[MAJOR] Reloaded VIII - July 16th 2011 (Adelaide) 1ST PLACE NOW $1000

[Blackshadow]

The match was definitely being recorded, I checked out the laptop during and after the match, so it hasn't been found yet.

 

[Splice]

In the end Oli vs MK isn't really even though, its probs 60:40 for MK
MKs offstage really is the goods
Better than Toon Link, Corpse.
The more I think of it the more it seems TL vs Olimar is really bad for TL.

I don't think Oli is too low. He's in the right tier. I don't know who is above him.

But yeah I dont think any of the Reloaded MKs know Olimar
I wonder how Afropony would do vs Jaice
There's a guy who knows how to destroy Olimars

Ledge dropped Olimar for MK because of Afropony lol

 

[Ghostbone]

If it wasn't for gimps, the MU is definitely in Oli's favour. Apollo can back me up on this one I hope.

I wouldn't say definitely, but at least even imo.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

None of MK's match-ups are even, Splice

and I agree with Ghost, MK still has a lot on Olimar without gimps.

 

[Splice]

None of MK's match-ups are even, Splice

I don't see your point.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

In the end Oli vs MK isn't really even though

I was referring to that part of your post.

 

[Alzi]

Oli vs TL is super bad. TL can't use bombs, when he can't use bombs that's basically put's him at a bad disadvantage. Plus I don't know about anyone else but not being able to use bombs in a match feels very weird and not normal when you are toon link.

But yes I also agree that Olimar is too low on the tier list I actually think Olimar would be the best character in the game if it wasn't for his **** recovery.

I don't know how Attila even beat Olimar. In fact I don't know how anyone does it he is so small in size and just annoying to vs. And dat up smash is 2G.

 

[Ghostbone]

I don't see who Olimar should go above atm really.

Maybe Marth, but Wario and IC are both better than him.

 

[Attila_]

pretty sure corpse lost cause he gave up on camping.

oli's camping game is solid, but its completely linear, unlike snake and tink's respective camping games.

that's how it seemed to me, anyway.

 

[Remastered]

Like I said Splice, if it wasn't for gimps (offstage) the MU would be even (meaning it isn't even). There is only one safe way to approach Oli with MK and that is by sharking. M2K showed all of us this against brood.

I have played the MU over and over against Jaice, I know it inside out, and the best stages to take him too are any you can come up from underneath on.

Snake v Oli really isn't that bad, sure it's in Oli's favour but it isn't far off even.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Yeah, Oli vs. Snake doesn't seem that bad. :/

I think Dedede is better at the MU, if only slightly.

 

[Splice]

I was referring to that part of your post.

I don't see why you bothered with that then? why?

And yes Oli shuts down TLs bombs and camp game in general Alzi. It sucks hard.
Also Olimars recovery isnt as terrible as many think when it doesn't backfire for next to no reason. But he's nowhere near close to first <____<

I agree with Ghostbone, except I'd also add that Oli does not belong above Marth imo either. Oli is fine where he is... he isnt overrated nor underrated really.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Marth at least has the advanage of doing well against MK, Ice Climbers and Wario aren't so lucky.

 

[Ghostbone]

I agree with Ghostbone, except I'd also add that Oli does not belong above Marth imo either. Oli is fine where he is... he isnt overrated nor underrated really.

I just think Marth is too high personally, I think he should be bottom of B tier.

Also Olimars recovery isnt as terrible as many think when it doesn't backfire for next to no reason. But he's nowhere near close to first <____<

Olimar's recovery is definitely bottom 5 in the game lol.

Maybe slightly better than Ivysaur, Link and Ganon.

 

[Remastered]

No Marth is right, and MK is actually considered his worst MU guys.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

According to the BBR? Pfft, they know nothingz

Marth does better against MK than Wario/ICs, at least. Even if it is his worst MU.

Bottom of the Recovery Tier List: Ivysaur, Ness, Ganondorf, Link, Olimar, Meta Knight.

 

[Attila_]

snake vs d3 is bad, snake vs oli is worse.

yes.

try and play either mu and discover just how ******** they are.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Stop complaining, Snake is amazing Attila

And it's funny you say that, cause Splice said to me (and I quote): "Olimar's advantage? Pretty sure both of these players [Jaice and Attila] would agree that it's even >_>"

 

[Attila_]

no.

snake can be good. really good.

but then he makes a mistake and dies.

d3 is amazing at punishing those mistakes. oli is amazing at forcing them.

yes.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I thought one of Snake's strengths was that he could live through multiple mistakes due to his weight + recovery?

 

[Ghostbone]

Not against D3, idk about Oli

 

[Attila_]

living doesn't make a difference if you're juggled to death.

 

[Splice]

I dont know if by recovery you guys think I mean just the UpB

Olimar is harder to gimp then people think because he has a lot of options that dont kill him, and because people dont know the options, they dont know how to deal with them either, so they fail at gimping Olimar.

There are quite a few characters easier to gimp then Olimar, it also depends what character you use. With MK Olimar should probably be one of the easiest though, I wouldnt be surprised with that.

Snake is a bad character.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Generally people differentiate between survivability and recovery.

 

[Ghostbone]

Look at it this way Splice, not many characters dislike being off-stage as much as Olimar does.

 

[Splice]

That's true Ghost. I didn't say he had one of the best recoveries

generally people who have no idea what they are doing assume its worse than it is and lose a lot of gimps by trying to abuse what they think the issues are instead of making better more surefire decisions. Against a lot of characters Olimar recovers back to the stage much better than people think, they dont realise his options. I know exactly what you are trying to say but I don't think you understand in any case.

Also @ Adepts post that I didnt see before : yes sharking vs Olimar is the ****, especially with multiple jumps. Daz why I CP Delfino yeyuz!

 

[zApollo]

Losers Bracket Corpse vs Jaice now uploaded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeVE_VudzfY

After watching Jaice and Earl play the day before, and Jaice play against corpse mk on the day I can definitely agree that the mu is more even than one would think. Jaice was extremely smart at the mu and avoided gimps skillfully. I was quite impressed.

If Jaice had faced earl in brackets, both would have been given a serious run for their money.

 

[Splice]

I regret letting Tedeth talk me into playing on the TV without recording now.

I came so close and would have loved to see where I'm going wrong

I suck

 

[Ghostbone]

That's true Ghost. I didn't say he had one of the best recoveries

generally people who have no idea what they are doing assume its worse than it is and lose a lot of gimps by trying to abuse what they think the issues are instead of making better more surefire decisions. Against a lot of characters Olimar recovers back to the stage much better than people think, they dont realise his options. I know exactly what you are trying to say but I don't think you understand in any case.

Also @ Adepts post that I didnt see before : yes sharking vs Olimar is the ****, especially with multiple jumps. Daz why I CP Delfino yeyuz!

I'm not sure of what you're trying to say, that Olimar's recovery isn't that bad because people don't know how to gimp him?

That's a fault of the players, not a strength of the character.

 

[Remastered]

Yeah I'm pretty disappointed with not having many of my matches recorded. Need to learn my mistakes quickly. Also need to hurry up and find a character to use alongside D3.

Splice and Apollo know there stuff. Snake v Oli is very close to even. I know this because I can play Jaice and beat him using Snake on occasions (and my Snake is scrub). We also have a snake user in QLD who runs very even with Jaice because of practice with the MU. Snake doesn't have any unwinnable MU's, hence his position on the tier list.

 

[Ant1]

I like how ppl complain about no experience in matchups
Games been out for 3 years


...oh wait i complained too

 

[Ghostbone]

People still john about not knowing match-ups in Melee

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I was going to use that john if I lost to Myst's Ness in Melee pools.

Thankfully, Ness is a **** character so I won anyway.

 

[Attila_]

Splice and Apollo know there stuff. Snake v Oli is very close to even. I know this because I can play Jaice and beat him using Snake on occasions (and my Snake is scrub). We also have a snake user in QLD who runs very even with Jaice because of practice with the MU. Snake doesn't have any unwinnable MU's, hence his position on the tier list.

bolded the non seqitur.

knowing the jaice mu, and summarizing the oli snake mu are two different things. diddy beats ics, but my ics definitely hassle tibor, simply because i know him as a player extremely thoroughly. hell, i take matches off him with falcon on occasion.

no one in high tier have unwinnable mus, but some come close. snake d3, falco pika, pika marth are all good examples.

the thing about snake is that he has plenty of even/slightly advantaged mus, whereas most high tiers **** the vast majority of the tier list. that and snake is disgustingly complicated at high levels.

 

[Ghostbone]

the thing about snake is that he has plenty of even/slightly advantaged mus, whereas most high tiers **** the vast majority of the tier list. that and snake is disgustingly complicated at high levels.

I disagree, outside of D3 and maybe G&W I don't see other high tiers ****** pretty much everyone below them any harder than Snake.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Yeah... Snake ***** the low tiers who are bad at KO'ing, he ***** the low tiers with range issues and he ***** the low tiers who die easily.

 

[Remastered]

Not to mention that ridiculous kill power and the ability to live until 200% comfortably against a lot of the cast.

BBR seems to agree with me on Snake/Olimar. Not that this is much to go by, but it has to count for something.

I agree to an extent Attila, but you can't compare the Falco/Pika MU to the likes of Snake/D3.

 

[Ghostbone]

BBR thinks Pikachu goes even with MK as well >.>

Falco/Pika isn't as bad as it's made out to be imo, Falco has a lot more going for him than Fox or Wolf do against Pika.

 

[Shaya]

meh. Diddy is probably harder for Marth than MK.

Marth gets the grabs on MK better than like any one in high tier and has one of the best grab ***** available to abuse.

Plus camping a guy without a projectile is sexy.

 

[Attila_]

Lol

You're speaking about things you know nothing about again.

Ask the boards and come back to me; I've been playing is character for some time, and know him pretty well.