Lucas' Weekly Matchup Discussion Review - Diddy

[Steeler]

hell yeah niggs it's goin DOWN tomorrow baby. mmmmm mmmmmmmmm.

fun :D

 

[PKNintendo]

hell yeah niggs it's goin DOWN tomorrow baby. mmmmm mmmmmmmmm.

fun :D

O-k-i-e.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

O-k-i-e.

i smell jelousy..dont you steeler?

 

[Steeler]

i smell jelousy..dont you steeler?

smells like jealousy, anger, weakness, and a hint of axe body spray to me.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

smells like jealousy, anger, weakness, and a hint of axe body spray to me.

oh sorry...the axe is me

 

[Steeler]

oh sorry...the axe is me

for some reason, now i'm even more excited for tomorrow

 

[Affinity]

ya dude i was playing like **** on that day =P i could tell you were playing WAY different from how you usually play too...well definately play some more matches tommorow

Its called HDTV delay

I can record and upload more of your guys' matches tomorrow on TV's without delay.

 

[Steeler]

definitely.

 

[ZMan]

I smell a strong amount of Axe JOHN edition in here.

 

[Blackbelt]

I feel the need to bump this up.


And I ask for more good Lucas versus PT videos.


Honestly, due to PT's unique multi character style, video's are much more valuable than when they are in regards to other chracters.

 

[Irsic]

I would have challenged someone and posted video's had I been home this weekend so we can move this **** discussion along....

But I'm not. So here we are still doing PKMTrainer discussion. @_@

 

[Blackbelt]

I would have challenged someone and posted video's had I been home this weekend so we can move this **** discussion along....

But I'm not. So here we are still doing PKMTrainer discussion. @_@

Hey, I honestly expected the PT discussion to take awhile.


I mean, it is essentially 3 matchup discussions in one, not to mention the changing mid battloe part.

 

[Irsic]

I feel like the changing mid battle hurts the trainer more than helps. Right as he's getting into the flow of things he has to go and change pokemon. Probably doesn't hurt them at all though., not an experienced player anyway. I'm going to give my 2 cents without any actual followup because I don't feel like typing an essay right now.

Charizard - 55-45. While Charizard is goofy and big, a good Charizard can really do the damage to Lucas.
Ivysaur - 65-35. Ivysaur is the easiet to deal with of the bunch.
Squirtle - 60-40. He's quick, but he's easy to kill and his odd hitbox makes him easy to get big hits on, I don't know why I but I never actually have trouble hitting the little guy.

All in Lucas' favor. Sorry guys, I just don't find this a challenging matchup.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

mm IMO its:
Charizard: 55/45 for lucas... just dont call charizard "goofy" ¬¬
Ivysaur: 50/50 ivy outranges (without counting proyectiles), and has a very good antiair game, razor leaf cnat be absorbed, and he can : vine whip if lucas uses zap jump and recovers high, razor leaf if lucas uses magent pull, and regualr edgeguarding if lucas uses pk thunder, so she does has an answer to lucas' recovery options
Squirtle: 55/45 for squirtle, hes enough quick to give lucas a lot of trouble, his aerial are less ranged but faster, and forward hydroplaning is something lucas really fears
Steeler, wherent you gonna fight blackbelt yesterday???

 

[Levitas]

...PKTC, you do realize that lucas can start below ivy, only do a zap jump and magnet pull, and end up centered over the stage without ever getting close to within Ivy's range. Magnet pulls off of zap jumps are fast, and razor leafs don't counter them. And then there's always his tether.

 

[Blackbelt]

I updated my opinions of the ratios in the OP.


This matchup is confusing.

 

[Levitas]

I just read the captain falcon thing, and you've got some wrong info there. Nair beats out most of our options, so we can't just ftilt to keep him at bay. Nair > jab jab > grab > followup is the bread and butter of his game, and uairs are how he edgeguards best.

But the main point is we don't flat out outprioritize his approach.

 

[Blackbelt]

I just read the captain falcon thing, and you've got some wrong info there. Nair beats out most of our options, so we can't just ftilt to keep him at bay. Nair > jab jab > grab > followup is the bread and butter of his game, and uairs are how he edgeguards best.

But the main point is we don't flat out outprioritize his approach.

Heck, I'm sure there are a few problems with some of the summaries, and probably a few things didn't get mentioned that should be mentioned.

I admit, I need a proof reader, or someone that can also do summaries.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

Steeler, wherent you gonna fight blackbelt yesterday???

It was actally me he was supposed to fight, but our bi-weekly was really busy so we never had time to get some friendlies recorded.

I do agree that the matchup is closer than everybody is saying that it is. thisis definately not a complete win by lucas, but more of a neutral.

imo that matchup is exactly as pktrainercris said:
charizard 55:45 lucas' favor
ivysaur 50:50 lucas' favor
squirtle 55:45 squirtle's favor

 

[Blackbelt]

It was actally me he was supposed to fight, but our bi-weekly was really busy so we never had time to get some friendlies recorded.

I do agree that the matchup is closer than everybody is saying that it is. thisis definately not a complete win by lucas, but more of a neutral.

imo that matchup is exactly as pktrainercris said:
charizard 55:45 lucas' favor
ivysaur 50:50 lucas' favor
squirtle 55:45 squirtle's favor

Why do say Lucas' Favor after 50:50?



But yeah, i find it hard to argue with this.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

Why do say Lucas' Favor after 50:50?



But yeah, i find it hard to argue with this.

well DUHHH!.......typing error XD

 

[Steeler]

whenever we record more matches, i'll try to focus on just one pokemon per match, so it'll be easier to analyze.

 

[Blackbelt]

whenever we record more matches, i'll try to focus on just one pokemon per match, so it'll be easier to analyze.

No. It's important to see the 3 as a team.

 

[Steeler]

that's true as well, but there's two parts to this. as individuals and as a team. it's hard to analyze ivysaur when i only use him for...like 15 seconds in the first vid.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

ya...not many pt's ive seen use all three of the pokemon equally...most have a favorite that they use all the time, and usualy only switch when the pokemon gets tired.

I personally think that fighting against each pokemon for as long as possible rather than randomly switching during the fight would benefit the mtchup discussion more. That would give use more to examine against each pokemon.

 

[Steeler]

well, both things benefit in different ways. its important to analyze all three characters separately, and to do so, the vids need to showcase each pokemon for an extensive amount of time. however, that's not how pts will play in real matches...so the teamwork aspect also has to be looked at.

also, i think ivysaur has an advantage, just because razor leaf is more spammable than pk fire and lucas doesn't have a very good approach. so ivysaur can wall lucas well with bair, ftilt, dtilt, vine whip, and grabs.

...although you may not necessarily see it in my vids since my ivysaur is the worst of the bunch.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

i also seem to have trouble getting close to ivysaur. i might agree with steeler and say that one is 60:40. only way it could be neutral is due to how ridiculously easy it is to edguard with PKT.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

I also think ivys antiaerial and antiapproach game can give her the upper hand
anyone disagree??

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

well I think that lucas doesnt have to approach, but the range is definately a problem for lucas

 

[Levitas]

I seriously don't think that ivy's anti air game is a problem for lucas, and I don't think Ivy has the advantage.

 

[heytallman]

I seriously don't think that ivy's anti air game is a problem for lucas, and I don't think Ivy has the advantage.

I agree with this statement.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

I haven't had a problem with Ivy before... If she (I still don't get how it's a she) is close, I usually just use some quick aerials to hit Ivysaur. If Ivy is far, I'll just PK freeze or PK fire to stop approaches. I always avoid going above Ivysaur so I don't have to face bullet seed and Ivy's upsmash...

 

[Blackbelt]

ok, so we obviously still need to discuss Ivysaur.


But can we, at the very least, agree on:


Squirtle 55, Lucas 45


Charizard 45, Lucas 55



Can we agree on this?

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

ok, so we obviously still need to discuss Ivysaur.


But can we, at the very least, agree on:


Squirtle 55, Lucas 45


Charizard 45, Lucas 55



Can we agree on this?

agreed

10pokemans

 

[Levitas]

I have no problem with those numbers

 

[S.D]

Ivysaurs bair, when properly spaced, is a real problem for an approaching lucas.

I thought Charizard could release grab Lucas almost as effectively as Marth? Although I suppose this is an issue in most of Lucas' matchups, even with the extra smash DI you face a free smash *sigh*

 

[Levitas]

When Ivysaur is bairing, lucas can sit back until ivysaur wants to razor leaf again, at which point lucas can reflect them or approach through them.

Charizard could until lucas realized that it didn't combo to a tipper dsmash and he could escape the regrab.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

When Ivysaur is bairing, lucas can sit back until ivysaur wants to razor leaf again, at which point lucas can reflect them or approach through them.

ya the only time i really approach ivysaur is when i reflect a razor leaf. Either ivy has to shield it or take the hit (thats if the razor leaf is reflected directy at them) so its a perfect time to run in

 

[Irsic]

It's fairly easy to reflect too. Ivysaur has a problem with Lucas' tilts. I may be able to play someone in a little bit, if any trainers are up to it.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

So ....lucas is outranged and is hard for him to get close to ivy and start hurting her (my ivy is a girl ), ivys anti air game does hurt lucas from my experience
I think the debate here is... does lucas have to aproach???