Blackbelt
Smash Lord
I put a thread informing them of this, per regulations.
It's been threre since yesterday.
Edit: I bumped the thread.
I will give them about, say, 15 hours to respond.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Lucas' Weekly Matchup Discussion Review - Diddy
- Thread starter Levitas
- Start date
It's been threre since yesterday.
Edit: I bumped the thread.
I will give them about, say, 15 hours to respond.
Saki Zatoichi
Smash Ace
9001:9000 in Diddy's favor. 
Player-1
Smash Legend
I'd say 55:45 in daiddy's favor, and we can even go 60:40. Peanuts and bananas **** lucas's up b, but a lot of Lucas players know how to avoid it, but, most likely, you will have to use it quite a few times during the match. Lucas has his Nair and thats about it for air game which gives him a big disadvantage. Dair works to with lucas though. Lucas can use his pk fire to to put a bump in his momentum though and can keep diddy away from his bananas sometimes. Doesn't pk fire collide with bananas and negate eachother though?
Ballistaboy
Smash Journeyman
IF Lucas can manage to stop the banana game and slow momentum for Diddy they will have an easier time with this match. Holding onto AND using the bananas against Diddy are a must to win. His bair is quick and his fair is powerful and lasts longer. Dair spikes and Uair combos and kills pretty easily. This match would be better played carefully in the air.
For Lucas u will need to gimp Diddy Kong at lower percents and stop his momentum with Pk Fire.
I would say 60-40 because nair can pick bananas up pretty laglessly in the air, punish air dodges and spot dodges.
I know dair combos into fsmash sometimes for a fast ko.
But Diddy has banana combos and great edgeguarding with peanuts, bananas, and 3 different spikes
For Lucas u will need to gimp Diddy Kong at lower percents and stop his momentum with Pk Fire.
I would say 60-40 because nair can pick bananas up pretty laglessly in the air, punish air dodges and spot dodges.
I know dair combos into fsmash sometimes for a fast ko.
But Diddy has banana combos and great edgeguarding with peanuts, bananas, and 3 different spikes
Noraa
Smash Lord
60-40 diddys favor.
This is a match up you have to learn on your own to get a feel for.
This is a match up you have to learn on your own to get a feel for.
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
i hate discussing diddy and olimar. it's really an awkward matchup to discuss for like any character.
Noraa
Smash Lord
vs olimar....its 50-50
thats a good match up to me
thats a good match up to me
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
i know the matchup well. i'm just saying they are weird chars that gameplay depends on banana/pikmin. that's all.
back on topic though.
we need either 55-45 or 60-40. diddy doesn't have that much of an advantage over lucas. just with the multiple ways he can take control of his banana game and gimp him. i don't have THAT much diddy practice, but i do have some.
back on topic though.
we need either 55-45 or 60-40. diddy doesn't have that much of an advantage over lucas. just with the multiple ways he can take control of his banana game and gimp him. i don't have THAT much diddy practice, but i do have some.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Please, don't start talking about Olimar. You know what happened last time.
And yeah, I say 55-45.
And yeah, I say 55-45.
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
lol. sorry bout that. yup i would go with 55-45
55-45 sounds reasonable. Diddy can play his game and has slight air priority over Lucas, but Lucas' dair can **** diddy quite a bit.
A big problem Diddy's have had against me was actually getting the KO. A couple Diddy's i've faced though were completely out of my league and just took a crap on me. (alpha zealot) My experience is mildly limited. Had I been prepared I feel as though Diddy only takes a small advantage.
A big problem Diddy's have had against me was actually getting the KO. A couple Diddy's i've faced though were completely out of my league and just took a crap on me. (alpha zealot) My experience is mildly limited. Had I been prepared I feel as though Diddy only takes a small advantage.
Nitrix
Smash Ace
I would agree. Diddy has 3 spikes to take advantage of Lucas's bad recovery game and can give Lucas a very hard time on the ground. Lucas's PK-Fire can be mildly annoying, but Diddy can avoid it and punish Lucas fairly easily. Lucas can try to land a smash, but chances are that Diddy will be very hard to punish. Diddy out-prioritizes him in the air as well.
I disagree.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
The fact you say Lucas has a bad recovery game shows you have very little Lucas experience.
heytallman
CTALL
Lucas' recovery isn't "bad" by any means. He has four options when recovering, each situational. Were you taking zap jumping and the magnet pull into consideration, or just PKT2?
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Honestly, no argument has come up to make this anything but 45-55.
I'll be moving onto Yoshi in the morning.
I'll be moving onto Yoshi in the morning.
PhoenixAlpha
Smash Journeyman
I only need PKT1 to recover.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Ok, moving onto Yoshi.
Ands I have no idea who to do next, so PM those requests people.
Ands I have no idea who to do next, so PM those requests people.
ParanoidDrone
Smash Master
I've only ever fought CPU Yoshis, but their eggs are surprisingly hard to dodge. They can take all sorts of weird arcs.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Yoshi eggs are slow enough to FSmash back at em.
Snowstalker
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2008
- Messages
- 813
We haven't discussed Lucas much in our matchup thread, but we have him as 6:4 our favor. That could change, though.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Yeah, I know.
I (personally) agree with that score, though whether or not other (more skilled) players also agree with that remains to be seen.
Dxt XXII
Smash Journeyman
The egg roll can be really annoying, but can be stopped with dair or Pkf. Yoshi's recovery is easy to gimp, but he beats Lucas in the air.
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
Have you ever gimped a human Yoshi (not some random casual).
ZMan
Smash Master
Yo Blackbelt just do ROB next so that we have all the top tier covered.
As for Yoshi, all I know is that he can grab release Lucas. This is a jump release but it's still dangerous but platforms hinder this process. I don't think he can spike you out of the grab release.
Their boards says 40-60 in their favor, can say I agree or disagree but that's what they say.
As for Yoshi, all I know is that he can grab release Lucas. This is a jump release but it's still dangerous but platforms hinder this process. I don't think he can spike you out of the grab release.
Their boards says 40-60 in their favor, can say I agree or disagree but that's what they say.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
If you disagree, say so.
If you agree, say so.
And yeah, we can escape the Grab release to Dair.
And sure, next is ROB.
ZMan
Smash Master
Personally I agree with that score cause they probably know what they're talking about.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Yeah.
Unlike most boards, the Yoshis actually take the low tiers as seriously as the top tiers.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
How do eggs gimp Lucas easily, and what is bait?
Mmac
Smash Lord
While Yoshi's Recovery is much harder to intercept than you might thing, I think Lucas has a much easier time compared to the majority of the cast due to PK Thunder Pressuring and Proper Usmash Camping.
You have to be very careful approaching and using Laggy attacks as they can leave you open to grabs, which can lead into some rather mean stuff. While it's been proved that Yoshi can't Spike Lucas on release, It still put you in a bad position, and getting hit out of your double jump can be very disastrous. He has a free Usmash, Rising Hit DownB, or Dash Jab combo on release, so every grab is about roughly 15-20% gone, and it's pretty much death if you get grabbed about +100.
I think he means to use Eggs to either Cancel the Double Jump, or forcing an Airdodge to punish the aftermath
heytallman
CTALL
I personally disagree with the 6:4 in Yoshi's favor. I play often with a Yoshi main who places rather decently in tournaments, and we tend to go about even most of the time. Eggs are easy to fsmash back, but also easy for the Yoshi to dodge. But still, it's an easy 12% if it hits (the explosion of the egg in the air seems to hit more than anything). As for the grab release, as it was said before, it can be stopped by platforms such as on BF or Stadium 1. The chaingrab doesn't really do much damage (when compared to other chaingrabs i.e. Falco or Marth), and can only be done so many times, as you always jump out of it. The only thing I would watch for is grab release to upsmash at high percents. PKT1 is good to hit Yoshi during recovery, but the super armor tends to let him get back to the stage most of the time. Also, Yoshi's pivot grab is pretty good. Dsmash punishes eggroll quite well, and upsmash can be good against downB (on the rare occasion that they actually use it, they use it to kill sometimes), but only if you can time it PERFECTLY. I've never had TOO many problems with this matchup, and I'd put it at 55:45 Yoshi AT THE MOST.
And to answer your question, ChronoPenguin, I have, in fact, gimped a human Yoshi. Spiked him during the first 3 frames or so of his double jump, before he got super armor. It was glorious.
And to answer your question, ChronoPenguin, I have, in fact, gimped a human Yoshi. Spiked him during the first 3 frames or so of his double jump, before he got super armor. It was glorious.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Well, this is a pretty open and shut matchup, really.You guys are already done? I just got here...
While Yoshi's Recovery is much harder to intercept than you might thing, I think Lucas has a much easier time compared to the majority of the cast due to PK Thunder Pressuring and Proper Usmash Camping.
You have to be very careful approaching and using Laggy attacks as they can leave you open to grabs, which can lead into some rather mean stuff. While it's been proved that Yoshi can't Spike Lucas on release, It still put you in a bad position, and getting hit out of your double jump can be very disastrous. He has a free Usmash, Rising Hit DownB, or Dash Jab combo on release, so every grab is about roughly 15-20% gone, and it's pretty much death if you get grabbed about +100.
I think he means to use Eggs to either Cancel the Double Jump, or forcing an Airdodge to punish the aftermath
Honestly, I see Yoshi as the most difficult matchup Lucas has in the low tier.
Noraa
Smash Lord
Yeah its yoshi 60:40 because of the great grab release game.
Iv also seen eggs eat pkt soo, yeah that sucks lol.
But pkf does help alot and the eggs can be reflected easly.
Iv also seen eggs eat pkt soo, yeah that sucks lol.
But pkf does help alot and the eggs can be reflected easly.
Mmac
Smash Lord
I disagree. Depending on the range, By the time the Egg reaches you, Yoshi should have control. If he runs right away, he can go straight underneath the reflected egg, and punish you with a Dash Attack or Grab
I said this a thousand times, and it seems like nobody catches on. Yoshi's Chaingrab isn't about damage, but rather Positioning and Control. With so many options from release, the combos he has SHOULD be his damaging outputs. it sounds like you never experienced them.
While the fact that PS1's Platforms are incredibly thin, having Yoshi underneath you is a very terrible spot you want to be, as you'll be under constant attack from Uair's and Usmashes. Plus even if you shield his attacks, if he knocks you off the platform in shield stun, that's a free Fsmash or Rising Hit DownB
And this is how I can tell you haven't played a "Good" Yoshi, when he relys on Double Jump Armour for his recovery. This is the number one thing which separates Good Yoshi's, from Bad Yoshi's. Good Yoshi's Airdodge during their Double Jump, because thats what ACTUALLY makes it ungimpable. Infact if you Airdodge as soon as you do your Double Jump, the invincibility from the Airdodge lasts the same amount of time as his DJ Armour. The Armour is just pointless, and really it's just there for insurance.
Oh boy
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
Jiggs is probably a worse matchup.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
I told you before, we would discuss that later.
prOAPC
Smash Lord
i have A LOT of experience vs Yoshi (only one, but a really good one lol).
there are few things that you need to know about yoshi:
- egg roll isn't that bad, shield it and then fsmash to the other side
- he's hard to gimp, use PK Freeze to force an airdodge, then punish, or use PK Thunder to get some damage, but cancel it fast hitting yourself or with the stage. PKT will stop him at about 80%
- he can gimp Lucas, so use all the moves you have to recover (i've been thinking and i need to work in this, specially vs MK)
- if you see a downB coming, move a little to the side and use downB and the hit with it (don't worry, lucas changes side automatically, you get a free hit and recover some %). You can also use Fsmash and reflect the stars. Usmash may work, but it's situational.
- space! Yoshi has hard time vs the pk fire, pivot grab makes his bair a bad approach (i'm loving it), his jab combo is good, it colides with yours, so this time is not that good for spacing this time, i prefer ftitl.
- talking about the grab release, rarely i get a grounded release (i don't know how) i can stop the chain with jabs. While in the air, don't try to jump, you'll lose your second jump, what you have to do is try to nair, if Yoshi is a little slow, you can use the nair, and when you cancel it, yoshi can't grab you. When you are near the edge, prepare your DI for the usmash, or if he throws you off stage, zap jump as soon as you can. Something strange his grab, is that he can't grab you while using the fsmash, i did that a couple of times yesterday, i charge the fsmash far away, he tried to grab me, but he missed (he had proper space for the grab), and i could hit him (there's video).
- i prefer dair more than nair in this match up, a simple nair can stop your cancelled nair combos :S (maybe i'm doing something wrong).
i'll say 55-45 Yoshi, i win more fight vs him because i'm in overall a better player, but i always have a hard time
there are few things that you need to know about yoshi:
- egg roll isn't that bad, shield it and then fsmash to the other side
- he's hard to gimp, use PK Freeze to force an airdodge, then punish, or use PK Thunder to get some damage, but cancel it fast hitting yourself or with the stage. PKT will stop him at about 80%
- he can gimp Lucas, so use all the moves you have to recover (i've been thinking and i need to work in this, specially vs MK)
- if you see a downB coming, move a little to the side and use downB and the hit with it (don't worry, lucas changes side automatically, you get a free hit and recover some %). You can also use Fsmash and reflect the stars. Usmash may work, but it's situational.
- space! Yoshi has hard time vs the pk fire, pivot grab makes his bair a bad approach (i'm loving it), his jab combo is good, it colides with yours, so this time is not that good for spacing this time, i prefer ftitl.
- talking about the grab release, rarely i get a grounded release (i don't know how) i can stop the chain with jabs. While in the air, don't try to jump, you'll lose your second jump, what you have to do is try to nair, if Yoshi is a little slow, you can use the nair, and when you cancel it, yoshi can't grab you. When you are near the edge, prepare your DI for the usmash, or if he throws you off stage, zap jump as soon as you can. Something strange his grab, is that he can't grab you while using the fsmash, i did that a couple of times yesterday, i charge the fsmash far away, he tried to grab me, but he missed (he had proper space for the grab), and i could hit him (there's video).
- i prefer dair more than nair in this match up, a simple nair can stop your cancelled nair combos :S (maybe i'm doing something wrong).
i'll say 55-45 Yoshi, i win more fight vs him because i'm in overall a better player, but i always have a hard time
ChaosTheoryX
Smash Lord
Lucas should only be reflecting the eggs of yoshi is at a distance of about half of FD or more so that yoshi can't just dash at him during the few frames of lag at the end of foward smash
his jab doesnt just cancel out lucas' jab but also lucas' foward smash
down air is definately a better choice for this matchup as yoshi can easily punish neutral air because of its short range
I would say this matchup is either 55-45 or maybe even 60-40 (i dont think its this bad) in yoshi' favor
Poltergust
Smash Master
Um, why would we be using Egg Roll in the first place? Using it against Lucas is a bad idea since PK Fire can go through it.
Yoshi should already be recovering by double jumping and air-dodging, so using PK Freeze is pointless. Lucas should really only edge-guard with PK Thunder, which I do admit can cause some problems while recovering.
Yoshi's eggs work wonders on Lucas' recovery. You have to be careful not to get gimped by him.
Are you sure that you fought a good Yoshi? Yes, Yoshi Bomb is punishable when used in the air, but why would the Yoshi player do that in the first place outside of surprise attacks or grabbing the ledge? It's much harder to punish a grounded one.
Yep, PK Fire is annoying, but not so much that we still can't approach. But how can Lucas' pivot-grab, however quick it may be, stop Yoshi while he is in the air? Yoshi can Lucas go pretty even when they are close to each other, though.
No one knows how to get a grounded grab release on Yoshi (and hopefully no one will, mwahahaha), but it's impossible to stop the chain-grab. That's why it's a chain-grab. And it also leads to many follow-ups on Lucas, too. Also, what do you mean that Yoshi can't grab you while performing your f-smash? Can you link to the video?
No, Yoshi's n-air really is that awesome.
Although, Lucas' d-air and n-air can be stopped by Yoshi's up-smash...
I personally think it's 6-4 Yoshi, but good luck with the match-up.