Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Now now Bowyer, the purpose of this thread is to educate the masses, not alienate them.
Behave.
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Lucas' Weekly Matchup Discussion Review - Diddy
- Thread starter Levitas
- Start date
Behave.
There have been 2 instances where people have released videos for this match up. one was steeler and the other was Irsic. On both occasions you could clearly see character weaknesses and stregnths. Didnt matter the skill level of the people playing. Obvious weaknesses and obvious stregths were there.
Its been 4-5 pages of back and forth of "well this could beat this, nuh uh cause if you do this then Ill do this" with little to no result. You knw what this threads problem is... All the Lucas players are so adamant about PT being at a disadvantage that if anyone else comes along and says otherwise they get burned at stake.
The solid set in stone answer that your looking for is pretty much wishful thinking. Basically you wont be satisfied till the BEST Lucas vs the BEST PT play offline, on their best day with frame perfect response. Aint gonna happen.
You want my reasoning for agreeing wiht the 60:40 matchup
Squirtle:
50:50 tie
this match could go either way from the get go, squirtle can either dominate with prefect rushdown or lucas could space well using a mix of projectiles and smashes.
K.O potential, its about even in the long run. Lucas can get gimped.. and dnt tell me about he has 3 different ways on getting back on the stage so its impossible because gimps happen.
Lucas on the other hand has strong smashes that if DI'ed incorrectly can lead to a k.o.
Ivysaur:
55:45 in favour of Lucas
Ivysaur can out range lucas and can effectively space lucas using razorleaf, ftilt and bulletseed. Lucas can use his bat to cancel out the razor leaf and close up the space and punish ivysaur for making mistakes.
K.O otential,
its easy to gimp ivysaur I could argue how there are multiple ways to get back on the stage or to cancel out edge hoggers but thats the simple truth.. the is easily gimpable.
On the other hand Lucas is suseptable to an uair or instant tether gimps.
Zard:
65:35 in favor of Lucas
Lucas is faster and can easily juggle zard. Not to mention he has a solution to almost al of zards B moves, you can bat through rocksmash and absorb flamethrower.
However keep in mind that zard still has alot of power and K.O potential, his upsmash comes out fast and can kill lighter characters at a lower percent and fair off the stage wil kill, doesnt matter if you can magnet pull or zap jump. when you are off the stage your in zards domain.
go ahead and disect my post to find whatever small mistakeis in there and lets continue the cycle shall we?
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
@Blackbelt: now now? lol, whatever you say mother, and are you trying to get me to go off on you and this thread? Like seriously, how the **** are you going to educate people using ******** information given to you by a pile of scrubs? This thread is flawed and if you don't watch out, you're going to have a bunch of annoying *** scrubs running around the boards thinking Lucas is the **** or at least better than he really is which is going to make the Lucas boards look pretty **** bad. Even if you don't get the ratios too wrong, your reasons for why they are the way they are are going to be so off and people aren't going to know what the **** to do against other characters. So before you go around saying be nice and ****, you may want to think about having someone do damage control before this **** gets out of hand.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Fair enough.
I can't really argue with that, and I do admit that I wish I could get some sorta proofreader or something for those summaries I post up.
Or maybe just have someone else write them.
Bah.
I can't really argue with that, and I do admit that I wish I could get some sorta proofreader or something for those summaries I post up.
Or maybe just have someone else write them.
Bah.
wait
what just happened
lol
anyway. we are just debating this with what we have to work with. :\ don't really have much of an option when most people here have absolutely zero experience in this matchup, and everyone is a scrub. it's not as if the conclusion can't be modified later on either.
what just happened
lol
anyway. we are just debating this with what we have to work with. :\ don't really have much of an option when most people here have absolutely zero experience in this matchup, and everyone is a scrub. it's not as if the conclusion can't be modified later on either.
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
Try actually reading my posts and try to understand what I'm saying past all the insults and and ****. You guys have a problem, I'll letting you know that, I just have fun while I do it. I go on various character boards and the Lucas boards are just one of those. If you guys started posting overall more intelligently, I would be around less.
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
lol, basically everyone here is a scrub...
i was about to say, these kinds of discussions happen in every matchup that doesn't involve one of the top or high tier characters in the game. mid and low tier boards have to just kinda work it out amongst themselves without a big-name pro to back them up.
bowyer i see what you mean, but how do you propose we "fix" it? get m2k to main lucas? as it is, i think we are on the right track, although i wish people wouldn't come to hasty conclusions. as it is, we don't even have everything out on the table for this matchup.
i do think the biggest obstacle here is that players have preconcieved stereotypes of what the other character can and can't do. videos and matches help alleviate that.
bowyer i see what you mean, but how do you propose we "fix" it? get m2k to main lucas? as it is, i think we are on the right track, although i wish people wouldn't come to hasty conclusions. as it is, we don't even have everything out on the table for this matchup.
i do think the biggest obstacle here is that players have preconcieved stereotypes of what the other character can and can't do. videos and matches help alleviate that.
Levitas
the moon
Logic still works. You don't have to be great to know an opening from a solid defense.
So there's no reason we can't continue with arguments based on logic and facts.
So there's no reason we can't continue with arguments based on logic and facts.
heytallman
CTALL
I say we discuss Lucas vs Barack Obama next.
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
I say we discuss how Dem economics suck, Repub everything else sucks, and Libertarian is the way to go.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Indeed, I am a piss poor player.
I mainly just wanted to play him just to get basic crap down, like what truly outranges what, what can be a decent response to ____, etc. I wrote up something just for his sake. I definitely wasn't playing my best because I was pretty tired, but oh well, I don't think I'd be that much better otherwise.
That you don't, hence why I prefer words over playing, since I'll just let others do the playing.
Alright, 4 matches from me & Steeler36.
Battlefield R1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txnky6dm9oI
Final Destination R2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROCvQjArzEU
Smashville R3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNd8EKx5e5Y
Smashville R4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5l0TDPts9c
I still feel that Ivysaur is the least of my worries. He's easy to gimp, and with jabs and tilts he's easy to control.
On a stage like battlefield I feel as though I have complete control against Charizard, on a slightly bigger stage like Smashville I feel as though I have to be a lot more careful.
Squirtle feels the most even but one screw up and it's over for him, Lucas' attacks are deadly.
Lucas' jab and nAir are extremely vital for this match up. They're fantastic for spacing. Charizard still has a fantastic grab. I need to be more weary of that.
My imput on this match up is running thin, it's all beginning to become a lot of same stuff.
Battlefield R1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txnky6dm9oI
Final Destination R2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROCvQjArzEU
Smashville R3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNd8EKx5e5Y
Smashville R4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5l0TDPts9c
I still feel that Ivysaur is the least of my worries. He's easy to gimp, and with jabs and tilts he's easy to control.
On a stage like battlefield I feel as though I have complete control against Charizard, on a slightly bigger stage like Smashville I feel as though I have to be a lot more careful.
Squirtle feels the most even but one screw up and it's over for him, Lucas' attacks are deadly.
Lucas' jab and nAir are extremely vital for this match up. They're fantastic for spacing. Charizard still has a fantastic grab. I need to be more weary of that.
My imput on this match up is running thin, it's all beginning to become a lot of same stuff.
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
What's up with that third vid?
Actually, what's up with all of them?
Actually, what's up with all of them?
Levitas
the moon
lol, if you still have the source vids, at least the 3rd and 4th vids are really kinda screwed up.
I'm seeing some things typical of online matches that should be dismissed, such as poor DI leading to undeserved KOs and traps that rely on latency/"combos" resultant from poor DI.
These things seem to be working in lucas's favor more often than not, so that should be considered.
Irsic, you have a distinct recovery pattern. I wonder if it would have changed had either of them followed you offstage for any length of time.
I'm seeing some things typical of online matches that should be dismissed, such as poor DI leading to undeserved KOs and traps that rely on latency/"combos" resultant from poor DI.
These things seem to be working in lucas's favor more often than not, so that should be considered.
Irsic, you have a distinct recovery pattern. I wonder if it would have changed had either of them followed you offstage for any length of time.
r3 and r4 have really bad speed problems. 
watching these, i saw a lot of mistakes i made (not spacing properly with squirtle, grabbing at midair with zard, etc) that i'll be able to use against chaos and irsic, if we play again thursday. preferably not at 1 AM.
edit reading levitas's post, maybe part of it was because of latency.
battlefield is definitely bad for zard. in fact, i think all 3 pokes would be better off on another stage, so at least we did make some progress there. otherwise, i think zard does just fine.
ivysaur just came out at high percent and died. lulz. but anyway, ivysaur wants to always be attacking and spacing somehow, although i wasn't able to demonstrate it very well.
watching these, i saw a lot of mistakes i made (not spacing properly with squirtle, grabbing at midair with zard, etc) that i'll be able to use against chaos and irsic, if we play again thursday. preferably not at 1 AM.
edit reading levitas's post, maybe part of it was because of latency.
battlefield is definitely bad for zard. in fact, i think all 3 pokes would be better off on another stage, so at least we did make some progress there. otherwise, i think zard does just fine.
ivysaur just came out at high percent and died. lulz. but anyway, ivysaur wants to always be attacking and spacing somehow, although i wasn't able to demonstrate it very well.
Fixing 3rd and 4th vid right now. What's wrong with the first two?
Okay...the file must be just screwed up because I resynced them and everything, didn't change when uploading.
Anyway, Levitas I guess my recovery is pretty static when I'm not being edgeguarded which some of the time I wasn't. In the first vid I believe I used quite a bit of PK Fire when recovering to stop the edgeguard.
Okay...the file must be just screwed up because I resynced them and everything, didn't change when uploading.
Anyway, Levitas I guess my recovery is pretty static when I'm not being edgeguarded which some of the time I wasn't. In the first vid I believe I used quite a bit of PK Fire when recovering to stop the edgeguard.
i don't like being aggressive off stage when i play online. i only do it with charizard due to his weight and better recovery. ivysaur normally won't be out there anyway and squirtle's aerial di is so sensitive with an average recovery that one mistake will mean death.
Bah. The end of the 4th vid it gets okay. I can't comment on the rest though. The first two vids are fine. 3rd is just screwed.
heh, Lucas can be tricky to edgeguard. If...you screw it up we may make you eat ****. :D
I was making my recoveries far out and when you were Squirtle I was delaying the water gun.
heh, Lucas can be tricky to edgeguard. If...you screw it up we may make you eat ****. :D
I was making my recoveries far out and when you were Squirtle I was delaying the water gun.
ZMan
Smash Master
Bump.
Is there anything more for Lucas v Ivysaur or can we move on?
PS: Blackbelt, start adding CPs and bans in the OP, we'll look cooler.
Is there anything more for Lucas v Ivysaur or can we move on?
PS: Blackbelt, start adding CPs and bans in the OP, we'll look cooler.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Someone can always make a character by character CPing thread. Having to deal with a matchup discussion is hard enough.
Also, if no relevant facts surface by Saturday morning, I'm calling the Ivysaur matchup at 50-50.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
ZMan
Smash Master
chaos and i weren't able to record anything...because affinity is lazy. 
possible vids coming this weekend. i'd rather not do any more wifi matches because it seems to help lucas out more than pt...but i'd be willing to give it one more go if someone really wanted to do some more friendlies.
do you guys know what charizard can do guaranteed out of a ground grab release?
possible vids coming this weekend. i'd rather not do any more wifi matches because it seems to help lucas out more than pt...but i'd be willing to give it one more go if someone really wanted to do some more friendlies.
do you guys know what charizard can do guaranteed out of a ground grab release?
prOAPC
Smash Lord
try to control PK Thunder with lag...chaos and i weren't able to record anything...because affinity is lazy.
possible vids coming this weekend. i'd rather not do any more wifi matches because it seems to help lucas out more than pt...but i'd be willing to give it one more go if someone really wanted to do some more friendlies.
do you guys know what charizard can do guaranteed out of a ground grab release?
i think charizard can hit with dtilt after the release
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
I believe that's only Ness.
Didn't Levitas say earlier that none of the pokemon have grab release things?
Levitas
the moon
No pokemon have grab release chains. I don't really know what they net off of a grab release. It seems reasonable that some of them would at the very least be able to net a tilt from a release.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
It's not that bad...