Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

[GrazzaB]

Hey, so I just started playing melee and since kirby was nurfed super hard, I decided to pick up jigglypuff and found her to be really fun.

However, my friend is really good with falco, and I was wondering whether there was any advice to beating him

 

[Krynxe]

Hello GrazzaB, welcome to the Puff boards.

If you are new to melee, competitively, I'd recommend you look over this thread to start learning some of the non-character-specific technical aspects of this game, most of the information on there is extremely important to know.

For Puff vs. Falco specifically, there is a lot to cover. You can check the first post of this thread for some basic information about this matchup. As a jigglypuff player, you should practice your proficiency with landing rests and edgeguards. Against Falco, you are able to uthrow and jump into a rest as a legitimate combo. (This works from 0% up to a very high %, as long as they don't DI it.) With your back to the ledge, bthrowing and getting edgeguards is an extremely easy way to fish for kills, but many players will be scared to approach puff by the ledge unless they are confident that they can pressure her well. In general, watch out for Falco's dair and learn to deal with his lasers, also remember that his full hop is really high up so you can float right above his short-hop range a lot to make things difficult for him. Falco has poor range compared to puff, and he isn't nearly as fast as Fox nor can he kill off the top as easily, so just think about his weaknesses and your strengths and take advantage of it.

Another puff player can go into more details or whatever, I actually have to go but I'll be back on this afternoon. Hope this helps.

 

[idea]

grab him, upthrow, jump and down-b.

 

[Metà]

crouching is god tier against falco. learn to weave in and out if lasers by jumping/crouching/WDing and you'll shut down a huge part of his game

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

WD to affect your spacing =] Learn wd out of shield as early as possible. Soooooo helpful and I just recently learned how to do it well >.<

 

[KrIsP!]

I can WD OoS consistently..still got ***** in tournament. Even SDIing the uairs against spacies didn't help much because they throw out like 10 against me. I should rest more regardless. I need a good training partner but I don't have one right now, nor do I have a CRT but these are just hurdles.


What's good for the puff peach match up. I won BF and was taken to yoshi's, last stock last hit and traded fairs to lose. I didn't know where to go and FoD was banned so I went back to BF since I had won once there already. Is DL a better choice? I have questions regardless but I'll reread the first page before I go asking things that have been answered.

Edit: ok so...against peach I can't counter pick rainbow cruise. Needs an update =p
I wasn't shine spiked at the tourney really...I used mahone's advice of pounding away from the stage and bair back on, but really I just want to know how you guys recover low. I feel like I'm all over the place just trying to get higher. I was watching Idea pound away->jump forwards and repeat until the ledge is close and no one went near him to try and edge guard and I was like...why? What's the mentality, what are they scared of, because whatever it is I'm unaware of it and once they fidn out that I am they getmore courageous.

So yeah..also what is there to learn next. I definitely need more expirience playing actual people but I can't get that often so right now I'm working on general precision with aerials and edgeguards but there's not really a guide for puffs once they reach the next step.

 

[Massive]

Try very hard not to recover low, it leaves you vulnerable.

If you have no choice, pound and jump far enough away from the stage that they can't punish effectively and then get in close and air-dodge on (choose between platforms or the stage as a mixup) or use an aerial to approach the stage. You can also plank the edge a bit and take it, but that requires more guts than the other options and can backfire.

Against Peach never pick DL64 unless you're positive your fundamentals are better than theirs. Try to get stages with a moderately low ceiling (yoshi's, battlefield) and then dair > usmash and go for uairs. It's VERY easy to get a peach above you and you can trade uair with her dair all day to no ill effect.

Also try for utilt > rest at (peach's) lower %s or off a dsmash if she misses one. It's very hard for her to punish rest when your % is low, and the best thing she can do- the Armada turnip maneuver, doesn't kill until you're above 30-40%. If you're super classy I'm told you can rest peach out of a dair too... I've just never successfully pulled it off.

 

[Mahone]

skype might be better for this since u asked a lot of questions

in general...

fox is tough, tbh ur just losing from lack of practice probably, but wd back couldn't hurt

the peach guide by idea is really good on the first page

its personal preference, but i like dreamland, i think mango or hbox said... u both live forever, but u have a rest

recovering low is just kinda about getting higher like you said, no one is super comfortable low, try to recover far away form the stage though, don't need to hug the wall for any reason, and it just makes shine gimps a threat (because of bounce off wall, whereas a shine far offstage will let you sdi it up pretty easily, plus they won't be able to follow up well because you are so far)

they probably just didn't punish idea cuz they are just scared... people will just give puff the ledge in tourney for free a lot because they just like not learning mixups and just being safe and lazy

my guide is godlike and imma update it soon

 

[Massive]

they probably just didn't punish idea cuz they are just scared... people will just give puff the ledge in tourney for free a lot because they just like not learning mixups and just being safe and lazy

This is why I like tournaments, people play too safe and I get to live forever because of it. The only person I've met who doesn't play extra safe in tourney-mode is Darkrain. He just plays better.

 

[Mahone]

darkrain doesn't afraid of anything

 

[idea]

I was watching Idea pound away->jump forwards and repeat until the ledge is close and no one went near him to try and edge guard and I was like...why? What's the mentality, what are they scared of, because whatever it is I'm unaware of it and once they fidn out that I am they getmore courageous.

yeah they were probably just scared lol...i mean, if they mistime it slightly they probably die, and if they shine me i still probably don't die, so it's not the most ridiculous thing to not bother punishing...what video was this anyway? maybe there was some specific circumstance or something

umm one important thing to learn is...i think kk or unknown once called it "aerial dash dancing." probably kk. basically it's where you jump, float back and forth a little, and decide midair whether to early aerial/late aerial/land to grab/etc. ...i'm willing to bet you need more mixups like that. some people really like to shield as soon as jiggs jumps near them.

puff forces the other person into a pseudo-brawl mentality where they have to make more little reads, like calling you on your falling patterns and such. anything predictable you do, they're going to pick up on really fast (unless they suck ). for instance, think about how often this happens: you do one aerial on fox, float back to where you jumped from, and shield, and he grabs you and upthrow upairs you. stuff like that is what gets you killed with jiggs.

 

[KrIsP!]

I was standing behind you yesterday lol. I was creepin' to watch your matches with unknown.

As for using skype..I only really come on SWF when I'm at school on spare. So skype wasn't an option but i' bring up some other stuff next time people are on. Cause no one's on right now.

 

[Tekk]

Cause no one's on right now.

that's pretty harsh man...

 

[KrIsP!]

that was pretty weird. As soon as I post you message me on skype. Good talk nonetheless.

 

[Ripple]

I'm playing puff now, expect me to be awesome

 

[idea]

I was standing behind you yesterday lol. I was creepin' to watch your matches with unknown.

As for using skype..I only really come on SWF when I'm at school on spare. So skype wasn't an option but i' bring up some other stuff next time people are on. Cause no one's on right now.

LOL really? i guess i don't remember which face in my memories matches up to your tag O_O my baaad.

i dunno then, ryan usually does punish me for those things. it IS possible for me to be too far away to shine though...

 

[KrIsP!]

I didn't use my tag...at all. Besides for entering pools. So not your fault really.

I've gotten good advice here anyways, the best of all being try not to recover low.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Too often I try to go for ledge when I can just safely jump back onstage.

Most of the time taking ledge is better for puff, but against marth, ICs and especially luigi i get f****d

 

[idea]

I didn't use my tag...at all. Besides for entering pools. So not your fault really.

I've gotten good advice here anyways, the best of all being try not to recover low.

well tell me who one you are next time

 

[Wake]

Ripple switched to Puff?!?!

 

[KrIsP!]

well tell me who one you are next time

uhh...the guy who opened the bathroom door just as you unlocked it. I think I slept at your house once too back in '09...I think. We're like best friends man. But srsly maybe next time I can make it out to a monthly i'll ask for advice in person. I played with KK but unfortunately he got called for a match just as we started so I didn't get much out of him.

 

[idea]

uhh...the guy who opened the bathroom door just as you unlocked it. I think I slept at your house once too back in '09...we're like best friends man. But srsly maybe next time I can make it out to a monthly i'll ask for advice in person. I played with KK but unfortunately he got called for a match just as we started so I didn't get much out of him.

ohh okay lol.

my guess at this point is that i've met more people through smash than my brain can catalogue, so i just start forgetting who is who, even if i've met them more than once and it would be offensive to forget key details like their name.

 

[KrIsP!]

Nah it's k. Who am I really? I like...go to nothing and when I do there spread out by 2 year long intervals.

 

[Bing]

COME TO THE MAY ONE THEN

caps.

 

[KrIsP!]

i'll come in May. 2014
trollface.jpg
I might have legit family issues in the coming weeks though but I want to get into this and my summer looks free after june.

 

[-LzR-]

Guys, if Sheik is planking a lot to force me to wait or do stuff, can I safely grab the ledge and force her on stage and like rest her or something?

 

[Krynxe]

It's probably possible, but extremely difficult if the sheik player knows what he's doing. (Especially given how slow puff is.)

You'd probably be better off baiting a ledgehop fair with a punish, or something along those lines. THEN you can grab the ledge and rest.

 

[-LzR-]

It's not like they will just fair me out of it since they can do it forever in case they have a lead.

 

[idea]

shouldn't that technically be banned under the vague "no stalling" rule that came up a few pages ago? (or maybe in one of the other threads)

also yeah, i think you can grab the edge, with good timing...poof doesn't come out very soon after up-b. i'm not sure 'cause no one has ever planked me like that. i would wait for one of the up-bs that goes kind of high.

also, theorycrafting, if they are doing nothing but up-b, couldn't you shield facing backward right at the edge, then wd oos and grab the edge? by the time you get there she'll probably have let go of it again.

 

[-LzR-]

Sheiks planking is nowhere near stalling. Its not rising pound. I will try that stuff today though.

 

[FoxLisk]

No it's definitely stalling if you refuse to move from it.

 

[-LzR-]

Well how are you gonna draw the line when it's stalling and when it's waiting for opportunity to gtfo from the ledge?

 

[Tekk]

^If it lasts more than 25 seconds, then it's definitely stalling.

 

[idea]

you could call a TO over to watch your next set before it starts.

 

[Massive]

Well how are you gonna draw the line when it's stalling and when it's waiting for opportunity to gtfo from the ledge?

Walk away from the ledge? If they keep doing it, it's stalling.

There's nothing forcing them to approach you, but honestly I've never seen anyone but really scrubby sheiks even attempt something like this.

You'll probably win the match anyway, but if they persist go ahead and call the TO over and get them DQ'd so nobody else would have to suffer their bull****.

 

[Anand]

Walk away from the ledge? If they keep doing it, it's stalling.

There's nothing forcing them to approach you, but honestly I've never seen anyone but really scrubby sheiks even attempt something like this.

You'll probably win the match anyway, but if they persist go ahead and call the TO over and get them DQ'd so nobody else would have to suffer their bull****.

Massive, are you serious? I think you're forgetting Mew2King, Amsah, and SilentSwag (who got 9th at ROM4!!!!).

 

[Massive]

My comment was directed at excessive ledgestalling, an implication I must not have made very clear.

I have never seen a match where M2K or Amsah chilled on the ledge for an excessive period of time while their opponent was well out of retaliation range on the other side of the screen. I see sheiks ledgestall frequently, but I've only encountered 1 or 2 who I would consider to be doing it excessively.

When I see it, I lower my opinion of them pretty substantially. If I see someone like M2K or Amsah doing it, I will still (at least) call them an *******.

 

[FoxLisk]

My comment was directed at excessive ledgestalling, an implication I must not have made very clear.

I have never seen a match where M2K or Amsah chilled on the ledge for an excessive period of time while their opponent was well out of retaliation range on the other side of the screen. I see sheiks ledgestall frequently, but I've only encountered 1 or 2 who I would consider to be doing it excessively.

When I see it, I lower my opinion of them pretty substantially. If I see someone like M2K or Amsah doing it, I will still (at least) call them an *******.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI_hGcWjTKA&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL6EE5CFA8FDE6C3BC

there's a set where m2k camps eggm pretty hard, to the point where it would have been stalling if eggm hadnt kept running into it, but theyve played a lot and i dont feel like finding it.

anyway point is you're kinda wrong.

 

[crush]

SilentSwag (who got 9th at ROM4!!!!).

lol anand *****

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

lol anand *****

Silentswag *****