Maining G&W and having Dedede as a Secondary

[Lethal Beauty]

Hello fellow G&W mainers. As most of you already know, and whether or not you agree or disagree, Snake and Marth are G&W's two worst matchups. I stubbornly attempted to stick it out for a while and simply try to win against them, but it's far too difficult/frustrating against players that truly know what they're doing.

Anyways, I've recently picked up D3 who happens to cover both of those bad matchups. The problem is, G&W and Dedede have very different (nearly opposite) playstyles! G&W is very aggressive while Dedede is very patient.

When playing consecutive matches with the same character (all G&W or all D3) I do very well, but when it comes to switching between the two characters, the following match usually results in my performance lacking severely, requiring a match or two in between to readapt to the character. One of the biggest problems is under or overestimating the weight of the characters. In friendlies, fine, I'll suck for a match or two and dish it out after that, but in a tournament I can't afford to just throw a match like that.

So I was just wondering if anyone else plays G&W and Dedede, and how you manage to switch between them efficiently in tournament, or if this is even a good idea. Do I just need more practice? It's not easy, but I'm willing to do my very best.

I just don't know what to do, exactly, because the more reasonable choice, as far as similar playstyles and matchup coverage goes, I would have to go to the dark side, if y'know what I mean, and I don't want to have to resort to that. >.<

 

[Hylian]

Playing DDD as a secondary for GW is a very good idea Faye. I've tried to pick up DDD sooo many times. I just can't play the character though. I don't have any fun because of how different I have to play :/. DDD is probably the best secondary you could have save MK though.

I do switch between characters a lot in tournament though(GW/ICs/Diddy/Falco/MK) and sometimes it makes me play horrible, other times not at all. It helps if you play a lot of games against whoever you are using your secondary for. If you are really used to playing against snake/marth with DDD and not that used to playing against them with GW then you will develop good habits in those match-ups and you shouldn't have a problem switching.

So yeah, just get really used to playing DDD against the characters you want to use him against.

 

[K 2]

I've also tried picking up DDD, since he is an excellent secondary for G&W, but I can't stand his playstyle. DDD is too cumbersome and slow for me, and he gets combo'd very easily. All my characters have excellent mobility and can get out of tight spots easily. Once, DDD gets caught in a combo, it can be 50-60% before he finally gets out, which is very frustrating.

You should probably practice with DDD against marth and snake more, so you get accustomed to fighting those matchups. You might want to practice switching between G&W and DDD in friendlies to try to get used to alternating characters.

 

[Gates]

I'm a Dedede main and I use Game & Watch as my secondary lol.

Dedede/G&W is a good combination to have due to each character complementing the other's matchups well. Game & Watch has solid matchups against Ice Climbers, Falco, Pikachu, Olimar, and Kirby, Dedede's 5 worst matchups. Likewise, Dedede has good matchups against Snake, Marth, and DK, Game & Watch's worst matchups. The only holes in this defense are Diddy Kong, who isn't a terribly bad matchup for either, and Metaknight, who is...well, Metaknight.

In practice though, the transition between the two can be difficult. Game & Watch spend a large majority of his time in the air wheras Dedede has his feet firmly planted in the ground most of the time. Game & Watch likes to rush in and approach so he can combo his opponent easily wheras Dedede likes to wait for his opponents to come to him to get a shieldgrab and chaingrab them. Game & Watch loves platforms, Dedede hates them.

The two characters are like different sides of the same coin, but if you can use them both well the rewards will be very great.

If you want to look into Dedede further, our boards have several good resources for learning the character.

 

[AzNfinesse]

you've done a smart thing practicing picking up D3. best advice i can give you is to go play some friendlies with a bunch of people and keep going back and forth. alternate your choices. play GnW every 3 games, then play D3 the next three games...then continue on. That's what I did when i picked up zelda to counter TL.

when you enter a tournament setting, just go with your best judgment. and be sure you get some good warm ups with BOTH characters beforehand. Be flexible and be ready for any situation. Worst thing you could do is be playing D3 and thinking your playing GnW and vice versa.

 

[pockyD]

if you're just looking to cover matchups, play MK -_-

counters everybody, and doesn't require any adjustment period in the switchover

 

[cutter]

The only beef I have against Dedede is his piss-poor aerial movement. I'm pretty sure it's the worst in the game.

I can play him pretty decentlly though; just remember that DDD and GW like different stages

 

[K@0S]

I'm a G&W main and DDD is my secondary, which helps a lot against Snake (and against Marth too, I don't see how the match-up is 45-55, maybe I'm bad at it).

I personally don't have problems switching playstyles (which are very different in this case). You only need practice then it becomes natural.

 

[LouBega]

i try to learn new characters all the time but ddd has never appealed to me. maybe i'll learn him eventually.

 

[Needle of Juntah]

im sorry fay i dont have the game so i have no idea what to say lol

 

[pheX]

Well I just can say that it is an excellent idea!
I first tried it with Pikachu since Toon Link was another GW "counter" in the match up charta. (Which he is not at all compared to Snake and Marth )
Well then I've seen that I don't even do that well against Snakes and that the Marth match up is just as worse. Haha.
Then I've tried DDD but i horribley failed. I think I just got a similar problem as hylian has. I just can't play that character. So I switched to ROB against Snakes which works pretty well. And the Match up with Marth is 50:50 I guess. (So its said @ marth boards). That not too bad either.

So I think GW/ROB isnt such a bad idea either.

 

[Lethal Beauty]

Thanks for your input, guys! Helps a lot. And thank you, K@OS, because that's kind of what I wanted to hear-- that it is, in fact, not impossible. ROB, huh? I'll think about that one.

 

[ZOM~B]

Haha I actually use G&W to second my ROB... against DDDs bleh. And Marth does well against Snake and he can do okay against Marth too with lots of practice... it's not an easy matchup though. (Not a hard one though... 50:50 is about right)

 

[lain]

Watch my vids for consultation on how to **** with DDD.

 

[UTDZac]

Watch my vids for consultation on how to **** with DDD.

Where are these vids you speak of?
Where is this rapage you claim to perform?

 

[Plum]

Yeah going into a defensive character can be a big pain..
If you can get DDD down though then power to you. Great combination to cover the spread.
I just fail at DDD... I went with Olimar myself. Absolute tank in most matchups and IMO handles MK better then G&W as well as G&W's problem matchups when treated correctly. DDD in terms of matchups though works better.

 

[Gates]

Where are these vids you speak of?
Where is this rapage you claim to perform?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7-_kLw3r5k
I came.

 

[Mr. Grey]

I just recently came back from a tournament, and this post was just what I needed, I ran into a good snake player and got ***** with my G&W, I had never played a good snake before, and until now never realized how difficult it was to dominate snake. I was wondering who I could use as a secondary, cause until now I've been doing fine sticking with G&W against everyone.
I've tried to use DDD after looking at this post, I think I really have to get used to the recovery difference between them. But I'm gonna try to get used to him. Thanks for the post.

 

[K@0S]

I won the biggest french tourney last week-end (108 people, 350€) using G&W and DDD. DDD helped me SO MUCH, I two stocked every Snake on my way (who would probably **** me if I had taken G&W all sets)..

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

I agree with what pheX said. I've tried picking up D3, but the play style is completely different. So what I did was I learned Rob, as he counters Snake and goes even with Marth. However, I also use Marth and Metaknight, so I don't really have difficulty with any matchup, but I still think that D3 is the best secondary for GaW.

 

[UTDZac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7-_kLw3r5k
I came.

Holy **** batman. <3 Lain.

 

[Noa.]

I've decided to pick up ROB as a second. DDD is a very funky character to play as for me. Besides, ROB and G&W are the very old in Nintendo.

 

[MyCurse4Life]

Nice, I would say your characters are well-balanced and they are both almost alike i guess, the reason is because I like both of thier recovery B.

 

[Rajam]

I main G&W and DDD is my secondary, but i still have problems against Diddy and Toon Link... who is better against them? and obviously why?

 

[napZzz]

DDD is not as hard to play as you guys make it sound.HE boils down to the same things as game andwatch ,abusing aerials,staying defesive,etc.Just learn how to grab with good timing and abuse aerials.

 

[Tero.]

DDD is definitely a good choice.
I don't main G&W anymore, but I main MK and I have kinda similar problems (even though there not as bad as G&W's).
I use DDD as my secondary and it works perfectly fine.

ROB is good too

 

[NatP]

IMO, the best secondary for g&w is DK. He's pretty much the opposite of g&w in some areas. Excelent horizontal recovery. while g&w has a great vertical recovery. BUT they are still similar in some areas, like, they are both momentum characters, they don't have to relay on projectiles, have both great KO moves and a lot of range, etc. Only main difference is that DK does a lot better against marth, snake and meta. Which is why he's the best secondary in my opinion. But I guess DDD is good too.

 

[Sky`]

Well.
If you think about it, kinda, they can be similar. (tries to make the best of it. o-o)

DDD subsists on Back airs, CGs, and minor prediction when it comes to characters that he can't CG. But you're not using DDD as a full on Main or anything, just enough to cover your Marth and your Snake matchups, right? So it's not like you're going to have to learn DDD to the last letter, (which is D), right?

Like, My DDD is bad, but when against Snake and Marth, I'm pretty confident, only because I learned enough to exploit the matchup advantage. =]
But with Peach, I've got Snake covered, and Marth is just a pain all together.

You got this, I'll be there this weekend.
We can practice. =]

 

[PentaSalia]

yea DDD isn't as hard as people make it seem
too be really good with him,is another story
but having DDD as a second main is simple

just play a lot with him andyou'll eventually get familiar with his slow speed,use more aerials
and grabs duhD:

 

[Gates]

I like how we have 2 threads about basically the same thing going but one of them was necroed from a month ago by something that should have gone in the Q&A thread.

But anyway...

I main G&W and DDD is my secondary, but i still have problems against Diddy and Toon Link... who is better against them? and obviously why?

This is actually a tough question. They both have their advantages, but generally I'd say G&W is better against both since he can glide toss Diddy's bananas and he is better at approaching Toon Link.