[M-1/15/19/24/27/32/33/34] FF7: Mafia Remix | Game over, Mafia Wins!

[Nix2100]

Mac has agreed to take all the blame if this gambit fails <_< I made sure of that before i agreed to it.

 

[Omni]

if you're still allowed to communicate with mac tell him i said :<

but uh Nix you're going to have to take Mac's place as my hand holder. are you ok with this because im ok with this

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Quit cherry picking quotes, Omni. I was fine iwth the Chibo lynch all of day 1 because of his reactions to your pressure. Sure, I wasn't the one laying down the pressure, but his whole response was bothering me and I definitely said that, but you chose NOT to quote that. It comes before i put my vote on it, because I don't like to vote on just one reaction, but he kept reacting in a way i didn't perceive as town, so I voted for him.

Kevin literally claimed the character who died pregame. Call it null or whatever you want, I'm gonna vote him and make sure he dies.

Trying to pressure Chaco to do SOMETHING other than promise posts this day. We have a good amount of time to work with so I see no reason to lynch Rockin right this second. My views on Rockin haven't changed. I continued to pressure Rockin as D3 started, I like how you didn't mention that.


I don't really see how I'm not commital. I've constantly stated that I've found Rockin scummy. I constantly stated Chibo was my #1 lynch choice d1. Kevin through town a bone with his claim, otherwise i wouldve continued to push Rockin.

 

[Omni]

you missed my point. also, i didnt cherry pick. that was literally almost half of your posts from the entire game.

1.) you voted for chibo AFTER gheb and i went into him
2.) you went into Kevin AFTER me and frozen and mac pushed him. you had a "waiting for Kevin" line before he voted so even then you couldn't commit to Kevin until it was pretty obvious that he was scum
3.) you instigated the push on Chaco AFTER other players started pushing Chaco as scummy
4.) why would you end your Day 2 with thinking that Rockin is scummy and then simply move into Day 3 ignoring Rockin all together? that doesn't make sense at all even if you wanted more from Rockin.

i say you're non-committal because you do things AFTER other people make the first lunge and commit to certain players. then you jump along. nothing that you've joined has been an "out of the ball park" wagon and all of the wagons you've joined were started by someone not you. it is a very safe play and it is the reason why i find it non-committal.

<3 Teran

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Ok. I stlil don't see how i ignored rockin all together, though.

 

[Omni]

these 4 posts were made in order and consecutively

I'm just...liking Rockin less and less everytime he posts. When i looked through his posts, I don't like that he completely missed Summoner's explanation about the misleading thing. Other than that I've seen Rockin johning about his inactivity and parroting others day 1.

Vote: rockin

this is where this is going to sit.

Want to see Kev respond

I see Rockin as scummy..hence the vote.

...welp

unvote vote: KevinM

Vote Chaco

Whatsup bro

~

Answering Rockin's question from yesterDay. All of day one you were parroting thoughts of others. Omni even called you out on it.

Rockin you said you don't like to vote people who you find legit scummy, so you voted Sue before the day ended, but you didn't really provide reasoning. Also this is the first time this game I've seen you take even a half-***** stance. In a previous post before that you even said that you didn't find anyone 'legit' scummy in your book. How do you feel about that now with the flip? Do you still think Sue is the play for toDay?

so you were sitting on a Rockin lynch
then you were suddenly waiting on a Kev response (after ive been waiting for him to responid for like forever)
then you start Day 3 out of the blue voting Chaco?

do not like

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Because I find one person scummy doesn't mean I can't find a case on someone else interesting as well. Kevin wasn't, admittedly, my first lynch target for D2. However, his claim shot him up to #1, for obvious reasons. I don't see the problem there.

Again, trying to get Chaco to DO something, but I don't know where you're getting that I 'ignored' Rockin at all, considering that whole second part is aimed at Rockin.

 

[Omni]

you're pushing the term "ignored" hard. by ignore i mean going from

"i'm keeping my vote here [Vote Rockin]" to "hey chaco, what's up [Vote Chaco]" where it would've made sense for you to move back onto Rockin and simply question Chaco

also, you were "waiting for a Kevin response" before Kevin claimed.

the problem is that all of your votes and pushes have been opportunistic and safe. that's the part you're being quiet about and i guess not arguign with me but that's my main quarrel with you. that and your weak flimsy connections with the rest of the cast still available

 

[Omni]

beddy bed time

mentos, feel free to chime in

 

[Chaco]

Everytime my life gets hectic and I cant post much or read for lack of time, I get labeled as scum.

V/LA until Monday at earliest, I'll catch up and post on everything people have said and asked me in between this time. However, thats probably going to take a few days of Wordpad typing and saving and picking it back up.

I won't be home at all tomorrow, once I get out of school on Friday I go straight to work, Saturday I have to go record something for Broadcast Class then go to work right after that, Sunday I work all day and will probably sleep once I get in the door. Sorry for being extra busy this week but they doubled my hours. Thats tough when Im a highschool student with college classes. /:

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Omni, this kind of blowing me off response that you kept giving me is what made me so hostile: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11248166&postcount=787

So I dug in and voted so I could finally get something more respectable like this out of you: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11250939&postcount=798

There are a few problems that I have with you actual legit response but I want you to consider a few things before I post that because I don't have time atm to actually continue that discussion.

Think about those stupid mistakes you made. You and I are pretty much in the same situation here; we both wanted to come into D3 thinking each other were obv town, correct?

Now imagine it was ME who came in on D3 and said all the really stupid, blatantly unobservant and careless **** that you spouted. Would you not be frustrated that someone you wanted to hold hands with was now DIRECTLY undermining their protowness and acting like a lazy POS scumbag who doesn't need to pay attention?

How would you feel if that person then decided to literally just blow you off inititially when you called them out for it and just say "lol y u so dumb or scum I'm so obvtown I'm not the play derp" even though there's absolutely no disputing the fact that he made some really dumb and lazy comments?

Just think about it for a second. Imagine if Riddler had done what you just did if he were still alive. Imagine if it was Gheb who came in D3 like that.

****ing recognize how frustrating it is for me to see you do that **** when I'm looking to start solidifying my endgame coalition here.

And then think about how dumb you are being by saying "omg frozen you're so hostile man now you have me thinking you're scum" as if I had like no reason to attack you the way I did. You're making me out to be unreasonable and trying to make something out of nothing when it should be obvious that you are definitely not guilty of nothing. Just because you think your allegedly immaculate track record can justify your bad comments today doesn't at all change the fact that you did, in fact, make really stupid scummy comments.

Unvote: Omni but that doesn't mean I don't want you to keep blowing me off or stop talking with me.

@ Nix: Let's ****ing go bro what's our mason status here?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

EBWOP: That doesn't mean I WANT you to keep blowing me off or stop talking with me.

 

[Nix2100]

Mac made it clear in our logs, if he mis-recruited, we both die.

 

[SummonerAU]

just chucking it out there, if Mentor was a recruiter, would his recruits die after he dies?

if so, Tom could have had just janned the role Chuckie was and they killed Riddler. Don't really care that much about it though. Just treating it as two town deaths.

Wondering how Chaco magically turned up when his name was mentioned

 

[SummonerAU]

if Omni and Frozen are scum together I'm going to **** bricks.

 

[Omni]

^stop saying dumb stuff like that

mac did the same thing to me in D1, Frozen. he admitted his mistake and i was like "oh well since he called himself out on it im more likely to believe it"

anyway, lets not waste time over you being mad at me

do u see where i stand with Jungle?

Mentos was coasting hard, hard body last night without saying anything.

Omis dont get prodded

 

[Omni]

rockin doing a re-read is bs. dont think he's been keeping up with the game. does not need to be alive during lylo.

the question is how do we hang Rockin, Sue, Mentos, and Jungle in one fell swoop.

out of this day i want
- bromis to not get prodded and talk
- sue to talk more about who they think is scum
- less lame comments from Summoner. didnt you have something you wanted to say to me yesterDay? what was that about? maybe i missed it or forgot it.
- chaco to stop being gay

 

[SummonerAU]

You forgot I was like "nah, nevermind" but it was going to be something silly

 

[Omni]

Summoner, are you town? who is scum? why?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

However, I just thought this through thoroughly from not a player standpoint but a mod standpoint. It doesn't make sense from a mod standpoint to have a vig or mafia kill override recruitment, especially when there are other living masons. Why? Because it sends a message of scum to them. From a modding standpoint, the only way this situation makes sense is a save and a mismason, otherwise I'll be mad at Tom for night actions falling in an order that sends a complete false message. Rockin ignoring the recent developments and saying he'll re-read seals the deal

Explain the bold. As thoroughly and clearly as possible. I think I know what you're trying to say but you did a very bad job wording it here. Make it crystal clear.

I believe i said something along the lines of this yesterday (though not nearly as angry sounding) and i agree with it wholeheartedly. Don't like Omni sitting on his high horse because he was on two correct indy lynches. Still think we should keep him around for toDay, obviously, I think we have a good thing in Rockin.

Maybe I'm being dumb, but is there a reason why no one has mentioned SK instead of a vig?I think it's an important thing to look over, since an SK killing Riddler might make more sense than a vig (unless its a dumb vig but you get my point).

I don't think Omni is a play for today but I'm making a big deal out of this stuff because it ABSOLUTELY NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED in or near endgame if Omni is still alive. His high horse attitude pisses me off because he will probably get away with it with certain players dead and will just coast into or through endgame touting this "I'm so obvtown" mantra which would net him a free win in an endgame that he would build for himself if he's scum. That's why I'm trying to keep him down to earth and not let him get away with this baseless "im untouchable" auto-response to anyone and anyone who tries to attack him. I'm setting an example so people don't buy that bull**** at face value later in the game if it comes down to it.

As for the SK thing, I highly doubt that is the case for a few reasons. One, SK's typically need to kill every night. They don't tend to have a choice. So the fact that we only had one kill N1 tells me the only likely killing roles were scum and then a complete mentor and mentee group. Secondly, going along with the knowledge of the mentor/mentee group, think back to the first FFVII game. There were only 2 possible unlimited killers. The scum, and the potential vig that cloud could become. Sephy was only a 1 time kill so that doesn't count. The way I see it, though this game is a remix, I don't see Tom messing with the swingyness of the setup very much, which means that he likely tried to keep the number of potential unlimited killers the same. In this game, that would equate to the two killers being the scum and then the mentor/mentee faction when it is complete (both mentor and mentee alive).

This is also part of the reason I have hard time seeing an unlimited vig in this game.

just chucking it out there, if Mentor was a recruiter, would his recruits die after he dies?

if so, Tom could have had just janned the role Chuckie was and they killed Riddler. Don't really care that much about it though. Just treating it as two town deaths.

Wondering how Chaco magically turned up when his name was mentioned

It's not unreasonable to think that if the mentor died, then his mentee would go with him. However, it's equally reasonable to think that the mentee could go on independently. It really just comes down to how annoying/powerful Tom wanted to make the pair. Generally, the way I envision the mentor/mentee pair, is that the Mentor has two abilities, recruit and order kill. He can only recruit when he lacks a mentee. He can only order a kill when he has a mentee. The mentee always carries out the kill, and the mentee himself has no powers.

However, if Tom wanted to make the pair more powerful, he could give the power to kill to the mentee and only give the mentor the recruit ability. If this is the case, then even with Kevin gone, there is still the potential for the mentee to be alive and well and able to kill, which pretty much makes him an indy SK with the bonus of probably being able to opt not to kill.

However what I don't think is that chuckie was the mentee and was just mechanically killed by Tom. If Tom was going to mechanically kill the mentee as a result of Kevin's death, I imagine he would have done it during the lynch scene. There really isn't any reason to delay that death other than being a troll mod, if the mechanics specify that mentee dies when mentor dies.

So basically, that just suggests that we have a scum jan straight up.

^stop saying dumb stuff like that

mac did the same thing to me in D1, Frozen. he admitted his mistake and i was like "oh well since he called himself out on it im more likely to believe it"

anyway, lets not waste time over you being mad at me

do u see where i stand with Jungle?

Mentos was coasting hard, hard body last night without saying anything.

Omis dont get prodded

I won't waste more time being mad at you but I'm not just gonna let this stuff drop and be immediately forgotten.

Just a few things I wanted to talk about from you last post to me. First of all, I was on Kevin before anyone FYI. I was also attacking him just as much as you were. Surprised that you don't remember Gheb yelling at me for allegedly "defending you" by attacking Kevin in my own way.

Furthermore, you saying that you weren't blatantly misrepresenting things just because you didn't "say anything vague" or "make stuff up" is complete crock. You don't have to do either of those things to misrepresent something, even though they are common ways to do it. You misrepresented you good track record because you're building it up as this amazing game of scumhunting history when it's pretty clear that scum could just as easily done the work on those wagons that you've been doing as town could.

Also your kneejerk reaction to me coming at you for very legit reasons of "omg frozen you're so aggressive <insert reference to DG mafia> kinda thinkin yur scum man" just reeks of a scum reaction immediately trying to undermine an attack based on flimsy meta and appeal to emotion simply because you don't have any legit way to answer the accusations. Your language is also very obviously choosen in a manner designed to make yourself seem like the "good guy" who is really forgiving and doesn't wanna hurt me by coming after me but just has to be at least a little suspicious of me because I'm attacking you. It's just sappy and fake as **** man.

Yes I see where you stand on Jungle and I actually think he'd make a decent play because his flip would be pretty information rich. Gonna have to do some more review of him but I highly doubt anyone will trump Rockin for today's play.

Ok so now with Nix's confirmation that he should have died if Riddler tried to recruit scum, there are two possibilities we have here.

- Rockin is scum and Nix just was protected by someone

- Riddler was killed by someone and the recruit just didn't go off which doesn't give us any info on Rockin

I'm more inclined to believe the former is what happened, but the latter is definitely a significant possibility.

The way I see it, either a vig killed Riddler or potential the possible stray mentee could have done it.

Also the way I see it, if it was a vig, that vig has lost their privacy privileges for both not shooting N1 and for such a godawful moronic shot N2.

What that means is if you are our single digit IQ vig, man the **** up and claim now so we can figure this **** out. If you killed Riddler, you are a **** up and need to come clean so we don't quick lynch based on faulty night info.

I don't care if you're a one shot vig or unlimited. You ****ing suck so claim so we can at least make sure you do something right for one time at least.

 

[Omni]

i disagree with your statements on me obviously but ok, Frozen. if u really want me to go back and forth with you we can but i think it's a waste of time. you keep whining about my attitude but it's the same one i had in DG Mafia and in any game i play. i was town that game. it's not a scumtell nor is it scummy just because it can portrayed as a scumtactic. at least not in my case since i'm consistent with it. but w/e i still think you're town so i dont want to waste time arguign with you. i need you to tell me outside of rockin who needs to die between mentos, jungle, and sue.

from pov i was on Kevin's *** much harder. not to say that you weren't with me but there's no way in hell that i was "joining a wagon" on Kevin.

and the good track record is still good. it's wifom but think good mafia could out indys. good town can out indys. from a mafia standpoint i would do my best keep players like Chibo alive simply because down the road with his playstyle there's no way town would let him live till lylo.whats important is for you establish do you think i'm mafia or do you think i'm town? take a closer look at my scumhunting. do you see me paired with anyone? do i hold weak or shallow connections with some of the remaining casts in the game? look at my play in its entirety and compare it with our list of prospects, dude. it's why i think you're obvtown despite you being down with the Kev wagon with me.

----

didnt mean to make that long. wasnt suppose to be going back and forth.

vig claiming? hrm. im against that. rockin can die with or without the confirmation of a vig. i'd rather lynch Rockin based off his scumminess and psuedo-confirm a vig rather then have a vig claim to justify the Rockin lynch. Rockin lynch is just yummy all around

 

[Sue]

claim: not a Vig/sk/whatever who killed riddler

i think chuckie was town; indy team of mentor/mentee (that could prob recruit) + a scum team (that can prob jan) = enough anti-town, doubt there's more than just a possible sk-variant, and even then meh; so everything points towards chuckie being town

i don't think there is a stray mentee. the 'permanent' mentor & 'permanent' mentee, i could see maybe chibo continuing to live on even if kevin had died. But the whole point of mentor is for it to be a strong one-way relationship with the mentor having a lot of power over the mentee he recruits. tom could have always done something different, but i'm going to say 'no' to lone mentee.

rockin can die today; mentos/summoner also good picks, they're just flipping back and forth based on when they get yelled at or not

frozen's mentor picks were awful yesterday; but mentor is gone and his stances have been much easier to follow today, so i'm fine with him today

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

The problem with your attitude is yes, you carry it when you're town, but it is also a very easy attitude to carry when you're scum playing a very strong game thus far.

Ok well I don't care if you think you were on Kevin "harder" from your PoV. That's debatable and subjective. Point is I was on him first and was on him with significant strength. Thus, you JOINED my wagon. If I wanted to imply you just hopped on and did nothing I'd use the proper term of piggybacked my wagon but you didn't do that, so I didn't say it. I said you did do, and what you did do is join my wagon, end of story.

So basically I don't want to think you are scum, and I really don't particularly think you are atm. However, that just tells me you are either just town or you're just playing a really strong scum game thus far. That's what the little mistakes you made toDay keep making me think. That you're scum and that those are the few and tiny little mistakes that you're making and might be the only ones you will make for awhile.

I have you connected with some people and I know what flips I need to really get my best read of you possible. I'm just hoping I live to see them happen in time.

Why shouldn't the vig claim? If there is one he blows ballsack and as I said should lose privacy priviledges. Here's the scenarios we get if he claims:

- He's a one shot vig and used it already. If this is the case we know if he killed Riddler and we have little to no loss since he's essentially a VT now anyway

- He's unlimited. We find out if he killed riddler and then we can tell him who to kill tonight to get more of the flips that we want to build a better late game. Obviously our vig is clueless by himself so there's no reason to just let him keep doing what he's doing. Sure he becomes a high priority scum target but who cares he's been sucking all game and hell with a potential protective role we got mad night kill WIFOM up in this joint for scum to deal with.

So yeah, instead of again just trying to tell me whats what, why don't you explain your stance pretty please with sugar on top?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

And if it wasn't obvious to anyone, yes, my scenarios above imply that if the vig exists and he is a one shot vig and HASN'T shot yet then he SHOULD NOT claim because he obviously could not have killed Riddler and hasn't necessarily been playing poorly since it's actually reasonable to save your 1 shot vig for late game when you're sure of a scum read instead of just using it to blast a ****ty early game player.

 

[Omni]

since you want to be nitpicky

Unvote

Vote: KevinM

Double smileys? Easiest scum meta in the book.

this was your first vote. joke vote on Kevin.

Thinking Omni is our lynch today.

kevin's second post. first one being, "omni what is your plan for toDay"

Lol @ habit.

well if u don't understand Kevin's antics then ok. figured you would since he's an old head. but listen anyway

the reason why you ignore Kevin us because he's intentionally being helpful. he's prolonging the game and wasting time by purposely omitting necessary info in his posts. he should have explained himself in his post. By not doing so he has pretty much said nothing over the entire course of the game.

Which is why I said not to feed the troll.

if he wants to keep playing like that he'll be lynched eventually.

which is me already putting fire on Kevin's *** telling him he needs to nut up or shut up because he will be lynched for playing baby jesus. you've been V/LA in Japan during this time

If Kevin isn't already laughing at the bold, I'm laughing at it for him. He plays like this all the time yet he's won a long streak of games as scum this way.

Kevin calling Omni the play baby jesus style isn't unexpected, nor scummy in its own right. However the lack of an accompanying vote is.

Half ***** Babyjesus play doesn't fly with me. Vote's gonna stay there for awhile. More power to the KevMo train.

your vote stays parked on Kevin for a reason i would've voted Kevin if it wasn't for the fact that i've been inactive prodding with my votes. regardless, you keep it and commence your early 'this is a good wagon' vote on kevin which btw was a decent wagon but it wasnt going anywhere

Ok so anyways since I don't really think there should be votes on me I'm not going to be commenting on that.

I will however say I like how Gheb is playing.

Still think Omni is the play, the fact of the matter is he really tried hard to defend himself from the fact I thought he should be the lynch today.

Not with facts or anything, or scum hunting but saying NO ONE LISTEN HE'S TROLLING.

Seriously I don't spell things out for people and I don't care, nor should I have too. The game of mafia isn't about long winded paragraphs never has been.

Omni should be the lynch today, his playstyle this game is really scummy. I don't like the way he placed a vote on me as the votes started swinging saying fine with this wagon, but would rather have other wagons.. this one however is appealing too.

Yeah sure it's really appealing when the person who thinks you should be lynched gets a wagon on him. Especially since your entire defense was just LOL ignore troll no suspicions here.

You're playing the pressure inactive game WAY to hard this time and I don't like it.

Omni is our lynch, take your votes off me it's a stupid one.

Also if people lynch me just because "we haven't lynched him in forever" I will go over and stick a magnet on your monitor, because you shouldn't be playing this game.

Kevin's first REAL post in the game. all of his previous posts i find completely null and utter bull. however, this is the first real post where he actually attempts to clarify or justify his vote on me. i then respond so hard and so fast that he uses the "you're being mean" card on me in order to avoid our 1v1.

your small reasoning for wagoning Kevin had no influence on me placing my vote on Kevin. i didn't join your wagon just because you already had a vote on Kevin. you just happened to be parked there and i took it to another level after his crummy post.

so none of that "end of story" nonsense.

-----

and stop hampering on these "small little mistakes". you're literally trying to build a cause on me being scummy based on my Day 3 actions within a 20 minute me rushing before i have to get off a work to post time frame. you're making them seem way bigger than they really are and trying to set me up for the future, but it's going to look lowsy when you're entire case for voting me has been based off 2 or 3 consecutive posts.

----

there is no "problem" with my attitude. get over it. you dislike my style; it's a null-tell. it could be this if i was this and it could be that if i was that. stop focusing on nulls, frozen.

also i just explained why i dont think vig should claim. a lot of assumptions involved. my answer to that again is no

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

> implying that because you mounted a parallel attack on Kevin while I was attacking him means you didn't join the wagon
> implying I didn't mount equally strong attacks on Kevin to the point where Gheb thought I was trying to defend you by attacking Kevin
> implying attacking someone for different reasons than someone else means you didn't join their wagon
> implying you can try to explain away what the definition of joining is

Nice try brah. To bad it doesn't work that way. You joined the KevMo wagon. The wagons I STARTED. I never said you didn't have some of your own reasons nor did I say you just blindly followed anyone and didn't bring anything unique to the table. That's not the point. So yes, if I'm being nit picky you JOINED MY WAGON AND IT IS END OF STORY.

lmao I'm not trying to build a ****ing case on you. I'm pointing out your mistakes so that people remember them and consider them later in the game if and when you are closer to being the play (which could be by virtue of many different things, one of which could be a lylo decision). Go ahead and say I'm trying to make them out to be bigger than they are all you want. To bad it's bull**** because I've explained exactly why every one of your mistakes is bad, stupid, careless and scummy. I hardly see how me saying "Hey everyone Omni said some stupid **** here, don't ****ing forget about it later because it's kind of really dumb and incriminating" is blowing anything out of proportion. I didn't even call you the ****ing play.

You're honestly probably the only player who would call giving someone an IGMEOY blowing something out of proportion.

And if you call me weighing possibilities for the motivations behind your playstyle "focusing on null tells" again you've seriously gone full ******.

You didn't explain **** as to why the vig shouldn't claim. You just said "rockin lynch is still solid without a vig claim". That's an LoA for why the vig SHOULDN'T claim, it's a reason for why the vig doesn't necessarily NEED to claim. I've provided reasons why the vig SHOULD claim, and unless you show what externalities we incur as a result of a vig claim that outweigh those reasons for him claiming, you don't have a justified position.

And saying "there are a lot of assumptions involved" is like the emptiest, most baseless statement of all time.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

EBWOP: That's NOT an LoA for why the vig SHOULDN'T claim, it's a reason for why the vig doesn't necessarily NEED to claim.

 

[Rockin]

Kaaaaaay! Done Re-reading!

I'll be telling of how I feel exactly with all the players

Jungle - Not liking

Jungle has been playing the safe route all since D1. Whenever he chimes in his opinion, it's a pretty soft stance of each topic/scenario that comes up. Whoever he feels is scum is usually the same person who's the safest lynch. He has never really had a hard stance with anyone unless he's following behind someone. Each and every one of his votes is him merely following along so as to blend in and not be the blame for.

Vote Chaco

Whatsup bro

~

Answering Rockin's question from yesterDay. All of day one you were parroting thoughts of others. Omni even called you out on it.

Okay, that's nice and all, but I want YOU to tell ME where I've been
parroting. You say that I'm scummy. Fine. You say that I've been parroting. Fine.

Show me.

And show me where I've been parroting and who.

Omni - Feeling good

Omni has been giving off some town vibes. He's been playing like how I picture town omni to be. I don't think I saw anything really scummy from him.

However, I agree with Frozenflame that he's not obvitown. I don't see it. I see town vibes from him, but they're not obvitown. Still, I would trust him.

I would also advise him to re-looking at some of the people he's 'holding hands' with. Frozen and Nix are fine, but Chaco and Summoner are questionable, cause I havn't seen anything hand deserving from either of them.

"I have no way of proving I'm scum"

slippity slip slip?

It was a really bad typo, Omni XD

Mentos - Worried

I've been doing my best to keeping an eye on mentos. He hasn't done anything scummy, but one of the things I've noticed is that he hasn't taken much of a hard stance. I remember him wanting to lynch off Chaco, but that has suddenly died when D2 came around. Even then, I think I remember him wanting Kevin M lynched.

It's known that when Mentos doesn't take a hard stance as day go by it's that he's scum. Town Mentos starts whooping *** on D2+.

He's neutral to me....slightly leaning scum.

@Rockin: I for some reason can not think of a way to describe why it's an awkward night action order despite having a very clear idea in my head, but honestly in almost every game I've seen with a form of recruitment, the recruitment takes place before the kill(first example to come to mind, Spidey Mafia my mason of Jungle went through prior to his attack on the PGO, which caused me to mismason instead of trying to recruit a dead player and failing.)

That's not too good of an example. Well, he might have the right pattern for how roles activate, but still...I'm going to put that in doubt.

And don't get me started on Omis' game where Jungle was able to recruit twice on N1. You know, where scum Nked Jungle's choice of recruitment and the mod gave him a do over. >>


Sue - Not Liking

Hardly posted any content. Inactive. Hasn't been contributing all that much into the subjects.

Incase someone says something, yes, I am guilty of 1 and part of 3, but it's Wii johns (plus at the time, I hardly knew who I felt was scum). All I've seen from Xiivi was wanting Mentos dead D1. D2 they went with KevinM. I...don't see any town-like qualities from Sue.

@Rockin: Well if you're saying you don't have a defense... then are you saying there isn't anything that's stopping us from lynching you?

Also, you tend to play the exact same way when you are playing as scum... so don't bring up your meta as an excuse like that.

Yes and No

No, I CAN make a defense about the situation, but I'd be arguing against mechanics (or would've been, since Nix cleared that up) and mechanics would usually win in this situation.

Yes, because again, it's mechanics. You really can't win with those unless you either see a result or the person or the one behind the vig shot.

Chaco, Omis, and Summoner Unsure

I don't think there's been a single thing that set off my scumdar from the reread. I also don't know any town-like qualities from him that he's done. It's a bit of a null tell. I'm going neutral leaning slightly town due to meta, but think everyone needs to re-read him.

The same applies to Omis, only I feel this one is slightly leaning on the scum side. He's hardly contributed, and that's the only anti-town thing about him. I'm confused as to why Omni would trust him, cause I don't see why he should be trusted. Someone enlighten me.

I also havn't seen any redeeming qualities from Summoner, and nothing really has ticked me off the wrong way, so he's completely neutral.

frozenflame751 - feeling good

Frozen seems solid this game, even though he seems a bit more pissed off then before. I'm assuming it's the constant frustration from Omni and KevinM. That's...about it, really.

discuss.

 

[Omni]

i still say no to joining your wagon. just because you had a vote parked there didnt mean it was going anywhere nor was my vote on kevin any influence with your sat vote. that's like saying im starting a wagon on somebody, nobody joining or commenting, and then calling that a viable wagon. wagons are usually wagons when people hop on them for the person who started said reason. and im done being polite with you because you're being extremely dramatic and reminding me of metakirby with a slightly dirtier vocabulary

ok @ pointing out my mistakes. and stop calling my responses bull**** becuase none of it is. either you THINK it's bull**** because i'm scum or you think it's legit cuz im town.

it was blown out of proportion because you had the tenacity to, lol, vote me as if i could be the play for the Day. what were you hoping for? a random sudden Omni wagon? were you voting me because you knew i was making the mistake, or were you voting me because you think im scum? and then you remove it after my simple "hey, frozen, chill. it was a mistake" post like it meant something in the first place. thats why i call it being blown out of proportion.

your version of IGMEOY = "OMG, OH EM GEE .JPG, I CANNOT... BELIEVE... WHAT IM SEEING..." maybe if you stopped reading your own post from a teenage high school girl's POV you'll understand that you're being overly dramatic. the adjectives you are using to describe the scenario like "blatantly" and "total" are speaking in absolutes.

possibilities for the motivations behind my playstyle? dude, that possibility exists for EVERY game i play. you can throw this same argument every game and it'll always be null because uh i do it every game.

regarding the vig i've already said i'm against it because of assumptions. it ian't empty and it ain't baseless. it's what i've been saying all game and it's how i play mafia. you push and harp and guess and assume and conclude with flavor a lot but i've made it my forte to take a lot of it as a grain of salt and keep moving forward. i like concentrating on the non-flavor aspect of scumhunting. alot.

- how sure are we that there is a vig?
- if there is a vig, having him claim lets scum know if he's a 1-shot
- if he claims and he's unlimited we dont know wtf mafia has up their sleeve to deal with whatever. im against trying to dictate vig shots with a non-claimed vig. now trying to dictate a claimed vig in a scenario where a doc doesn't seem to exist?

so again no to the claim on the vig. there's too many questions with non-confirmable answers. some of which could benefit scum more than us at the moment.

 

[mentosman8]

Ok, I gotta get to work soon so may not be able to post again till my day off tomorrow, but I have time to clarify what FF asked me to.

As a mod of a game you want to actively avoid influencing the game in any way, which stretches to the night actions. One of a mason's "powers" is death upon a mismason. If you make a kill override that recruitment you can begin to influence the game in a situation like this. In a situation like we have here, this tells the second mason the person they tried to recruit is scum, because they are not a mason and the recruiter died. However by having the recruitment go through before the kill you remove this confusion, because if there's no new mason it was a mismason, if there is it was a kill. As a mod that's exactly what you want, actions that go precisely as expected with no possible mix-ups because otherwise the way the game plays out may be influenced.

 

[Omni]

hm. good read, rockin. ill have to look over it a again but it seems legit. btw, this is why im ok with omis:

Omis
Last Activity: Today 11:37 PM
Current Activity: Viewing Thread [m-1, 14, 28] decisive games mafia - over

obv town omis doing his homework?

take my hand, omis. i can show you the world.

and im not holding hands with Summoner. he's in my can live crew
and Frozen is a jerk so he's not getting my hand either

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

@ Mentos: I don't get your point though. Like, how does a mod choosing to allow an NK to prevent a mismason suggest the mason target was scum? Like if the mod had already decided pre-game that NKs are first on night action priority, then NKing the mason recruiter would just prevent any recruiting action from going through. As such, if the recruiter gets NKed, any remaining masons would not be able to conclude whether or not the target was town or scum, because technically the recruitment attempt never went off. I really have no idea where you are getting the idea that somehow that scenario confirms the recruit target as scum for remaining masons because it definitely does not.

@ Rockin: I like the effort but it's nothing groundbreaking. Definitely better than what I was expecting but it's not really something that's gonna convince me you aren't the play today considering the situation we have. Pretty much unless a vig comes out and claims they killed Riddler you're gonna stay my top pick.

@ Omni: First paragraph is a boatload of awful logic. Your comparison is not valid in the least. Let me spell this out for you.

Player A attacks and votes for player B. Player C also attacks player B but for completely different reasons. Player C joined the Player B wagon STARTED by player A.

That is EXACTLY what happened in our scenario. If you vote for someone, you are starting a wagon on them. That is a fact. Whether or not it is a STRONG, POPULAR, or "VIABLE" wagon are all modifying descriptors that are important yes, but do not change whether or not there was actually a wagon.

I was player A. I started the wagon on player B. You joined that wagon.

Wagons gain strength ALL THE TIME from people joining them for their own unique reasons. You saying that a wagon isn't a wagon if someone joins for not the same reasons as the first voter is like so ignorant I don't even know what to say. Just because someone brings different reasoning to the table doesn't mean a thing when discussing the cold hard fact that that person is voting for the same person as the original voter, and thus, as joined their wagon.

Like I don't know how much simpler I can make it.

/facepalm at you saying my vote was blowing it out of proportion.

I DIRECTLY explained my vote for you in #811. You forget about that already?

You kept blowing me off so I voted you so you'd give me a serious response. You gave it, and I unvoted. How much more transparent could I possibly be with my intentions?

Not once did I call for a wagon on you, not once did I purport you as the play, which makes you trying to ridicule me for allegedly hoping for those things really, really pathetic.

Yes blatantly and total are strong words that assert a strong position. What's your point? I used them accurately and I backed up my claims when I used those words to accuse you. How is being accurate in my descriptions and having the seriousness of my accusations match the material I use to back them up blowing anything out of proportion?

Wtf at the 5th paragraph. Did you seriously just say trying to analyze the motivations behind your playstyle is pointless because you have the same playstyle every game? Lolwut? So you're claiming to be unreadable, is that it Omni? "My playstyle never changes from game to game and neither do my motivations behind how I play therefore I am impervious to motive analysis and unreadable." That's what I'm getting from you here and it made me die on the inside a little.

You saying "I'm against the vig claiming because its based on assumptions" all by itself like you did before IS BASELESS and empty because you don't explain at all wtf those assumptions are or why they are dangerous. It's literally akin to saying "the vig claiming is bad because it's based on some bad stuff." Like wtf does that even mean?

But anyway, now that you actually have your reasons for being opposed, I'll tackle those:

1.) We aren't sure at all. That's the point of doing a mass vig/not vig claim; because we want to find out.
2.) What exactly is the problem with the mafia knowing if there is a one shot vig that has already shot?
3.) An unlimited vig shouldn't claim when that information could help practically confirm someone as scum, just because the scum MIGHT have some power that MIGHT cause the vig to either not be able to function as well? Cool fear mongerin brah. Also, lolwut at "a scenario in which a doc doesn't seem to exist". Where are you getting this? The situation we are in actually SUGGESTS we have some form of protective role alive UNLESS a vig comes out as says he popped Riddler. Yeah Aerith dropped pregame but that doesn't mean we don't have a nurse/potential amnesiac/bodyguard or some other secondary protector. The fact that Riddler is gone after allegedly trying to recruit Rockin and Nix still being alive though definitely suggests we have a protective role of some sort.

But yeah the whole point is a vig claim gives us TONS of info and if we do have a vig he's been full ****** all game so him claiming doesn't hurt us much at all, IF at all.

So yeah, we're seriously lacking good LoAs for no vig claim, so people should really start claiming vig or not vig.

If you haven't figure it out already, I'm not a vig.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Not really

The little Omni vs. Frozen spat just tells me they're going to be pretty sour from one another due to their last game 'Decisive Games: Convention' (or however you spell it) due to inactive tactics or w/e. So yeah, nothing strange about that.

The only thing I thought was weird was when Kevin suddenly said 'Omni should be our lynch,' but then Omni himself said not to feed the troll. So *shrugs*

Everyone else seems to be playing accordingly.

Riddler, Mentos and even myself had commented along the same lines on Omni v Frozen early D1

Kay, was able to get caught up with the game again XD

Chibo, can you play a little more seriously? It doesn't seem like you're scum hunting much. Need to stop skimming, too. >>

Wow, xiivi is probably the most lively DGer I've seen. o.o

Still though, I don't agree with the Mentos lynch. I feel he can be useful if given time (plus I havn't really seen anything scummy from him).

Omni, I agree with Gheb that you havn't really been applying 'pressure' to people. It just seems like you're getting people to be more active, that's all (and when I say pressure, I mean get information you want from them).

I find Frozen's and Kevin's comments to one another interesting.

Sorry for being inactive. My grandmother's computer got the blue screen of death (I...kinda contributed somehow ^^;; ), so it's out of commission. Gonna resort to library computers till probably tomorrow (where my internet would be on and I can use the wii's internet.)

Most of this post is ok. At this point chibo had allready started to play bad, dunno what most lively DRer means, guess that isn't a parrot. Okay with this post even though he seems to either just be agreeing with people (except xiivi i guess)

Okay, internet is on at my house, I'm currently on my Wii internet thingie, and I just listened to Sonic Colors theme music more then 5 times (it's just that awesome to me :D )

Let's do this


Speak to me about it after D2. I don't like holding hands on D1. lol



Again, my grandmother's computer had a blue screen of death two days ago. I was going to make that last contributing post at my grandmother's house, but that's when the problem arose.

I have internet now at my house, so let's see how things look.



Yeah, sorry about that. Sometimes on D1, I don't exactly know how to contribute, so I'm usually quiet. Take Spidey Mafia for example. >>

*ahem*

Chaco, to answer your question, Kevin DOES care about the game. It's just that this is his playstyle/how he plays. Right now, I feel he's just frustrated cause of the case and reasoning of scumminess of his actions. As of yet, I don't see anything scummy of hima and I feel he shouldn't be the play.

HOWEVER, I do find something interesting from both KevinM and Frozen. Neither one is really in support of the other (I mean them buddy buddy). Normally, I see both Frozen and KevinM quickly buddying up so as to team up against others who are possibley mafia. I don't see that this game and this actually a first.

I wish Jungle go into a bit more detail and and tell others how he feels about (fill in current/previous situation/case scenario, reactions, etc.). I feel that all he's done is pop in who he felt was scummy/agreeing with one or two people, and then fading in the background. I want to call it scummy, but JF/Mark has been known to be inactive (which is why I comment him about it during my first post or so).

Xiivi is still neutral to me, and I feel he'll probably remain neutral for quite a while. I never saw him play and some of his latest post shows he's a bit energetic. However, I still don't agree with the case on Mentos mainly cause...well, I don't see nothing truly scummy. Only issue I have with Mentos is him being inactive.

I'm hoping Dr. Riddle be a bit more active (as well as Omis), but I like Dr. Riddle's last post. Omis still needs to step it up cause his post only shows a list of who's scummy and who isn't >>

I'm still in support of a Chibo lynch.

Defends Kevin, null tell now but i don't know how Rockin can say how Kevin feels about the game. Not really an important point now.

I feel like a lot of this post is pressuring inactives, which, I don't know, seemed to be the cool thing to do at the time since we had so many.

it does feel like you repeat ideas. its also a combination of you not being an initiator and asking a lot of questions, but rather you're just mostly reactive so the parrot/echo trait sets itself in

Clearly not the only one to think this D1.

Nah, I'm not down for a Xiivi lynch, Gheb. He's not really scummy (or at least, I havn't seen anything scummy from him thus far). He just posted just a little bit of what he thinks of people and last I remember, he was going after Mentos. I wish he posted a bit more though (same goes for Jungle, and maybe Dr. Riddler)

.....hell, I need to post a bit more. XD

More pressuring inactives. Xiivi and Mentos are the only stances i see from him, and it's to just NOT lynch, not who he wants to lynch :/

Man Rockin, making me go back and find posts.

 

[Omni]

look. we disagree. on a lot of things. but i think our stances are clear. i think you're wrong, off-basis, and dramatic. more importantly im fine with you living.

1.) yea but even tho it's unlikely for their to be an sk role it's not 100% out the way. the point of the claim is to condemn Rockin. before his follow up synposis i'd say i dont care lynch Rockin anyway, but i think i like his above post. a vig claim may be viable now

2.) the mafia knowing that there is a one shot vig who has already shot means that person becomes as useless as a regular townie which means they'll opt to look for other PR's during the night actions. if the vig is unlimited they are still a huge threat to mafia

3.) help me figure this out. in a masonry if the recruiter... recruits mafia everyone dies. it's a passive side effect. are you telling me that the doc has the ability to protect a mason partner from their passive effect of dying? because im under the impression that those sort of protective roles only protect against night actions made aginst them

 

[Omni]

dude if Rockin flips scum Mentos is so dead

 

[Omni]

also sue/xiivi was totally against mentos early d1. summoner and xiivi clashed roughly d1. important to remember.

yea, im just really ready to kill Rockin despite his dec post. im looking through my notes and i constantly have "Rockin needs to die" labeled everywhere

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

1.) Ok

2.) So the problem is that the mafia will know one person who ISN'T a PR? Forgive me for not shedding tears over revealing a VT to the mafia. Sure, their chances of hitting a PR go up ever so slightly, but seriously dude, compared to the info we can get out of the claim, that's a VERY trivial sacrifice. What would be worse is confirming publicly who an active PR is for the mafia, because then obviously they know where they can hit the town hard. But then theres the potential doc wifom that comes with that scenario which is actually helpful to the town which makes that scenario a little less bad.

Point is, compared to the info we can get from a claim (or having everyone claim non vig), this info that we give up to the mafia is really very small.

3.) It all depends on how the mod designs his protective roles. You can make protective roles function ONLY has direct kill attempt stoppers, or you can treat them as temporary invulnerability for a night, or pretty much anything in between (i.e. protection can have any amount of strength and any amount of exceptions based on the mod's discretion). If Tom made his protective roles the more restrictive type, i.e. they only grant protect against direct NK attempts, then no, the Doc would not be able to save Nix from dying because of a linked death effect with his mason leader. However, if Tom worded the doc's or whatever protecting role's power something along the lines of "You will protect X player from death for one night", then technically it would apply to any death effect, including passive ones.

Long story short, it's not impossible for a protective role to protect against a passive death effect. It all just depends on how powerful the mod decided to make his protectors in his game.

 

[Omni]

oh well if i had to guess, since that's what it seems we're doing, i'd rather guess that the doc was limited to only night kill actions which is what i've mostly seen compared to "protects from all death" all encompossing doc power. if ur gonna guess better to take the worse case scenario as the likely scenario to avoid any surprises

 

[Nix2100]

So basically we are back to square one and no idea WHY I am alive and not dead with my buddy mac? I am essentially a VT now so *shrug*

Also...anyone else amused that Rockin claims Riddler's characters adopted daughter? >_> Irony much?

 

[Omni]

didnt notice that, but im not thinking much of it. im sure tom provides safe claims for scum