M2K stuff about Marth (big update first post)

[Irow]

I was hella thinking that.

So Marth has a shine? Too good.

Emblem, you main Ike right? I would assume Ike has the same problems as Marth when it comes to projectiles correct? Have any of the Ike's found a good way around them?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Jump to airdodge looks good.

Marth can do repeated d-tilts to close distance, since his d-tilt moves him forward.

Roll more.

Shield dash shield dash rinse repeat.

That's all I got really. lol.

 

[Mew2King]

best way around projectiles is to camp in their face.

this applies to every character pretty much but i'm talking about marth and ike when i say this. Ike might even be better off cuz his moves have so much shield knockback.

 

[Irow]

I was thinking a rising airdodge would work.

Marth has pretty good roll, so I think it would be that bad - But apparently Marth's don't use it so much, and get ***** by projectiles.

Hopefully that what we're thinking of really works.

EDIT: Wouldn't Marth's down tilt poke through shields?

So basically when the match starts, we can't let them run away. Marth has pretty high speed, so I think that wouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Mew2King...do you still hate Brawl, because this a lot of knowledge for a game you hate.

lol, Marth has a shine.

 

[Mew2King]

i do not like the game, but i want to help people as much as possible

 

[Meljin]

arrows and dedede front B can't be countered with an ANA or a AFA ? I accidently do this VS. a Pit and this was working for the arrows.
Btw falco's blast can't be countered, he's again the god tier char who needs no mindgame. [/john]

 

[Vaxxaruis]

jw in brawl how would u handle marth dittos??

 

[Mew2King]

i dont know i just know the character well so not much really surprises me at all

nothing particular really

 

[BentoBox]

best way around projectiles is to camp in their face.

this applies to every character pretty much but i'm talking about marth and ike when i say this. Ike might even be better off cuz his moves have so much shield knockback.

Ike would be a lot more vulnerable to Zair spam though. They can chain a Charged Shot right after Zair due to 0lag and followup with a grab/attack in the small timeframe during which you're stunned. =o If you camp your shield they can zair-*>grab.. yadayada. He posted some duels against kal's marth and lost 1-4 (5 games) as kal was doing precisely what you guys suggested; stay close, chopped through missiles with fair/counter... But hyli has new vids waiting to get uploaded and he said that with accurate Zair spam, marth has no means of approaching :O. Look forward to that.

 

[Cookiez]

Mixed reactions about the new Marth then. Hmm I can't wait for Brawl =3.

 

[Mew2King]

ya as i said marth gets camped out too easily, but he also probably wasn't as good of a player

but seriously, marth just seems extremely good at first but then he seems a lot worse later on. My first impression was that he's easily the best in the game, but now I'm not even positive that he's top tier anymore.

 

[VersatileBJN]

M2K and Irow, fair use vs nair use analysis. I know fair is better for comboing. What are some situations in which you prefer nair?

Also, I assume your experience with online has been awful huh? How bad is it? I hope it's decent since a lot of people will be using the 2 online smash leagues to play(brawl rankings and wifi wars)

 

[Irow]

Fair is good as a quick hit, and if your opponent is out of jumps, or you read him well enough, you can get another one in. It is also your main move off the ledge, as a tipped one sends a horizontal angle. It's easily Marth's best move, IMO.

Nair has higher knockback tipped than I think all his aerials. (Although, tipped, all of his aerials are stronger than they probably should have been for a quick character like Marth) What you have to keep in mind, is that if you directly use it out of your short hop, you'll go over peoples head. You really have to time it. A good thing I'm thinking of for uses are nairing so they're off the edge, then fairing them for a kill. Although, I'm pretty sure Nair knocks your opponent diagonally up.

I've seen nairs chain on people after it's knockback has been staled. I've seen fair do it as well, but I'm pretty sure the hitstun is too low, and people would be able to get out of it if they knew how.

 

[Alex Strife]

From what I see Marth can just space with Fair and use that as a spamming move to keep players with projectiles at bay. For me I use that and fast fall into a grab and Fair again.

I like how marth plays in the game but I want to see how hard he would be against other characters.

Marth vs Sonic is hard for me due to sonic's speed

Marth vs everyone else I do well against.

This is from what I see and M2K/EL can explain more. I just feel that marth is up there due to speed and power he has. I really never cared about tier lists cause I just like how a character plays. Though I think Marth can still play well IMO

 

[Mr.C]

Ike would be a lot more vulnerable to Zair spam though. They can chain a Charged Shot right after Zair due to 0lag and followup with a grab/attack in the small timeframe during which you're stunned. =o If you camp your shield they can zair-*>grab.. yadayada. He posted some duels against kal's marth and lost 1-4 (5 games) as kal was doing precisely what you guys suggested; stay close, chopped through missiles with fair/counter... But hyli has new vids waiting to get uploaded and he said that with accurate Zair spam, marth has no means of approaching :O. Look forward to that.

But then you realize Kal is pretty bad..well not being mean but hes still a beginner when it comes to being competitive, Hylian is unexperienced so you kind of can't use these two lol.

 

[Mew2King]

attack power deterioration ***** marth

 

[Magus420]

Just grab and do a bunch of grab hits when you need to get moves back to full strength, since the grab hits are so much faster now you get a lot of them plus the throw.

 

[Mr.C]

attack power deterioration ***** marth

People will just have to get use to saving their killing moves for higher percents. Or learn how many attacks of other aerials, smashes will reset your stale-move negation. Thats what I want to figure out when I get the game.

 

[Alex Strife]

People will just have to get use to saving their killing moves for higher percents. Or learn how many attacks of other aerials, smashes will reset your stale-move negation. Thats what I want to figure out when I get the game.

Agreed will it go by stock or by a length of time since used. That is my goal as well.

I mean for brawl I wanna pick up Marth Fox Sonic Metaknight and D3 just to have a good round base.

 

[icraq]

attack power deterioration ***** marth

yeah, but his FwB is so good at getting it back up.
I alternate move sets when I'm playing. I'll start heavy on the fairs, uairs, utilts, and fsmashes, and when the person dies, I switch to using FwB and grabs, and just less fairs and such until about 60%.
Usually makes it harder to hold a stock lead over people, but it's not too bad.

 

[Magus420]

It only keeps track of the last ~9 attacks, and the least recent ones are affected less than the most recent ones. Even if you spam a kill move, getting one grab in at killable percent with a bunch of grab hits will get it almost to full power again.

 

[BentoBox]

But then you realize Kal is pretty bad..well not being mean but hes still a beginner when it comes to being competitive, Hylian is unexperienced so you kind of can't use these two lol.

Lol. I don't know about that. You go play Hyli!

 

[Mr.C]

Lol. I don't know about that. You go play Hyli!

Lol we live in the same state...I do play them and I can 3 stock both of them.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth is one of the best characters in the game if not the best.

This isn't even debatable.

 

[J.L]

who are Marth's hardest matchups? from what we can see now.

 

[Jem.]

I <3 M2k..

 

[sagemoon]

attack power deterioration ***** marth

while we're on the topic of deterioration... So I have this idea, kinda like charging moves... So basically this idea is spamming one move so all other moves are 100% efficient. An easy way to test this is to spam f-smash like 7 times in training mode then f-smash an opponent and record the knockback/percentage, then do the same thing, except this time hit neutural a or some other move before the f-smash and record the knockback/percentage, make sure the time between the final f-smash and the spammed ones remain the same (it takes time to spam neutral a in between)

also you can see how effective this is by increasing the move other than f-smash spammed by 5 each test.

sooo uhhh good idea? yes/no? please try it or ask questions if you need me to clarify what i mean.

 

[BentoBox]

Uh, spamming Fair or Nair will have no effect on Fsmash's knockback. Only the spammed moves deteriorate, not your whole moveset. @_@

 

[Alex Strife]

How long would it be to recharge the move ?

 

[sagemoon]

Uh, spamming Fair or Nair will have no effect on Fsmash's knockback. Only the spammed moves deteriorate, not your whole moveset. @_@

thats not the point, the move deterioration remembers like 9 moves ish or so i've heard, so lets say my f-smash is basically pointless, is is possible to spam neutral a to make my f-smash 100% efficient again? thats the question.

 

[BentoBox]

Well yeah... If it works for projectiles, why wouldn't it work for A moves?

 

[icraq]

thats not the point, the move deterioration remembers like 9 moves ish or so i've heard, so lets say my f-smash is basically pointless, is is possible to spam neutral a to make my f-smash 100% efficient again? thats the question.

yes
but i'd recommend forward b b b b.
faster, combos, does okay knockback/damage, unlike his neutral a.

four guaranteed hits if the first connects, around 16% total, probably goes down a little bit lower the second time to 14% or so, and then all your other moves are fully recharged.

marth has a great advantage with that.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

yes
but i'd recommend forward b b b b.
faster, combos, does okay knockback/damage, unlike his neutral a.

four guaranteed hits if the first connects, around 16% total, probably goes down a little bit lower the second time to 14% or so, and then all your other moves are fully recharged.

marth has a great advantage with that.

Would it be even better if you did forward b b b down b, because the down b strikes multiple times? Basically you would refresh your fsmash in one forward b combo.

 

[Mew2King]

I would like to say that originally I accidentally typed nair as frame 5 instead of frame 6, it is frame 6.

 

[Hylian]

M2K, have you played any good Samus players yet? Can you find a way around her zair?

 

[Emblem Lord]

WTF is a zair?

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

M2K, have you played any good Samus players yet? Can you find a way around her zair?

Just a quick question: The term "zair" has been popping up a lot here, what does it mean?

 

[darestik]

m2k
prooo

 

[BentoBox]

grapple attack, in the air. All the grapples in brawl have 0 lag upon landing, and Samus' comes out quite fast and as a pretty decent range, and deals damage too.