard that one before. Either way, Tauros seems to be what you needed to essentially make a moveset without props and such and get down to basics – he’s your Punch Out character, essentially (Little Mac? He has cheeseburgers in his gloves, hence his name. He doesn’t count.).

I absolutely loved your music choices, them really helping to capture the feel of Tauros. Ironically the more fitting ones weren’t actually Pokemon music. . .And I’ll ignore that random Zelda boss music on the taunts header seeing it’s y’know, an extra (Megaman music is plenty good though and somewhat fitting). The last musical header made me cringe at first due to it being anime and unfitting, but at least it was actually Pokemon and it was much better then I expected, so smeh. Anyway, enough nitpicking that. I was focusing on this because it was a GOOD thing. A highlight.

Tauros obviously isn’t here to wow us with massively creative individual attacks. You could’ve given him Pokemon syndrome and given him the usual generic physical sweeper moves (Hyper Beam, Earthquake, Body Slam, Rock Slide, etc), I much prefer how you actually kept strictly in character with him. Despite never doing anything remotely unfitting for his character, his moves were still far more interesting then Mac’s non-prop moves. It’s certainly not a highlight, but considering the insanely small potential of the character you were given it’s very difficult to complain.

So playstyle. The main thing that determines whether I like the set or not at this point, really. While he certainly isn’t much that we haven’t seen before in this regard, he flows much, much better then any of your previous sets, so if nothing else this is good experience for you. His stun moves linking into a grab linking into a fthrow linking into a KO move is a rather typical thing that I do a lot in my movesets, but a lot more emphasis is put on it here, seeing he pretty much has no way to do so otherwise with that terrible grab. He also has the usual “get out of the air” aerials that are once again more a cliché of my sets, but that’s aside the point. The fact that you’re mimicking clichés I use so much can be taken as either a good or bad sign, but either way, this flows, and quite well at that. The opening statement of your playstyle section is very much true.

The only thing limiting the moveset is the character, really. You did as much as you could for him, certainly much more so then the likes of Cammy and Bison
(Raven’s still awesome, Silver.)
.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,011
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
[size=+2]Tauros[/size]

So you finally got another set out with all of those re-caps? Ok, good. Tauros seems to be perfectly be in character of course. Eating grass on a grass stage is interesting, as well as the dash attack. Down Throw is funny but weird. The first part mentioned about Bald Bull in the Side Special was uneccesary and confused me, and with that, I can't think of much else to complain about, but... you need to use some of these: ' with Tauros cause they were missing in some of the parts of the set. Good day to you.
 

half_silver28

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
862
Location
MYM, Ohio
Tauros: I have to say, this is quite a good set. Tauros couldn't possibly be more in-character as far as moves and playstyle go, & I agree with Warlord in saying that pretty much any pokemon moves beyond what you gave him would be redundant or OOC for him. He doesn't have the most original playstyle in the world, but the fact that he has several ways to boost the damage of his attacks (rage, eye to eye) makes him more interesting. Speaking of attacks, the creativity of them certainly isn't amazing, but you managed to make even the dullest moves of the set sound interesting due to your reader-friendly writing style. My only complaints are the fact that the down tilt is SO situational, &, for some reason, I find it weird for a bull to jump the distance of ganondorf straight into the air (up smash). xD

That being said, there were quite a few creative moves, particularly the ones that involve kicking up dust clouds and the alternate grabs in the side b & up air. & I have to commend you for giving Tauros a full set of grabs/throws, unlike Clefable Kangaskhan. All the music you put in the headers was great and VERY fitting; as Warlord pointed out, just because its from the character's series doesn't mean that it fits the character. I wonder if I should join the music-in-headers movement... :dizzy:

anyway, this is a great set, far better than Mac (who I don't think is bad by any means). Nice work :)
 

MarthTrinity

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,954
Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
Tauros was a set I had been looking forward to for a while. And overall, its a good set. Tauros is all about locking an opponent down for a big hit, and heavy ground based combat. The throws are all incredibly well written for an armless character, although I was disappointed by the fact that the Down Throw was entirely superior to the Up Throw, the Up Throw could use a damage buff, in my opinion.

The throws were, surprisingly, the easist part for me to write up as well as the most enjoyable. Every character has their crappy throw I suppose but the Up Throw was one of the most enjoyable concepts I came up with for Tauros.

I thought that it was weird that Bull Gore and Rage didn't have their button inputs the other way around. Also, having both Rage and Eye to Eye was unnecessary. I feel that they could have been simpler consolidated into one attack, seeing as they both basically do the same thing. That's a relatively minor nitpick though.

Bull Gore and Rage had their button inputs "switched around" to avoid obvious comparisons with Bald Bull's Side Special (which was basically what I was trying to avoid my hardest to avoid). I also had Bull Gore as the Neutral B so it's easy to use and even easier to hold the charge. Being a key part of his moveset, I wanted it to be a key command. Also, having both Eye to Eye and Rage was done partially because I was toying around with both concepts and decided they were both different enough to use. Rage also helps him last longer whereas Eye To Eye is a -FAR- more reliable damage booster.

I'm a little disappointed in the Down Tilt though. It's incredibly situational, and having him simply graze, but only if there was grass on the stage, and otherwise be a still situational attack just reeks of quickly assembled "creativity". Certainly you could have come up with something more suitable to his playstyle there.

Down Tilt, like with Mac, was my last move. I hate it admittedly and it's really low quality compared to the rest of the set. It was essentially (yet again) a last minute addition to that I'm not particularly proud of.

Other than that though, he fits together very well. Damage and knockback were all within reason, except for Bull Gore's KO at 65%! when done at the right time. With 20% damage, that seems a tad (understatement) broken. Other than those things though, I have to say that you did a good job of putting creativity and playstyle into this relatively difficult to build moveset.
Bull Gore done at the right time has at the very least 2 seconds of start up lag (making it laggier than a Warlock Punch I believe) meaning that a 65% kill isn't terribly overpowered considering how difficult it is to land. Anyway. glad you enjoyed this set! Thanks for the comment!

I absolutely loved your music choices

The music choices were fairly easy for me, I wanted to capture the "barnyard" kind of feel you'd get from a barnyard kind of Pokemon so most of my themes were very farm/western related (hence the Magma Man song). The Majora's Mask Boss theme was included because of the boss Goht in Majora's Mask who was essentially a giant rampaging bull; I figured it'd capture Tauros' more destructive side as well as being a nice nod to people who got the reference.

Tauros obviously isn’t here to wow us with massively creative individual attacks.

My main goal with this set was to make Tauros and nothing else. After rereading Azu, I realized just how much Pokemon Syndrome he really had, so I took the stance with Tauros that he'd have as few -REAL- Pokemon moves as possible and instead rely on his bull qualities. Essentially, this set really -IS- Generic Bull MT Saw On His Drive.

So playstyle.

Playstyle was something I really wanted to capture with Tauros, admittedly to impress yourself ;) As I was making Tauros, I slowly pieced together this playstyle and realized that it could work quite well and, in the end, I'm quite happy with how it turned out.

The only thing limiting the moveset is the character, really. You did as much as you could for him, certainly much more so then the likes of Cammy and Bison
(Raven’s still awesome, Silver.)
.

I knew I'd have an uphill battle making this set considering Tauros has like...no move pool whatsoever in the Pokemon games and I knew my battle would be even harder to keep him in character while also keeping him interesting. Overall, I'm happy with the outcome of this set and I'm glad you enjoyed it Warlord!

[size=+2]Tauros[/size]

So you finally got another set out with all of those re-caps? Ok, good. Tauros seems to be perfectly be in character of course. Eating grass on a grass stage is interesting, as well as the dash attack. Down Throw is funny but weird. The first part mentioned about Bald Bull in the Side Special was uneccesary and confused me, and with that, I can't think of much else to complain about, but... you need to use some of these: ' with Tauros cause they were missing in some of the parts of the set. Good day to you.

The mention of Bald Bull in the Side Special was a reference to Bald Bull's special Rage mechanic, it was more of a joke than anything. Also, the way I do wrote it throughout most of the set was -Tauros'- since that was the way I was taught to add apostrophes to words ending with S. It's used several times throughout the set but it's possible you simply missed it because you're not used to it. Anyway, thanks for the comment! ^_^
your reader-friendly writing style.

Most people tend to say that my writing style makes my sets and writing easy to digest, really happy ot hear that as that's what I aim for.

My only complaints are the fact that the down tilt is SO situational, &, for some reason, I find it weird for a bull to jump the distance of ganondorf straight into the air (up smash). xD

The down tilt like I mentioned previously, I'm not particularly happy with but most people in the chat said not to change it sooooo....

That being said, there were quite a few creative moves, particularly the ones that involve kicking up dust clouds and the alternate grabs in the Up b & up air. & I have to commend you for giving Tauros a full set of grabs/throws, unlike Clefable Kangaskhan.

Again as I mentioned before, throws were the easist and honestly, the most fun part of the set, I really enjoyed writing them up!

All the music you put in the headers was great and VERY fitting; as Warlord pointed out, just because its from the character's series doesn't mean that it fits the character. I wonder if I should join the music-in-headers movement... :dizzy:

Music is apparently my forte (pun partially intended), glad you enjoyed my choices!

anyway, this is a great set, far better than Mac (who I don't think is bad by any means). Nice work :)

Better than Mac? Glad to hear it! Here's hoping Mac places 25th then so Tauros can charge on ahead ;)
Replies are in bold :3
 

Wizzerd

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
929
MR. SANDMAN
Genuinely one of my favorite sets of yours. No seriously, I'm not just saying this because you're holding my review hostage. Mr. Sandman is the epitome of a character who has no depth given a moveset that actually is original. It reminds me of King Hippo: in-character is bland, originality is out-of-character, yet somehow there's a third option you found. Obviously this doesn't rank above Sloth or Roller Coaster Tycoon (Or Dingodile, who I'm particularly fond of), but it's certainly one of the best out of your many unplanned Punch-Out!! boxer sets.

Admittedly there are some generic moves in there, most notably the utilt, and some ripoffs, like the neutral attack (Eeriely similar to Ryuk and Alphonse's) and the Final Smash (Though quite honestly I wouldn't have been able to think of anything without stretching the sleeping theme to its breaking point), but you didn't try to shoehorn in all of the generic punches from his actual title bout like in Bald Bull, and, well, the moves really aren't that bad. In the end, originality could be a little better, but considering what you had to work with I have to commend you. Besides, the cool moves like the Down Special make up for it.

I'm brushing over organization quickly to say that all is good here. The "Z"s are a nice touch and add to the flavor. I'm not and never will be a fan of highlighting, but admittedly it was pulled off successfully here. Instead of making it a near wall of red like in Sloth (The one blemish in one of your greatest works), it helps comprehension. Maybe if I ever get around to Piston Honda and Aran Ryan I'll do it.

Out of the few comments you recieved there were some balance concerns... I originally thought he was nigh broken, but reading over it while he can combo insanely, he can be comboed insanely himself. He's leaning more towards overpowered than underpowered, but characters not named Meta Knight and Snake definitely don't have it significantly harder beating him.

Still, I have a significant criticism of this moveset... The playstyle. He's a heaviweight who combos... >_<. You made it different enough that it isn't exactly the same thing, but... yeah, it just seems like you could have done better. On top of this there are generic moves occasionally. These could be used as the usual sacrifice, but they aren't really, they're just there. I'm hardly trying to rip you for this, the playstyle truly is decent enough, but eh.

While Mr. Sandman doesn't have anything absolutely amazing going for him like Sloth or Roller Coaster Tycoon, he's an incredibly solid moveset. It isn't doing anything too special, but there's not much to criticize here, honestly, with the playstyle being the only real blemish. At the very least, this deserves to place around the high forties or early thirties.
 

peeup

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
1,618
Location
Hartford/Mass
Hey, I haven't been around here in a while, so can anybody tell me if the contest is close to ending/if an end date has been decided? I have some ideas, but if the end is soon I'll wait till next time.
 

peeup

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
1,618
Location
Hartford/Mass
Excellent! I don't have the attention span or will power to go through the entire thread looking for what characters have already been made, so could anybody who knows tell me if any of the following characters have already been submitted?

Rorschach (Watchmen), Stick Figure (Stick Arena), Invoker (DotA), Luxord (Kingdom Hearts) Me (The Human Equation) 1 through 9 (9)

Thanks!
 

Clownbot

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
1,851
Excellent! I don't have the attention span or will power to go through the entire thread looking for what characters have already been made, so could anybody who knows tell me if any of the following characters have already been submitted?

Rorschach (Watchmen), Stick Figure (Stick Arena), Invoker (DotA), Luxord (Kingdom Hearts) Me (The Human Equation) 1 through 9 (9)

Thanks!
Oh **** you. I saw the full-length animated movie the other day, and I totally wanted to make a set for these guys.

Good luck. :)
 

n88_2004

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,432
@peeup

I was considering a Rorshach set, but I dropped it. So, no, none of those guys have been done yet.

What Clownbot said.
 

UserShadow7989

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
167
Tauros is my favorite set of your yet, MT. Unlike almost every Pokémon set in recent memory, it doesn't succumb to Pokémon Syndrome with dozens of attacks that have no connection to Tauros other then being in his move pool. Rather, you looked at Tauros' design as an inspiration for the attacks and playstyle, and the set is all the better for it. In fact, you still managed some very creative attacks despite the limiting character that I doubt I could've pulled off myself.

The organization is clean and to the point, the descriptions are short but informative, the writing style is very friendly, and the music choices in each header are superb. While Tauros doesn't have anything that "wow"s me, it's a highly polished gem with no major flaws I can see. You've shown why you're one of the reviewers on The Canvas and Tauros definately gets a vote from me.
 

Agi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,120
Location
SE Washington
Alright, gonna try to start up AND finish Vivian today... a little challenge, if you will.

(oh, and I read Tauros, despite me joking about 43.5 people not reading it. I may or may not comment on it later, most likely not. Sorry. I did like what I read, if that's any consolation. Which it isn't. (sry))
 
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