Lucas' Weekly Matchup Discussion Review - Diddy

[Levitas]

Irsic, lasers don't accomplish their purpose against lucas.

The point of laser camping is to get the opponent to approach at a disadvantage. Lucas doesn't need to approach because falco cannot keep lasering without giving lucas an incentive to stay away.

Other purposes like leading into attacks stay.

 

[Irsic]

Well I know that, but they're still pretty irritating. :[

 

[Blackbelt]

Well I know that, but they're still pretty irritating. :[

Irritating maybe, but the fact is that the best use for them is useless against Lucas, putting Falco is a very uncomfortable position.

 

[themrskills]

A lot of falco's approach options rotate around the laser spamming. When he loses that option, he's really in a tough position. Inversely, lucas's pk fire and thunder can be reflected. This becomes a relatively close-medium range battle, and while falco's jab combo is frustrating, lucas's attacks have better priority and do greater damage with increased knockback. Falco's side smash is the main attack that may have better priority, primarily due to its range. Offstage, lucas has great advantage. Dair can take care off falco's recovery if he's within range, and pkt can interrupt the recovery if the side of the head or the tail is used. I'd say that, ultimately, Lucas has the advantage here.

 

[Levitas]

... magnet doesn't punish laser approaches unless you're willing to take that risk, and usually it's not worth it.

Magnet's for keeping them from camping you and forcing you to approach.

If you let them approach with lasers and try to magnet, all they have to do is not shoot the magnet and it'll punish your strat.

Falco's fsmash has nuts range.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Using PK Freeze will undoubtedly earn you a free round of lasers to the face, but does anyone know how it interacts specifically with Falco's reflector? I ask because the actual reflector is disjointed from Falco's body, so I wonder if it would still hit or not.

 

[Blad01]

Well, Falco can still camp with his shine pretty easily :x

And defense is not the only use for lasers... I helps retreating and attacking. You can't absorb them, or you will take a damage just after...

 

[Levitas]

You can hit falco who's in the middle of his shine with freeze. Fact.

Freeze is only useful on delphino against falco.

Camping w/ the shine is easy enough to get around.

 

[Irsic]

My problem with the lasers is that if you DO try to approach, and you go in for a short hop, you'll normally eat like 2 or 3 falling lasers and then he'll punish you. My problem is that on any map that isn't Battlefield I pretty much don't know how to handle Falco.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

you shouldnt ever HAVE to approach falco

 

[Irsic]

Unless I see some vids of a good Lucas seriously beating down on a good Falco, I personally am going to be thinking of this match up as 60-40, in Falco's favor. I can't get this match up down and would love to be proven wrong. Right now I'm not stating the facts but that's how I feel about it. This all feels like pen&paper stuff, but I just feel out prioritized by Falco in the air, and I feel sluggish and outranged on the ground. The only true advantage is once you get Falco off the stage it's a game of cat & mouse against Falco and Lucas can really hurt his recovery.

 

[Veril]

Well, Falco can still camp with his shine pretty easily :x

And defense is not the only use for lasers... I helps retreating and attacking. You can't absorb them, or you will take a damage just after...

... what?

If you absorb a laser you can cancel the Psi-M. You can actually move around a little bit this way (jump canceled Psi-M into jump...). Its when you try to use Psi-M and there is no laser to absorb that Lucas has trouble.

 

[Blackbelt]

OK Irsic, I sense that you're letting too much personal experience get in the way of the actual data.


Maybe you just suck at playing against Falco.

 

[Levitas]

it is somewhere between 5:5 and 6:4 falco inclusive.

I've only been correcting things I noticed were off, maybe scotu (the falco I play) will provide his input. If not, I will later.

 

[Shinigami Cooper]

Theres a Lucas Community *faints*
Anyway i think the matchup for falco is pretty accurate 50-50. The PSI magnet and Reflector really evens the matchup I think.

 

[Levitas]

welcome to smashboards.

 

[Blackbelt]

Indeed, Welcome.


Enjoy your stay.


And Levitas, I would throughly enjoy hearing the views of you and that Falco you play against.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

Theres a Lucas Community *faints*
Anyway i think the matchup for falco is pretty accurate 50-50. The PSI magnet and Reflector really evens the matchup I think.

omgwtfbbq.....hey welcome to smashboards

 

[dawgbowl]

welcome sir.

55-45 in Falco's favor, it is CLOSE but falco is still at a slight advantage.

 

[Irsic]

OK Irsic, I sense that you're letting too much personal experience get in the way of the actual data.


Maybe you just suck at playing against Falco.

It's true.

I cry at night because of it.

 

[Blackbelt]

If nothing more comes up by tomorrow, I'm moving onto the next character.


And remember, there's still time to submit characters that you wanna see reviewed.

 

[prOAPC]

yoshi
10eggs

 

[Blackbelt]

yoshi
10eggs

Two people have suggested characters before that.



Yoshi was actually one of them, while the other was Diddy Kong.


I'll flip a coin, than do the other one after the winner.


But keep submitting. I have decided that every character will now be by demand, rather than me choosing (which, as we saw, doesn't always end well)

 

[Irsic]

I would like to note that ftilt beats Falco's fsmash? I'm pretty sure about this.

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

If we do Yoshi, I will try to find my post from another matchup thread.
I had bwett1 coach me before a pools match against Furbs (both Yoshi players).

And for the love of crap - I played Le_Thien's Diddy at HOBO11 and got
3 stocked continuously. If anyone has some words of wisdom for that
matchup, PLEASE post here when we do Diddy.

 

[Irsic]

Stay in the air catch bananas.

Learn to catch bananas.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

the key to the match-up against diddy is to stay in the air and if you are CP-ing a stage pick something with lots of short platforms such as norfair. Diddy hates norfair, also try and catch diddy offgaurd by reflecting bananas with fsmash, but dont do it all the time

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

lol so i'm guessing our next character is diddy?

anyway... the falco matchup is 55-45 for falco
for reasons already stated
CG to spike or CG to gatling combo is easy an 60%. we can't make that up fast enough. easy gimp makes the matchup close. magnet lasers; reflects PK fire. falco bair more priority than most of our aerials. our jab is faster than his. he might be lighter than us (don't quote me on that one). that's about really.

- CG to something gives alot of damage we can't make up easily
- Magnet lasers for % and make them think twice about using them
- reflects PK fire so watch out
- gimp with pk thunder. tail stops it. head sends him flying.
- hard to gimp us, but not hard to kill/rack up damage.

 

[Blackbelt]

Well, Yoshi technically won the coin toss, but since people are talking Diddy already, I see no reason to go against their wishes.




Diddy is next.


And I'm placing Falco at 50-50.

 

[Luigi player]

I think it's about even... maybe slightly in Diddys or Lucas' favour. I'm not so sure who has the advantage here...

 

[themrskills]

Well, Yoshi technically won the coin toss, but since people are talking Diddy already, I see no reason to go against their wishes.

Awww, poor Yoshi. He always seems to get neglected in everything. I blame Sakurai.


Anyways, about Diddy. I think this match-up is a fairly difficult one for lucas. Diddy's cursed bananas keep lucas in the air a lot trying to avoid them, and we all know that outside of nair lucas does not excel in the air. Diddy, on the other hand, has fairly decent aerials. If the lucas player does choose to keep the battle grounded, he'll be facing the challenge of having to cope with the slip from the bananas while simultaneously dealing with diddy's awesomely ranged fsmash. Watch out for the dsmash too. Diddy is well known for his ability to pull off lengthy combos that may end in a spike it you get carried off the edge. As for edgeguarding, lucas can easily hit diddy with pkt due to his predictable arc from the barrel cannons. Conversely, diddy's bananas can gimp pkt2 if you are forced into using it. Try to avoid pkt2 at all costs offstage. I'd say this match up is roughly 55-45 diddy's favor. Just barely though.

 

[heytallman]

I play very often with a Diddy player, and he beats me regularly. Bananas are annoying, but they can be gotten around. If the Diddy tries to pick up the bananas with dash attack, dsmash is your best friend. He can gimp you, but you can also gimp him very easily with PK thunder. But Diddy is fast, and has fast moves. I'm going with Diddy's favor in this. I'd say probably about 55-45 Diddy?

 

[prOAPC]

vs diddy, i use Toon Link, the strategy i use, is keep one banana in my hand, and spam B attacks (all of them)
maybe this work with Lucas, spamming pk fire (not sure, i've fought a diddy only once, the video is in YT)

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

I find it very hard to control bananas on the fly, due to the slow nature of Lucas' dash attack. I was thinking maybe grabbing a banana when you can, and either throwing it off the level, or up in the air. The idea of holding onto a banana is too sick though. Seeing as how you can B stick those PK fires.

Change this matchup discussion to "Lucas vs Diddy's bananas"
and I think we can get an accurate picture of how to fight
him. Le Thien is going to eat me alive if I don't figure this
out before OH SNAP. We have NO one in Dallas that plays Diddy.

 

[Levitas]

Nobody plays diddy here, so I'm useless.

 

[heytallman]

It seems like I am one of the only ones with Diddy practice? I play with Fliphop (best Diddy in TX, or so I'd like to believe) on a weekly basis. Try to get the bananas onto random platforms, even though Diddy can still get them back easily, you can try to get a move in while he tries to get them back. Don't try fsmash reflecting the bananas, it won't work too often. Stay back in this matchup, and make use of PK fire. I think you can trip out of PKT2 lol. This matchup is in Diddy's favor, but I don't think it's too much for Lucas to handle. For stages, I would recommend Yoshi's Island, but Lucas players tend to hate that stage too. As I posted before, probably 55-45 in Diddy's favor, or somewhere close to there.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

i usually catch one by airdodge. it's pretty easy once you get the hang of it. popgun = anti-air projectile, so you'll be grounded quite alot. usually diddy tries to trap you, but he needs his bananas. take one and it becomes a fair game. fsmash can make them yours. diddy has a little problem with projectiles so use pk fire when you know it's safe. once you get close to him it's pretty easy from there on out. you have to play one of two ways. 1) defensive, while being smart with you banana catching; pk fire usage; banana usage. or 2) super aggrsive and don't give him time to do much. at the beginning of matches most diddy players pull out bananas. run over as soon as the match starts run over there jump and catch one. z drop it and if they threw a second catch the other one and start from there. gimping is easy. just pk thunder monkeyflip then they'll jump hit them out of that too. then... start another pk thunder to knock diddy off the barrels. i actually kill alot with PK thunder/usmash.
alot of times they'll monkey flip into the usmash while they're recovering, but it doesn't work much in a match. that's when you can start your mindgames with edgeguarding. gimping really should be a breeze. ehh i'm looking at a 55-45 diddy's favor.
his banana game is just too good.

 

[themrskills]

It's looking like 55-45 diddy's favor is almost unanimous.

 

[Blackbelt]

It's looking like 55-45 diddy's favor is almost unanimous.

Accordin to the Lucas mainers, anyway.

 

[themrskills]

Speaking of which, do the diddy mainers know that we are talking about them this week? We should probably post there if not.